Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Nov 23, 2018 19:20:55 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 23, 2018 19:38:35 GMT -5
I think most of these choices are films that are self-contained--- so I wonder if that made him cross off "Civll War" and "Infinity War"? Having said that- I am suprised that Batman Begins didn't get included- and not suprised TDKR was left off. Tim Burton's "Batman Returns" is an interesting choice by Del Toro, because it strikes me as the the most similar to Del Toro's style - some humor and whimsy but with an edge of horror in his heckboy films and "Shape of Water". I would have included X-men: First Class & X-men DOFP personally (the first X-men was good, but incomplete imo...the script showed some gaps in the storytelling and I'm not suprised that at one point SInger was going to refilm parts of the first X-men to re-insert, much like Speilberg did for his CE3k) "Unbreakable" I never liked, always thought it was overrated.... though Shamalan's upcoming 'crossover' film intrigues. |
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Nov 25, 2018 20:42:00 GMT -5
Most of his choices are also director driven. Directors with strong unique styles. Like you said also stand alone but most of them are also influential or firsts of sorts. The MCU films aren’t stand alone and are more producer driven.
I think Batman Returns was chosen over Batman for the same reason TDK got included over Batman Begins. Returns is pure Burton unfiltered the same way TDK is pure Nolan.
I would have chosen DOFP or First Class over X2 but I think X2 got the nod because it was the first film that truly showed what an X-men film was capable of. X-men showed it was possible but the second film showed what Singer wanted to do since he had the budget.
I really liked Unbreakable. It was one of the first movies to do the gritty real world take on superheroes along with X-men long before Batman Begins or Chronicle but it was also a true deconstruction of the genre.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 27, 2018 2:24:12 GMT -5
Most of his choices are also director driven. Directors with strong unique styles. Like you said also stand alone but most of them are also influential or firsts of sorts. The MCU films aren’t stand alone and are more producer driven. I think Batman Returns was chosen over Batman for the same reason TDK got included over Batman Begins. Returns is pure Burton unfiltered the same way TDK is pure Nolan. I would have chosen DOFP or First Class over X2 but I think X2 got the nod because it was the first film that truly showed what an X-men film was capable of. X-men showed it was possible but the second film showed what Singer wanted to do since he had the budget. I really liked Unbreakable. It was one of the first movies to do the gritty real world take on superheroes along with X-men long before Batman Begins or Chronicle but it was also a true deconstruction of the genre. I have friends that REALLY loved Unbreakable. I had a hard time with Willis being cast and I think the way it was marketed- I expected it to be "Sixth Sense part 2"- rather than a superhero film. |
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
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Post by Metallo on Nov 28, 2018 21:35:36 GMT -5
I always saw it as a different thing form sixth sense as soon as I saw what the premise was. It was a comic book superhero deconstruction. They both had mystery elements and thriller elements but sixth sense is different subject matter. They both have that Shamaylan style though. Much like the Watchmen comics it asked that question of what if superheroes existed in the real world. Unlike Watchmen it didn’t try to keep the direct superhero style and instead went for a more realistic translation of things like costumes while still keeping the idea and the intent.
Unbreakable came along at the right time for comic books (but not comic book movies) since they were so established as a fully formed art form with recognizable tropes and formulas and were getting a lot of mainstream attention in the press after the 90s. It was way ahead of its time there when it came being a huge hit movie the way these would be. I think that’s why it flew under the radar for a lot of people.
I thought Willis was a perfect choice because he had the strong macho leading man looks of golden age superheroes and pulp characters but the flawed Everyman appeal of silver age Marvel heroes.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 29, 2018 2:59:03 GMT -5
I always saw it as a different thing form sixth sense as soon as I saw what the premise was. It was a comic book superhero deconstruction. They both had mystery elements and thriller elements but sixth sense is different subject matter. They both have that Shamaylan style though. Much like the Watchmen comics it asked that question of what if superheroes existed in the real world. Unlike Watchmen it didn’t try to keep the direct superhero style and instead went for a more realistic translation of things like costumes while still keeping the idea and the intent. Unbreakable came along at the right time for comic books (but not comic book movies) since they were so established as a fully formed art form with recognizable tropes and formulas and were getting a lot of mainstream attention in the press after the 90s. It was way ahead of its time there when it came being a huge hit movie the way these would be. I think that’s why it flew under the radar for a lot of people. I thought Willis was a perfect choice because he had the strong macho leading man looks of golden age superheroes and pulp characters but the flawed Everyman appeal of silver age Marvel heroes. I know a number of friends that LLLLLOVE "Unbreakable"- and my friends echo the same feelings about the film like you have, but to me, it rang false, even as it was unfolding. I like Willis in certain movies as certain characters- but everything blended together in this film just rubbed me the wrong way- as I dislike it on a very close level to MOS. (Perhaps even more). |
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Metallo
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The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,076
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Post by Metallo on Dec 1, 2018 14:14:49 GMT -5
I think Unbreakable was going for something that MOS not only failed at but missed the point of. The real world setting was there because in the world of the film it was riffing on the medium of comics within its story. MOS tried to take a real world approach to comic book material but wasn’t trying to acknowledge the material as an actual thing. Unbreakable was an examination of the entire superhero concept and the comic book art form. MOS was more of an examination of the Superman mythos. MOS tried to have it both ways. Making a real world Superman film only goes so far especially if you don’t deliver.
Unbreakable went one way with it and stayed the course asking “What if superheroes existed and how would they work in the real world?” It didn’t try to directly translate every more out there concept like the costumes or the crazier powers. It’s very grounded and shows the flaws. I think that’s why Willis works well in the film. He’s not Superman. There’s nothing exactly like it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 2, 2018 2:34:58 GMT -5
I think Unbreakable was going for something that MOS not only failed at but missed the point of. The real world setting was there because in the world of the film it was riffing on the medium of comics within its story. MOS tried to take a real world approach to comic book material but wasn’t trying to acknowledge the material as an actual thing. Unbreakable was an examination of the entire superhero concept and the comic book art form. MOS was more of an examination of the Superman mythos. MOS tried to have it both ways. Making a real world Superman film only goes so far especially if you don’t deliver. Unbreakable went one way with it and stayed the course asking “What if superheroes existed and how would they work in the real world?” It didn’t try to directly translate every more out there concept like the costumes or the crazier powers. It’s very grounded and shows the flaws. I think that’s why Willis works well in the film. He’s not Superman. There’s nothing exactly like it. I'll give it credit in that the creator of it was certainly passionate about it- but, I just wish I loved it as much as others do. As far as the 'what if superheroes existed in the real world?' concept- I can't help but feel that Alan Moore's (and then Neil Gaiman's) "Miraclemen" did that best to such an amazing degree that I don't even think Watchmen (even though it was Moore competing with Moore) dealt with it as well. I almost wish that NEtflix would do a good version of THAT comic rather than rebooting Watchmen as a series. |
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