Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Feb 20, 2020 9:05:44 GMT -5
They did a lot hard work and some shots actually look pretty good but others look like something from a cartoon. Worse than the shots in the original film. For a fan thing it’s fine but I’d expect much more if WB ever did it. I’d rather they actually tackled the Donner cut of Superman II and replaced some of those shots.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 20, 2020 18:12:20 GMT -5
They did a lot hard work and some shots actually look pretty good but others look like something from a cartoon. Worse than the shots in the original film. For a fan thing it’s fine but I’d expect much more if WB ever did it. I’d rather they actually tackled the Donner cut of Superman II and replaced some of those shots. Agreed--- The thing with STM is that the quality of the filming and the editing was so consistently high- that even if any fx are dated, it had a certain visual style that stayed throughout. With SII- both the Lester/Donner hybrid and the overly cut-up Donner version are either so mismatched or choppy that it could use any help it could get--- so, definitely i agree that if there were effort to be put in, would have preferred it be the RDC. |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823 
|
Post by atp on Feb 21, 2020 1:10:42 GMT -5
I hope they get rid of the turning back the world crap
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 21, 2020 15:05:38 GMT -5
I hope they get rid of the turning back the world crap If they did something with either restoring the edit to be the way it originally was supposed to end with the cliffhanger and no time reversal, this could be a fresher experience I think. In any case, it seems like it'd be an interesting enough view- but as Metallo commented- would have preferred that the resources had gone towards fixing the SII RDC/Theatrical... |
|
|
|
Post by Kamdan on Feb 24, 2020 10:12:17 GMT -5
I really liked the retro vibe the trailer was going for, but my interests dropped off immediately when I saw the first new effects shot. There’s no need to create all new ones that are jarring and look like they’re more suited for Superman Returns. All they had to do was enhance a few shots here and there, like the Star Wars Revisited fan edits.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 25, 2020 1:34:01 GMT -5
I really liked the retro vibe the trailer was going for, but my interests dropped off immediately when I saw the first new effects shot. There’s no need to create all new ones that are jarring and look like they’re more suited for Superman Returns. All they had to do was enhance a few shots here and there, like the Star Wars Revisited fan edits. I think of it like the difference between Speilberg's ET special edition and Lucas' SW edition: With Speilberg's, it's fun to see because the original was also released so the new version never replaced but supplement the original. With Lucas, there's nothing but resentment because the originals aren't made available... So, I'd be curious to see this version- but no way could it replace the original nor my memories attached to it... |
|
|
|
Post by Kamdan on Feb 25, 2020 20:14:11 GMT -5
I think of it like the difference between Speilberg's ET special edition and Lucas' SW edition: With Speilberg's, it's fun to see because the original was also released so the new version never replaced but supplement the original. With Lucas, there's nothing but resentment because the originals aren't made available... So, I'd be curious to see this version- but no way could it replace the original nor my memories attached to it... Something like this is what I would have in mind for “enhancements.” You’re not replacing anything but making what’s already there better looking. Selutron had the right idea too when it came to his works. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 25, 2020 22:21:42 GMT -5
I think of it like the difference between Speilberg's ET special edition and Lucas' SW edition: With Speilberg's, it's fun to see because the original was also released so the new version never replaced but supplement the original. With Lucas, there's nothing but resentment because the originals aren't made available... So, I'd be curious to see this version- but no way could it replace the original nor my memories attached to it... Something like this is what I would have in mind for “enhancements.” You’re not replacing anything but making what’s already there better looking. Selutron had the right idea too when it came to his works. That's very cool! Cheers to Alex for that! Why is it fan stuff is better than the pro enhancements for the Donner series? |
|
|
|
Post by Kamdan on Feb 26, 2020 19:28:24 GMT -5
Because us fans have the passion to see it through. People like Thau see it as a means of getting paid.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 26, 2020 20:59:02 GMT -5
Because us fans have the passion to see it through. People like Thau see it as a means of getting paid. Ouch!  I'm not a fan at all of many of Michael Thau's choices.... but it's a bit strong to suggest he only did it for monetary reasons. It didn't seem like there was a lot of money put into it--- there have been other 'director's cuts' that mentioned how budgets were incredibly low for recuts. ("Payback" with Mel Gibson comes to mind.) It is a little sad that for all the hours and hours fans put into these things- that WB most likely would never come to terms with paying for a fan's work on it---- even if the result would be WB probably paying less than top dollar and the audience getting passionate results for less cost than it would have, had it been assigned to a (presumable) professional person at professional wages.... |
|
|
|
Post by Kamdan on Feb 27, 2020 8:30:19 GMT -5
Thau was only in the know about the extra material because of his relationship with Donner and definitely saw it as a means of getting work. He probably got treated well for the extended edition of the first movie and wanted to continue that with handling a new cut of Superman II.
Unlike Ridley Scott’s work on the final cut of a Blade Runner, Donner seemed to have a more hands off attitude when it came to recutting II. There’s a bit where Donner said he regretted saying he didn’t want to be paid for it, so everyone’s hearts don’t quite seem in the right place. It’s understandable since Superman is a definitely a sore spot for Donner, but the lack of passion is definitely noticeable.
It seems best in the hands of us fans who can mostly deal with the Lester material that Donner loathes with a vengeance. The layout Booshman made for his projected fan edit is just what we’re looking for. Also gotta keep in mind that fan edits don’t have to worry about deadlines.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 27, 2020 20:54:12 GMT -5
Thau was only in the know about the extra material because of his relationship with Donner and definitely saw it as a means of getting work. He probably got treated well for the extended edition of the first movie and wanted to continue that with handling a new cut of Superman II. Unlike Ridley Scott’s work on the final cut of a Blade Runner, Donner seemed to have a more hands off attitude when it came to recutting II. There’s a bit where Donner said he regretted saying he didn’t want to be paid for it, so everyone’s hearts don’t quite seem in the right place. It’s understandable since Superman is a definitely a sore spot for Donner, but the lack of passion is definitely noticeable. It seems best in the hands of us fans who can mostly deal with the Lester material that Donner loathes with a vengeance. The layout Booshman made for his projected fan edit is just what we’re looking for. Also gotta keep in mind that fan edits don’t have to worry about deadlines. Donner was reportedly busy with filming "16 Blocks" at the same time during most of the re-edit.... so that part is understandable. On the flip side, can't blame Donner for being so frustrated at the (unnecessarily) rewritten and reshot Lester material.... but if that had to be the case... On the other hand- We have two RDC versions that are out there- The first one that Thau did was less choppy and included more Lester material- but that also included the extended tv cut version of Non throwing the police siren & getting the kid. In the commentary, Donner made a reference that suggested he hated that bit- so, that made sense that the wider released version doesn't have that included. I know that there's the back and forth about what Thau may have been responsible for & Donner responsible for- Maybe good for a separate thread for that.... |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Feb 28, 2020 12:21:38 GMT -5
Now that Donner has his cut it would be nice if we got the best cut of II possible. Just leave him out of the process because this would be it’s own beast. A version made by someone who loves the films but can also remain objective despite all the Donner/Lester/Salkind drama. Just edit together the best version of the movie possible. It’s in there somewhere within all that material. It won’t happen but if it did it would be great if we could get it for the 40th anniversary.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Feb 28, 2020 12:58:17 GMT -5
Agreed.
Ironically, the best cut (IMO) would have less Donner footage, not more.
I am even torn on the whole repowering scene. Perhaps we don't need to see it after all. It's almost better for audiences not knowing if they'll ever see Superman again, right up until the newspapers start blowing...
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 29, 2020 2:28:43 GMT -5
Now that Donner has his cut it would be nice if we got the best cut of II possible. Just leave him out of the process because this would be it’s own beast. A version made by someone who loves the films but can also remain objective despite all the Donner/Lester/Salkind drama. Just edit together the best version of the movie possible. It’s in there somewhere within all that material. It won’t happen but if it did it would be great if we could get it for the 40th anniversary. I think if the RDC were blended with the TV extended cut, that we'd get the best of both worlds--- minus the Lester excesses. The three most flawed sequences from the RDC imo were: #1: The depowering with the missing closeups of Lois--- this could be fixed by simple fx & using the Lester closeups of Lois. #2: The screen test--- unless there are other options, it really feels like a lost cause to sew this together properly with what they had. Not a giant fan of the pink bears scene, but... it does feel like a real scene out of a movie, not a test. #3: The repowering scene--- Even before the odd 'Reeve shaking by himself' scene- the cutting between Jor-el and Supes' reactions felt really off.... Was this Baird's cutting? It doesn't feel like it, considering how all the other dramatic scenes he cut felt for STM/SII- If #1 and #3 could be fixed up, I could see the material from both the RDC and tv cut versions making a strong 'best' Donner cut... |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Feb 29, 2020 2:33:14 GMT -5
You forgot:
#4 Lack of a CGI villains rule the world scene.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 29, 2020 2:42:32 GMT -5
You forgot: #4 Lack of a CGI villains rule the world scene. True.... |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Feb 29, 2020 8:53:30 GMT -5
Now that Donner has his cut it would be nice if we got the best cut of II possible. Just leave him out of the process because this would be it’s own beast. A version made by someone who loves the films but can also remain objective despite all the Donner/Lester/Salkind drama. Just edit together the best version of the movie possible. It’s in there somewhere within all that material. It won’t happen but if it did it would be great if we could get it for the 40th anniversary. I think if the RDC were blended with the TV extended cut, that we'd get the best of both worlds--- minus the Lester excesses. The three most flawed sequences from the RDC imo were: #1: The depowering with the missing closeups of Lois--- this could be fixed by simple fx & using the Lester closeups of Lois. #2: The screen test--- unless there are other options, it really feels like a lost cause to sew this together properly with what they had. Not a giant fan of the pink bears scene, but... it does feel like a real scene out of a movie, not a test. #3: The repowering scene--- Even before the odd 'Reeve shaking by himself' scene- the cutting between Jor-el and Supes' reactions felt really off.... Was this Baird's cutting? It doesn't feel like it, considering how all the other dramatic scenes he cut felt for STM/SII- If #1 and #3 could be fixed up, I could see the material from both the RDC and tv cut versions making a strong 'best' Donner cut... Yeah. A lot of the Donner cut could be fixed with simple editing fixes and better creative choices. Thau was pretty hamfisted with his. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 3, 2020 0:33:37 GMT -5
I think if the RDC were blended with the TV extended cut, that we'd get the best of both worlds--- minus the Lester excesses. The three most flawed sequences from the RDC imo were: #1: The depowering with the missing closeups of Lois--- this could be fixed by simple fx & using the Lester closeups of Lois. #2: The screen test--- unless there are other options, it really feels like a lost cause to sew this together properly with what they had. Not a giant fan of the pink bears scene, but... it does feel like a real scene out of a movie, not a test. #3: The repowering scene--- Even before the odd 'Reeve shaking by himself' scene- the cutting between Jor-el and Supes' reactions felt really off.... Was this Baird's cutting? It doesn't feel like it, considering how all the other dramatic scenes he cut felt for STM/SII- If #1 and #3 could be fixed up, I could see the material from both the RDC and tv cut versions making a strong 'best' Donner cut... Yeah. A lot of the Donner cut could be fixed with simple editing fixes and better creative choices. Thau was pretty hamfisted with his. It is possible that he just didn't have enough time and resources.... but then again, the international cut was always sitting there as a model to guide the way...so it's just either really sad and/or confusing as to how it ended up the way it did.. What I do wonder about is whether or not there was better footage to choose from with the Lester material- but Lester was so frugal, I just assume he did one or two takes and said, "it's good enough. move on.". |
|
