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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2023 13:41:16 GMT -5
Donner said that he was offered every superhero project after "Superman", but didn't accept mostly because he felt he wouldn't be able to top (or match) what he had done before.
BUT-
What if he said 'yes' instead?
Donner was more than capable to bring the dark (Omen, the Jor-el parts of STM as a quick example)- so it would have been interesting to see what he would have done.
To me, the first two Batman Nolan films (fortunately with Donner DNA) are the definitive Batman films for me- but if Donner had done them back then, my own assumptions:
#1: Giant hit all over again-
#2: It would have started production earlier than when Burton's Batman came out (89)--
#3: There would have been a far better possibility for a Batman/Superman crossover under Donner with Reeve (I really don't think Donner would have chosen Keaton, as interesting as Keaton is on his own)
#4: Donner might have made Batman 'his' franchise- and extend it to being the Kevin Feige of the DCEU back then.
Agree? Disagree? It's all speculation on my part. Thoughts?
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 7, 2023 14:54:30 GMT -5
Donner may have cast Mel Gibson as Bruce Wayne / Batman. And he would have been pretty good in the role.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 7, 2023 15:35:38 GMT -5
Donner may have cast Mel Gibson as Bruce Wayne / Batman. And he would have been pretty good in the role. It's possible- I know he said (but I assume jokingly) that he would have done a reboot of Supes with Mel.... but, I had my eye right away on a young Ray Liotta as Bruce Wayne/Batman as in Goodfellas. He was good looking but definitely had both an innocence but also edge that could scare the heck out of someone. That was my pick, personally... |
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Post by atp on Feb 10, 2023 14:42:55 GMT -5
Yes, Ray Liotta would have been perfect
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Post by atp on Feb 10, 2023 14:45:08 GMT -5
I also wonder how Robert Patrick (the T-1000) would have fared as Batman.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 10, 2023 14:49:28 GMT -5
Donner may have cast Mel Gibson as Bruce Wayne / Batman. And he would have been pretty good in the role. I’m pretty sure Donner said years later that he might have made a Batman movie with Gibson if he’d been given the chance. It’s like Bond. So many people were up for what ended up being the 89 Batman in its various incarnations. Pierce Brosnan was a choice for Batman and he recently talked about it. Brosnan had the classic looks but I’m not sure he could’ve shaken the accent. Out of all the known names I think Alec Baldwin was one of the best choices. He wasn’t as tall as Brosnan but he also had the looks and he’d worked with Burton before. He also had what could have worked as a good Batman voice. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 10, 2023 14:51:28 GMT -5
Donner may have cast Mel Gibson as Bruce Wayne / Batman. And he would have been pretty good in the role. It's possible- I know he said (but I assume jokingly) that he would have done a reboot of Supes with Mel.... but, I had my eye right away on a young Ray Liotta as Bruce Wayne/Batman as in Goodfellas. He was good looking but definitely had both an innocence but also edge that could scare the heck out of someone. That was my pick, personally... I know it’s typecasting but Liotta as a Batman villain is where it was at. Imagine him as Two Face back then. That’s a no brainer. Heck imagine him as Joker. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 10, 2023 15:00:44 GMT -5
Donner said that he was offered every superhero project after "Superman", but didn't accept mostly because he felt he wouldn't be able to top (or match) what he had done before. BUT- What if he said 'yes' instead? Donner was more than capable to bring the dark (Omen, the Jor-el parts of STM as a quick example)- so it would have been interesting to see what he would have done. To me, the first two Batman Nolan films (fortunately with Donner DNA) are the definitive Batman films for me- but if Donner had done them back then, my own assumptions: #1: Giant hit all over again- #2: It would have started production earlier than when Burton's Batman came out (89)-- #3: There would have been a far better possibility for a Batman/Superman crossover under Donner with Reeve (I really don't think Donner would have chosen Keaton, as interesting as Keaton is on his own) #4: Donner might have made Batman 'his' franchise- and extend it to being the Kevin Feige of the DCEU back then. Agree? Disagree? It's all speculation on my part. Thoughts? I think Donner probably would have made a better movie than Burtons (imagine him using Tom Mankiewicz’s script for The Batman) but Burtons movie is the one that needed to happen for it to be a hit. The style and visuals for that movie had such an impact and they were able to use that to sell the film to audiences and get them excited. Over 33 years later I still remember how struck I was by Batman and its marketing blitz. It was Batman and yet it wasn’t. I’d never seen anything like it. Donner’s movie would have been so different. Different casting like you say, different production design, music, everything. Maybe Nicholson would have carried over since his name floated around the movie for years but that’s it. Also I can only imagine how much Donner would have clashed with Jon Peters. Donner had more clout than Burton did back then and a longer relationship with Warner Brothers but I still don’t see him putting up with Peters bullsh!t. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 10, 2023 15:41:21 GMT -5
Donner may have cast Mel Gibson as Bruce Wayne / Batman. And he would have been pretty good in the role. I’m pretty sure Donner said years later that he might have made a Batman movie with Gibson if he’d been given the chance. It’s like Bond. So many people were up for what ended up being the 89 Batman in its various incarnations. Pierce Brosnan was a choice for Batman and he recently talked about it. Brosnan had the classic looks but I’m not sure he could’ve shaken the accent. Out of all the known names I think Alec Baldwin was one of the best choices. He wasn’t as tall as Brosnan but he also had the looks and he’d worked with Burton before. He also had what could have worked as a good Batman voice. I thought it was if Donner did the reboot or was offered a continuation for Superman - that he would have used Mel (which to me still feels like a strange choice- maybe it's because Mel was established as Riggs in the Lethal Weapon series by this point)... but, I could totally be wrong. Brosnan would have been an ok choice, but I still like my choice of Liotta.... though I'm sure the studio still wanted a BIT of a name and not an unknown- even though it worked for STM in spades. Alec Baldwin in "The Shadow" to me suprisingly was one of the best things in that (bad) film- He might have been interesting as Wayne. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 10, 2023 15:42:11 GMT -5
Yes, Ray Liotta would have been perfect To this day, can't think of anyone else (in that time era) that I would have loved to see in that role. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 10, 2023 15:48:08 GMT -5
Donner said that he was offered every superhero project after "Superman", but didn't accept mostly because he felt he wouldn't be able to top (or match) what he had done before. BUT- What if he said 'yes' instead? Donner was more than capable to bring the dark (Omen, the Jor-el parts of STM as a quick example)- so it would have been interesting to see what he would have done. To me, the first two Batman Nolan films (fortunately with Donner DNA) are the definitive Batman films for me- but if Donner had done them back then, my own assumptions: #1: Giant hit all over again- #2: It would have started production earlier than when Burton's Batman came out (89)-- #3: There would have been a far better possibility for a Batman/Superman crossover under Donner with Reeve (I really don't think Donner would have chosen Keaton, as interesting as Keaton is on his own) #4: Donner might have made Batman 'his' franchise- and extend it to being the Kevin Feige of the DCEU back then. Agree? Disagree? It's all speculation on my part. Thoughts? I think Donner probably would have made a better movie than Burtons (imagine him using Tom Mankiewicz’s script for The Batman) but Burtons movie is the one that needed to happen for it to be a hit. The style and visuals for that movie had such an impact and they were able to use that to sell the film to audiences and get them excited. Over 33 years later I still remember how struck I was by Batman and its marketing blitz. It was Batman and yet it wasn’t. I’d never seen anything like it. Donner’s movie would have been so different. Different casting like you say, different production design, music, everything. Maybe Nicholson would have carried over since his name floated around the movie for years but that’s it. Also I can only imagine how much Donner would have clashed with Jon Peters. Donner had more clout than Burton did back then and a longer relationship with Warner Brothers but I still don’t see him putting up with Peters bullsh!t. My main issue with the Burton movie is the script, which (not suprisingly) was constantly being re-written as I believe there was a writer's strike going on. Burton's heart isn't really into action (though the sequel Batman Returns had better action)- and so many of BUrton's films seem to enjoy wild shifts in tone- that- while Donner also had intentional shifts, there was a sincerity to the heroics of Superman that I think Donner would have included with Batman. Plus, again, Donner's ability to do dark would have been interesting- I can picture a lot of similarities to STM in quality- but.... less comedy, more dark like in the first portion of STM with Krypton/whatnot. THanks for sharing your experience with Batman 89. I did love the excitement over it on the ground and hearing people who weren't familiar with the comic bowled over by it in overheard conversations, but was disappointed but enjoyed Batman Returns more. But--- now than the 'definitive' (in my mind) Batman origin movie was done by Nolan, I appreciate Burton's stuff more as an "elseworlds" Batman. |
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 10, 2023 15:51:47 GMT -5
There was also Jeff Fahey. At that time, he could also have been good as Batman / Bruce Wayne
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Feb 10, 2023 16:53:11 GMT -5
Schwarzenegger as Bane  |
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 11, 2023 6:26:16 GMT -5
Donner definitely would have turned in quality work that matches his body of work, but I doubt that it would have made as much of an impact as Burton’s film eventually did. It seemed throughout all of Batman’s decade long development phase that Superman was being eyed as the template to follow, but eventually they went their own route to make it their own with the highly stylized approach.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 11, 2023 21:58:30 GMT -5
Donner definitely would have turned in quality work that matches his body of work, but I doubt that it would have made as much of an impact as Burton’s film eventually did. It seemed throughout all of Batman’s decade long development phase that Superman was being eyed as the template to follow, but eventually they went their own route to make it their own with the highly stylized approach. I think it's nice that- even if Donner didn't direct more than one superhero film - that filmmakers credit Donner as the touchstone to make thier own superhero films. Nolan, Raimi, and Feige acknowledge Donner's impact. I did like Batman Returns- but didn't love it. For good and bad, every Burton film has his quirkiness build into it. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 0:20:54 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure Donner said years later that he might have made a Batman movie with Gibson if he’d been given the chance. It’s like Bond. So many people were up for what ended up being the 89 Batman in its various incarnations. Pierce Brosnan was a choice for Batman and he recently talked about it. Brosnan had the classic looks but I’m not sure he could’ve shaken the accent. Out of all the known names I think Alec Baldwin was one of the best choices. He wasn’t as tall as Brosnan but he also had the looks and he’d worked with Burton before. He also had what could have worked as a good Batman voice. I thought it was if Donner did the reboot or was offered a continuation for Superman - that he would have used Mel (which to me still feels like a strange choice- maybe it's because Mel was established as Riggs in the Lethal Weapon series by this point)... but, I could totally be wrong. Brosnan would have been an ok choice, but I still like my choice of Liotta.... though I'm sure the studio still wanted a BIT of a name and not an unknown- even though it worked for STM in spades. Alec Baldwin in "The Shadow" to me suprisingly was one of the best things in that (bad) film- He might have been interesting as Wayne. I think Liotta would have made a better Joker. Typecasting but he had an edge to him that offered more than the standard hero role. Him as Harvey Dent also seems too good to pass up. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 0:22:42 GMT -5
Donner definitely would have turned in quality work that matches his body of work, but I doubt that it would have made as much of an impact as Burton’s film eventually did. It seemed throughout all of Batman’s decade long development phase that Superman was being eyed as the template to follow, but eventually they went their own route to make it their own with the highly stylized approach. I think it's nice that- even if Donner didn't direct more than one superhero film - that filmmakers credit Donner as the touchstone to make thier own superhero films. Nolan, Raimi, and Feige acknowledge Donner's impact. I did like Batman Returns- but didn't love it. For good and bad, every Burton film has his quirkiness build into it. That’s Donner's Legacy in the superhero world. His long term influence. Much like Williams I can see why he never felt a need to absolutely do something else in that world. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 0:26:10 GMT -5
Schwarzenegger as Bane Dave Bautista really wanted to play Bane but it’s seemingly confirmed that’s off the table now. By the man himself. He’s too long in the tooth for a long term commitment. If you could take the Bautista of 20 years ago and the physique he had then and give him the acting experience he has now he’d be a pretty impressive Bane. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 15, 2023 3:25:55 GMT -5
I think it's nice that- even if Donner didn't direct more than one superhero film - that filmmakers credit Donner as the touchstone to make thier own superhero films. Nolan, Raimi, and Feige acknowledge Donner's impact. I did like Batman Returns- but didn't love it. For good and bad, every Burton film has his quirkiness build into it. That’s Donner's Legacy in the superhero world. His long term influence. Much like Williams I can see why he never felt a need to absolutely do something else in that world. True.... he didn't NEED to.... but I would have loved to have seen him make some other DC origin films. Maverick and Conspiracy Theory and the like were fun, but--- there are plenty of other good directors that could have done those- but those who can make a truly great comic book movie still seem hard to come by, even with the resources behind them. (I would love to have seen him maybe do a Neal Adams' inspired Green Lantern/Green Arrow movie!) |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 15:58:32 GMT -5
That’s Donner's Legacy in the superhero world. His long term influence. Much like Williams I can see why he never felt a need to absolutely do something else in that world. True.... he didn't NEED to.... but I would have loved to have seen him make some other DC origin films. Maverick and Conspiracy Theory and the like were fun, but--- there are plenty of other good directors that could have done those- but those who can make a truly great comic book movie still seem hard to come by, even with the resources behind them. (I would love to have seen him maybe do a Neal Adams' inspired Green Lantern/Green Arrow movie!) I think most fans would have loved it if he did. But I can see why he didn’t feel the need to push hard for it. If he had revisited the comic book genre I would have wanted him to go for something different from Superman. Something more street level and not fantasy or cosmic. Something less big than Batman. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 15, 2023 20:40:28 GMT -5
True.... he didn't NEED to.... but I would have loved to have seen him make some other DC origin films. Maverick and Conspiracy Theory and the like were fun, but--- there are plenty of other good directors that could have done those- but those who can make a truly great comic book movie still seem hard to come by, even with the resources behind them. (I would love to have seen him maybe do a Neal Adams' inspired Green Lantern/Green Arrow movie!) I think most fans would have loved it if he did. But I can see why he didn’t feel the need to push hard for it. If he had revisited the comic book genre I would have wanted him to go for something different from Superman. Something more street level and not fantasy or cosmic. Something less big than Batman. Green Lantern/Green Arrow (Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams version)- might have been the original Riggs and Murtagh! I think Donner would have gone slightly darker- to Lethal Weapon 2 level... without being too dark if he did so. Here's hoping the Gunnverse tries to bring to life Adams' Lantern/Arrow the way I enjoyed them back in the comics, but.... |
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