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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 13, 2020 13:57:53 GMT -5
With new fan cuts of STM and SII that still seem to be happening to this day (cool!!!)...
Was curious & thinking:
What versions of STM and SII are your 'go to's' when you need a pickup?
For me:
* Originally, it was STM theatrical---
But now I'd have to say that the three hour is the one I go to. While there are bits that drive me a little nuts and I would have liked to have seen stay edited out, the good stuff is so good that it's the main one I see.
The 2nd choice is the theatrical.
* For SII-
The international extended tv cut- though I fast forward through much of the more annoying Lester parts that underwhelm or flat out bother me-
(Most of it is fine but the killer personally has always been the metro battle with what felt like an extremely long section of visual gags when Zod & company are using their breath to blow everything down)
Unlike the RDC- the international feels like a complete film, but with a generous amount of rare Donner scenes that were cut out of both versions I thought.
Second would be the theatrical (sad to say as a Donner fan - the RDC is just too incomplete and the theatrical at least tries to bring back other memories around the time frame.)
Other thoughts?
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 14, 2020 14:50:04 GMT -5
delete;
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 16, 2020 14:40:07 GMT -5
It’s still the theatrical cuts for both. I like the extended/alternate cuts but the pacing of STM is perfect and as good as parts of the Donner cut are I still have a nostalgic love for certain things in the Lester version of II.
On the other hand I prefer the extended tv cuts of III and IV and the international cut of Supergirl. I’ve still got the US version of Supergirl on vhs somewhere and they cut it down waaaaay too much to the point that they made the film even worse.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 16, 2020 15:51:18 GMT -5
It’s still the theatrical cuts for both. I like the extended/alternate cuts but the pacing of STM is perfect and as good as parts of the Donner cut are I still have a nostalgic love for certain things in the Lester version of II. On the other hand I prefer the extended tv cuts of III and IV and the international cut of Supergirl. I’ve still got the US version of Supergirl on vhs somewhere and they cut it down waaaaay too much to the point that they made the film even worse. For SIV and Supergirl- while they're both messes, Reeve and Slater make it worth the effort to sit through. I remember buying the Supergirl script from a comic convention before the movie came out, with Superman having a pretty substantial part. The script was ok, nothing great, but still looked forward to a film that could go back to the greatness of STM quality-wise. To hear that Reeve pulled out at the last minute, though- With the script in mind- It's hard to envision a rewrite that would salvage everything already set up by that time I assume (locations, sets, etc.)- The result with the painfully inane subplot of Supergirl adopting the new identity at the all-girls school I guess was their script 'solution' without a Superman/Clark around (I guess it was too soon to recast Superman if they were hoping to leave the door open for Reeve back as Supes for a later time)- But, anyhow- the bit on Krypton & Phantom zone is fun for the art direction & performances - but the flying scenes and Slater in the classic Supergirl costume giving it her all is what makes me put in on the dvd shelf. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 16, 2020 19:31:24 GMT -5
It would have been insane to recast Reeve in the same continuity especially in a film coming out a year after III so I’m glad they didn’t do that. There wasn’t really any strong solution without him if they were loaning to use Superman. Even if they had gotten him we might have had a better movie but it still very easily could have bombed. Dino De Laurentiis tried the same thing with Schwarzenegger and Red Sonja a year later we know how that turned out.
Supergirl could have been a damn good movie but the entire thing felt misguided from the start. Not only were they making it for the wrong reasons (to keep the gravy train going because they weren’t going to be making anymore Superman movies any time soon) but they didn’t make it because they had a good story idea. Then of course they didn’t learn the lessons of the Superman films and didn’t get the script were it needed to be. They’d seen what worked and what didn’t and yet they still made a lot of the same mistakes.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 2:55:14 GMT -5
It would have been insane to recast Reeve in the same continuity especially in a film coming out a year after III so I’m glad they didn’t do that. There wasn’t really any strong solution without him if they were loaning to use Superman. Even if they had gotten him we might have had a better movie but it still very easily could have bombed. Dino De Laurentiis tried the same thing with Schwarzenegger and Red Sonja a year later we know how that turned out. Supergirl could have been a darn good movie but the entire thing felt misguided from the start. Not only were they making it for the wrong reasons (to keep the gravy train going because they weren’t going to be making anymore Superman movies any time soon) but they didn’t make it because they had a good story idea. Then of course they didn’t learn the lessons of the Superman films and didn’t get the script were it needed to be. They’d seen what worked and what didn’t and yet they still made a lot of the same mistakes. I'm unclear if Reeve wanted out of Superman altogether after S3- he wasn't the type to burn bridges in Hollywood but he was a bit critical of S3's choices in a newspaper article I remember reading shortly. We know that years later he approached Donner for SIV, but I wonder why he didn't want to use his clout back then to get whatever he wanted for another Superman movie rather than walking away from it. Still, he was in quite a few projects after that- and we know that he wanted to use Superman as an opportunity to do other things... hm.. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2020 7:56:30 GMT -5
He was quite done. Every interview that Ive seen or read from him he was quite adamant. His opinion began to change around 1985 because WB really wanted him back and once Cannon had the rights they were willing to do whatever to get him signed.
He only had that kind of clout until then and it was because they were willing to give it to him. The salkinds less so. If they were he would have gotten a lot more changed for Superman 3. Once he was contractually obligated to 4 it’s clear he couldn’t demand as much from Cannon. They had him.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 17:34:15 GMT -5
He was quite done. Every interview that Ive seen or read from him he was quite adamant. His opinion began to change around 1985 because WB really wanted him back and once Cannon had the rights they were willing to do whatever to get him signed. He only had that kind of clout until then and it was because they were willing to give it to him. The salkinds less so. If they were he would have gotten a lot more changed for Superman 3. Once he was contractually obligated to 4 it’s clear he couldn’t demand as much from Cannon. They had him. I know Reeve had script approval for Superman 3 - but there were reports that he was annoyed that there was so much focus on Richard Pryor's character (not Pryor's fault and oddly why wouldn't he have known that the script wasn't that deep from the beginning?) In the interview I mentioned, (wish I still had it- was a newspaper article)- Reeve was a bit less respectful to some of the choices made... but nothing really rash... the bad thing was that it was a short clipped interview and not in-depth nor complete. I have a strong feeling that the writer just wanted sound bytes, I can't picture Reeve biting the hand that fed him at the time. One thing not clear about the Salkinds is why they weren't anxious to keep on doing Superman Reeve movies or give up more control-- where they THAT excited about "Santa Claus- the movie" or "Chris Columbus- the movie"? (Possible) Unless they felt that they either couldn't make more money worth it at that point with the Superman series or if/why Reeve couldn't come to an agreement with them after Superman 3.... I'm guessing for myself that Reeve secretly was so disappointed in Superman 3, he wanted to move on until he got more control, as you mentioned with SIV. With SIV, I know there are blips that he tried to convince Donner & Mank to come back- and that when Donner passed, that Reeve at one point wanted to direct it (that might have been interesting)- but instead got to direct the moon battle and some second unit, if I recall.... but, again these are blips from interviews from third parties over time here and there. From afar, it looked like he got a number of things he wanted from SIV- but the budget thing was a killer.... and the revelation later on that he didn't necessarily want Kidder back as Lois Lane opens to door to speculation on what he did and didn't get control of during the production. That would be interesting- But then again.... I'm still hoping that one day we get a commentary or interview from Sydney Furie over SIV and Lester over SII/SIII.... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2020 17:43:19 GMT -5
Reeve knew, even with some creative input, that he’d never have all his demands met and he wasn’t a writer or director himself. He didn’t see the point in sticking around and getting typecast in films that weren’t going to be great. He was more concerned with his career outside of Superman or post Superman and I don’t blame him. As great as he was in the role he saw himself as more than that. Cannon offered a fresh start. With the property under new management he thought maybe it had a shot at being great again. Obviously that didn’t happen.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 17, 2020 17:47:29 GMT -5
Reeve knew, even with some creative input, that he’d never have all his demands met and he wasn’t a writer or director himself. He didn’t see the point in sticking around and getting typecast in films that weren’t going to be great. He was more concerned with his career outside of Superman or post Superman and I don’t blame him. As great as he was in the role he saw himself as more than that. Cannon offered a fresh start. With the property under new management he thought maybe it had a shot at being great again. Obviously that didn’t happen. I would have loved to have read a journal by Reeve on all the things that went astray during that time--- I recall he only had one sentence or two in his memoirs about the SIV experience. But, being outside of the business, I would have been fascinated by something like that. |
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