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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 15, 2020 14:09:30 GMT -5
I heard that it was average-bad but I really liked it.
Marvel had a smoother, better executed plan overall than DC that set the bar very high.
Still, I enjoyed JL. I enjoyed ALL the actors for WW, The Flash and Aquaman. I liked Affleck as Batman as well. Cyborg was ok. The Flash impressed me most.
This was probably Cavill’s best turn as Superman even though I still think his performance lacks...something...charisma? Hope?
Love the part where Superman throws down some Kryptonian blunt force trauma on Steppenwolf.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 15, 2020 16:11:13 GMT -5
I heard that it was average-bad but I really liked it. Marvel had a smoother, better executed plan overall than DC that set the bar very high. Still, I enjoyed JL. I enjoyed ALL the actors for WW, The Flash and Aquaman. I liked Affleck as Batman as well. Cyborg was ok. The Flash impressed me most. This was probably Cavill’s best turn as Superman even though I still think his performance lacks...something...charisma? Hope? Love the part where Superman throws down some Kryptonian blunt force trauma on Steppenwolf. I always thought it was a good film- but given the circumstances behind it (rushed deadline, working in preshot footage and story with it, restricted running time)- it could have been a complete disaster. Affleck was ok as Batman but after having Bale as Batman, Affleck seems more like a guy playing Batman whereas Bale feels like he IS Batman. I agree it was Cavill's best Superman outing- but I still feel that Amy Adams is so miscast as Lois (moreso than Kate Bosworth imo)- that it's a weak link that drags things down a bit. It's odd how underwhelming Steppenwolf (previously Darkseid???) was--- there was a great actor behind it, but it's funny how great Thanos with Brolin was in CGI versus how 'meh' Steppenwolf is. But the movie to me is entertaining, moves along fine- but didn't have a story that felt epic. I think having all the Parademons visualized as looking like bugs to be squashed didn't take one's breath away. The family bit felt forced in. I guess it kind of works so that there's some emotional investment and maybe there weren't too many options with the restrictions, but.... good but not great film. Not quite "the Avengers" first film- but then again- a compromised Batman with Bvs baggage, a compromised Superman with MOS baggage, a Flash that's not the tv show actor- none of them were bad, but a lot of casting that didn't feel like first choices to me when there were other actors still alive that I felt could have been better. If you took the same sotry & had Christian Bale, Brandon Routh, and Grant Gustin..... I know I would have been much more excited with the film. Glad they made the film, and I'm curious about the Zack version, but it's a pity that they didn't just give Whedon a clean slate with everything from casting to all else. Still- an enjoyable film, though. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 15, 2020 17:59:11 GMT -5
I thought Justice League was a fun don’t think too hard/not very deep popcorn movie. Not great but good and entertaining. Like a live action version of the old super powers cartoon from the 80s. It wasn’t as ambitious or complex as Snyder’s movies but it better achieved what it set out to do.
Whedon got more personality out of Cavill than Snyder ever did. It’s just a shame his face was all f***ed up half the time.
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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 15, 2020 23:15:00 GMT -5
Yeah, sometimes I wish DC had a more cohesive TV/movie world. I can’t imagine Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker being the same universe as the Affleck Batman for example, even though I enjoy both movies. I still haven’t seen The Flash tv show but want to. But the guy in JL was great.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 16, 2020 1:42:55 GMT -5
Yeah, sometimes I wish DC had a more cohesive TV/movie world. I can’t imagine Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker being the same universe as the Affleck Batman for example, even though I enjoy both movies. I still haven’t seen The Flash tv show but want to. But the guy in JL was great. To me, the Crisis miniseries helped a little bit- by confirming the multiple versions and making them 'all' canon... from Smallville to SR- I'm hoping that if the rumors are true about Keaton returning as Batman for a theatrical version of Crisis (to some degree) that they can build a solid foundation of the 'official' or 'definitive' versions (at least for this generation) of all the major characters. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 16, 2020 9:31:45 GMT -5
In a way, DC is kinda like the Bond series except we’ve had Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Craig all within a 10 year span. I enjoyed Bale and Affleck, both Green Arrows, and so on.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 16, 2020 12:21:53 GMT -5
In a way, DC is kinda like the Bond series except we’ve had Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Craig all within a 10 year span. I enjoyed Bale and Affleck, both Green Arrows, and so on. I suppose.... I'm far less invested in Bond than I am in the superhero adaptations, so I think that's why I give it way more lattitude. For me, after being so shocked (in a great way) at what STM could bring to the table--- particularly with DOnner's approach to make it feel like a legendary (rather than a regular summer film) film event--- raised the bar tremendously and made me feel that it was possible to make a 'once and for all definitive adaptation' of the giant legacy of stories from over the years. There's SO MUCH great material in the Superman world that goes beyond the Bond world, that I'd prefer that WB/DC try to do a LOTR-like adaptation of the best of the Superman stories. The problem with doing a superhero series with the same actor is of course the built-in age factor.... the amount of delays and restarts during Reeve's time resulted in him not playing Superman that many times (at least not enough for me)- but it also resulted in the rest of the cast aging beyond a point where it was more than a bit silly as it was written (SIV). It's hard to believe that only Kevin Feige can create a creatively & financially successful superhero movie world- but it kind of looks that way right now... Can you imagine if Feige were given a clean slate after he's done with Marvel to redo all the DC heroes from scratch? He's got to be the most job-secure person in the world imo (or at least in Hollywood..)  |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 20, 2020 13:47:37 GMT -5
Personally(!), I did not enjoy it much.
It seemed to lack size
The 2 fulcrums of the movie(IMHO)…...the resurrection of Supe's and subsequent fight with Wonder Woman and Co...….and the final climax with Stepenwolf are just mired in too much CG(yeah I know.....I harp on about CG saturation to the nth degree)…….then there are the next to no reactions from the ordinary earthlings with regards to all the slam bangin' that is going on(this is a problem that afflicts both DC and Marvel flicks alike0.
All we have in JL is that family who are being evacuated from the danger zone by Flash...it's actually a touching little moment when he completes the rescue...… this film needed way more of that IMHO.
Also , maybe I am watching these CG infested flicks on too big a screen(and quite frankly too high a resolution---quasi 8K res).
The backgrounds just seem flat.
Obviously modern cinema goers , when watching these things on the big screen,do not notice the CG saturation levels because they are so desensitised(i.e it's all they are used to).
But in my home theater I flick between modern CG and catalogue titles regularly and those flat synthetic backgrounds to not hold up IMHO.
JL is a prime perpetrator in this regard.
And whatever happens with the Snyder cut......those CG synthetic backgrounds are not going anywhere soon!
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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 20, 2020 14:03:34 GMT -5
I’m curious about the Snyder Cut. I expect to like it less since I think some of the “fun” in the film as it stands seems to come from Whedon based on what I’ve heard, and the first two Snyder films are kinda devoid of fun. (Haven’t seen them since the theater, and still want to rewatch them.)
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 20, 2020 14:13:53 GMT -5
I’d bet the Snyder cut is going to be more convoluted and overstuffed garbage. His own comments hint at it. He doubled down on MOS’s flaws with BVS and JL looked to be heading in the same direction. He’s giving his hardcore fans more of what they want not less and theres a reason WB sacked him the first time.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 20, 2020 14:21:27 GMT -5
In an ideal world, it'll have the stronger parts of Snyder (eye candy) and sense of being an epic (300) and less of the other stuff.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 20, 2020 14:40:23 GMT -5
I’m curious about the Snyder Cut. I expect to like it less since I think some of the “fun” in the film as it stands seems to come from Whedon based on what I’ve heard, and the first two Snyder films are kinda devoid of fun. (Haven’t seen them since the theater, and still want to rewatch them.) I have a personal conspiracy theory on this one. I think from the moment that Snyder had to step down (due to his personal tragedy)......that WB told him that he could release his cut at some point in the not too distant future(and obviously after the official theatrical version had time to gestate in the popular culture). On a personal level , WB had sympathy for Snyder(considering what he was going through).....and on an economical level.......they knew that they could theoretically rake in some kind of profit from Snyder's "now" alternative version. This was not like Donner's SII which was NEVER meant to see the light of day. It's my personal belief that this(JL-Snyder cut) was meant to see the light of day......just a little later! Maybe I can't prove this....but that is my personal hunch. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 20, 2020 15:12:09 GMT -5
You might have something but I think they wanted him gone either way. They’ve done everything they could within reason to move away from his “vision” and have even retconned things established in his movies.
Personally I think the Snydercut has been in negotiations for a while but what sealed the deal was the existence of HBO Max. If they didn’t need content for that we wouldn’t be seeing this for a long time if at all. The service has created a situation where all sides can benefit.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 20, 2020 17:03:12 GMT -5
You might have something but I think they wanted him gone either way. They’ve done everything they could within reason to move away from his “vision” and have even retconned things established in his movies. Personally I think the Snydercut has been in negotiations for a while but what sealed the deal was the existence of HBO Max. If they didn’t need content for that we wouldn’t be seeing this for a long time if at all. The service has created a situation where all sides can benefit. Yes you are definitely right about how Warner Bros were already surveilling Snyder quite heavily before during and after bringing Whedon in on the project. The prospect of the merger with AT&T in late 2016(after principal photography was already finished under Snyder) may have have added impetus to the idea of firing Snyder....and releasing his version on an un yet established in-house platform(which in the end turned out to be the newly formed HBO max). Not sure when Snyder first started teasing shots of his version...….but there maybe a connection with the timing of the completed merger between WB and AT&T......and Snyder's public gestures of releasing a cut of his own. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 20, 2020 17:07:05 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 20, 2020 18:36:19 GMT -5
You might have something but I think they wanted him gone either way. They’ve done everything they could within reason to move away from his “vision” and have even retconned things established in his movies. Personally I think the Snydercut has been in negotiations for a while but what sealed the deal was the existence of HBO Max. If they didn’t need content for that we wouldn’t be seeing this for a long time if at all. The service has created a situation where all sides can benefit. Yes you are definitely right about how Warner Bros were already surveilling Snyder quite heavily before during and after bringing Whedon in on the project. The prospect of the merger with AT&T in late 2016(after principal photography was already finished under Snyder) may have have added impetus to the idea of firing Snyder....and releasing his version on an un yet established in-house platform(which in the end turned out to be the newly formed HBO max). Not sure when Snyder first started teasing shots of his version...….but there maybe a connection with the timing of the completed merger between WB and AT&T......and Snyder's public gestures of releasing a cut of his own. He was teasing stuff for years but specifically I remember him dropping teases by the time 2018 was over. But the Snyder fans were asking for his cut right after JL came out. I think that was more him throwing his fans some red meat to keep his name out there and help his reputation. This all easily could have gone south for Snyder and damaged his career as a mainstream big budget Big studio director. We’ve seen it happen before on movies like this even if it wasn’t the directors fault. Even if Snyder wanted to release his version of the film everyone supporting that assumed it would be a limited theatrical release or a disc release (which was pipe dream) until HBO Max was announced. That changed the rules. That’s when people started floating the idea of the Snyder Cut on HBO Max. The merger played a factor but we know the biggest impact that had was rushing the film to meet its release date so it wouldn’t affect their yearly financials and affect the deal in any way. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Aug 21, 2020 14:36:40 GMT -5
Is Snyder permanently out of the DCU?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 27, 2020 13:26:43 GMT -5
Is Snyder permanently out of the DCU? It's weird, isn't it? Seems like he's being given a second chance dependent on the ratings for the Snyder Cut--- but I think it'll be a giant success if only for lack of new content around, the cost of the project (cheap given how much was already shot- so it's probably mostly cgi fx I assume outside of minor reshoots)- and with Batfleck returning for Flash, the Flash movie seeming to happen, and WW's success (part of the credit backtracks probably to Snyder for casting Gal & the original look)... I wouldn't be suprised if he was back- At the same time, I was a little suprised Whedon came back/was asked back after being dumped for his version of WW.... there is the Avengers which made a billion, but- one wonders how often the seats change at the studios and the phrase 'you're as good as your last movie' applies. It is weird how Whedon had a tv series that was supposed to come out years ago, but it never happened. There's so much info in Hwood that seems extremely secretive.... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 27, 2020 14:59:20 GMT -5
It really depends on how well this Snyder cut does. He is back in a sense but he’s not back in charge. So far this just sounds like him getting a chance to properly finish his story as closely as he can.
Since the DCEU has diverged some from where it was when he was last involved you could probably say he’s on the periphery. He’s not involved in a new project but an old one that doesn’t quite fit into the official cannon anymore. Not only that but this isn’t part of the film division but a whole separate division with HBO Max.
I don’t ever see Snyder being in change of everything again since Walter Hamada has made them too much money in the last few years but him being involved in some new future project is entirely possible.
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 7, 2020 8:53:47 GMT -5
Wow, looks like things have blown up between Ray Fisher and Whedon & producers of the movie.
Of all the League members, Cyborg came off as the least interesting to me. I wonder if the Snyder Cut will make him more interesting.
I did like Cyborg better in the Smallville show and found Fisher’s Cyborg “just ok”. Let’s see what happens.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 7, 2020 9:56:26 GMT -5
To be fair to cyborg in the movie most of his stuff got cut. Fisher was serviceable. Not bad but not great but most of his best scenes probably ended up being tossed.
Normally I try to give people making these claims a fair chance but Fishers just coming off like a guy with a vendetta or sour grapes. He’s not really being specific on just what happened compared to others who have made claims like this do. It’s hard to condemn Whedon when Fishers not even saying what he did. Now he’s going after Johns too. He wants everybody involved at the top gone.
For all we know he didn’t like being told what to do on the reshoots, got an attitude, then got mad when Whedon got angry. We just don’t know and it can be pretty dangerous when someone can make accusations like this when for all we know it started with some kind of personal dislike. It’s just very fishy.
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 7, 2020 10:58:57 GMT -5
His outfit was awesome but he came off a little bland, kinda like Cavill actually. I actually found Joe Morton as his father much more interesting. Super curious about the Snyder cut.
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 7, 2020 11:45:05 GMT -5
Now that I think of it, I think I liked EVERYONE on Smallville better than Justice League. Lol. Unfortunately...Cyborg and Aquaman weren’t on very often but I loved those actors in the role.
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