atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823 
|
Post by atp on Jun 15, 2020 11:25:46 GMT -5
June 2013 was already 7 years ago!!!
|
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,226
|
Post by crown on Jun 15, 2020 22:01:15 GMT -5
June 2013 was already 7 years ago!!! Here here my good man. I think I speak for ATP when I say that 7 years ago we truly believed, for the very first time, that a man could fly when we watched the greatest cinematic masterpiece of all time... Man of Steel. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 18, 2020 2:34:13 GMT -5
June 2013 was already 7 years ago!!! I guess it's both scary (and hopefully a bit of a relief) that time passes fast.... |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jun 18, 2020 16:56:19 GMT -5
June 2013 was already 7 years ago!!! It was also recently the 25th anniversary of Batman Forever and the 15th anniversary of Batman Begins. Crazy how time flies. Hopefully the next seven years will help me forget MOS and move on to a better reboot for the big screen that isn’t a disappointing bag of crap. |
|
crown
New Member
Posts: 1,226
|
Post by crown on Jun 19, 2020 5:56:21 GMT -5
MOS is now as old as SR was when it was released in 2013. And just like SR, it never got a sequel!  |
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Jun 19, 2020 8:10:53 GMT -5
🤣😂
How come nobody has identified the Reeve Only People in 7 years?
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 19, 2020 15:16:39 GMT -5
MOS is now as old as SR was when it was released in 2013. And just like SR, it never got a sequel! I'm SO glad that at least SR got a sorta-finish with Crisis, but (to me) it's still too little.... |
|
dejan
New Member
Posts: 850
|
Post by dejan on Jul 16, 2020 10:48:54 GMT -5
I guess you could argue it's almost 10 years old in terms of conception.
Pre-production and casting began in late 2010/early 2011.
It's come and gone and now largely forgotten.
|
|
dejan
New Member
Posts: 850
|
Post by dejan on Jul 16, 2020 11:05:12 GMT -5
June 2013 was already 7 years ago!!! Here here my good man. I think I speak for ATP when I say that 7 years ago we truly believed, for the very first time, that a man could fly when we watched the greatest cinematic masterpiece of all time... Man of Steel. lol You will believe a man can fly....through a building  |
|
dejan
New Member
Posts: 850
|
Post by dejan on Jul 16, 2020 11:09:39 GMT -5
In fact Miss Tescmacher said it best regarding Man Of Steel: "It's slam bam and thank you mam!" www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixgS2qm3AQApparently Valerie fell asleep part way through MOS. Superb. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 16, 2020 13:25:51 GMT -5
It's funny- I thought the billion dollars "The Dark Knight" generated wouild have fast-tracked the "Superman Returns" sequel-
Instead- it pulled it off the track & in chasing trends, WB presumably went to Nolan & Goyer assuming that they had the magic formula to work for Superman.
If Nolan had directed, after seeing TDKR, I don't think it was going to be a slam/dunk that it would have been great... but in an interview, Nolan had said he would not have had Superman kill- so there's at the minimal the idea that the script would have been different under him.
Goyer has great ideas, but often in his work, I feel the darkness and the lack of hope and humor often overtakes it.
He himself has said in a video interview during the Batman Begins years that he was the wrong personality to write Superman-
There are parts to Man of Steel that look visually stunning and there are parts that are exciting- (I still argue that a good fan cut might save a lot)- it definitely feels like a fresh approach.... but if I felt like Lester took the character way too lightly into silliness, I don't think that Snyder/Goyer took it too seriously, as it is that the script never really went to the bright side of humanity for the story they presented, but only the dark side.... and even then, not very deep into it.
I think Snyder has a fantastic eye for visuals & I don't deny he has gifts, but I really feel he and Goyer would have been far better suited to another hero- perhaps Green Lantern.
In any case, MOS goes back at the minimum to highlight Donner's main contribution to Superman--- the humanity,(as Jorel puts it) "the capacity for good", and the heart as the emphasis to the core of the Superman story.
Donner took the love story seriously (I never was in love with the Margot Kidder 'song' in STM- but respect that Donner was so committed that he was definitely wearing his heart on his sleeve bravely with it & respected that) and may have had humor in STM but definitely took the characters seriously and pushed for perfectionism as much as he could.
The problem with MOS is that there are scenes that still make me squirm even if focusing on the 'good'- that doesn't feel like family entertainment (i.e. Supes using his heat vision on Lois and her scream)- nor does it feel like the disturbing parts are really justified (i.e. the callous collateral damage) with something deeper for adults--- The Dark Knight had the right balance & felt squarely for adults and was a smart film with disturbing elements with a delicate touch so it was organic and had a higher purpose.
MOS looks like the Dark Knight, but too many wrong turns (some little, some bigger) to make it end up as something that might feel fresh but off-base for sure.
The odd thing is: I really believe that Zack Snyder is a big comic book fan & was giantly passionate about this film (Not every director cares enough about his product to go all out on the blu-ray/dvd).... but it's a pity that Nolan didn't choose to take a stronger hand or even choose Richard Donner to be executive producer to keep Nolan/Snyder to stay within the lines of who Superman was at times.
If Donner was overseeing MOS- the core would have been maintained and you'd have had a great looking movie with a great heart. Not a great looking movie with a cold one.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 16, 2020 14:26:35 GMT -5
It's funny- I thought the billion dollars "The Dark Knight" generated wouild have fast-tracked the "Superman Returns" sequel- Instead- it pulled it off the track & in chasing trends, WB presumably went to Nolan & Goyer assuming that they had the magic formula to work for Superman. If Nolan had directed, after seeing TDKR, I don't think it was going to be a slam/dunk that it would have been great... but in an interview, Nolan had said he would not have had Superman kill- so there's at the minimal the idea that the script would have been different under him. Goyer has great ideas, but often in his work, I feel the darkness and the lack of hope and humor often overtakes it. He himself has said in a video interview during the Batman Begins years that he was the wrong personality to write Superman- There are parts to Man of Steel that look visually stunning and there are parts that are exciting- (I still argue that a good fan cut might save a lot)- it definitely feels like a fresh approach.... but if I felt like Lester took the character way too lightly into silliness, I don't think that Snyder/Goyer took it too seriously, as it is that the script never really went to the bright side of humanity for the story they presented, but only the dark side.... and even then, not very deep into it. I think Snyder has a fantastic eye for visuals & I don't deny he has gifts, but I really feel he and Goyer would have been far better suited to another hero- perhaps Green Lantern. In any case, MOS goes back at the minimum to highlight Donner's main contribution to Superman--- the humanity,(as Jorel puts it) "the capacity for good", and the heart as the emphasis to the core of the Superman story. Donner took the love story seriously (I never was in love with the Margot Kidder 'song' in STM- but respect that Donner was so committed that he was definitely wearing his heart on his sleeve bravely with it & respected that) and may have had humor in STM but definitely took the characters seriously and pushed for perfectionism as much as he could. The problem with MOS is that there are scenes that still make me squirm even if focusing on the 'good'- that doesn't feel like family entertainment (i.e. Supes using his heat vision on Lois and her scream)- nor does it feel like the disturbing parts are really justified (i.e. the callous collateral damage) with something deeper for adults--- The Dark Knight had the right balance & felt squarely for adults and was a smart film with disturbing elements with a delicate touch so it was organic and had a higher purpose. MOS looks like the Dark Knight, but too many wrong turns (some little, some bigger) to make it end up as something that might feel fresh but off-base for sure. The odd thing is: I really believe that Zack Snyder is a big comic book fan & was giantly passionate about this film (Not every director cares enough about his product to go all out on the blu-ray/dvd).... but it's a pity that Nolan didn't choose to take a stronger hand or even choose Richard Donner to be executive producer to keep Nolan/Snyder to stay within the lines of who Superman was at times. If Donner was overseeing MOS- the core would have been maintained and you'd have had a great looking movie with a great heart. Not a great looking movie with a cold one. If anything the success of TDK was the nail in the coffin for the Superman Returns sequel. It was seen as modern and artistic and adult cinema while still being exciting. They wanted more movies to be like Dark Knight thus we got Nolan and Goyer involved with a Superman reboot. It’s a mistake they’re still paying for. |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 16, 2020 14:35:46 GMT -5
In fact Miss Tescmacher said it best regarding Man Of Steel: "It's slam bam and thank you mam!" www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixgS2qm3AQApparently Valerie fell asleep part way through MOS. Superb. Dean Cain fell asleep during Batman V Superman. Snyder’s DC movies have this uncanny ability to have huge action set pieces and incredibly looking cgi special effects...yet somehow be dull and boring as heck at the same time. I’ve never seen anything quite like it. We have all know what the problem is but the fact that they (Snyder’s team) don’t is hilarious. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 16, 2020 15:55:14 GMT -5
In fact Miss Tescmacher said it best regarding Man Of Steel: "It's slam bam and thank you mam!" www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixgS2qm3AQApparently Valerie fell asleep part way through MOS. Superb. Dean Cain fell asleep during Batman V Superman. Snyder’s DC movies have this uncanny ability to have huge action set pieces and incredibly looking cgi special effects...yet somehow be dull and boring as heck at the same time. I’ve never seen anything quite like it. We have all know what the problem is but the fact that they (Snyder’s team) don’t is hilarious. I try not to 'demonize' Snyder- he seems like a nice guy and his cast seems to love him as a person, but when he makes statements like how much fun it is to kill off a character like Jimmy Olsen on camera.... not gaining points by saying that imo... |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 16, 2020 19:34:31 GMT -5
It’s nothing personal but that shows that he either doesn’t get it or has outright contempt for the traditions and status quo of the source material. Like he thinks it’s all stupid unless it’s dark and gritty. He even wanted D!ck Grayson to be the dead robin in bvs.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 2:48:35 GMT -5
It’s nothing personal but that shows that he either doesn’t get it or has outright contempt for the traditions and status quo of the source material. Like he thinks it’s all stupid unless it’s dark and gritty. He even wanted D!ck Grayson to be the dead robin in bvs. Agreed 100%. That's the same irritation I had with Lester's work on SII- the feeling that he felt taking the Superman story seriously was beneath him.... being a comics fan at the time, that's what REALLY irked me and probably what made me take it almost personally. (I was a comics fan at a time where it was anything but cool to be so). At the same time- what confounds me is that he does love comics and the movie he made.... and from the forum split, there were other fans who also love comics and what he did in MOS--- so.... (shrug) it all comes back to the idea that art is subjective. Having said that, I hope that with his point of view that Snyder won't be in charge of guiding the DCEU again - but I have a feeling that WB won't give Snyder unlimited reign like before, nor would Snyder trust it if they did. |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2020 8:00:20 GMT -5
Hamada has made them too much money to ever take a backseat to Snyder. He (And Berg and Johns) turned it around and gave WB bigger hits than Snyder did. The Snyder cut would have to do mind meltingly colossal business for that to happen. I’m talking something incredible.
Snyder likes comics but only superficially and only certain ones.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 17:16:48 GMT -5
Hamada has made them too much money to ever take a backseat to Snyder. He (And Berg and Johns) turned it around and gave WB bigger hits than Snyder did. The Snyder cut would have to do mind meltingly colossal business for that to happen. I’m talking something incredible. Snyder likes comics but only superficially and only certain ones. I think he is a big comics fanboy, but judging from his "Sucker Punch" where he had total creative control.... and then his choices on what to adapt in Watchmen & MOS, I think he's a far better visualist than storyteller imo. He emphasizes what I feel are the wrong things in both adaptations and for his original work, some might really love Sucker Punch it's feels very 'off' as a story with big ambitions- but, that's my opinion as others love it. Might be great as a neighbor in real life, but not someone who I would wish as being in charge of some of the characters that I have/had strong feelings about.... |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2020 17:28:34 GMT -5
That’s why I said only superficially. He's said he didn’t like traditional comics but was more into darker more violent stuff like Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. When Snyder talks about why he likes those stories it’s not because of the depth or intelligent commentary on things in the real world.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 17:36:00 GMT -5
That’s why I said only superficially. He's said he didn’t like traditional comics but was more into darker more violent stuff like Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. When Snyder talks about why he likes those stories it’s not because of the depth or intelligent commentary on things in the real world. In a perfect world, perhaps Snyder's best fit is as a cinematographer or art director (imo) .... |
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2020 17:38:33 GMT -5
It’s a shame he’ll never admit that. I get chasing your dream but storytelling isn’t his strength.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 17:53:51 GMT -5
It’s a shame he’ll never admit that. I get chasing your dream but storytelling isn’t his strength. I have two minds on that- On one hand, I have a number of creative friends who are great people that I want to support .... but sometimes their creative output seems like something I wouldn't necessarily support if I didn't care about them... In other words, if Zack was my best friend as a human being, I'm pretty sure I would have radio silence on how I feel about his work and just tell him maybe/maybe not in private, if I thought it would help.... On the other hand, maybe my stuff is less than great, too--- and am uncertain how much truth I could handle from friends before it just becomes toxic personally- but if I see creating anything as a source of joy, so I do wonder if self-deception (to a degree) is just necessary if you want to keep on creating. In other words, my stuff could be 'crap' too- but I don't want to stop doing it necessarily even if the world hated it, so... I guess it makes me a bit of a hypocrite, admittedly.... (shrug) |
|
dejan
New Member
Posts: 850
|
Post by dejan on Jul 18, 2020 5:40:46 GMT -5
Metallo and CAM Snyder is a bit of a contradiction He said that whilst watching STM in 1978 as a 12 year old he felt betrayed when Reeve smiled at the camera. It's like he has this obsession with wanting to experience(and create) fantasy as real to life as possible. But there is the problem....all his stuff is as far removed from reality as you can get...….even though he desperately wants to depict that real life reality. Prior to MOS's release there was so much hoopla on how this flick would try and simulate how people would react to the presense of a supernatural being. And yet....what did we get....no f***ing reaction from the population at all.....just people gormlessly staring on like zombies.....heck having watched dawn Of The Dead a couple of times over the last few days.....the zombies in that flick have more character than the people looking on as Supe's performs superfeats in MOS. One example being at the end when Jenny Olsen mutters: "He saved us" …….with all the emotion of a rock. Compare that to the kids on the bus in STM: "Hey it's Superman!"
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 17,075
|
Post by Metallo on Jul 18, 2020 12:14:53 GMT -5
Snyder’s a cynical style over substance objectivist. It’s as simple as that. He doesn’t want real life either. He just wants the harsher more tragic elements of real life without all the other stuff. And he wants it all in a stylized film presentation that’s far from realistic.
No contradictions. All the more positive elements he talks about is him simply giving lip service. You’re right that the films don’t deliver on what they promise. Again that’s because it was all lip service.
|
|
atp
New Member
Resident Troll
Posts: 6,823
|
Post by atp on Jul 18, 2020 13:23:26 GMT -5
Metallo and CAM Snyder is a bit of a contradiction He said that whilst watching STM in 1978 as a 12 year old he felt betrayed when Reeve smiled at the camera. It's like he has this obsession with wanting to experience(and create) fantasy as real to life as possible. But there is the problem....all his stuff is as far removed from reality as you can get...….even though he desperately wants to depict that real life reality. Prior to MOS's release there was so much hoopla on how this flick would try and simulate how people would react to the presense of a supernatural being. And yet....what did we get....no f***ing reaction from the population at all.....just people gormlessly staring on like zombies.....heck having watched dawn Of The Dead a couple of times over the last few days.....the zombies in that flick have more character than the people looking on as Supe's performs superfeats in MOS. One example being at the end when Jenny Olsen mutters: "He saved us" …….with all the emotion of a rock. Compare that to the kids on the bus in STM: "Hey it's Superman!" How did Jenny even know to say, "He saved us" when nobody saw it happen. He was battling the world engine in the Indian Ocean! |
|
