Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 22, 2018 20:12:02 GMT -5
The thing is with GOTG, they established that as very comedic, so they could do it again wit the second film. You can argue it went too far, or was forced, but he characters remained consistent. Thor 3 could have been the exact same film, but Thor needed to remain consistent as a character, same with Banner. As soon as we have characters we know acting out of character, it feels off. We know the only reason for this change is reception of previous films, and people gushing about how funny Hemsworth was in the Ghostbusters reboot. Same thing with Justice League. Superman comes back and is completely different. No in universe reason given, just people don't like the broody version so they changed him. Had they done a Flashpoint story and the result was a more lighthearted DCEU, then I get it, but it was reactionary to the audience. I also hate it when I hear people say JL Superman was proper Superman, he really wasn't. He came off as smug and a poor caricature of what people think Superman is like. Problem is Thor was a comedic and meat headed character in Thor one and the film did have pretty heavy doses of comedy. He asked for a dog or cat big enough to ride and got constantly tasered as a running gag. He threw mugs on the floor to get a refill. He made jokes. You could say that some of that was part of the fish out of water element but even on Asgard there were pretty heavy doses of comedy with the him and the warriors three.  Ragnarok was in Waititis style but it’s not that far removed tonally from what was established by Branagh in the first film. It was later films that made the character more serious. All Ragnarok did was ramp up what had already been there. Thor’s still there. As Ragnarok and infinity war established a lot of his joking is him putting up a facade pretending to still be the same cocky boisterous warrior he was before he lost everything. What justice league does with Superman is far FAR worse. Ragnarok was a tonal shift from the dark world and age of ultron but justice league was a full on retcon from BvS. They literally altered the way the entire world viewed Superman. In BvS he was seen as divisive and even hated by some before he died. Superman was even presented as a potential threat in suicide squad for that reason. Justice league would lead the audience to believe he was always loved and that his death was why the world was going to heII in the film. Heck they even retcon the way his hair was parted. In the iPhone flashback scene his hair is parted on a different side even though it should be on the other side. That’s because they were trying to retcon in a more classic Superman into this universe. Also it’s not so much the character in justice league that’s the problem it’s Cavill (if you ignore the retcon). Playing that type of Superman is not his strength. Reeve could do that. Even Routh could do that. Cavill has no comedic timing and a rather stiff personality. If you’d given Reeve the exact same material he would have made it work instead of comic off as a caricature (which I agree with you on concerning Cavill in his more comedic bits) because he could infuse the character with personality and do it effortlessly. You can see effort in Cavills performance to make it that way when it should be natural. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 22, 2018 20:20:03 GMT -5
Ragnarok is great mirror to the first Thor film and encapsulates how far all the characters have come. It even took a mediocre film like The Dark World and made it work for it the same way The Wolverine X-men DOFP and Logan took garbage like X-men TLS and X-men Origins Wolverine and mined something worthwhile out of them to be used. My biggest complaint about Ragnorok would be Tessa Thompson. She feels out of place...like a miscast. She does the best with what she’s got but she doesn’t come off as the angry warrior that the film presents her as very well. If Thor 3 was played 'straight', I"d be with you on Tessa Thompson as being totally out of place. But with the dialogue she had and the ride that Thor 3 early on made you feel like they were going to have- and with a broadly played Banner- I thought she fit in fine as a broad caricature- much like Jeff Goldblum as the Grandmaster. It was like the 80's Flash Gordon- only with laughs that I felt worked. So, in that vein she worked. On the flip side, I hated GOTG 2 for being too silly and forcing the laughs.... but I'm in the minority there. The gamble I think is if a movie makes you laugh when they want you to. I didn't in that film. If anyone hated THOR 3 for the same reason, I can get it. Grandmaster was meant to be eccentric. Valkyrie is presented with a mix of comedy and tragedy and that I have no problem with. It’s not the character I fault it’s thompson herself. That’s why I said I feel like she is miscast. Imo she doesn’t pull off the character presented as well as some of her other cast members. Like...you watch everyone else and they really knock it out of the park. GOTG 2s problems aren’t from being too silly it’s that they rested on their laurels after the first films massive success. It’s like the film is too self aware and just expects you to laugh at everything they do even if it’s not well written. The gags are there but they just feel lazier. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 3:34:49 GMT -5
If Thor 3 was played 'straight', I"d be with you on Tessa Thompson as being totally out of place. But with the dialogue she had and the ride that Thor 3 early on made you feel like they were going to have- and with a broadly played Banner- I thought she fit in fine as a broad caricature- much like Jeff Goldblum as the Grandmaster. It was like the 80's Flash Gordon- only with laughs that I felt worked. So, in that vein she worked. On the flip side, I hated GOTG 2 for being too silly and forcing the laughs.... but I'm in the minority there. The gamble I think is if a movie makes you laugh when they want you to. I didn't in that film. If anyone hated THOR 3 for the same reason, I can get it. Grandmaster was meant to be eccentric. Valkyrie is presented with a mix of comedy and tragedy and that I have no problem with. It’s not the character I fault it’s thompson herself. That’s why I said I feel like she is miscast. Imo she doesn’t pull off the character presented as well as some of her other cast members. Like...you watch everyone else and they really knock it out of the park. GOTG 2s problems aren’t from being too silly it’s that they rested on their laurels after the first films massive success. It’s like the film is too self aware and just expects you to laugh at everything they do even if it’s not well written. The gags are there but they just feel lazier. I'll agree that Thompson wasn't quite on the same level as Hemsworth, HIddleton, Blanchett, etc. - I was fine with her, but unlike Blanchett or Hiddleton- who I felt couldn't be replaced, I won't argue that another actress might have been a stronger fit. While I have to give James Gunn giant credit for GOTG, I haven't been crazy about a lot of his other work- which at times I find pretty unfunny or just lame. GOTG 2 wasn't terrible, but I totally agree- the film expected you to laugh at everything- but then again, the first one had Nicole Perlman as a co-writer if memory serves. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 6:44:14 GMT -5
I never cared for his scooby doo films but that’s more on the films themselves. Dawn of the dead was good. Liked his troma work. Haven’t seen some of his recent horror films. Thought Super was funny. I think Gunn is talented but you might have a point on another writer contributing to GOTG and that missing element hurting 2. Seems like the same thing may have happened with Deadpool 2.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 6:54:19 GMT -5
Crazy Asian Man, if it makes you feel any better, I sat in the theater with the same frown I had in Thor 3 as I did during Guardians of the Galaxy 2.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 6:57:30 GMT -5
I think I had that same frown for man of steel. And BvS. And suicide squad.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 13:04:37 GMT -5
Crazy Asian Man, if it makes you feel any better, I sat in the theater with the same frown I had in Thor 3 as I did during Guardians of the Galaxy 2. lol! Again, I can relate. With humor, it's always subjective and harder for people to agree on. There's been a ton of films I thought were hilarious, where some of my best friends would look at me and thought I lost my.mind. So, there's that.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 13:08:04 GMT -5
I think I had that same frown for man of steel. And BvS. And suicide squad. I was sad for MOS, as I thought there were a lot of elements I liked- I loved the trailer and (even though I was bummed that SR 2 was bumped off the map from it) - was actually rooting for Snyder to surprise me, but a lot of bad elements horrified me. Coming off of that, I actually thought BvS was very watchable, crazy to say. Suicide Squad I had such low expectations from the get-go, I found that I could sit through it- once. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 13:18:04 GMT -5
Cavill had the same frown in mos and BvS. Maybe the could have removed THAT digitally too... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 13:56:28 GMT -5
Cavill had the same frown in mos and BvS. Maybe the could have removed THAT digitally too... Oddly, I really am ok with Cavill- even though (and it sounds silly but) his nose always seems a little broken and I get distracted by it at times. I know- silly and unfair. An actor's performance should bring you past a nose. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 14:16:01 GMT -5
I guess even kryptonians have flaws. Guess they also haven’t genetically engineered away the cause for baldness yet.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 14:20:33 GMT -5
I guess even kryptonians have flaws. Guess they also haven’t genetically engineered away the cause for baldness yet. Well, the Federation hasn't either. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 14:23:27 GMT -5
Well they’ve grown so enlightened by the 24th century that they’ve grown beyond such things. Baldly go where no one has gone before!
At this rate Snyderman will need “a toupee that flies”
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 16:54:55 GMT -5
I think I had that same frown for man of steel. And BvS. And suicide squad. I saw Man of Steel around the time I was suffering from severe depression. At least I had a Superman film to look forward to! I had my tickets purchased for opening night, ultrascreen showing. And if I felt awful going into that film, I left it far worse - here I was, so damn depressed, and I couldn't even enjoy a Superman film. I sat in my car at 2AM, letting the other film goers exit the parking lot, as I reflected on what I had watched and my own state of being, how miserable. And I turned to my right, and in the backseat of the car next to me a couple were having sex. "At least someone is having a good night" I thought, and I drove off. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 16:56:38 GMT -5
I guess even kryptonians have flaws. Guess they also haven’t genetically engineered away the cause for baldness yet. I'm always distracted by Mellissa Benoist's scar on her forehead - like don't get me wrong, I would not flaw any one for that, but I keep thinking "A Kryptonian shouldn't have that scar." And then I feel like a huge nerd. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 17:11:35 GMT -5
I guess even kryptonians have flaws. Guess they also haven’t genetically engineered away the cause for baldness yet. I'm always distracted by Mellissa Benoist's scar on her forehead - like don't get me wrong, I would not flaw any one for that, but I keep thinking "A Kryptonian shouldn't have that scar." And then I feel like a huge nerd. Things like that do take me out of something depending on what it is. In that specific instance she could have gotten it on krypton since she spent the first twelve years of her life there. Maybe baby Kal El hit her upside the head with a rattle. Little b@stard. I can’t not notice Tina Feys scar...or the fact that Scotty from Star Trek or the black ranger from power rangers are missing fingers. Usually it’s easily ignored but sometimes it’s good to write it into the show or movie like Lukes damaged face in Empire after Hamills car accident. But Cavill though...it’s either hair transplant or a rug in his future since he’s really losing it. Reeve wore a wig and George Reeves dyed his hair so who cares. It wouldn’t bother me either way since most actors do one at some point. As long as it’s not hilariously bad like Travoltas dime store wig. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 17:13:44 GMT -5
I think I had that same frown for man of steel. And BvS. And suicide squad. I saw Man of Steel around the time I was suffering from severe depression. At least I had a Superman film to look forward to! I had my tickets purchased for opening night, ultrascreen showing. And if I felt awful going into that film, I left it far worse - here I was, so darn depressed, and I couldn't even enjoy a Superman film. I sat in my car at 2AM, letting the other film goers exit the parking lot, as I reflected on what I had watched and my own state of being, how miserable. And I turned to my right, and in the backseat of the car next to me a couple were having sex. "At least someone is having a good night" I thought, and I drove off. I thought you loved Man of Steel? Are you telling me you didn’t come out cheering and doing this...  |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 17:32:30 GMT -5
I saw Man of Steel around the time I was suffering from severe depression. At least I had a Superman film to look forward to! I had my tickets purchased for opening night, ultrascreen showing. And if I felt awful going into that film, I left it far worse - here I was, so darn depressed, and I couldn't even enjoy a Superman film. I sat in my car at 2AM, letting the other film goers exit the parking lot, as I reflected on what I had watched and my own state of being, how miserable. And I turned to my right, and in the backseat of the car next to me a couple were having sex. "At least someone is having a good night" I thought, and I drove off. I thought you loved Man of Steel? Are you telling me you didn’t come out cheering and doing this... It took a while for the film to grow on me. I didn't like it much at all the first time. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 17:33:23 GMT -5
I'm always distracted by Mellissa Benoist's scar on her forehead - like don't get me wrong, I would not flaw any one for that, but I keep thinking "A Kryptonian shouldn't have that scar." And then I feel like a huge nerd. Things like that do take me out of something depending on what it is. In that specific instance she could have gotten it on krypton since she spent the first twelve years of her life there. Maybe baby Kal El hit her upside the head with a rattle. Little b@stard. I thought about that too, but they do so many flashbacks to young Kara without the scar so.... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 18:43:59 GMT -5
Things like that do take me out of something depending on what it is. In that specific instance she could have gotten it on krypton since she spent the first twelve years of her life there. Maybe baby Kal El hit her upside the head with a rattle. Little b@stard. I thought about that too, but they do so many flashbacks to young Kara without the scar so.... Ha! I thought I was the only one that got distracted by that! Now and then I do also get distracted by actors' facial issues- there was a scene in the original LOTR:FOTR- where Frodo had a pimple growing underneath the makeup that felt wrong (now I assume they could CGI it out)- in the Imax Spiderman 2, great screen, except for closeups on Tobey's face that I didn't notice before (again, maybe CGI can smooth it out now)- and another Supergirl in Smallville- Adrian Pallecki had a little pimple bump in between her eyes that distracted. On the other hand- I never get distracted by James Edward Olmos' facial scars. Maybe the secret is to either have many or not at all? |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 20:40:53 GMT -5
Things like that do take me out of something depending on what it is. In that specific instance she could have gotten it on krypton since she spent the first twelve years of her life there. Maybe baby Kal El hit her upside the head with a rattle. Little b@stard. I thought about that too, but they do so many flashbacks to young Kara without the scar so.... That seems more like an oversight than anything else though. Especially since they barely show young Kara on the show. Remember kryptonians powers don’t usually all develop instantaneously. Maybe she got it at some point in between if they have to explain it. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 21:01:12 GMT -5
On the other hand- I never get distracted by James Edward Olmos' facial scars. Maybe the secret is to either have many or not at all? Tom Cruise’s big center tooth. You’ll never be able to unsee it now.  |
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crown
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Post by crown on May 23, 2018 21:27:35 GMT -5
Or Christopher Reeve's god-awful mid 90's haircut. Did he lose the sideburns to try to put Superman behind him?  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on May 23, 2018 21:58:42 GMT -5
Reeve suffered from Alopecia. That’s why his hair looked like that from time to time. It flared back up in the early 2000s before he just shaved his head.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 23, 2018 22:03:25 GMT -5
Reeve suffered from Alopecia. That’s why his hair looked like that from time to time. It flared back up in the early 2000s before he just shaved his head. I have a relative that suffered the same at an early age. It can do a number on self-esteem. I can only wonder how it must have felt for Reeve seeing that bit where Hackman takes off his wig to expose his (artificially) bald plate. |
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