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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 26, 2020 15:47:54 GMT -5
SUPERMAN 3:
* The opening was kind of fun, although it didn't really have any place in a Superman film...
* The performance by Reeve of "Evil Superman" was of course sort of interesting- though I wish it was written with more depth-
* Annette O'Toole as Lana.... though so under-utilized.
* A few nice flying shots
SUPERMAN 4:
* More ambitious and serious script- I still prefer it to S3
* Reeve still looks great as Supes
* Committed performances by the rest of the cast
* If you look at it like a fan film of the Reeve Superman series- it's not so bad...
It's a pity for many reasons why Chris Reeve isn't still with us, but it's also interesting to note that S4 might have a special place in some kids heart for being the first Reeve Superman seen on the big screen...
To get the love for those 'other' Superman films might have made Reeve feel a little better about how it turned out...
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Post by atp on Mar 26, 2020 15:51:21 GMT -5
SUPERMAN 3: * The opening was kind of fun, although it didn't really have any place in a Superman film... * The performance by Reeve of "Evil Superman" was of course sort of interesting- though I wish it was written with more depth- * Annette O'Toole as Lana.... though so under-utilized. * A few nice flying shots SUPERMAN 4: * More ambitious and serious script- I still prefer it to S3 * Reeve still looks great as Supes * Committed performances by the rest of the cast * If you look at it like a fan film of the Reeve Superman series- it's not so bad... It's a pity for many reasons why Chris Reeve isn't still with us, but it's also interesting to note that S4 might have a special place in some kids heart for being the first Reeve Superman seen on the big screen... To get the love for those 'other' Superman films might have made Reeve feel a little better about how it turned out... I liked Reeve's portrayal of Clark a lot in S3. He is less bumbling and awkward, but still totally different to Superman. I love all the scenes with Clark and Lana. |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 26, 2020 16:11:57 GMT -5
Agree with both of you. For 3 it was nice to go back to Smallville, Lana, and to see a different side of Clark. More of the “real” Clark if you will. It was fun to see Jimmy at the center of a big sequence. The chemical plant fire was very impressive.
For 4 the more serious tone was much appreciated. Alexander Courages score is my second favorite of the series. I appreciate getting to see the fortress again. Luthors return was welcome. I was happy the movie avoided kryptonite.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 26, 2020 16:56:07 GMT -5
SUPERMAN 3: * The opening was kind of fun, although it didn't really have any place in a Superman film... * The performance by Reeve of "Evil Superman" was of course sort of interesting- though I wish it was written with more depth- * Annette O'Toole as Lana.... though so under-utilized. * A few nice flying shots SUPERMAN 4: * More ambitious and serious script- I still prefer it to S3 * Reeve still looks great as Supes * Committed performances by the rest of the cast * If you look at it like a fan film of the Reeve Superman series- it's not so bad... It's a pity for many reasons why Chris Reeve isn't still with us, but it's also interesting to note that S4 might have a special place in some kids heart for being the first Reeve Superman seen on the big screen... To get the love for those 'other' Superman films might have made Reeve feel a little better about how it turned out... I liked Reeve's portrayal of Clark a lot in S3. He is less bumbling and awkward, but still totally different to Superman. I love all the scenes with Clark and Lana. If only they had done more with Clark and Lana rather than going for the cheap and easy laughs. It's a sweet romance but never really mines the story possibilities for what it could have been. Also, they could have had flashbacks with the original 'young' Clark (Jeff East) and 'young' Lana to fill in some of the time gaps in STM and made it more epic. (Maybe Lana was aware of his abilities first?) Lost opportunities for S3 to keep the epic storytelling of STM - oh well... |
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2020 13:13:55 GMT -5
They could have done more with Lana but I don’t really have too many complaints with what we got. They were never going to go as far as they did with Lois in the first two films but I think they were smart not to go too deep. A lot of the point of that relationship is about nostalgia for simpler times and what might have been. In the movies story itself it could never be what it could have been either.
The real shame was we didn’t see Lana again after 3. Some kind of explanation would have been nice but that’s just not something we saw done in films back then. Superman wasn’t the only offender. We were lucky to get as much as we did about Vicky Vale in Batman Returns.
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Post by atp on Mar 27, 2020 13:49:39 GMT -5
In the novelisation, Clark thinks about starting something with Lana, but remembers what happened in the past when he wanted to be with Lois.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2020 18:27:28 GMT -5
They could have done more with Lana but I don’t really have too many complaints with what we got. They were never going to go as far as they did with Lois in the first two films but I think they were smart not to go too deep. A lot of the point of that relationship is about nostalgia for simpler times and what might have been. In the movies story itself it could never be what it could have been either. The real shame was we didn’t see Lana again after 3. Some kind of explanation would have been nice but that’s just not something we saw done in films back then. Superman wasn’t the only offender. We were lucky to get as much as we did about Vicky Vale in Batman Returns. After SII- they could have chosen to make the the stories geared slightly more towards younger or older audiences. I was disappointed that they chose to make the characterization sillier and superficial, like a tv show. I think that's why I really enjoyed the lean towards more sophistication with the drama with Superman Returns. The relationship was more complicated, as they often are irl. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2020 18:27:50 GMT -5
In the novelisation, Clark thinks about starting something with Lana, but remembers what happened in the past when he wanted to be with Lois. Interesting... how was the novelization overall? |
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Post by atp on Mar 28, 2020 2:26:56 GMT -5
In the novelisation, Clark thinks about starting something with Lana, but remembers what happened in the past when he wanted to be with Lois. Interesting... how was the novelization overall? It was fun to read. It gives insights into what the characters are thinking. But it is very cynical. The author, William Kotzwinkle, has a very cutting style of writing. He also wrote E.T.'s novelisation, and it is the same. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 28, 2020 19:03:25 GMT -5
Interesting... how was the novelization overall? It was fun to read. It gives insights into what the characters are thinking. But it is very cynical. The author, William Kotzwinkle, has a very cutting style of writing. He also wrote E.T.'s novelisation, and it is the same. Cynicism and Superman don't sound like a good match. I know some novelization adapters just take the paycheck and run, but Peter David remarked how much effort he put into trying to flesh out the Batman Forever adaptation- and 'fix' it as much as he could in the novel. |
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Post by Metallo on Apr 4, 2020 11:26:42 GMT -5
Seems like that’s one thing a lot of writers of novelizations try to do since they’d have the space and the time and aren’t as held back by space limitations. Sometimes it feels like grasping at straws but sometimes it actually works well.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 4, 2020 17:05:35 GMT -5
Seems like that’s one thing a lot of writers of novelizations try to do since they’d have the space and the time and aren’t as held back by space limitations. Sometimes it feels like grasping at straws but sometimes it actually works well. Peter David on his blog remarked how at times the screenplay would get a rewrite or change and he would be forced to incorporate that into the novelization... I'm not sure how loose the rules are for each novelization. I do know on attending a comic book adaptation panel in Seattle that some licences are VERY picky and restrictive creatively. So, I don't know- but I do love hearing it when the person adapting it actually treats it as more than just a job. Chris Claremont I think did the novelization for Xmen 2 or 3- still haven't read it yet, but am very curious about it... |
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Post by Metallo on Apr 4, 2020 17:15:09 GMT -5
That’s one of the interesting things about reading the comic book adaptations. Not just script changes but editing changes. novelizations often do their own thing with approval but comic book adaptions usually stick pretty close to the script. It was weird to read the Batman forever comic before I saw the movie. The order was very different. They even used the original final scene which o expected in the movie since I saw an on set photo in a magazine. The final film changed it
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 4, 2020 18:33:01 GMT -5
That’s one of the interesting things about reading the comic book adaptations. Not just script changes but editing changes. novelizations often do their own thing with approval but comic book adaptions usually stick pretty close to the script. It was weird to read the Batman forever comic before I saw the movie. The order was very different. They even used the original final scene which o expected in the movie since I saw an on set photo in a magazine. The final film changed it The most interesting variation I'd heard of was mentioned by Brannon Braga on a "Mad Magazine" parody of Star Trek: First Contact. Apparently the writer and artist got an early version of the script that was greatly different and based their parody on that. I've never seen it, but sounds interesting! |
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Post by Metallo on Apr 5, 2020 14:57:05 GMT -5
Reminds me of all the merch they made for Generations that was inaccurate because they decided to not use certain things like costumes at the last minute. I’d be curious to learn more about that first contact script. I know they had a few different ideas but I don’t really know the details.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 5, 2020 16:03:59 GMT -5
Reminds me of all the merch they made for Generations that was inaccurate because they decided to not use certain things like costumes at the last minute. I’d be curious to learn more about that first contact script. I know they had a few different ideas but I don’t really know the details. Supposedly originally when the went into the 'past', Picard would be on earth & Ryker was the one facing off against the Borg in one of the drafts.... but it's hard to imagine it having as much impact as having Picard face his demons while fighting the Borg. |
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Post by Metallo on Apr 5, 2020 18:02:51 GMT -5
That version I do remember. Stewart wanted that changed because he wanted Picard in on more action since he missed out in the series. Riker usually went on missions and Picard was on the bridge so I guess I’d wanted to correct that. It really started with generations with Riker on the bridge and Picard on the bridge during the space battle. Movie Picard ended up being very different from tv Picard because Stewart wanted to do more physical stuff.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 7, 2020 18:56:08 GMT -5
That version I do remember. Stewart wanted that changed because he wanted Picard in on more action since he missed out in the series. Riker usually went on missions and Picard was on the bridge so I guess I’d wanted to correct that. It really started with generations with Riker on the bridge and Picard on the bridge during the space battle. Movie Picard ended up being very different from tv Picard because Stewart wanted to do more physical stuff. I actually really liked Generations and First Contact- but I argue that if "Insurrection" had had a better script, it might have had better box office & maybe could have retained Jonathan Frakes to direct Nemesis instead of Stuart Baird- who I don't feel made enough of the right choices on it. |
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Post by Metallo on Apr 7, 2020 20:51:43 GMT -5
I think the first two are the best TNG films. Insurrection is the most uninspired of the four. It’s a two part tv episode with more money. Baird was just the wrong guy for Trek. At least that early and with not experience with the franchise. He’s workmanlike much like a lot of Trek tv directors like Rob Bowman or David Carson. If Baird had gotten a few episodes under his belt before doing the movie he could have delivered a decent movie. He just had no knowledge of the franchise and that hurt it.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 8, 2020 3:20:39 GMT -5
I think the first two are the best TNG films. Insurrection is the most uninspired of the four. It’s a two part tv episode with more money. Baird was just the wrong guy for Trek. At least that early and with not experience with the franchise. He’s workmanlike much like a lot of Trek tv directors like Rob Bowman or David Carson. If Baird had gotten a few episodes under his belt before doing the movie he could have delivered a decent movie. He just had no knowledge of the franchise and that hurt it. Agreed... Baird didn't seem to get that the joy from the show came from focusing on the family of characters and their journey- unlike Jonathan Frakes who really hit it out of the park with First Contact. (I forgive him for Insurrection as that had a terrible script but it looks like it was probably as good as it was going to get given the circumstances). |
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