Wonder who were 'second place' and 'third place' castings?

[crazy_asian_man]

All agree that Chris Reeve was the first choice by Lynn Stalmaster-

Most agree that Brandon Routh was a great choice for Superman Returns, but...

I wonder-
Has there been any news blips on who were other choices that were close, for curiosity's sake? (Besides the dentist)

[dejan]

Bruce Jenner AKA Caitlyn Jenner!

Petrou covered it in his making of book.
Page 39.

Jenner was flown to Rome in September 76' and screen tested.
Given everything that's happened since.....would not mind seeing that screen test!
This was when Hamilton was still the director.
In December the Salkinds actually had to quash rumors that Schwarznenegger was being courted, given their recent attempts to recruit fellow athlete ,Jenner.

At least according to the book, in terms of chronology , Reeve was next up with Donner newly aboard in January 77'.
Very interestingly, according to Petrou, Donner wanted a big name star!

But Reeve went back down the pile and "would be Supermen" came and went until they screen tested the dentist.

Again according to the book which is effectively primary and contemporary evidence.......it was Salkind that persuaded Donner to test Reeve again.

Rest is history!

[crazy_asian_man]

Initally, I was irritated as well that the Salkinds fired Donner after seeing SII- but- then when I calmed down and realized that there wouldn't have been ANY big-scale Superman film without the Salkinds intitiating and funding it.... it's like being annoyed at George Lucas for the prequels. (In a way)

I think the thing that really helped 'sway' my opinion on the Salkinds were the commentaries by Ilya Salkind on the movies. (Which is one reason why I really why I would have been totally open to and wanted to hear Lester's side of the story).

Recently, I was shocked to see a video where Patrick Stewart shares that Gene Roddenberry was NOT keen on him for Captain Picard... I know there's also the video of Lynn Stalmaster constantly saying Reeve had to be put back up the pile of headshots for consideration- but I wonder.... if Donner just had to be convinced enough, and was on the fence- or if it had to be a group vote (director and producers)?

We know Donner said that Hackman and Brando were signed before he was on board, but it does raise into question (for curiosity's sake) what the dynamic was for choosing Supes? (I have the Petrou book but admittedly I haven't re-read it in decades).

[atp]

Was Stalmaster one of the first Reeve Only People?

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 14, 2023 4:04:11 GMT -5 atp said:

Was Stalmaster one of the first Reeve Only People?

Apparently Stalmaster was the OG!

[Metallo]

Feb 13, 2023 17:52:23 GMT -5 dejan said:

Bruce Jenner AKA Caitlyn Jenner!

Petrou covered it in his making of book.
Page 39.

Jenner was flown to Rome in September 76' and screen tested.
Given everything that's happened since.....would not mind seeing that screen test!
This was when Hamilton was still the director.
In December the Salkinds actually had to quash rumors that Schwarznenegger was being courted, given their recent attempts to recruit fellow athlete ,Jenner.

At least according to the book, in terms of chronology , Reeve was next up with Donner newly aboard in January 77'.
Very interestingly, according to Petrou, Donner wanted a big name star!

But Reeve went back down the pile and "would be Supermen" came and went until they screen tested the dentist.

Again according to the book which is effectively primary and contemporary evidence.......it was Salkind that persuaded Donner to test Reeve again.

Rest is history!

Jenner recently talked about this. She even talked about testing in the “ice crystal” which I assume was some version of the Fortress set.



There’s no way Bruce would have gotten the role or at least stayed on but it shows how desperate they were. If he had gotten it I can only imagine how things would have turned out. Certainly would have made for interesting discussion considering how Jenners life turned out after Superman

[crazy_asian_man]

That's cool! Great find!

On a side note- saw a docuseries, one of which featured Jenner's history through the Olympics and beyond.... REALLY fascinating, especially (suprisingly) the parts during the 2nd Olympics he was part of. Even though I knew the result, the way it was done had me on the edge during the way they cut the section covering the 2nd Olympics. GREAT episode of that Netflix series (though I'm sorry I don't recall the name of that sport series).

[dejan]

Feb 14, 2023 22:36:12 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Feb 13, 2023 17:52:23 GMT -5 dejan said:

Bruce Jenner AKA Caitlyn Jenner!

Petrou covered it in his making of book.
Page 39.

Jenner was flown to Rome in September 76' and screen tested.
Given everything that's happened since.....would not mind seeing that screen test!
This was when Hamilton was still the director.
In December the Salkinds actually had to quash rumors that Schwarznenegger was being courted, given their recent attempts to recruit fellow athlete ,Jenner.

At least according to the book, in terms of chronology , Reeve was next up with Donner newly aboard in January 77'.
Very interestingly, according to Petrou, Donner wanted a big name star!

But Reeve went back down the pile and "would be Supermen" came and went until they screen tested the dentist.

Again according to the book which is effectively primary and contemporary evidence.......it was Salkind that persuaded Donner to test Reeve again.

Rest is history!

Jenner recently talked about this. She even talked about testing in the “ice crystal” which I assume was some version of the Fortress set.



There’s no way Bruce would have gotten the role or at least stayed on but it shows how desperate they were. If he had gotten it I can only imagine how things would have turned out. Certainly would have made for interesting discussion considering how Jenners life turned out after Superman

Thanks for that Metallo.
Nice find.

According to Petrou, Jenner was screen tested.
So somewhere in some vault, that footage is lying around just waiting to be re-analysed.
It could be that Thau discovered that stuff way back in 2001 but did not deem it a significant find-which would make sense.
And probably at that time point(late 90s), the dentist's test/performance was probably more of a curiosity than Jenner's turn as Supes.  

But given Jenner's tranformation since then.....all of a sudden it adds more weight to his screen test, at least in my opinion. 

But I think we might be in similar territory to Eric Stoltz's turn as Marty in Back To The Future as to why Jenner's screen test footage won't be released(even if Stoltz's footage actually constituted part of an actual movie....as opposed to a rehearsal/screen test-which is the case with Jenner).

Stoltz's footage won't be released so as not to offend the actor's artistic sensibilities/integrity(and maybe some contractual obligations too).

Jenner's footage won't be released  due to the cultural/sociological implications that it may hold.
Of course, it might be the case that Jenner's footage has been well and truly lost.....or it was by found by Thau but was so bad it was simply not worth showing(even before Bruce became Caitlyn).

Still, I find it amusing that Jenner actually  referenced that test on the quiz show. 

Of course when all is said and done, Reeve was the best choice.
The rest is history.
 
As an aside, good catch there with the ice crystal reference.
I have to double check, but Thau never revealed any fortress footage from the Rome shoot.
Jenner also says he(she?) had some confrontations with Luthor.
Not sure if Hackman was available or took part in any of the Rome schedule......most likely Jenner was acting against a stand in for Lex......but it's all very intriguing nontheless.  

[dejan]

Feb 13, 2023 18:46:32 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Initally, I was irritated as well that the Salkinds fired Donner after seeing SII- but- then when I calmed down and realized that there wouldn't have been ANY big-scale Superman film without the Salkinds intitiating and funding it.... it's like being annoyed at George Lucas for the prequels. (In a way)

I think the thing that really helped 'sway' my opinion on the Salkinds were the commentaries by Ilya Salkind on the movies. (Which is one reason why I really why I would have been totally open to and wanted to hear Lester's side of the story).

Recently, I was shocked to see a video where Patrick Stewart shares that Gene Roddenberry was NOT keen on him for Captain Picard... I know there's also the video of Lynn Stalmaster constantly saying Reeve had to be put back up the pile of headshots for consideration- but I wonder.... if Donner just had to be convinced enough, and was on the fence- or if it had to be a group vote (director and producers)?

We know Donner said that Hackman and Brando were signed before he was on board, but it does raise into question (for curiosity's sake) what the dynamic was for choosing Supes? (I have the Petrou book but admittedly I haven't re-read it in decades).

If you go on SII.com(you probably already have!-lol) , they have compiled a hefty load of contemporary articles from the time period.

One article was by Siskel himself....when he covered the Niagra Falls SII theatrical press kit/special screening.
Siskel interviewed Reeve.

Dated July 17th 1981.

Reeve declares to Siskel:
"The credit for my casting goes to Donner. The Salkinds did not want me but Donner kept pulling my composite(photo album) out of the "out basket" and putting it in their pile-he must have seen some potential in me because I only weighed 190 pounds back then".

This flies in the face of Petrou's account which states quite emphatically that it was the Salkinds that had to convince Donner!

The plot was thickening way back then!

Ofcourse Petrou was hired by the Salkinds and may have had a bias towards his employers in terms of conveying their artistic integrity towards deciphering the right actor for Supes.

Although as of late 1978/early 79'....when Petrou's book was officially released-there was no "political" advantage to declaring the Salkind's genius(over Donner's) in discovering Reeve.
The public was blissfully unaware of the disparity between Donner and the Salkind's vision for Supes.....even if there had been some declarations in the press about some production difficulties.

But by the time of the  Siskel article in 81'.....maybe there was some antagonism/animosity towards the Salkinds in Reeve's mind and hence his declaration of Donner's role in his hiring.

Just hypothesising ofcourse.
But again......absolutely intriguing and it just goes to show how elusive finding the truth can be(no matter what the subject matter-politics/ show biz  ect ect)! 

But even if the truth suffers or is obscured-reason should not be!
And using reason.....we might be able to get closer to the truth...even if we never actually find it!-lol.
 

[Metallo]

Feb 13, 2023 18:46:32 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Initally, I was irritated as well that the Salkinds fired Donner after seeing SII- but- then when I calmed down and realized that there wouldn't have been ANY big-scale Superman film without the Salkinds intitiating and funding it.... it's like being annoyed at George Lucas for the prequels. (In a way)

I think the thing that really helped 'sway' my opinion on the Salkinds were the commentaries by Ilya Salkind on the movies. (Which is one reason why I really why I would have been totally open to and wanted to hear Lester's side of the story).

Recently, I was shocked to see a video where Patrick Stewart shares that Gene Roddenberry was NOT keen on him for Captain Picard... I know there's also the video of Lynn Stalmaster constantly saying Reeve had to be put back up the pile of headshots for consideration- but I wonder.... if Donner just had to be convinced enough, and was on the fence- or if it had to be a group vote (director and producers)?

We know Donner said that Hackman and Brando were signed before he was on board, but it does raise into question (for curiosity's sake) what the dynamic was for choosing Supes? (I have the Petrou book but admittedly I haven't re-read it in decades).

Surprised you didn’t know that. I’ve read for years Roddenberry needed some convincing on Stewart. I can imagine what Roddenberry wanted for the Captain when you think back to his original idea of what the role should be going all the way back to TOS’s development. Several ideas (used and unused) from TOS and Phase II made it into TNG so this could have been another one. Stewart has even always talked about not unpacking after the show started because he thought he’d be let go. I think they also seriously considered going to with a hairpiece for him until someone wised up.

[Metallo]

Feb 19, 2023 7:17:12 GMT -5 dejan said:

Feb 14, 2023 22:36:12 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Jenner recently talked about this. She even talked about testing in the “ice crystal” which I assume was some version of the Fortress set.



There’s no way Bruce would have gotten the role or at least stayed on but it shows how desperate they were. If he had gotten it I can only imagine how things would have turned out. Certainly would have made for interesting discussion considering how Jenners life turned out after Superman

Thanks for that Metallo.
Nice find.

According to Petrou, Jenner was screen tested.
So somewhere in some vault, that footage is lying around just waiting to be re-analysed.
It could be that Thau discovered that stuff way back in 2001 but did not deem it a significant find-which would make sense.
And probably at that time point(late 90s), the dentist's test/performance was probably more of a curiosity than Jenner's turn as Supes.  

But given Jenner's tranformation since then.....all of a sudden it adds more weight to his screen test, at least in my opinion. 

But I think we might be in similar territory to Eric Stoltz's turn as Marty in Back To The Future as to why Jenner's screen test footage won't be released(even if Stoltz's footage actually constituted part of an actual movie....as opposed to a rehearsal/screen test-which is the case with Jenner).

Stoltz's footage won't be released so as not to offend the actor's artistic sensibilities/integrity(and maybe some contractual obligations too).

Jenner's footage won't be released  due to the cultural/sociological implications that it may hold.
Of course, it might be the case that Jenner's footage has been well and truly lost.....or it was by found by Thau but was so bad it was simply not worth showing(even before Bruce became Caitlyn).

Still, I find it amusing that Jenner actually  referenced that test on the quiz show. 

Of course when all is said and done, Reeve was the best choice.
The rest is history.
 
As an aside, good catch there with the ice crystal reference.
I have to double check, but Thau never revealed any fortress footage from the Rome shoot.
Jenner also says he(she?) had some confrontations with Luthor.
Not sure if Hackman was available or took part in any of the Rome schedule......most likely Jenner was acting against a stand in for Lex......but it's all very intriguing nontheless.  

The thing is Jenner didn’t transition until years after those screen tests were initially released. They could have released that footage 15 years ago but either they couldn’t find it or had no interest and didn’t think it would be worth including. May have been more about protecting Jenners reputation if the tests were bad. What decent person would want to embarrass someone? WB’s released all kinds of screen tests before from Batman to Superman projects. I agree with you on the test with the dentist. I think it was just a humorous way to drive home the point that they were having trouble finding someone for the title role. There’s probably tons of footage like this that we may never see.

[crazy_asian_man]

Feb 19, 2023 17:29:25 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Feb 19, 2023 7:17:12 GMT -5 dejan said:

Thanks for that Metallo.
Nice find.

According to Petrou, Jenner was screen tested.
So somewhere in some vault, that footage is lying around just waiting to be re-analysed.
It could be that Thau discovered that stuff way back in 2001 but did not deem it a significant find-which would make sense.
And probably at that time point(late 90s), the dentist's test/performance was probably more of a curiosity than Jenner's turn as Supes.  

But given Jenner's tranformation since then.....all of a sudden it adds more weight to his screen test, at least in my opinion. 

But I think we might be in similar territory to Eric Stoltz's turn as Marty in Back To The Future as to why Jenner's screen test footage won't be released(even if Stoltz's footage actually constituted part of an actual movie....as opposed to a rehearsal/screen test-which is the case with Jenner).

Stoltz's footage won't be released so as not to offend the actor's artistic sensibilities/integrity(and maybe some contractual obligations too).

Jenner's footage won't be released  due to the cultural/sociological implications that it may hold.
Of course, it might be the case that Jenner's footage has been well and truly lost.....or it was by found by Thau but was so bad it was simply not worth showing(even before Bruce became Caitlyn).

Still, I find it amusing that Jenner actually  referenced that test on the quiz show. 

Of course when all is said and done, Reeve was the best choice.
The rest is history.
 
As an aside, good catch there with the ice crystal reference.
I have to double check, but Thau never revealed any fortress footage from the Rome shoot.
Jenner also says he(she?) had some confrontations with Luthor.
Not sure if Hackman was available or took part in any of the Rome schedule......most likely Jenner was acting against a stand in for Lex......but it's all very intriguing nontheless.  

The thing is Jenner didn’t transition until years after those screen tests were initially released. They could have released that footage 15 years ago but either they couldn’t find it or had no interest and didn’t think it would be worth including. May have been more about protecting Jenners reputation if the tests were bad. What decent person would want to embarrass someone? WB’s released all kinds of screen tests before from Batman to Superman projects. I agree with you on the test with the dentist. I think it was just a humorous way to drive home the point that they were having trouble finding someone for the title role. There’s probably tons of footage like this that we may never see.

I do wonder with screen tests-

Is it a protocol thing- where generally screen tests aren't released unless they contact said person to see if they're ok releasing them?

Or-
Is it a financial thing where they have to pay said actors (and need their permission)?