Let's play an MCU does Superman game..

[crazy_asian_man]

Strictly going by the credits on 10 years of different MCU directors & writers...

Who do you choose to do a new Superman movie (and/or other thoughts?)

[Metallo]

Looking at all the current films and who would be the best fit I’d say The Russo brothers. They aren’t the best directors in Marvels stable but they’ve shown they can handle a clean cut all nice guy hero and make him fit in a modern world. They seem to understand Superman and what to do with him when asked about what they’d do.

They can handle large ensembles and lots of cgi spectacle well too. They’d need some really good writers and producers supporting them though. If they had the same kind of support they had at Marvel studios they could deliver a solid Superman film.

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 19, 2022 16:15:16 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Looking at all the current films and who would be the best fit I’d say The Russo brothers. They aren’t the best directors in Marvels stable but they’ve shown they can handle a clean cut all nice guy hero and make him fit in a modern world. They seem to understand Superman and what to do with him when asked about what they’d do.

They can handle large ensembles and lots of cgi spectacle well too. They’d need some really good writers and producers supporting them though. If they had the same kind of support they had at Marvel studios they could deliver a solid Superman film.

Totally agree. Hands down, the Russo brothers delivered the best Marvel movies directorially (though Black Panther is a different category in my head as the most socially relevant one)-

That would also be my choice... though their projects outside of Marvel have been poorly received, if I read right...

Like Spielberg and Donner, they worked so much in tv, it seems not only can they work fast when they have to- but also they strive to have a look beyond what you can get on tv (which is what I feel when I see Antman films).

So-
Roussos directing-
Uncertain on writers- though the Endgame writers did a great job.

Perhaps Taika Watiti might be runner up- his visuals in THor: Ragnorak and ability to do comedy and drama were great... but I'm uncertain. He might be TOO light for Superman and has a certain comedy flavor that I might feel is too superficial for Supes.

[dejan]

Feb 22, 2022 18:49:24 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Feb 19, 2022 16:15:16 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Looking at all the current films and who would be the best fit I’d say The Russo brothers. They aren’t the best directors in Marvels stable but they’ve shown they can handle a clean cut all nice guy hero and make him fit in a modern world. They seem to understand Superman and what to do with him when asked about what they’d do.

They can handle large ensembles and lots of cgi spectacle well too. They’d need some really good writers and producers supporting them though. If they had the same kind of support they had at Marvel studios they could deliver a solid Superman film.

Totally agree. Hands down, the Russo brothers delivered the best Marvel movies directorially (though Black Panther is a different category in my head as the most socially relevant one)-

That would also be my choice... though their projects outside of Marvel have been poorly received, if I read right...

Like Spielberg and Donner, they worked so much in tv, it seems not only can they work fast when they have to- but also they strive to have a look beyond what you can get on tv (which is what I feel when I see Antman films).

So-
Roussos directing-
Uncertain on writers- though the Endgame writers did a great job.

Perhaps Taika Watiti might be runner up- his visuals in THor: Ragnorak and ability to do comedy and drama were great... but I'm uncertain. He might be TOO light for Superman and has a certain comedy flavor that I might feel is too superficial for Supes.

I too would favour the Russo bros with Favreau coming a close second.
But it would have to be the Favreau who directed Iron Man 1--not the Favreau who messed up Iron Man 2!
Joe Johnston would be my outsider.

One snitch with regards to the Russos is that they took over the mantle with a lot of the characters that constitute the MCU already in place and firmly established.
Of course there were discrete introductions in Civil War(Panther and Spidey)---these initiations were commensurate within the context of a shared universe.
So what I am basically saying is would  the Russos have had the skill to create/introduce a character convincingly--- from the ground up---especially if it came to a Supes origin flick. 

On Edit:
Sorry CAM--personally not particularly a fan of Ragnarok---found the humor mitigated the drama ---- so Watiti goes down the list for me!--you may find that slightly contradictory ,seeing as I have accepted lester's humor for SII!-lol---but that is another discussion!
Thinking about it---- Kenneth Branagh who directed Thor 1 could be an interesting choice for Supes----bring in some of that Shakesperean theatricality to Supe's origin story!--lol

[crazy_asian_man]

Mar 1, 2022 17:34:27 GMT -5 dejan said:

Feb 22, 2022 18:49:24 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Totally agree. Hands down, the Russo brothers delivered the best Marvel movies directorially (though Black Panther is a different category in my head as the most socially relevant one)-

That would also be my choice... though their projects outside of Marvel have been poorly received, if I read right...

Like Spielberg and Donner, they worked so much in tv, it seems not only can they work fast when they have to- but also they strive to have a look beyond what you can get on tv (which is what I feel when I see Antman films).

So-
Roussos directing-
Uncertain on writers- though the Endgame writers did a great job.

Perhaps Taika Watiti might be runner up- his visuals in THor: Ragnorak and ability to do comedy and drama were great... but I'm uncertain. He might be TOO light for Superman and has a certain comedy flavor that I might feel is too superficial for Supes.

I too would favour the Russo bros with Favreau coming a close second.
But it would have to be the Favreau who directed Iron Man 1--not the Favreau who messed up Iron Man 2!
Joe Johnston would be my outsider.

One snitch with regards to the Russos is that they took over the mantle with a lot of the characters that constitute the MCU already in place and firmly established.
Of course there were discrete introductions in Civil War(Panther and Spidey)---these initiations were commensurate within the context of a shared universe.
So what I am basically saying is would  the Russos have had the skill to create/introduce a character convincingly--- from the ground up---especially if it came to a Supes origin flick. 

On Edit:
Sorry CAM--personally not particularly a fan of Ragnarok---found the humor mitigated the drama ---- so Watiti goes down the list for me!--you may find that slightly contradictory ,seeing as I have accepted lester's humor for SII!-lol---but that is another discussion!
Thinking about it---- Kenneth Branagh who directed Thor 1 could be an interesting choice for Supes----bring in some of that Shakesperean theatricality to Supe's origin story!--lol

The Rousso's seem to have great taste within the MCU- Casting of Panther and Spidey (though it's uncertain just how much input they get/got)- I very much liked and their visuals and choices always seem VERY cinematic (probably from not wanting things to look just like tv after years and years of tv work)...

But I agree- it's hard to know for sure if they'd be perfect for starting up Supes solo without guidance- on their own- Their movies haven't gotten very good response. It's difficult to know where the line is between Feige's creative force ends and the directors under Marvel begins.

Branagh did some great parts in Thor- but also guided a lot of cringeworthy rom-com in Thor, too. With Thor apparently trying to be a rom-com Marvel movie, out of the three, I think Ragnarok was the one that nailed it. But it's all subjective of course...

[booshman]

Russo's would be up there for me. Waititi would be bottom of the pack based on Ragnarok.

[crazy_asian_man]

Mar 11, 2022 2:28:44 GMT -5 booshman said:

Russo's would be up there for me. Waititi would be bottom of the pack based on Ragnarok.

Ok, I think we're unanimous on Rousso brothers for first choice!

Taika, different story...

[Metallo]

The Russos did with Captain America what Snyder completely failed to do with Superman. They took a more traditional old fashioned character and made him fit in the modern world with currently relevant issues and stories and kept him feeling like the same character at his core. That’s not to mention juggling various other characters.

Even civil war did a better job telling the kind of story bvs was trying to without resorting to bullsh!t outside forces proping the entire thing up. You could take Zemo out of civil war and Cap and Iron Man’s conflicts are still very much legitimate. Registration was an important issue. And Steve did keep to himself what he knew about Bucky. Zemo just moved things along and threw gas on a fire. The two heroes already had a lot of friction between them going back to the original Avengers.

Batman’s fears of Superman were a steaming load of crap particularly since Batman operated outside of the law himself and wasn’t planing for anyone to keep him in check. His fears also could have been true for any of the super powered beings he’s encountered in this film and he didn’t feel the same urge to take them down. The entire plot of bvs is built on a house of cards built by a complete clutz named Zack Snyder.

[dejan]

Mar 11, 2022 14:00:26 GMT -5 Metallo said:

The Russos did with Captain America what Snyder completely failed to do with Superman. They took a more traditional old fashioned character and made him fit in the modern world with currently relevant issues and stories and kept him feeling like the same character at his core. That’s not to mention juggling various other characters.

Even civil war did a better job telling the kind of story bvs was trying to without resorting to bullsh!t outside forces proping the entire thing up. You could take Zemo out of civil war and Cap and Iron Man’s conflicts are still very much legitimate. Registration was an important issue. And Steve did keep to himself what he knew about Bucky. Zemo just moved things along and threw gas on a fire. The two heroes already had a lot of friction between them going back to the original Avengers.

Batman’s fears of Superman were a steaming load of crap particularly since Batman operated outside of the law himself and wasn’t planing for anyone to keep him in check. His fears also could have been true for any of the super powered beings he’s encountered in this film and he didn’t feel the same urge to take them down. The entire plot of bvs is built on a house of cards built by a complete clutz named Zack Snyder.

Indeed.
Even the reveal of what Bucky had done to Stark's parents was handled with intelligence and subtelty-amplifying it's impact when finally exposed to the audience(and Stark) in the final section of the film.
That was good storytelling.

But in BvS, Luthor's machinations(even if a touch convoluted) were evident from a mile off.
Personally,  I actually liked the part where Luthor flicks the poloroids of the kidnapped Martha in Supe's shocked face.
Had the whole flick been on that level , maybe it could have been something.
Alas it was not to be.

[atp]

MoS was crap.
BvS was worse crap.

[Metallo]

Mar 12, 2022 10:55:18 GMT -5 dejan said:

Mar 11, 2022 14:00:26 GMT -5 Metallo said:

The Russos did with Captain America what Snyder completely failed to do with Superman. They took a more traditional old fashioned character and made him fit in the modern world with currently relevant issues and stories and kept him feeling like the same character at his core. That’s not to mention juggling various other characters.

Even civil war did a better job telling the kind of story bvs was trying to without resorting to bullsh!t outside forces proping the entire thing up. You could take Zemo out of civil war and Cap and Iron Man’s conflicts are still very much legitimate. Registration was an important issue. And Steve did keep to himself what he knew about Bucky. Zemo just moved things along and threw gas on a fire. The two heroes already had a lot of friction between them going back to the original Avengers.

Batman’s fears of Superman were a steaming load of crap particularly since Batman operated outside of the law himself and wasn’t planing for anyone to keep him in check. His fears also could have been true for any of the super powered beings he’s encountered in this film and he didn’t feel the same urge to take them down. The entire plot of bvs is built on a house of cards built by a complete clutz named Zack Snyder.

Indeed.
Even the reveal of what Bucky had done to Stark's parents was handled with intelligence and subtelty-amplifying it's impact when finally exposed to the audience(and Stark) in the final section of the film.
That was good storytelling.

But in BvS, Luthor's machinations(even if a touch convoluted) were evident from a mile off.
Personally,  I actually liked the part where Luthor flicks the poloroids of the kidnapped Martha in Supe's shocked face.
Had the whole flick been on that level , maybe it could have been something.
Alas it was not to be.

I don’t mind Luthor putting them against each other but it was all so silly and nonsensical. Anyone with any sense could tell Luthor was not only crazy but manipulating them. And Batman and Superman’s own issues with each other don’t hold water. Batmans being an idiot and overly focused on just Superman and Superman is being a hypocrite.

Honestly the Andrew Kevin Walker version of BvS read better in the early 2000’s and even that had its issues.

[Metallo]

Mar 12, 2022 11:49:04 GMT -5 atp said:

MoS was crap.
BvS was worse crap.

[dejan]

Mar 5, 2022 12:42:33 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Mar 1, 2022 17:34:27 GMT -5 dejan said:

I too would favour the Russo bros with Favreau coming a close second.
But it would have to be the Favreau who directed Iron Man 1--not the Favreau who messed up Iron Man 2!
Joe Johnston would be my outsider.

One snitch with regards to the Russos is that they took over the mantle with a lot of the characters that constitute the MCU already in place and firmly established.
Of course there were discrete introductions in Civil War(Panther and Spidey)---these initiations were commensurate within the context of a shared universe.
So what I am basically saying is would  the Russos have had the skill to create/introduce a character convincingly--- from the ground up---especially if it came to a Supes origin flick. 

On Edit:
Sorry CAM--personally not particularly a fan of Ragnarok---found the humor mitigated the drama ---- so Watiti goes down the list for me!--you may find that slightly contradictory ,seeing as I have accepted lester's humor for SII!-lol---but that is another discussion!
Thinking about it---- Kenneth Branagh who directed Thor 1 could be an interesting choice for Supes----bring in some of that Shakesperean theatricality to Supe's origin story!--lol

The Rousso's seem to have great taste within the MCU- Casting of Panther and Spidey (though it's uncertain just how much input they get/got)- I very much liked and their visuals and choices always seem VERY cinematic (probably from not wanting things to look just like tv after years and years of tv work)...

But I agree- it's hard to know for sure if they'd be perfect for starting up Supes solo without guidance- on their own- Their movies haven't gotten very good response. It's difficult to know where the line is between Feige's creative force ends and the directors under Marvel begins.

Branagh did some great parts in Thor- but also guided a lot of cringeworthy rom-com in Thor, too. With Thor apparently trying to be a rom-com Marvel movie, out of the three, I think Ragnarok was the one that nailed it. But it's all subjective of course..

Yep

So I say we include Faige as producer-making sure that his creative long term strategic planning acts as a guide for the Roussos as they embark on that solo Supe's origin story.

Another thing with the Roussos which maybe got overlooked after they moved onto Civil War, Infinity and Endgame , was that Winter Soldier was actually a very photo realistic film(at least until the final act when those CGI Helicarriers started crashing into each other and diving to earth---it is what is and I concede that it was still well done).

So it showed that the Roussos , if given the opportunity, could shoot almost old school style , with lots of real location work and practical effects.
By the very nature of the stories , they had to alter their style for Infinity and Endgame and rely more on green screen and CG.
But for a "grounded" Supes movie in the Donner mould---then that "Winter Soldier" method of film making would be the way to go (for me!--and others may disagree!)

[dejan]

Mar 12, 2022 14:18:13 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Mar 12, 2022 10:55:18 GMT -5 dejan said:

Indeed.
Even the reveal of what Bucky had done to Stark's parents was handled with intelligence and subtelty-amplifying it's impact when finally exposed to the audience(and Stark) in the final section of the film.
That was good storytelling.

But in BvS, Luthor's machinations(even if a touch convoluted) were evident from a mile off.
Personally,  I actually liked the part where Luthor flicks the poloroids of the kidnapped Martha in Supe's shocked face.
Had the whole flick been on that level , maybe it could have been something.
Alas it was not to be.

I don’t mind Luthor putting them against each other but it was all so silly and nonsensical. Anyone with any sense could tell Luthor was not only crazy but manipulating them. And Batman and Superman’s own issues with each other don’t hold water. Batmans being an idiot and overly focused on just Superman and Superman is being a hypocrite.

Honestly the Andrew Kevin Walker version of BvS read better in the early 2000’s and even that had its issues.

Agreed(although never read that Walker script so can't comment).

But I did  go on the Joe Chill wiki page and educated myself on his entire history within the Batman lore:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Chill

Ofcourse there was a bit of controversy in 89' when Burton substituted Chill for the Joker as the true murderer of Bruce's parents.
But hey, if you gave me creative license in a hypothetical BvS screenplay, that's the way I would have gone too(in terms of altering Chill's "functionality")--fostering a relationship(don't ask me how!) between  Chill and Supes (or Clark) in some capacity.   

Thereby giving Bruce some meaningful reason to tackle Supes/Clark for a personal reason.

Just throwing ideas out there!

Because as you said , the whole superman trashing stuff motivation thing and subsequent Martha resolution was poorly concieved and executed. 

[Metallo]

Mar 12, 2022 18:36:50 GMT -5 dejan said:

Mar 12, 2022 14:18:13 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I don’t mind Luthor putting them against each other but it was all so silly and nonsensical. Anyone with any sense could tell Luthor was not only crazy but manipulating them. And Batman and Superman’s own issues with each other don’t hold water. Batmans being an idiot and overly focused on just Superman and Superman is being a hypocrite.

Honestly the Andrew Kevin Walker version of BvS read better in the early 2000’s and even that had its issues.

Agreed(although never read that Walker script so can't comment).

But I did  go on the Joe Chill wiki page and educated myself on his entire history within the Batman lore:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Chill

Ofcourse there was a bit of controversy in 89' when Burton substituted Chill for the Joker as the true murderer of Bruce's parents.
But hey, if you gave me creative license in a hypothetical BvS screenplay, that's the way I would have gone too(in terms of altering Chill's "functionality")--fostering a relationship(don't ask me how!) between  Chill and Supes (or Clark) in some capacity.   

Thereby giving Bruce some meaningful reason to tackle Supes/Clark for a personal reason.

Just throwing ideas out there!

Because as you said , the whole superman trashing stuff motivation thing and subsequent Martha resolution was poorly concieved and executed. 

Even though Superman and Batman were also put at odds through Luthors machinations in the Walker story Batman’s motivations are far more understandable. Someone does something awful and Batman understandably wants that person dead. Superman tries to stop Batman from going to that point of no return. Batman and Superman’s motivations in BvS are so convoluted and unbelievable that the film just falls apart. There is no real personal passion there to put them at odds. Batman hates Superman because he fears that maybe he might go rogue someday and kill us all. Superman dislikes Batman because he’s a vigilante that operates outside the law even though he does the same thing himself. It’s all garbage.

[dejan]

Metallo

Agreed.

It seems as if spectacle has to be intrinsically interwoven into contemporary screenplays at the expense of the integrity of the story.
So in BvS what better "spectacle" than to have ol' Supes(and his Kryptonian chums) trash an entire city, 911 style, so that poor ol' Bruce can have a good enough  reason to confront Supes.

Would have been far more interesting(though less visually spectracular) to have some subtle ,clever, deceptive, personal machinations behind the scenes manipulation to get our two venerable heroes to clash.
Of course we did get manipulations by Eisenberg's Luthor in BvS , except some of it was downright contradictory aswell as being overtly obvious!
I mean, Batman tracks Luthor's goons in a spectacular car/lorry chase scene , with said goons trying to blow Batman's head off all the way(lol!) , and yet when all is said and done, Batman is more concerned with  getting hold of that kryptonite(and in fact does so) than investigating Luthor and his henchman(who , as i said, have just tried shoot Batman to heck and back).
Again spectacle at the expense of logic and reason.

[Metallo]

Apr 11, 2022 11:03:58 GMT -5 dejan said:

Metallo

Agreed.

It seems as if spectacle has to be intrinsically interwoven into contemporary screenplays at the expense of the integrity of the story.
So in BvS what better "spectacle" than to have ol' Supes(and his Kryptonian chums) trash an entire city, 911 style, so that poor ol' Bruce can have a good enough  reason to confront Supes.

Would have been far more interesting(though less visually spectracular) to have some subtle ,clever, deceptive, personal machinations behind the scenes manipulation to get our two venerable heroes to clash.
Of course we did get manipulations by Eisenberg's Luthor in BvS , except some of it was downright contradictory aswell as being overtly obvious!
I mean, Batman tracks Luthor's goons in a spectacular car/lorry chase scene , with said goons trying to blow Batman's head off all the way(lol!) , and yet when all is said and done, Batman is more concerned with  getting hold of that kryptonite(and in fact does so) than investigating Luthor and his henchman(who , as i said, have just tried shoot Batman to heck and back).
Again spectacle at the expense of logic and reason.

The worst part is you’d think Batman would be smart enough to know Luthor was playing him. It was all too much and all too obvious. Batman steals the kryptonite from Luthor. He gets files from Luthor’s servers. You’d think Batman would question if it was too easy since he went through all that and didn’t get a scratch on him. Batman comes off looking like a total moron in the movie.

At least with Zemo in Civil War The Avengers didn’t know him and didn’t even know he was involved until it was too late. Zemo was also using real events and real feelings about certain things to push everyone’s buttons like the constant destruction that seemed to involve the Avengers and the death of Tony Starks parents.

Marvel Studios really deserves more credit. Now we’re about to go through the same thing again where Marvel does something well while DC seems to be blowing it. Doctor Strange 2 is about to come out in mere weeks and looks to smash the worldwide box office while WB’s multiversal effort The Flash has been pushed back yet again. It won’t be out for over a year and in the interim it’s star is having a total mental breakdown.

[crazy_asian_man]

Apr 11, 2022 15:00:14 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Apr 11, 2022 11:03:58 GMT -5 dejan said:

Metallo

Agreed.

It seems as if spectacle has to be intrinsically interwoven into contemporary screenplays at the expense of the integrity of the story.
So in BvS what better "spectacle" than to have ol' Supes(and his Kryptonian chums) trash an entire city, 911 style, so that poor ol' Bruce can have a good enough  reason to confront Supes.

Would have been far more interesting(though less visually spectracular) to have some subtle ,clever, deceptive, personal machinations behind the scenes manipulation to get our two venerable heroes to clash.
Of course we did get manipulations by Eisenberg's Luthor in BvS , except some of it was downright contradictory aswell as being overtly obvious!
I mean, Batman tracks Luthor's goons in a spectacular car/lorry chase scene , with said goons trying to blow Batman's head off all the way(lol!) , and yet when all is said and done, Batman is more concerned with  getting hold of that kryptonite(and in fact does so) than investigating Luthor and his henchman(who , as i said, have just tried shoot Batman to heck and back).
Again spectacle at the expense of logic and reason.

The worst part is you’d think Batman would be smart enough to know Luthor was playing him. It was all too much and all too obvious. Batman steals the kryptonite from Luthor. He gets files from Luthor’s servers. You’d think Batman would question if it was too easy since he went through all that and didn’t get a scratch on him. Batman comes off looking like a total moron in the movie.

At least with Zemo in Civil War The Avengers didn’t know him and didn’t even know he was involved until it was too late. Zemo was also using real events and real feelings about certain things to push everyone’s buttons like the constant destruction that seemed to involve the Avengers and the death of Tony Starks parents.

Marvel Studios really deserves more credit. Now we’re about to go through the same thing again where Marvel does something well while DC seems to be blowing it. Doctor Strange 2 is about to come out in mere weeks and looks to smash the worldwide box office while WB’s multiversal effort The Flash has been pushed back yet again. It won’t be out for over a year and in the interim it’s star is having a total mental breakdown.

Tv-wise, I love enough of the Crisis crossover event for the multiverse from DC- I do wonder if it had any influence at all for Marvel on upping the multiverse event coming up... even if one percent.

Movie wise, yeah... Into the Spiderverse, then No Way Home pretty much raised the bar so ridiculously high that I wonder if that's got DC second guessing and getting them to rewrite the movie to include more (Hopefully ROuth! Routh! Routh!)- into guest appearances and whatnot for the multiverse.

By the time (ONE YEAR?) WB/DC comes out with the Flash movie.... it certainly isn't a good look to be looking like the last on the block to come out and may or may not be nearly as good. (Probably not... No Way Home is so solid) *sigh*