Finally watching Smallville properly

[EnriqueH]

Back in the day when it was on the air, I watched an episode here and there and liked it. Being in my mid 20s, I didn’t have cable or TV.

So I took advantage of being home and saw seasons 1 and I just finished Rosetta.

Man, I like this show.

I remember several members ragging on it, but I’m enjoying the performances and character development.

Rosenbaum might be the best onscreen Luthor yet. Really like Tom Welling.

Only things that could be better that seem improved upon in Season 2 is the “villain of the week” thing.

But overall, enjoyable.

[atp]

Never seen it either.
I will try watch it too.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 9, 2020 12:04:53 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Back in the day when it was on the air, I watched an episode here and there and liked it. Being in my mid 20s, I didn’t have cable or TV.

So I took advantage of being home and saw seasons 1 and I just finished Rosetta.

Man, I like this show.

I remember several members ragging on it, but I’m enjoying the performances and character development.

Rosenbaum might be the best onscreen Luthor yet. Really like Tom Welling.

Only things that could be better that seem improved upon in Season 2 is the “villain of the week” thing.

But overall, enjoyable.

(Edited/updated because I realize my first reply seemed way more negative than intended and didn't really mention the amount of good stuff)

In a number of ways, Smallville was a breakthrough show.

I really was suprisingly impressed with the first season-
When the changes showed up-
(1) No tights?
(2) Luthor as Clark's bff??? Wtf?
(3) Youngish Kent family-

I was thinking: how could this be any good? How could this even work?

But it kind of did! (imo)
Welling & Rosenbaum were great in their roles -as well as- (who could have known?) John Schneider as Pa Kent- (and great interesting twists on Clark's ship also bringing a hailstorm of kryptonite--- (actually feels like it has a logic to it, though I know nothing about physics and space travel)....

Much of the supporting cast was also great- putting the behind the scenes criminal stuff aside- Alison Mack was fantastic in the show, as well as Jon Glover as Lex's Dad, Annette O'Toole as ma kent (though it takes a bit to get used to Lana playing mom). The stuff with the compared dads was strong, too.... there were a few really jaw-droppingly good episodes I should mention.


The downsides though i felt like as good as some character development was--- it would often hit a wall & the amnesia spells and having Lana sleep with everyone just bugged me too much I think. Things just kind of went in circles for the subsequent seasons until season 9 & 10 ... speaking of which, I really enjoyed, perhaps not coincidentally with one of the great Battlestar Galactica writers joining the team. It was neat that they thought out of the box, a lot of great ideas, great casting, but I still think that one giant miniseries might have been the best way to go instead of ten seasons.

[Metallo]

Watched it for a while when it started. Pretty much gave up on it by season 4 but would occasionally check out new episodes that piqued my interest somehow. Usually it was even more garbage than I remembered. Wanted to love the JSA episode but even by Smallville standards it was pretty hokey. Did check back in for the series finale and I could imagine how disappointed the long time fans were. They made it way more complicated than it needed to be even if you ignore Wellings stubbornness over putting on the costume.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 16, 2020 14:18:32 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Watched it for a while when it started. Pretty much gave up on it by season 4 but would occasionally check out new episodes that piqued my interest somehow. Usually it was even more garbage than I remembered. Wanted to love the JSA episode but even by Smallville standards it was pretty hokey. Did check back in for the series finale and I could imagine how disappointed the long time fans were. They made it way more complicated than it needed to be even if you ignore Wellings stubbornness over putting on the costume.

If someone could dice and splice the best of the best material from all ten seasons and edit into one fantastic season, I'd definitely buy it.

I can't deny that there was great stuff there, but for whatever reason, much of it didn't move anywhere- or if it did, the characters would evolve then devolve back to the same spot more often than not.

Still- my feeling is that they were still nervous about doing a 'real' superhero tv show--- so the glimmers and spots where we actually saw other DC characters pop up on the show (LSH was easily my favorite, even with the jackets)- was a real highlight because before the Marvel machine and definitely before the Berlianti machine exploded with superhero tv shows... who knew when/where superhero live action material would become extinct?

Anyhow, still have all the seasons- now and then I consider hunting down the giant box set used- but I also wonder if all the bonus material of that set is already available on youtube by now...

Would be interesting to see a full reunion show- and more than a little weird considering the crazy situations with some of the actors since then... (to say the least)

[Metallo]

I agree. I think the show ran a good five years longer than it should have. If they could’ve cut out the bad and kept the good and condensed it down to focus on the main goal of the show it would have been much better. The show was appealing to that WB teen audience and I get that but they show got sidetracked in its own pointless filler to kill time. It was trying to be the teen angst/models inc version of X-Files early on but without the better writing.

The show morphed once they graduated and was even more filler just to stay on the air when they should have done what Enterprise did in its fourth season and gotten right to business: getting us from Clark out of school to becoming Superman. Because they were doing what they could to fill episode orders the show couldn’t even keep its own continuity straight. It’s how they got sidetracked and we got the Jimmy Olsen Problem was as well as conflicting takes on Kat Grant. I also remember there being some inconsistencies with the Veritas society that more dedicated fans than me have pointed out far better.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 16, 2020 19:43:01 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I agree. I think the show ran a good five years longer than it should have. If they could’ve cut out the bad and kept the good and condensed it down to focus on the main goal of the show it would have been much better. The show was appealing to that WB teen audience and I get that but they show got sidetracked in its own pointless filler to kill time. It was trying to be the teen angst/models inc version of X-Files early on but without the better writing.

The show morphed once they graduated and was even more filler just to stay on the air when they should have done what Enterprise did in its fourth season and gotten right to business: getting us from Clark out of school to becoming Superman. Because they were doing what they could to fill episode orders the show couldn’t even keep its own continuity straight. It’s how they got sidetracked and we got the Jimmy Olsen Problem was as well as conflicting takes on Kat Grant. I also remember there being some inconsistencies with the Veritas society that more dedicated fans than me have pointed out far better.

One thing that has always mystified me is whether or not WB/DC let the creators/showrunners do as they wished, or if there were guidelines that derailed or diluted any ideas.

It had some great episodes that made my jaw drop- so with that I realized that there was great talent at hand, so what (If any) factors behind the scenes affected the quality during its run?

[Metallo]

They had control within reason but there were clearly certain things they weren’t allowed to do. Not being allowed to use Bruce Wayne was proof of that. Same with other majors characters like Wonder Woman. Anything that clashed with their plans outside of Superman were nixed and I’m guessing they couldn’t do certain things with him either.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 17, 2020 8:02:55 GMT -5 Metallo said:

They had control within reason but there were clearly certain things they weren’t allowed to do. Not being allowed to use Bruce Wayne was proof of that. Same with other majors characters like Wonder Woman. Anything that clashed with their plans outside of Superman were nixed and I’m guessing they couldn’t do certain things with him either.

In a perfect world, the showrunners would have had a 'five year plan' like JMS had for Babylon 5--- instead, not knowing each year if it would be renewed meant that they could make plans for a next season that would go far....but not TOO far so that there would be enough material in case it was renewed. (I got this from the panel for "Dexter" at the Paley center show dvd)-

Also.... since they never (until the final season) KNEW it was a ten-year ride--- how could they plan properly for it, if it 'had' to end with Welling (almost) wearing a costume?

In some ways, they did solve the part of having an ensemble not being interesting enough to have solo stories by later having more interesting supporting characters so that it didn't all revolve around Clark and Lex - Hartley as Arrow I definitely welcomed (and still feel he's the best Green Arrow casted) as a regular- as well as Lois Lane (perfectly cast imo)- but early on... who wanted solo stories with Pete Ross, Lana Lang, and Ma/Pa Kent regardless of who was cast? (Though if Lana had become the Insect Queen in full costume via the comics, it would have been more fun/interesting)....

Anyhow- I do want to revisit the whole series one day & make a note of the best. There is/are good stuff in it, but in looking back, it had to have had a LOT of inherent creative restrictions if it wanted to (sortof) fit continuity... (though I do like that it's an 'alternate-verse' via Crisis decades later)...

[Metallo]

A lot of those early characters were dead weight. It’s obvious they really didn’t have anything for characters like Pete Ross to do and Whitney was clearly not a long term character. Even Lana wasn’t particularly interesting. It’s why they did all that crazy stuff with her like the witch powers. Then there’s the mystical cave stuff that they just sort of moved on from.

The whole problem with Smallville is it was never even conceived to be what it ended up being. Smallville actually started its life as a Young Bruce Wayne series. When WB decided not to do it they reskinned the concept for Clark Kent. Young Bruce’s teenage years and early 20s have a lot more to mine from the source material than young Clark’s. That’s why Smallville had so much filler and started off as a teen version of X-Files lite. They had to make it more interesting.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jul 17, 2020 17:36:31 GMT -5 Metallo said:

A lot of those early characters were dead weight. It’s obvious they really didn’t have anything for characters like Pete Rose to do and Whitney was clearly not a long term character. Even Lana wasn’t particularly interesting. It’s why they did all that crazy stuff with her like the witch powers. Then there’s the mystical cave stuff that they just sort of moved on from.

The whole problem with Smallville is it was never even conceived to be what it ended up being. Smallville actually started its life as a Young Bruce Wayne series. When WB decided not to do it they reskinned the concept for Clark Kent. Young Bruce’s teenage years and early 20s have a lot more to mine from the source material than young Clark’s. That’s why Smallville had so much filler and started off as a teen version of X-Files life. They had to make it more interesting.

Agreed... I actually read the pilot for the young Bruce Wayne and it was pretty good! (Some of which got cannibalized by Gothem)-

Ironically, I did catch the 'competing' show Roswell that was a critics' darling that struggled next to Smallville- and it's not a perfect show, but was much better- with the showrunner of the amazing "Friday Night Lights" and Ronald D. Moore!

(The reboot is HORRIBLE btw)--- but then again, Roswell I'm sure had MUCH more freedom to do as it wished over Smallville. So, there is that...

[EnriqueH]

Didn’t really the replies too much (sorry, don’t want to come across spoilers), but I’m still enjoying the show and I’m at the end of season 6.

I wasn’t sure about bringing Zod and Lois in but I’m going with it and I’m really enjoying it. In a way, it all makes sense.

Michael Rosenbaum is a great Luthor and his fall is very well handled and acted. Likewise, Tom Welling is great as a young Clark.

Surprised how much I’m enjoying Chloe Sullivan, particularly in later seasons. She kinda reminds me a little of Ahsoka Tano in that she started off a little annoying and has progressed into a likeable character.

Lionel Luthor, amazing.

[crazy_asian_man]

Aug 4, 2020 10:36:42 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Didn’t really the replies too much (sorry, don’t want to come across spoilers), but I’m still enjoying the show and I’m at the end of season 6.

I wasn’t sure about bringing Zod and Lois in but I’m going with it and I’m really enjoying it. In a way, it all makes sense.

Michael Rosenbaum is a great Luthor and his fall is very well handled and acted. Likewise, Tom Welling is great as a young Clark.

Surprised how much I’m enjoying Chloe Sullivan, particularly in later seasons. She kinda reminds me a little of Ahsoka Tano in that she started off a little annoying and has progressed into a likeable character.

Lionel Luthor, amazing.

Very cool Enrique!

Would love to hear a rough assessment (or rating) of each season by the time you finish, if up for it.

There are a lot of great components to Smallville- not the least of which is a great cast.... but like most tv shows, there really is a lot of 'filler'.

I get that (from interviews) that there were a lot of restrictions from DC that might not have helped - and being a 'prequel' meant constantly having to back off from ever really getting to be 'Superman'--- until the very last episode.... so given that, it's pretty amazing that they were able to do as many stories as they had- with one hand creatively tied behind their back.

The other 'teen' scifi shows that became critical successes like Roswell (with Ronald D. Moore by season 3 I think) and Buffy didn't have those restrictions, (both of which were pretty good btw) and could pretty much go anywhere--- So I tip my hat at the writers who were able to come up with good episodes despite the restrictions (Seasons 1, 9 & 10 I think were the best)-

It would have been nice if it felt like there was a five-year (or ten year) plan for Smallville- but understandably even the showrunners didn't know season to season if it would be picked up. Would be awesome if there a 'best of' each season to be able to revisit.

On another note, it's great to see Rosenbaum and Welling on panels- Rosenbaum makes almost any panel entertaining and fun & it's great to see the genuine love the cast members have for each other.

[Metallo]

If only Welling would pull the stick out of his @ss when it comes to playing Superman. Nearly years later its still lodged in there. Not that I care but his reasoning for not doing it ever was bs.

[crazy_asian_man]

Aug 4, 2020 14:38:31 GMT -5 Metallo said:

If only Welling would pull the stick out of his @ss when it comes to playing Superman. Nearly years later its still lodged in there. Not that I care but his reasoning for not doing it ever was bs.

Agreed... but.... at least he was willing to do the Crisis crossover & it's nice to see a star where nobody has anything negative to say about the time shooting with said star....

[EnriqueH]

Tom Welling was an amazing Clark/Superboy. You had the character going through growing pains but it still FELT like Superman. His values were at his core.

[crazy_asian_man]

Aug 5, 2020 7:14:38 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Tom Welling was an amazing Clark/Superboy. You had the character going through growing pains but it still FELT like Superman. His values were at his core.

Agreed... I just wish that they had planned things better overall storywise. When a series goes on and on without a clear purpose in mind, a lot of 'filler' seems inevitable for a series ...

[EnriqueH]

You know, I gotta say I’ve been really enjoying the series. There have been times that it feels like a slow build, but I like that.

[EnriqueH]

Gotta day that Erica Durance is my favorite Lois. At first, I was concerned that maybe they were bringing her into the story too early, but wow. Great performance. I think she captures Lois perfectly.

Rosenbaum is also my favorite Lex. Hackman May have the charm and charisma but Rosenbaum brings a human Lex and naturally slow burns into a truly despicable character.

The show also introduces Chloe Sullivan and Lionel Luthor and turned them into relentlessly watchable characters.

[crazy_asian_man]

Aug 8, 2020 11:43:08 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Gotta day that Erica Durance is my favorite Lois. At first, I was concerned that maybe they were bringing her into the story too early, but wow. Great performance. I think she captures Lois perfectly.

Rosenbaum is also my favorite Lex. Hackman May have the charm and charisma but Rosenbaum brings a human Lex and naturally slow burns into a truly despicable character.

The show also introduces Chloe Sullivan and Lionel Luthor and turned them into relentlessly watchable characters.

Hackman brought comedy and energy - that I didn't like in the first part but thought was perfect to play off (what was supposed to be) the ultra-serious Phantom Zone criminals. He's a saucy plate of hunky man with ridiculous petty schemes- but it worked perfectly to setup part II thouught. In SIV, I thought it was a smart way to use Donner's Lex- to be sort of the 'middleman' to a bigger evil.

With Singer's rewrite/reboot- Spacey is a great actor, but I just don't think that the 'new' Lex was really that interesting on its own.... but since it was a quasi-sequel, I get how Singer wanted to make it sort of fit with what had gone on before.

Rosenbaum is the best Lex imo - the writing and his performance just felt so authentic (though I haven't seen all the episodes still I admit- so the caveat is the ones I've seen)-
The main nerve that I think gets hit is the idea of how both Clark and Lex had been shaped by the relationship of their respective fathers.

Erica Durance's Lois is fantastic. The Lana/Clark stuff wasn't bad in the beginning, but it just went WAYYYY too far from the comics for me to accept.(Falling for Lex / having powers?)

[EnriqueH]

About to start season 8 finale.

Complaints? The transition from Smallville high to college to Metropolis didn’t seem as seamless. Minor hiccup, but I noticed it.

The Lana stuff got weird, but I like that the show took chances and changed things up from the comics. At the same time, I was relieved when Lana walked off the show for the last time.

Same with Doomsday, I don’t like the Hulkish vibe I get from him, but again, I respect the changes/modifications from the comics. I still haven’t seen that storyline end, so to be continued. Sam Witwer was definitely a welcome addition to the cast in season 8, from an actors perspective. Continue to love Phil Morris as Martian Manhunter and Justin Hartley as Green Arrow.

Definitely do NOT care for the Tess character though. I do miss Lex and Lionel.

Overall, love the show.

[EnriqueH]

Doomsday finale was disappointing. The big battle didn’t come. Huge build up, but the battle was over fast. So far, the only disappointing season finale.

[booshman]

Aug 19, 2020 10:55:14 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Doomsday finale was disappointing. The big battle didn’t come. Huge build up, but the battle was over fast. So far, the only disappointing season finale.

I haven't been back to watch the later seasons since they were originally on, so a lot of the details I forget, but man that was a disappointing finale. Such build up to nothing. I'd be prepared for more of that going forward.

[EnriqueH]

Just finished Smallville.

Wow, what a ride.

I absolutely loved it. After 10 seasons, I felt really sad to see it end. When you invest this much time, you start to feel like you’re friends with these characters and don’t want to say goodbye.

The show totally gets Superman and what he’s about. Whatever flaws you may feel the show had, that’s probably the best compliment I can give it. It’s easily my favorite Superman show.

That’s not to say it was without flaws: (spoilers ahead)


for example, I thought the way they handled Lex following season 7 was strange. It just felt weird. I kept waiting for him to come back but he didn’t until the finale. Around season 9, I began to suspect that Michael Rosenbsum left the show and the writers were trying to find a way around that. I didn’t look it up until after the finale Because I wanted to be spoiler free and it turns out that Rosenbaum did leave the show on purpose as a regular, so going from a Lexcentric show to him disappearing was kinda jarring. But seasons 8-10 were still awesome overall. Same goes for Lana getting superpowers. I was happy Clark and Lana had time as a couple but it did feel like it was veering into a weird vibe when Lana made her exit. Kristin Kreuk was great as Lana though and it’s not her fault that some of the story did go into some strange places. I appreciated that it was ballsy though because it did keep hooked and wondering where it would go.

The other nitpick was when we got to Metropolis, much of it looked like an outdoor set. Smallville felt real and natural but Metropolis somehow more confined.

The cast was amazing.

Erica Durence is my favorite Lois, period. John Schneider and Annette Oriole my favorite Kents. Rosenbaum is my favorite Luthor. Chloe Sullivan was kinda like Ahsoka Tano in Clone Wars: started off mildly annoying but she “grew up” to be a valued character. Green Arrow, awesome. Michael McKean, though he made only a couple of appearances, is my favorite Perry. Shawn Ashmore was great as Jimmy though McClure is my favorite.

Lionel Luthor. Where do I begin? You can tell this character was a minor supporting role but John Glover was so deliciously good in the role that you can tell the writers were like “Screw everything, we gotta involve this guy.”

The show’s General Zod was “good”. Not amazing but good. He doesn’t touch Terence Stamp, but he did a solid job.

The only character I didn’t care for was Tess Mercer, who kinda seemed like “Dark Chloe”. Eventually, I did warm up to her slightly but I can’t say that she was an amazing character. However, the show had enough great supporting characters that I could easily give Tess Mercer a pass.

And there’s Tom Welling. Without him anchoring the show, it would’ve flopped creatively. Loved his performance. It is he, not Routh or Cavill, that embodied Clark and sold the show. He was a decent human being with growing pains who later tried to harmonize his human and Kryptonian heritage. Whereas Reece’s Superman is who we want to be when we grow up, Welling’s is on our level. He’s relatable. His trials are our trials. I haven’t seen Tyler Holchein yet but Welling is the best actor to play Superman in the 21 century. BY FAR.

And for fans of the Reeve series, there’s plenty of nice homages and nods sprinkled throughout.

I’m amazed the quality of the show sustained such a high entetainment value and good writing for 10 years.

[crazy_asian_man]

Aug 27, 2020 8:35:52 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

Just finished Smallville.

Wow, what a ride.

I absolutely loved it. After 10 seasons, I felt really sad to see it end. When you invest this much time, you start to feel like you’re friends with these characters and don’t want to say goodbye.

The show totally gets Superman and what he’s about. Whatever flaws you may feel the show had, that’s probably the best compliment I can give it. It’s easily my favorite Superman show.

That’s not to say it was without flaws: (spoilers ahead)


for example, I thought the way they handled Lex following season 7 was strange. It just felt weird. I kept waiting for him to come back but he didn’t until the finale. Around season 9, I began to suspect that Michael Rosenbsum left the show and the writers were trying to find a way around that. I didn’t look it up until after the finale Because I wanted to be spoiler free and it turns out that Rosenbaum did leave the show on purpose as a regular, so going from a Lexcentric show to him disappearing was kinda jarring. But seasons 8-10 were still awesome overall. Same goes for Lana getting superpowers. I was happy Clark and Lana had time as a couple but it did feel like it was veering into a weird vibe when Lana made her exit. Kristin Kreuk was great as Lana though and it’s not her fault that some of the story did go into some strange places. I appreciated that it was ballsy though because it did keep hooked and wondering where it would go.

The other nitpick was when we got to Metropolis, much of it looked like an outdoor set. Smallville felt real and natural but Metropolis somehow more confined.

The cast was amazing.

Erica Durence is my favorite Lois, period. John Schneider and Annette Oriole my favorite Kents. Rosenbaum is my favorite Luthor. Chloe Sullivan was kinda like Ahsoka Tano in Clone Wars: started off mildly annoying but she “grew up” to be a valued character. Green Arrow, awesome. Michael McKean, though he made only a couple of appearances, is my favorite Perry. Shawn Ashmore was great as Jimmy though McClure is my favorite.

Lionel Luthor. Where do I begin? You can tell this character was a minor supporting role but John Glover was so deliciously good in the role that you can tell the writers were like “Screw everything, we gotta involve this guy.”

The show’s General Zod was “good”. Not amazing but good. He doesn’t touch Terence Stamp, but he did a solid job.

The only character I didn’t care for was Tess Mercer, who kinda seemed like “Dark Chloe”. Eventually, I did warm up to her slightly but I can’t say that she was an amazing character. However, the show had enough great supporting characters that I could easily give Tess Mercer a pass.

And there’s Tom Welling. Without him anchoring the show, it would’ve flopped creatively. Loved his performance. It is he, not Routh or Cavill, that embodied Clark and sold the show. He was a decent human being with growing pains who later tried to harmonize his human and Kryptonian heritage. Whereas Reece’s Superman is who we want to be when we grow up, Welling’s is on our level. He’s relatable. His trials are our trials. I haven’t seen Tyler Holchein yet but Welling is the best actor to play Superman in the 21 century. BY FAR.

And for fans of the Reeve series, there’s plenty of nice homages and nods sprinkled throughout.

I’m amazed the quality of the show sustained such a high entetainment value and good writing for 10 years.

Great review Enrigue!

I agree with you mostly on the actors- I'm glad that the writers knew how good Glover was and kept him around. If curious, there's a great interview/dialogue between Rosenbaum and John GLover on his radio podcast "inside of you".

I'm watching a series adaptation of a couple of novels- which is all 'meat' and no filler--- but in watching a panel with a tv showrunner, he explained how a series that doesn't know how long it's going to be renewed for doesn't 'give away all the goods' season to season so that there's more that they can do--- but without knowing how many seasons will be greenlit, how many actors will return once their contracts run out, down to (believe it or not) exchange rates on currency so that they know what a budget can cover if shot in a different territory--- so in that context, understandable if there is a lot of filler on 'regular' tv shows.

Also while it made my jaw drop a bit on the constraints of tv writing.... adding to that- having to have approval by a parent entity (WB/DC) probably doesn't make the creative flow any easier.

If a series knew ahead of time how many seasons it was going to be able to have, how long actors would commit to a series, etc.---- I can't help but wonder how much better storylines would be if they had that knowledge prior to writing and filming. As the structure is now, with going season to season and not really knowing if it's the last season.... It's great if there are any fantastic episodes, let alone fantastic seasons.

That's sort of why I'm so critical for Netflix series that don't have to do 20-22 episodes. With a run of 10-13, one would think that there's less pressure and worries- but then again, I give the caveat that I've never worked in television- Netflix or otherwise, so there could be other factors, but still....