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Post by crazy_asian_man on Dec 15, 2020 2:53:53 GMT -5
If you count the USA's release- it's June 19th, 1981-- Though the earlier theatrical release was December 4th, 1980... 10 days ago. Understandable if everything went upside down this year, but... C'mon WB archives- you don't have to shoot ANYTHING new... just release the Blu ray Superman II international extended cut. Is that SO much to ask for?  |
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Post by booshman on Dec 20, 2020 20:33:30 GMT -5
I concur.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 29, 2020 8:46:06 GMT -5
If you count the USA's release- it's June 19th, 1981-- Though the earlier theatrical release was December 4th, 1980... 10 days ago. Understandable if everything went upside down this year, but... C'mon WB archives- you don't have to shoot ANYTHING new... just release the Blu ray Superman II international extended cut. Is that SO much to ask for? Agreed. heck even obscure and unbalanced contemporaries(and astronomically far less financially successful) of SII such as The Beastmaster and Rambo II are available on UHD. So the theatrical SII is now overdue on UHD... and an extended TV version on Blu ray would be nice too...and if possible a re-release of a new master of the Donner cut on blu ray.....and heck a restoration of said Donner cut for UHD.....but that maybe pushing it. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 5, 2021 3:55:05 GMT -5
If you count the USA's release- it's June 19th, 1981-- Though the earlier theatrical release was December 4th, 1980... 10 days ago. Understandable if everything went upside down this year, but... C'mon WB archives- you don't have to shoot ANYTHING new... just release the Blu ray Superman II international extended cut. Is that SO much to ask for? Agreed. heck even obscure and unbalanced contemporaries(and astronomically far less financially successful) of SII such as The Beastmaster and Rambo II are available on UHD. So the theatrical SII is now overdue on UHD... and an extended TV version on Blu ray would be nice too...and if possible a re-release of a new master of the Donner cut on blu ray.....and heck a restoration of said Donner cut for UHD.....but that maybe pushing it. If the current Donner cut edit remains the same without expansion or improvement- (or addition of its deleted scenes!) then I'm fine if there's no remaster.... just give us the SII extended tv on blu widescreen...!  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jan 5, 2021 9:19:05 GMT -5
The Donner Cut was crap. 2006 was a huge disappointment, which eventually led to the death of this forum.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 5, 2021 13:57:35 GMT -5
The Donner Cut was crap. 2006 was a huge disappointment, which eventually led to the death of this forum. The cutting was crap. I know that they said that there was a lack of staff to put it together properly, but the choices are mind-boggling when there was already so much already cut properly by Stuart Baird that we saw in the theatrical and extended cuts. I do enjoy seeing parts of it that we never got to see before, but it's just so badly handled for the most part in almost every added scene that it's definitely a mixed experience. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jan 10, 2021 3:53:27 GMT -5
The Donner Cut was crap. 2006 was a huge disappointment, which eventually led to the death of this forum. The DC was an ultimate personal disappointment for me too. But not just because of the poor editing and artistic license that Thau bestowed on the cut.......but ultimately because Donner had been a touch deceptive(either through poor recollection-deliberate or otherwise) regarding how much stuff he actually canned during the original 77-78 shoot for SII. The lynchpin for the marketing of the DC was the Brando footage....and don't get me wrong it was wonderful to finally see it......but Brando was not the sole reason that made Donner's original vision so great(for STM). The best way to illustrate the point is to transpose SII's predicament to STM. Brando is an important constituent, no doubt, with regards to STM, but not pivotal.....however if I were to hypothetically remove huge chunks of STM....say key sequences between Lois and Supes(the robber and the balcony scenes) as well as random parts from Supe's first night and the earthquake climax, STM would be less effective as an entire piece(even with the Brando shots intact)......hopefully you can see where I am coming from. The real problem was that the fulcrum of Donner's original SII vision--the niagra and fortress sequences, the villain's worldwide destruction and the climactic battle in NYC had not been shot(through no fault of Donner----it's a miracle he did shoot as much as he did). The fault of Donner however, was to IMPLY for the best part of 20 years ,that he had shot some of this stuff when he had not....period. This mistake was crucial in amplifying the fan's expectations to exorbitant levels....the only way was down! He also made the mistake (in press interviews)of elevating some of his original unique SII footage(when the cinema going public could not see it to judge for themselves-1981-2006!) that ended up on the cutting room floor. Particularly the Daily planet stuff -the jumping out the window and Clark returning to work after turning back the world sequences are not only several notches (in terms of quality) below what Lester shot to compensate in the theatrical(the Eiffel tower and memory kiss)....but also don't match Donner's own level that he achieved for STM. Had he been allowed to finish SII in 79' as originally intended......I think Donner would have junked those aforementioned sequences and re-shot/reconfigured them to compensate. |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jan 12, 2021 22:49:39 GMT -5
The Donner Cut was crap. 2006 was a huge disappointment, which eventually led to the death of this forum. The DC was an ultimate personal disappointment for me too. But not just because of the poor editing and artistic license that Thau bestowed on the cut.......but ultimately because Donner had been a touch deceptive(either through poor recollection-deliberate or otherwise) regarding how much stuff he actually canned during the original 77-78 shoot for SII. The lynchpin for the marketing of the DC was the Brando footage....and don't get me wrong it was wonderful to finally see it......but Brando was not the sole reason that made Donner's original vision so great(for STM). The best way to illustrate the point is to transpose SII's predicament to STM. Brando is an important constituent, no doubt, with regards to STM, but not pivotal.....however if I were to hypothetically remove huge chunks of STM....say key sequences between Lois and Supes(the robber and the balcony scenes) as well as random parts from Supe's first night and the earthquake climax, STM would be less effective as an entire piece(even with the Brando shots intact)......hopefully you can see where I am coming from. The real problem was that the fulcrum of Donner's original SII vision--the niagra and fortress sequences, the villain's worldwide destruction and the climactic battle in NYC had not been shot(through no fault of Donner----it's a miracle he did shoot as much as he did). The fault of Donner however, was to IMPLY for the best part of 20 years ,that he had shot some of this stuff when he had not....period. This mistake was crucial in amplifying the fan's expectations to exorbitant levels....the only way was down! He also made the mistake (in press interviews)of elevating some of his original unique SII footage(when the cinema going public could not see it to judge for themselves-1981-2006!) that ended up on the cutting room floor. Particularly the Daily planet stuff -the jumping out the window and Clark returning to work after turning back the world sequences are not only several notches (in terms of quality) below what Lester shot to compensate in the theatrical(the Eiffel tower and memory kiss)....but also don't match Donner's own level that he achieved for STM. Had he been allowed to finish SII in 79' as originally intended......I think Donner would have junked those aforementioned sequences and re-shot/reconfigured them to compensate. That is exactly my own feeling, and describes my own reasons for being disappointed in the DC. Is it possible that Donner did actually film the stuff he claimed, but it jusr wasn't found? How can we be sure that Mr Thau found everything? |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jan 13, 2021 4:48:14 GMT -5
@cam With regards to how much Donner footage for SII remains buried and unseen for 43 years: Well...that is the million dollar question! It is interesting that in the Starburst issue of April 1979:  .......Donner talks about the fans having a unique and incredible opportunity to provide input/feedback on how to conclude/complete SII!? "As far as as I am concerned, this is the easiest continuation in the world, the most incredible opportunity of a lifetime to incorporate the public's input into a second film" Imagine the Russo's hypothetically having said the same after Infinity War ......on how to conclude Endgame! If you want to buy that Starburst April 1979 issue....it's right here! www.ebay.com/itm/APRIL-1979-STARBURST-MAGAZINE-8-SPACE-1999-EMPIRE-STRIKES-BACK-NIMOY-/392624012677So that to me implies that Donner had a long way to go to complete SII. My personal guess is that there maybe fragments of test footage(like the SII psychedelic depowering shots ) that surfaced in the 2001 Thau making of docs.....still lying around in forgotten vaults somewhere. But the fact of the matter is that entire key sequences still needed to be shot. In June 1981, Donner should have said something along the lines of: "If I had been allowed to finish SII it would have been so much better than what the fans are seeing in the cinemas right now.....but unfortunately I did not get a chance to shoot it" as opposed to what he did imply: "lying in a vault is an entirely different and better SII that is 75-80% compete." This nuanced difference is what deceived fans into thinking that there really was more of Donner's SII.....than there really was. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 16, 2021 1:48:52 GMT -5
@cam With regards to how much Donner footage for SII remains buried and unseen for 43 years: Well...that is the million dollar question! It is interesting that in the Starburst issue of April 1979: .......Donner talks about the fans having a unique and incredible opportunity to provide input/feedback on how to conclude/complete SII!? "As far as as I am concerned, this is the easiest continuation in the world, the most incredible opportunity of a lifetime to incorporate the public's input into a second film" Imagine the Russo's hypothetically having said the same after Infinity War ......on how to conclude Endgame! If you want to buy that Starburst April 1979 issue....it's right here! www.ebay.com/itm/APRIL-1979-STARBURST-MAGAZINE-8-SPACE-1999-EMPIRE-STRIKES-BACK-NIMOY-/392624012677So that to me implies that Donner had a long way to go to complete SII. My personal guess is that there maybe fragments of test footage(like the SII psychedelic depowering shots ) that surfaced in the 2001 Thau making of docs.....still lying around in forgotten vaults somewhere. But the fact of the matter is that entire key sequences still needed to be shot. In June 1981, Donner should have said something along the lines of: "If I had been allowed to finish SII it would have been so much better than what the fans are seeing in the cinemas right now.....but unfortunately I did not get a chance to shoot it" as opposed to what he did imply: "lying in a vault is an entirely different and better SII that is 75-80% compete." This nuanced difference is what deceived fans into thinking that there really was more of Donner's SII.....than there really was. I didn't think there was a lot shot by Donner, as I was pretty obsessive for awhile on the interviews and behind the scenes on the scifi magaazines at the time covering Superman (though I didn't see this one, thanks for the heads up!)--- but I was extremely hopeful after reading the Mankiewicz script bought from a convention decades ago. The SII extended on tv was wonderful- it gave me chills seeing some of the additional DOnner scenes- the entrance to the Phantom Zone, the extra Lois/Superman stuff and some minor bits and pieces (some of which were restored).... but beyond that, I knew that the Metro battle he was not able to shoot (the one minute where Zod kicks Supes into the Statue of LIberty and Supes punching Non were great but far far too little in the RDC).... we knew he did the Brando scenes, but it's sad that he did not have a chance to shoot the Lois portions of that section properly. It is a bummer that he didn't have more scenes in the can- but I forgive him if he knowingly exaggerated the amount shot.... whatever got him to get enough fans to help push and eventually get WB to open the vaults and get those previously unreleased scenes out- I do appreciate, though. While it's not edited well at all.... I thought I'd NEVER see a glimpse of what Donner might have done. It's unpolished for sure and the choices for editing are absolutely questionable.... but I'm glad that I at least got to see what I did. Still.... I want more!!! |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jan 16, 2021 3:36:46 GMT -5
@cam You did well to follow the behind the scenes stuff at the time.....not easy seeing as it was entirely based on clippings from magazines ,newspapers or if you were lucky....the odd TV expose'(although I wonder how many of those clips have been lost to the sands of time seeing as VCRs were not widespread at the time). check out this one! Very rare footage of SII editor John Victor Smith going through Donner's footage......most likely he was scouring for shots that could be used in the opening credit's sequence(of SII): www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0_YKBHooYIWhat is interesting with the 1979 starburst issue is that Donner's statement: "As far as as I am concerned, this is the easiest continuation in the world, the most incredible opportunity of a lifetime to incorporate the public's input into a second film" .....actually ended up being applied to garnering support to release his footage in 2006!! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 16, 2021 16:32:27 GMT -5
@cam You did well to follow the behind the scenes stuff at the time.....not easy seeing as it was entirely based on clippings from magazines ,newspapers or if you were lucky....the odd TV expose'(although I wonder how many of those clips have been lost to the sands of time seeing as VCRs were not widespread at the time). check out this one! Very rare footage of SII editor John Victor Smith going through Donner's footage......most likely he was scouring for shots that could be used in the opening credit's sequence(of SII): www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0_YKBHooYIWhat is interesting with the 1979 starburst issue is that Donner's statement: "As far as as I am concerned, this is the easiest continuation in the world, the most incredible opportunity of a lifetime to incorporate the public's input into a second film" .....actually ended up being applied to garnering support to release his footage in 2006!! Cool find! I agree.... that had to be looking for footage for the credi sequence. Pity that we couldn't have seen an unused or never before seen shot on his monitor! |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jan 16, 2021 21:31:14 GMT -5
@cam Yeah when it comes to buried SII Donner footage.....I always wondered what the context of this incredibly rare shot of Reeve signified in the industry trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dltSyov0F08&t=93sGoto 2:15 in the video. The poor picture quality does not help.....too me it looks like a fortress shot....maybe looking at Lois or Jorel......who knows! But exceptionally intriguing! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jan 17, 2021 3:33:13 GMT -5
@cam Yeah when it comes to buried SII Donner footage.....I always wondered what the context of this incredibly rare shot of Reeve signified in the industry trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dltSyov0F08&t=93sGoto 2:15 in the video. The poor picture quality does not help.....too me it looks like a fortress shot....maybe looking at Lois or Jorel......who knows! But exceptionally intriguing! Agreed! It does look like a Fortress shot. One wonders... |
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