If Flash box office fails.... is Superman doomed?

[crazy_asian_man]

Apparently the projections are low, despite great word of mouth- but if the Flash box office is low- I wonder if the plug will start to get pulled on the superhero films (or budgets start to get majorly slashed)--

Given the disappointment (box office wise) of:
- Black Adam
- Shazam 2
- Ant-man 3

I guess we have to wait and see- but just a thought (plus, it's always quiet here)

[Kamdan]

The only thing The Flash has going for it is Michael Keaton. I’m growing increasingly interested in Sasha Calle‘s Supergirl that I guarantee is going to be just a one off. I don’t understand how they’ll be able to pull off the publicity of the movie with Ezra Miller out of the picture. It’s also not helping that the director is essentially defending him saying that he wouldn’t cast anyone else if there was a sequel. Adding more fuel to an already raging wildfire.

Plugs won’t be pulled on Gunn’s new Superman since that’s supposed to fix everything and all of this is left overs from their previous attempts to fix the damming effects of Man of Steel.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jun 4, 2023 9:20:14 GMT -5 Kamdan said:

The only thing The Flash has going for it is Michael Keaton. I’m growing increasingly interested in Sasha Calle‘s Supergirl that I guarantee is going to be just a one off. I don’t understand how they’ll be able to pull off the publicity of the movie with Ezra Miller out of the picture. It’s also not helping that the director is essentially defending him saying that he wouldn’t cast anyone else if there was a sequel. Adding more fuel to an already raging wildfire.

Plugs won’t be pulled on Gunn’s new Superman since that’s supposed to fix everything and all of this is left overs from their previous attempts to fix the damming effects of Man of Steel.

Michael Keaton is the main pull for me- but from the hints of the story, it looks like he's really going to be used WELL in the story.... along with -new Supergirl- who intrigues in the ads.

In any case- from all the great word of mouth, would be sad to have this be a box office dud. If good superhero films keep flopping (I thought Shazam 2 was fine, not ground-breaking but a decent sequel and worthy of more box office than it got)- it can't help but discourage the superhero films I REALLY want greenlit/made.

[atp]

Hard to get excited about this after seeing Zod and the terraforming crap again

Looks like MOS all over again, just with a Flash pov

[dejan]

It's interesting that for a couple of us, the main pull of this film is Keaton.
For me personally, he's still the best Batman.

But for a younger audience, who have had Bale,Affleck and Pattison in relatively quick succession, Keaton may not really have much resonance.
To be fair, even by the mid 90s, Kilmer and Clooney had already done enough to obscure Keaton's double whammy as Batman.

By the early 00s , and after the damage done by Shumacher in the late 90s, people started to harken back to the Burton/Keaton axis.

Then Nolan popped up on the scene in 2005, relagating Keaton to the long lost history books, at least as far as younger fans were concerned.

On the other hand:

Whilst still enjoying Batman 89' and 92'....they were still uneven movies, somewhat tainting Keaton's overall impression as Bat.

Seeing how Homecoming redimensionalised Garfield's reputation as Spidey......maybe Flash will reinvogorate and remodify Keaton's legacy as Batman.


On edit:
The fact that Keaton already had a little stint as Vulture in the MCU......may also affect how younger fans see Keaton in the Flash:

"Look mummy.....it's the Vulture pretending to be Batman!"
 

   

[dejan]

Jun 5, 2023 2:51:37 GMT -5 atp said:

Hard to get excited about this after seeing Zod and the terraforming crap again

Looks like MOS all over again, just with a Flash pov

Yep.
 
It's like  too much candy.

Eventually it's gonna make you sick.

[Kamdan]

I’m all in for this Man of Steel retconning as long as they show our heroes do more good than all the building smashing Superman did.

[crazy_asian_man]

Jun 5, 2023 4:12:16 GMT -5 dejan said:

It's interesting that for a couple of us, the main pull of this film is Keaton.
For me personally, he's still the best Batman.

But for a younger audience, who have had Bale,Affleck and Pattison in relatively quick succession, Keaton may not really have much resonance.
To be fair, even by the mid 90s, Kilmer and Clooney had already done enough to obscure Keaton's double whammy as Batman.

By the early 00s , and after the damage done by Shumacher in the late 90s, people started to harken back to the Burton/Keaton axis.

Then Nolan popped up on the scene in 2005, relagating Keaton to the long lost history books, at least as far as younger fans were concerned.

On the other hand:

Whilst still enjoying Batman 89' and 92'....they were still uneven movies, somewhat tainting Keaton's overall impression as Bat.

Seeing how Homecoming redimensionalised Garfield's reputation as Spidey......maybe Flash will reinvogorate and remodify Keaton's legacy as Batman.


On edit:
The fact that Keaton already had a little stint as Vulture in the MCU......may also affect how younger fans see Keaton in the Flash:

"Look mummy.....it's the Vulture pretending to be Batman!"
 

   

Great point! I wonder how many who grew up with the Batburton phenom will line up to see this…. I thought presale tix would have been amazing but sadly not.

[crazy_asian_man]

Updated: Saw the local movie theatre ticket sales for the first day.... NOT sold out... and it's only a few days away.

Maybe "superhero movie fatigue" HAS set in!

"Eternals", "Shazam 2", "Ant-Man 2" have all been box office disappointments- (GOTG #3 is doing ok- $69 mil short of GOTG #2, but still $800+ mil nothing to snort at.)

Flash has gotten nothing but great buzz.... and Michael Keaton's Batman should have helped, but suprised it doesn't look like it so far.

I do wonder if it'll be a 'sleeper' that grows, but... I also wonder- what percentage of comic book fans have started NOT going to see comic book movies versus the non-comic book fans? (Shrug. I really don't know nor know where the stats are to be found on this).

[Metallo]

Superman isn’t doomed but the DCEU is. The films failure is not an indictment on Superman since the character isn’t in it very much. Public support for the DCEU simply collapsed with Black Adam though even with the much hyped return of Cavill as Superman.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 6, 2023 23:12:36 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Superman isn’t doomed but the DCEU is. The films failure is not an indictment on Superman since the character isn’t in it very much. Public support for the DCEU simply collapsed with Black Adam though even with the much hyped return of Cavill as Superman.

If it was just the DCEU, I think I wouldn't be as alarmed.... but having Eternals, Ant-Man 3 (and reportedly GOTG 3) also underperform box office wise-- I fear that the general public just feels no need to go to the theatres to see these superhero films anymore, but just wait for their streaming service to play them on tv later on.

[Metallo]

Oct 17, 2023 3:50:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Oct 6, 2023 23:12:36 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Superman isn’t doomed but the DCEU is. The films failure is not an indictment on Superman since the character isn’t in it very much. Public support for the DCEU simply collapsed with Black Adam though even with the much hyped return of Cavill as Superman.

If it was just the DCEU, I think I wouldn't be as alarmed.... but having Eternals, Ant-Man 3 (and reportedly GOTG 3) also underperform box office wise-- I fear that the general public just feels no need to go to the theatres to see these superhero films anymore, but just wait for their streaming service to play them on tv later on.

There are a lot of factors at play though: theaters still recovering from the affects of Covid, streaming and the end of the 90 day theatrical exclusivity window, and frankly many of those films being mediocre or not very good.

The studios shot themselves in the foot. by going in so hard on pushing streaming and cutting that window in half that they trained the audience to watch a lot of this stuff at home. GOTG vol 3 did very well so it's not really comparable to the other films you mentioned.

[crazy_asian_man]

Oct 17, 2023 9:12:51 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Oct 17, 2023 3:50:57 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

If it was just the DCEU, I think I wouldn't be as alarmed.... but having Eternals, Ant-Man 3 (and reportedly GOTG 3) also underperform box office wise-- I fear that the general public just feels no need to go to the theatres to see these superhero films anymore, but just wait for their streaming service to play them on tv later on.

There are a lot of factors at play though: theaters still recovering from the affects of Covid, streaming and the end of the 90 day theatrical exclusivity window, and frankly many of those films being mediocre or not very good.

The studios shot themselves in the foot. by going in so hard on pushing streaming and cutting that window in half that they trained the audience to watch a lot of this stuff at home. GOTG vol 3 did very well so it's not really comparable to the other films you mentioned.

Well, I do have some hope with the suprisingly great response the Marvel "Echo" trailer is getting- and people willing to give a try, who were formerly not interested.

I wonder with Antman and Marvels--- if the trailers just didn't show anything interesting enough or fresh enough as the main reason for the underwhelming box office (or projected box office).

[Metallo]

The Antman series has never been a big franchise but unfortunately they tried to make it one. The original appeal was that it was smaller and the stakes more personal. The climax of the first one took place in Cassie’s bedroom. They tried to make the sequels blockbusters and what we ended up with on Quantumania was a generic cgi slathered effects driven spectacle where the effects weren’t even up to snuff.

The jury is still out on The Marvels but the first one was lighting in a bottle. Right film right place right time. Hard to replicate that kind of perfect confluence. I’ve liked the marketing I’ve seen and I think Kamala will be a standout in the film but I don’t think it does as well as the first one. Not even close.

Marvel has lost a lot of momentum and it’s going to take time and work and a consistency of good projects to get it back. With Echo I think the tone and style we saw in the trailer is defying expectations. It’s closer to the approach to the Netflix shows than anyone expected. It might still be an awful show but their approach to the material seems to be right even if the execution might be poor.

[crazy_asian_man]

You were right- Kamala stood out. The rest was a mess, terrible.

Echo hopefully is good. Will see...

It's just sad that the push for rushing so much resulted in such disappointing tv shows and taint the Marvel brand so much.