Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 19, 2017 12:38:59 GMT -5
Looks like it's going to make under 100 million dollars this weekend which is a MASSIVE drop from BVS and Suicide Squads openings. Think about that. Seems insane to even consider that possibility but it's happening. It's opening under MOS and WW. That means WB's biggest most expensive superhero film had the weakest opening of the DCEU.
Should they have pushed JL back to March to give Whedon more time? Would it have made enough difference with the quality of the film and ANY difference with the box office?
It seems like by trying to please everyone they may have done something that left no one totally happy. Maybe the fans of Snyders films stayed away and the haters of Snyders films gave up after being burned by MOS and BVS. That's only a small portion of the audience though. That doesn't account for the average movie goers who don't follow the behind the scenes goings on of these things.
WB has put themselves in a a bad and bizzare situation that I don't quite think I've ever seen before. They've got a Batman who wants out but are limited by the nature of this version of the character as far as replacing him.
Wonder Woman was a massive hit so they can't just not go forward with that
Aquaman is in the can so they have to release it. Will this affect that film?
Shazam is well into pre production and shooting begins in a few months. Do they go forward or pull the plug like they did with Superman Lives?
Do they make Flashpoint? What if that’s met with the same reception as JL and audiences don't show up? Something like that would cost big money if they do it even close to the scale of the comic book story.
Lots of questions.
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atp
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Post by atp on Nov 19, 2017 16:01:47 GMT -5
I want a reboot of Superman.
New actors. But with John Williams music back.
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crown
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Post by crown on Nov 19, 2017 17:36:27 GMT -5
I want a reboot of Superman. New actors. But with John Williams music back. Maybe you're on to something! And STM and SII can be treated like a "vague history" in this reboot?  ? |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 19, 2017 18:15:50 GMT -5
I want a reboot of Superman. New actors. But with John Williams music back. They did have some of the Williams theme in JL. Worked pretty well actually. I don't know if you'll see a reboot with that music but otherwise you may get your wish. Who knows when but I could see them rebooting in a few years. I think there's a real chance this is the last time we see Cavill as Superman. Seems like it's kinda up in the air. They made him the kind of Superman some fans have been asking for and the movie is failing. His solo movies underperformed. Not sure if they see anything else they can do with this version of Superman. |
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Post by booshman on Nov 19, 2017 20:11:02 GMT -5
I've not seen JL yet, but I say reboot. I think they need to just stop for a bit, no Batman or Superman movies for a few years. I can't see them doing this, but they really need to have people give a damn about these characters. These movies come out with such frequency it's not an event any more. I would like them to recast everyone, so get a clean break form this universe they have now,which I can't see happening while Wonder Woman looks like a good earner for them.
I would prefer a Netflix run. Maybe an 8 episode series, where different characters are introduced one by one in their standalone episodes, then a three part story at the end where they all come together. Alternatively they could just do a Superman show with an ongoing narrative, or a show with a different version of Superman in every episode. One set in the 40's, maybe a "Speeding Bullets" else-world episode, Red Son, etc. They could do a lot that has never been seen in live action before, and would probably never be used for a full movie. Imagine Routh coming back for a one off, an episode set post Smallville with Welling. Jon Hamm as the Alex Ross style Superman. So many possibilities and they are wasting their time on the big screen with this crap.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 19, 2017 21:09:06 GMT -5
That's how I feel too. They should eventually reboot but not do anything for at least five or ten years before then. Take a break and wait until it's fresh again. They won't do that though (the waiting not the reboot).
In this era of a superhero movie arms race between Sony Fox WB and Disney Disney is the only one that's not only winning but not having any of these movies fail in such explosive fashion. I think with some of the crazy stuff Fox and Sony are trying to make they're going to have some serious flops in the next few years.
I think they should do nothing with any new DC films and just let Wonder Woman and Aquaman run their course. Maybe let Matt Reeves make his Batman movie and see how that goes. Everything else should take a break. Let anticipation for these characters grow and let enough time pass to let the bad taste of the DCEU go away.
The failure of a big comic book movie hasn't given me a sinking feeling like this since Batman & Robin and we all know how that played out. Almost fitting since this is the 20th anniversary of that film.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 20, 2017 13:49:23 GMT -5
That's how I feel too. They should eventually reboot but not do anything for at least five or ten years before then. Take a break and wait until it's fresh again. They won't do that though (the waiting not the reboot). In this era of a superhero movie arms race between Sony Fox WB and Disney Disney is the only one that's not only winning but not having any of these movies fail in such explosive fashion. I think with some of the crazy stuff Fox and Sony are trying to make they're going to have some serious flops in the next few years. I think they should do nothing with any new DC films and just let Wonder Woman and Aquaman run their course. Maybe let Matt Reeves make his Batman movie and see how that goes. Everything else should take a break. Let anticipation for these characters grow and let enough time pass to let the bad taste of the DCEU go away. The failure of a big comic book movie hasn't given me a sinking feeling like this since Batman & Robin and we all know how that played out. Almost fitting since this is the 20th anniversary of that film. I think it's not impossible with enough box office failures, for stockholders to do an about-turn and say 'ok, no more superheroes for awhile, even if Marvel is doing it right'- if the studio starts bleeding major money from them to a point that they can't sustain it anymore. And/or more people at the top have to start getting replaced. I do think with the constraints (fitting in Snyder's footage & coming in under two hours)- this film probably as good as it could have been, while achieving all of its objectives.... but oddly, the eye candy isn't nearly as strong as I might have imagined from the trailers-- but the action was serviceable, but not memorable like (odd to say) the director's cut of the otherwise horrible Sucker Punch. Anyhow- back to the topic: What should WB/DC do at this point? Well... fast thoughts- #1: Aquaman is done with filming. I think the ship has sailed. It has to be released. #2: Wonder Woman 2 is a done deal- and their only true success with superheroes right now, so that ship's also sailed. #3: Shazam! looks promising.... but will this turn out to be a Flash fiasco with multiple directors leaving? #4: Speaking of which--- the Flash character got the best reception in JL- despite it being a different version than the tv one... I guess it all depends on what they have in mind, whether or not this could be fantastic film or not. #5: Making a deal with Marvel may not even work even if they wanted to, right now. Marvel seems like it has a full plate and there's a lot of damaged goods at DC at the moment. #6: Batfleck controversy? WB/DC may have felt Affleck essential for box office, but with JL in low numbers, they might be fine moving onto a new Batman. I'm not really feeling Matt Reeves' take on Batman- particularly Gyllenhaal, but I actually feel like unless they reconnect with getting Bale back, I'm kind of bored with Batman films and would be far more interested in many other heroes getting the big-screen treatment.. #7: Unlikely that they view Whedon as someone able to be a miracle worker to save everything now.... but, hard to say. I guess it depends on how they viewed the original JL movie- but when things go bad, it's always easy to find a scapegoat. So going to Whedon and having him be the new Kevin Feige is unlikely at this point. WB/DC has had a history of keeping things in development heck forever/rushing too fast to make up for development heck. So as it is, they can't back down from a few things already started- and they don't seem anxious for a reboot. My suggestions: Put Batman and Superman off-stage for awhile, focus on other characters If they messed up the big guns, start with the small guns. Lower budget films- with more obscure characters. Put strong writers in charge, plan it out solidly. TAKE THEIR TIME BUT NOT TOOO MUCH TIME |
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crown
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Post by crown on Nov 20, 2017 15:39:27 GMT -5
Imagine if they had spent Justice League's $300 million budget on a proper restoration of Superman II instead.....
They should just do that next.
With $300 million, I KNOW we'd finally get the SII we want and the world deserves.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 20, 2017 16:10:49 GMT -5
Imagine if they had spent Justice League's $300 million budget on a proper restoration of Superman II instead..... They should just do that next. With $300 million, I KNOW we'd finally get the SII we want and the world deserves. I think even with $10 million, spent right, that the right filmmaker could find ways to rotoscope raw unused footage, license footage from other 70's films, get good cgi animators to recreate Reeve and the villains, and recreate a good number of the scenes needed. But it really would require a dedicated filmmaker with the ability to sway WB to do it. (*and this is just a guestimate outside the industry, so I have no clue if there are union fees involved/etc....) Selutron had some great ideas (some of which I agreed with, some not so much)- but he wasn't in a position at WB to be able to convince WB to spend that kind of money on an old movie.... I'm not sure anyone does. Bryan Singer did the most by forcing WB to reach out and write a check to the Brando estate for using his old stuff for SR- I'm still not quite convinced that the RDC would have eventually happened without this deal making it more likely. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 20, 2017 16:19:39 GMT -5
I think it's not impossible with enough box office failures, for stockholders to do an about-turn and say 'ok, no more superheroes for awhile, even if Marvel is doing it right'- if the studio starts bleeding major money from them to a point that they can't sustain it anymore. And/or more people at the top have to start getting replaced. I do think with the constraints (fitting in Snyder's footage & coming in under two hours)- this film probably as good as it could have been, while achieving all of its objectives.... but oddly, the eye candy isn't nearly as strong as I might have imagined from the trailers-- but the action was serviceable, but not memorable like (odd to say) the director's cut of the otherwise horrible Sucker Punch. I agree to a point. JL seemed to have a lot going against it even beyond the previous films failures. With all that went on it's hard to imagine it being much better under the circumstances. They should have pushed the film back and replaced Snyder before filming. Damage had already been done but at least it would have been better than trying to Frankenstein a new film in six months. People are going to lose jobs over this. Question is who. All the DC Films before this seem to have made money just not as much as the studio wanted. They aren't in it for a minor profit. They'll never give up on superheroes since there's too much money to be made but they may go back to the drawing board. I think at this point WB is fine with Affleck leaving. They might even want him to leave. He's gotten some negative press in his personal life over the last couple of years and even though I don't think it did major damage to JLs box office it couldn't have helped. His wishywashiness on the role and seeming lack of enthusiasm in public probably didn't go over to well with the WB brass. He never said he was leaving but he didn't flat out deny it after Comic Con either. I totally agree on the budget. If big Marvel films can come in at under $200 million there's no reason something like MOS or BVS had to cost $250 million. Wonder Woman was a great example of doing it right. Suicide Squad done properly shouldn't have cost more than $150 million but for whatever reason the budget bloated. I think if they go forward with his universe after Aquaman and WW2 they should take a step back from being so interconnected and focus on solo movies instead of team ups. They can reference other characters (the way Superman was referenced in Schumachers Bat films) but keep it to a minimum. They've tried taking on Marvel Studios at their own game and failed spectacularly because they don't want to put the same kind of effort into building a proper universe like Marvel did. So be different by doing more stand alone films. Being interconnected has left WB with less flexibility to make changes or push a film back if need be. JL went into production right after BVS came out. They didn't even have much time to make any decisions on what to do. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 20, 2017 17:09:04 GMT -5
Good points. There was a documentary YEARS ago that seemed to still hold true about the patterns of how the presidents of the movie studios operate: Generally, they had/have(?) one year to deliver- overall the movies have to make enough $$$ for the stockholders to be happy- and that seems/seemed to start with the 'giant tentpoles' greenlit for the summertime- usually the superhero flicks- then the 'smaller films' could have a hit/fail depending on how much green the tentpoles brought in. With this year's flops with the Emmerich disaster movie and now disappointment with JL.... yikes. Wonder how comfortable the guy at the top of WB is feeling now....  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 25, 2024 12:49:06 GMT -5
Do they make Flashpoint? What if that is met with the same reception as JL and audiences don't show up? Something like that would cost big money if they do it even close to the scale of the comic book story. Lots of questions. Well we know how this turned out now. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 26, 2024 1:48:36 GMT -5
Do they make Flashpoint? What if that is met with the same reception as JL and audiences don't show up? Something like that would cost big money if they do it even close to the scale of the comic book story. Lots of questions. Well we know how this turned out now. It's a pity, as I really thought the movie was really good, enough to have wanted to see a sequel or an extended cut. |
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