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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 10, 2019 16:04:37 GMT -5
Viewing these episodes on the CW site- very cool that it's available there!
Episode 1:
LOVED the Burt Ward cameo at the beginning--- gave me a great smile on my face right off the bat. (sorry for the pun) Hilarious!
The mirroring of Supes & Lois saying the STM lines was great (though I still have difficulty with the casting of both).
Was this the 'big' death by Arrow, though? With so many deaths and resseurections, hard to feel any impact or belief in it, though (much like how I knew there was a Black Widow movie coming when watching Endgame). Edit: apparently it IS the death.
Moved along at a rapid clip (as it should).... but I have to admit, not following any of the current shows made me feel a bit lost, though I got the general gist of it. (Arrow has a grown up daughter? huh? wha? Who's on what earth now?)
Episode 2:
Oh, MANN!
I agree about the scene with Welling and Durance - it was one scene, but darned if the writers didn't pack so much in, as you mentioned. Would have been great if Rosenbaum had agreed to an appearance- (makes me wonder what the writers would have done)- but the bit of Luthor being president did have a real unnecessarily sour note in an otherwise great scene.... even if there was history with it in the comics. I do wonder what storyline Clark was referring to when he gave up his powers- in the Alan Moore final story, Clark changed his identity. So there's a bit of confusion with these 'epilogues' being given for multiple shows.
The Routh Clark/Superman was great!!! I just was prepared for a cameo... so, definitely happy that there's much more. Great that they had a line that "He looks just like Ray Palmer!"-- that was a must. The stuff with Lois would have been stronger if I didn't absolutely HATE the casting for Lois.
Keeping eyes and ears open for references - I liked the touch of Clark being the new editor-in-chief and how they put a definite answer as to why Perry, Jimmy, and Lois don't appear.... also the mention of Jason (though would be nice if they mention what happened to him later on somehow if they're going that far).
Anyhow- pretty happy so far with what's there... for a tv budget Endgame, while some of the bits really fall flat for someone like me who's not following all the series- I'm pretty darned impressed so far!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2019 5:21:24 GMT -5
Episode 3: Opening with.... Ashley Scott as a Bird of Prey?  WOW! Kind of wish they gave her more to do, but just seeing her there (she looks great for her age still!) as the character was fantastic. Later on, there's a really great 'finish' to the Wesley Shipp Flash --- and having them flashback (and have to pay the actress) to an early Flash episode as he was dying was an extra beat that should have and was there--- so good!!! Also... my hunger to see Superman Returns get a bit of a resolution for all these years- it's kind of there! Love the scene with Kara ogling Ray Palmer/Superman- and being told he's kind of her cousin was gold--- and I HOPE that Routh-Superman is in the last two episodes coming in January, but if not..... It's kind of like seeing the Donner Cut with the 'new' Reeve footage. Every/ any new scene with Routh in the (new and better) Superman costume made me feel like (in a way) I was getting the Singer "Man of Steel" film that I was hoping for, but we never got. So--- VERY pleased with what they've been doing. I admire the pains that they went through for the multiple shows for the crossover- but no doubt- the guest stars from all the different series and giving those series a 'final sendoff' in a way (or a nod to)- is what makes this the tv equivalent of Endgame. If the final two episodes are terrible (but I don't think they'll disappoint)--- the guest bits are so well done- within a story that's already REALLY pretty good- that imo I'll forgive Berlianti almost everything I didn't care for. (I wonder if they actually ever gave Routh an offer to do a Superman tv series, as they could have creatively done so if the mutliverse becomes singular at the end of this series, like how DC did it back in the day)-- I do kind of wish that they would have been able to have Linda Carter as Wonder Woman- but given what they DID get (suprised no Titans outside of one shot of Hawk) so far, I'm happy enough..... but, yeah, I still want more Routh/Supes in the last two if possible! |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2019 9:14:20 GMT -5
I’ve really enjoyed all the cameos. Most of them played out the way I expected with people looking up to see their worlds destroyed. Loved Burt Wards bit. Always down for one more “Holy ______.” Seeing Robert Whul as Knox again was something I never thought I’d see. The Birds of Prey one was a pretty deep cut but they even got Dinah Meyer back to voice Oracle/Barbara Gordon. They knew some people were asking for her and they really went the extra mile there. The Lucifer cameo came out of nowhere especially since Tom Ellis emphatically denied it.
It really seems like they’re taking this opportunity to give a lot of these actors and shows/movies some sense of resolution as you said or closure. A lot of them ended early or on a disappointment so it’s not only nice to revisit them and catch up with what they're doing all these years later but to give a final goodbye to the fans. Cryer/Superman IV, Welling/Smallville, Routh/Superman Returns, Whul/Batman 89, Ward/Batman 66, Ryan/Constantine, Ashley Scott/BOP, Shipp/The Flash, and even Conroy/Batman all feel like they’re getting to put a period on the end of a sentence they never quite got to finish before.
I also liked the nod to Superman’s origin with Clark and Lois launching baby Jon from Argo to Earth before it was destroyed. The Brando dialogue was indeed a perfect touch too.
Thankfully they didn’t really fully reverse Oliver Queens death. They teased it but since he chose to stay in the afterlife that made it almost sting worse. His daughter is from 20 years in the future so that’s why she’s older. She was brought back in time by the Monitor. It seems like all this was orchestrated for a reason. I like that he’s been moving everything and everyone around like pieces on a chess board. He doesn’t seem to be concerned with how this is affecting people because he’s looking at the big picture. Even bringing Lex back to life and setting earth 90 Flash on a certain path was done with the purpose of gaining specific outcomes. Doesn’t matter to him that a lot of people died in the process.
The Smallville scene was a lot. Very emotional. It makes sense that this Clark would want a normal life and a family after serving his time as Superman. Maybe on his Earth there’s not a need anymore or someone else has taken up the cause. Lex did end up being elected president in the Smallville series finale so that’s in line with the continuity with the show.
The moment of realization that Wellings Clark has kids was touching especially after all the strong family moments with his parents. It would be important to him. I think it was a nod to his ending in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Lex’s vain ego driven response was perfect. Clark’s look of annoyed boredom over Lexs tantrum/monologue was hilariously perfect. Had a sense of he’s been there and done that with his Lex more than enough.
Routh really got his due here. They treated his Superman like the greatest hero of the multiverse. He had some great moments of emotion when he’s doing everything he can to save people but it’s futile. Kara oolgling him like a horny teenager was hilarious. She did the same thing to Luke Fox. Who knew wholesome Kara was a secret luster? 😂 Almost as funny as Lois being thirsty for every Superman she meets.
Let me say once again that Cryer is a the best Lex ever IMO. What a mother*cker. Killing Superman AND saving his own skin in such a brutal way was such a baller/bastard move. It was totally something Lex Luthor would do! He hates Superman SO much that to do it like that made perfect sense. He’s always said he was the hero of the story so his ego is massive. The look of anger and disgust people were giving him made it even better. Cryers got some kind of combination of qualities the others lack. A snide arrogance and unlikability with the talent to be funny at the same time. He’s so...weaselly. Rosenbaum may have had the character depth and development but you really felt sorry for him because his fall was tragic. With Cryer you just hate him. But you relish hating him. And you hate yourself for laughing at his jokes while he rolls his eyes.
The death of Shipps Flash was so obvious but fitting. It’s clear he’s been playing the Flash’s role from the COIE comic since last year. An example is him trying to warn other heroes through ghostly appearances. Just as the silver age Flash comics introduced Barry Allen and kicked off a new era in superhero stories the 1990 series kicked off a new era in superhero shows in terms of drama and production values and brought them into the 90s. Gustin is more a Rebirth/Flashpoint/New 52 inspired version of the character. It was the silver age Flash that died in Crisis so it seemed somehow proper that Shipps silver age based version of the character go out in a blaze of glory in the tv adaptation.
That Flashback (pun intended) to the series with Barry and Tina hit me right in the feels. I was wondering if we’d see the image of his empty costume from the comics (which was nodded to in the old show when Barry’s clone died) or see him become the bolt of lighting that gave him his powers in the first place but oh well. I though it was pretty much a perfect sendoff for a hero.
Saving seven heroes while the multiverse was destroyed really gave a sense of stakes. Earth one Barry has been preparing to die this whole time and wanted his team to go on without him only to not only survive but watch everyone he loved die instead. That’s got to be a real kick in the balls. We’re left with a pretty to close approximation to a classic justice league roster with the seven and just when you think Rouths Superman is going to give a rousing speech and lead them in one final battle against the Anti Monitor...he’s burned up from the inside by anti matter and dies. Wow. Talk about taking away even more hope for the heroes. Pariah sending them to Vanishing Point was not only a clever callback to the comics and to season one of Legends of Tomorrow but it made perfect sense. I hadn’t thought about it in years.
They’ve got even more time to work on the last two episodes so I’m expecting some cool things. Eobard Thawne is still out there and he will be involved in all this. Since he wasn’t in the original COIE comic story he’s kind of a wildcard. What he does will be very interesting.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2019 12:58:48 GMT -5
You put a lot of points out there better than I did- TOTALLY agree! Having Routh's Superman seem to be "THE" Superman at the center gave the most joy. If he is actually 'dead', then he did get a great sendoff in a way.... and it's such a joy to see/hear Routh and Wesley Shipp (second hand) get a great sense of resolution given how both of their characters were kind of left hanging when a SR sequel never happened and how the Flash series just abruptly ended. Supposedly there's still more cameo suprises for Jan 14..... I know that Guggenheim revealed that it opens with the Monitor/anti-monitor's origin but that's all I could get so far. I hope if Oliver becomes the Spectre, that it's not just Amiell in a hoodie.  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 11, 2019 13:55:51 GMT -5
I think when the earths are restored or some earths are restored we will see more earths. Maybe the Gotham earth. Maybe the SYFY version of Krypton (you know Cameron Cuffe was dying to do this) maybe even Lois & Clark’s earth. And I’m not counting Welling out just yet. Imagine if he shows up in the suit in part 5 to help everyone defeat the Anti Monitor. Things are constantly changing (like with the rights to use the Williams Superman theme) and Tom Ellis outright lying about being in the crossover as Lucifer.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 11, 2019 17:13:04 GMT -5
I think when the earths are restored or some earths are restored we will see more earths. Maybe the Gotham earth. Maybe the SYFY version of Krypton (you know Cameron Cuffe was dying to do this) maybe even Lois & Clark’s earth. And I’m not counting Welling out just yet. Imagine if he shows up in the suit in part 5 to help everyone defeat the Anti Monitor. Things are constantly changing (like with the rights to use the Williams Superman theme) and Tom Ellis outright lying about being in the crossover as Lucifer. I feel like I kind of missed out on the fun by not having watched some of the solo series like Lucifer and Constantine- (I thought they might have already been part of the same earth)- the Williams Superman theme and the pains to make the environments match up were great (love the extra pains also to make the SR Daily PLanet look like a similar design even with lowered budget). Guggenheim has said that he wished the crossovers could have had a special dvd set, but that for complicated contract issues, those couldn't happen. Pity- but at least they're all still availalbe on blu/ dvd (for now).... Ironically, I recently bought the Netflix Defenders set on dvd---- and in rewatching it, was agonizing on just how boring and cheap the whole thing was. After watching this, I doubt I'll go back to rewatching the Defenders anytime soon.... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 12, 2019 13:44:24 GMT -5
I think you can watch and enjoy crisis on its own but watching all the other shows certainly adds to the experience. I’ve never seen a full episode of Lucifer only clips on YouTube but I found his scene highly entertaining and see why some love the show. I think WB knows this might hook some people and get them to go back and watch shows they never did before just out of curiosity. More money in their pockets.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 12, 2019 14:14:41 GMT -5
I think you can watch and enjoy crisis on its own but watching all the other shows certainly adds to the experience. I’ve never seen a full episode of Lucifer only clips on YouTube but I found his scene highly entertaining and see why some love the show. I think WB knows this might hook some people and get them to go back and watch shows they never did before just out of curiosity. More money in their pockets. Hm.... excellent point. I wonder if that’s how Berlianti pitched it to WB- if he didn’t he should have!  |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Dec 12, 2019 14:34:13 GMT -5
They had to know that was an element of it. It’s why all these shows have done legacy casting since Smallville. I mean it was always there but not old actors back in recurring roles.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 12, 2019 17:43:57 GMT -5
They had to know that was an element of it. It’s why all these shows have done legacy casting since Smallville. I mean it was always there but not old actors back in recurring roles. The series looks expensive for tv- I just hope that the powers that be either get the $ they wanted from it to encourage more willingness to more stuff like that. |
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