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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 13, 2023 13:12:11 GMT -5
If Bizzarro Superman was going to be one of the elements (don't know for sure) back then- during the Reeve years-
Any casting ideas/treatment ideas?
I don't see it being interesting enough for a whole movie, but a subplot (maybe)- if treated right in the script, some comedy relief.
The Superboy series had some fun with it.
Off the top, maybe Jim Carrey if back then?
On the other hand- Christopher Reeve was a supreme actor- might have been fun to have given him both roles and let him invent something new under makeup. (And easier to double if there were also face appendages)
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 14, 2023 23:08:41 GMT -5
Carrey would have been too young for it back then and not on most peoples radar. It depends on which version of bizarro we are talking about. Pre crisis Bizarro world Bizarro? Byrne’s Post crisis clone Bizarro? Best option probably would have been Reeve in a dual role and depending on how the character appeared and if he changed a stuntman could have stepped in when needed.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 14, 2023 23:37:55 GMT -5
Carrey would have been too young for it back then and not on most peoples radar. It depends on which version of bizarro we are talking about. Pre crisis Bizarro world Bizarro? Byrne’s Post crisis clone Bizarro? Best option probably would have been Reeve in a dual role and depending on how the character appeared and if he changed a stuntman could have stepped in when needed. Reeve has said he didn't really feel challenged playing Superman- but I think there could have been a lot of opportunities to give him meaty material - one of which might have been Bizzaro (though I guess it could be argued that Nuclear Man was sort of Bizzaro). |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 0:34:58 GMT -5
Carrey would have been too young for it back then and not on most peoples radar. It depends on which version of bizarro we are talking about. Pre crisis Bizarro world Bizarro? Byrne’s Post crisis clone Bizarro? Best option probably would have been Reeve in a dual role and depending on how the character appeared and if he changed a stuntman could have stepped in when needed. Reeve has said he didn't really feel challenged playing Superman- but I think there could have been a lot of opportunities to give him meaty material - one of which might have been Bizzaro (though I guess it could be argued that Nuclear Man was sort of Bizzaro). I agree. That’s why despite III’s problems he seemed to be proud of the evil Superman stuff. Reeve came along right when Superman was getting those great stories they could mine for inspiration but back then they didn’t seem to interested in adapting things beyond the broader aspects. Bits and pieces. I think that’s why he wanted a story like IV. It had something more to say and a moral dilemma for Superman. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 15, 2023 3:15:41 GMT -5
Reeve has said he didn't really feel challenged playing Superman- but I think there could have been a lot of opportunities to give him meaty material - one of which might have been Bizzaro (though I guess it could be argued that Nuclear Man was sort of Bizzaro). I agree. That’s why despite III’s problems he seemed to be proud of the evil Superman stuff. Reeve came along right when Superman was getting those great stories they could mine for inspiration but back then they didn’t seem to interested in adapting things beyond the broader aspects. Bits and pieces. I think that’s why he wanted a story like IV. It had something more to say and a moral dilemma for Superman. Honestly- for my tastes- if SIII had to be cheaper cheaper cheaper- then it could have gone for a stronger character story to overcome not having any real jaw-dropping sequences (though I know a number of folks love the Clark vs. Evil Supes sequence) - for my tastes. But... the bar and intents seemed to want to have the story be broad and (somewhat) kid friendly. Nothing too sophisticated - but, conversely, nothing too challenging acting-wise. Some fun stuff with Evil Supes, but the script (and direction) hardly had a lot of layers for Reeve to have to stretch his acting muscles too hard, it seems. (He was still great in it- but, the script could have been stronger to challenge him.) |
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Post by atp on Feb 15, 2023 4:28:15 GMT -5
I agree. That’s why despite III’s problems he seemed to be proud of the evil Superman stuff. Reeve came along right when Superman was getting those great stories they could mine for inspiration but back then they didn’t seem to interested in adapting things beyond the broader aspects. Bits and pieces. I think that’s why he wanted a story like IV. It had something more to say and a moral dilemma for Superman. Honestly- for my tastes- if SIII had to be cheaper cheaper cheaper- then it could have gone for a stronger character story to overcome not having any real jaw-dropping sequences (though I know a number of folks love the Clark vs. Evil Supes sequence) - for my tastes. But... the bar and intents seemed to want to have the story be broad and (somewhat) kid friendly. Nothing too sophisticated - but, conversely, nothing too challenging acting-wise. Some fun stuff with Evil Supes, but the script (and direction) hardly had a lot of layers for Reeve to have to stretch his acting muscles too hard, it seems. (He was still great in it- but, the script could have been stronger to challenge him.) I think S3 did have a couple of new layers for Reeve. The evil Superman was the one we all think of. But I was also impressed by the way he played Clark in Smallville, especially with Lana. That character was quite different to the Clark that he plays at the Daily Planet. With Lana, he is the one who is more worldly and self-assured -- an inverse of the relationship between Clark and Lois. And he was also pretty assertive with Brad during the bowling scene. So in STM/S2, Reeve plays two characters, while in S3, he actually plays three. Or four, if you count Clark twice 😆 |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 15:43:34 GMT -5
I agree. That’s why despite III’s problems he seemed to be proud of the evil Superman stuff. Reeve came along right when Superman was getting those great stories they could mine for inspiration but back then they didn’t seem to interested in adapting things beyond the broader aspects. Bits and pieces. I think that’s why he wanted a story like IV. It had something more to say and a moral dilemma for Superman. Honestly- for my tastes- if SIII had to be cheaper cheaper cheaper- then it could have gone for a stronger character story to overcome not having any real jaw-dropping sequences (though I know a number of folks love the Clark vs. Evil Supes sequence) - for my tastes. But... the bar and intents seemed to want to have the story be broad and (somewhat) kid friendly. Nothing too sophisticated - but, conversely, nothing too challenging acting-wise. Some fun stuff with Evil Supes, but the script (and direction) hardly had a lot of layers for Reeve to have to stretch his acting muscles too hard, it seems. (He was still great in it- but, the script could have been stronger to challenge him.) The wrong people were involved to ever deliver the kind of story you’re talking about. What we got had some strong story and character potential but it just wasn’t developed well enough by the right people. It was better than what they were initially developing though. I think for that era the best we could have hoped for was the level of drama we got in Donner’s version of Superman II. At the time superhero material just wasn’t seen as much more beyond that by the decision makers behind the movies. |
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Post by Metallo on Feb 15, 2023 15:49:47 GMT -5
Honestly- for my tastes- if SIII had to be cheaper cheaper cheaper- then it could have gone for a stronger character story to overcome not having any real jaw-dropping sequences (though I know a number of folks love the Clark vs. Evil Supes sequence) - for my tastes. But... the bar and intents seemed to want to have the story be broad and (somewhat) kid friendly. Nothing too sophisticated - but, conversely, nothing too challenging acting-wise. Some fun stuff with Evil Supes, but the script (and direction) hardly had a lot of layers for Reeve to have to stretch his acting muscles too hard, it seems. (He was still great in it- but, the script could have been stronger to challenge him.) I think S3 did have a couple of new layers for Reeve. The evil Superman was the one we all think of. But I was also impressed by the way he played Clark in Smallville, especially with Lana. That character was quite different to the Clark that he plays at the Daily Planet. With Lana, he is the one who is more worldly and self-assured -- an inverse of the relationship between Clark and Lois. And he was also pretty assertive with Brad during the bowling scene. So in STM/S2, Reeve plays two characters, while in S3, he actually plays three. Or four, if you count Clark twice 😆 I agree. The Lana and Evil Superman stuff was more than interesting enough. The best parts of the film. If the rest of the movie had been up to the level of those parts it would have been far better. Reeve got to play Clark as less bumbling and if he did do it it was in a different environment. He got to try some different things. The evil Superman stuff in Superman III is far more interesting psychologically than the evil Superman stuff in Zack Snyder’s films. Superman III’s take has an element of self loathing and examination of two personas of the main character that can be dissected and discussed. In BvS and ZS’s JL the evil Superman is just a mindless angry grief driven mentally compromised destroyer. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 15, 2023 20:50:34 GMT -5
Honestly- for my tastes- if SIII had to be cheaper cheaper cheaper- then it could have gone for a stronger character story to overcome not having any real jaw-dropping sequences (though I know a number of folks love the Clark vs. Evil Supes sequence) - for my tastes. But... the bar and intents seemed to want to have the story be broad and (somewhat) kid friendly. Nothing too sophisticated - but, conversely, nothing too challenging acting-wise. Some fun stuff with Evil Supes, but the script (and direction) hardly had a lot of layers for Reeve to have to stretch his acting muscles too hard, it seems. (He was still great in it- but, the script could have been stronger to challenge him.) I think S3 did have a couple of new layers for Reeve. The evil Superman was the one we all think of. But I was also impressed by the way he played Clark in Smallville, especially with Lana. That character was quite different to the Clark that he plays at the Daily Planet. With Lana, he is the one who is more worldly and self-assured -- an inverse of the relationship between Clark and Lois. And he was also pretty assertive with Brad during the bowling scene. So in STM/S2, Reeve plays two characters, while in S3, he actually plays three. Or four, if you count Clark twice 😆 Reeve (and Annette O'Toole) had the talent, but the script really didn't put their gifts to the best use.... or else it needed a Donner to add more depth to it. The balcony/interview scene in STM was mildly funny as written - but all the small moments and nuances that Donner directed into it make that scene a classic. Like McClure said, "With Donner, you find things (in a scene)"- which is why I thought the first two Lethal Weapon movies were so much better than they had any right to be. (The 3rd and 4th have their own issues don't want to get into here.) Still- yeah, Reeve and O'Toole were great with meh material... but it could have been so much MORE with a better script! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 15, 2023 20:53:42 GMT -5
Honestly- for my tastes- if SIII had to be cheaper cheaper cheaper- then it could have gone for a stronger character story to overcome not having any real jaw-dropping sequences (though I know a number of folks love the Clark vs. Evil Supes sequence) - for my tastes. But... the bar and intents seemed to want to have the story be broad and (somewhat) kid friendly. Nothing too sophisticated - but, conversely, nothing too challenging acting-wise. Some fun stuff with Evil Supes, but the script (and direction) hardly had a lot of layers for Reeve to have to stretch his acting muscles too hard, it seems. (He was still great in it- but, the script could have been stronger to challenge him.) The wrong people were involved to ever deliver the kind of story you’re talking about. What we got had some strong story and character potential but it just wasn’t developed well enough by the right people. It was better than what they were initially developing though. I think for that era the best we could have hoped for was the level of drama we got in Donner’s version of Superman II. At the time superhero material just wasn’t seen as much more beyond that by the decision makers behind the movies. Yeah- with the Newmans and Lester..... was pretty much flat drama and on the nose broad comedy. (Not that Donner wasn't gulity of bad comedy at times, but he more than delivered in bringing in the sincere heart and drama. If SIII was directed with a full heart- and not a cynic- the core would have been more of the romance with Lana and Clark- and helped raise the film a bit higher). |
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