crown
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Post by crown on Jun 24, 2023 12:02:41 GMT -5
Lois orders a coke with her burger at the diner, why didn’t she order freshly squeezed orange juice? I don’t get it.
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Post by Kamdan on Jun 25, 2023 6:41:44 GMT -5
Lois orders a coke with her burger at the diner, why didn’t she order freshly squeezed orange juice? I don’t get it. Because it’s a Donner scene. That’s one of the reasons the Donner cut doesn’t work for me. Thau kept all of those references to orange juice but there was no set up for it. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 25, 2023 10:22:30 GMT -5
The theatrical also has the contradiction…. But not the worst sun of the theatrical cut.  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jun 25, 2023 10:33:03 GMT -5
The theatrical also has the contradiction…. But not the worst sun of the theatrical cut. The worst sun was actually in STM. It killed everyone on Krypton |
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 25, 2023 15:08:41 GMT -5
Lois orders a coke with her burger at the diner, why didn’t she order freshly squeezed orange juice? I don’t get it. Because it’s a Donner scene. That’s one of the reasons the Donner cut doesn’t work for me. Thau kept all of those references to orange juice but there was no set up for it. Why didn't Lester dub over coke line with Lois asking for orange juice? Just like Clark's line was dubbed over from "he knew" to "they knew" |
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Post by Kamdan on Jun 25, 2023 17:53:51 GMT -5
Ron pours her a can of Coke in a glass. She probably noticed there was no orange juice on the menu and went with the side salad as her health option.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 25, 2023 19:05:31 GMT -5
Ron pours her a can of Coke in a glass. She probably noticed there was no orange juice on the menu and went with the side salad as her health option. They could have dubbed a line of Ron saying "we only have coke". Also Lois wasn't ordering a healthy meal. A cheeseburger with EVERYTHING on it and an order of fries. That side salad doesn't make it suddenly healthy. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jun 25, 2023 20:07:37 GMT -5
Ron pours her a can of Coke in a glass. She probably noticed there was no orange juice on the menu and went with the side salad as her health option. They could have dubbed a line of Ron saying "we only have coke". Also Lois wasn't ordering a healthy meal. A cheeseburger with EVERYTHING on it and an order of fries. That side salad doesn't make it suddenly healthy. You gotta remember bud...... The diner scene as filmed by Donner was originally intended to be appended to that raunchy sex scene at the fortress that Mank wrote (pretty much in the same clumsy manner that he instilled in the James Bond flicks):
So Lois was knackered after all that carnal activity...hence the cheeseburger and coke! |
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Post by Kamdan on Jun 25, 2023 20:20:54 GMT -5
That’s the joke, extenuated by Clark’s reaction.
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 25, 2023 21:49:36 GMT -5
They could have dubbed a line of Ron saying "we only have coke". Also Lois wasn't ordering a healthy meal. A cheeseburger with EVERYTHING on it and an order of fries. That side salad doesn't make it suddenly healthy. You gotta remember bud...... The diner scene as filmed by Donner was originally intended to be appended to that raunchy sex scene at the fortress that Mank wrote (pretty much in the same clumsy manner that he instilled in the James Bond flicks):
So Lois was knackered after all that carnal activity...hence the cheeseburger and coke! Yeah it would have been great to see the X-Rated sex scene between Superman and Lois when she’s riding his cock of steel and moaning while wearing his shirt. Wasn’t it rumored that Donner shot that scene? He shot the de-power scene so surely he also shot the preceding hardcore sex scene too! Maybe Warner Bros. made Thau cut out the scene. So Lois needed a Coke and a burger to recharge her batteries…. I’ll accept that. |
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 25, 2023 21:53:24 GMT -5
That’s the joke, extenuated by Clark’s reaction. No Clark’s reaction is that he’s nervous that he can’t pay for all that food Lois ordered. He went to the restroom to count his pocket change while sweating bullets. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 25, 2023 22:58:03 GMT -5
The theatrical also has the contradiction…. But not the worst sun of the theatrical cut. The worst sun was actually in STM. It killed everyone on Krypton Sin, sun, what's the difference? |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 25, 2023 23:01:27 GMT -5
They could have dubbed a line of Ron saying "we only have coke". Also Lois wasn't ordering a healthy meal. A cheeseburger with EVERYTHING on it and an order of fries. That side salad doesn't make it suddenly healthy. You gotta remember bud...... The diner scene as filmed by Donner was originally intended to be appended to that raunchy sex scene at the fortress that Mank wrote (pretty much in the same clumsy manner that he instilled in the James Bond flicks):
So Lois was knackered after all that carnal activity...hence the cheeseburger and coke! Margot Kidder mentioned this scene in either the Newsweek or Time magazine article- I am curious how Donner would have done this--- I assume it was going to be done in a very pg-13 style- like Reeve's "Somewhere in Time". I did think (and hope) that Donner had shot more of the Lois/Supes scenes in the FOS and would have seen more at the FOS by him, but... oh well. (Still, I want to see the rest of what's in the vaults!) |
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 26, 2023 2:56:29 GMT -5
You gotta remember bud...... The diner scene as filmed by Donner was originally intended to be appended to that raunchy sex scene at the fortress that Mank wrote (pretty much in the same clumsy manner that he instilled in the James Bond flicks):
So Lois was knackered after all that carnal activity...hence the cheeseburger and coke! Margot Kidder mentioned this scene in either the Newsweek or Time magazine article- I am curious how Donner would have done this--- I assume it was going to be done in a very pg-13 style- like Reeve's "Somewhere in Time". I did think (and hope) that Donner had shot more of the Lois/Supes scenes in the FOS and would have seen more at the FOS by him, but... oh well. (Still, I want to see the rest of what's in the vaults!) I’m sure Donner shot the sex scene. Remember he shot everything in the fortress of solitude and he shot Lois wearing the Superman shirt. There had to be a hardcore x-rated sex scene to make Superman giving up his powers “worth it”. In Lesters scene the wimpy little G rated cuddle was NOT worth giving up the powers. |
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Post by Kamdan on Jun 26, 2023 7:14:55 GMT -5
You missed the part where Lois said “It’s my treat.”
Was it ever addressed that the footage of Superman and Lois’ date in the Fortress was unaccounted for when Thau was cataloging footage? It’s so strange of them to have all that Lester material in there when there could have been Donner alternates.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jun 26, 2023 9:51:57 GMT -5
Margot Kidder mentioned this scene in either the Newsweek or Time magazine article- I am curious how Donner would have done this--- I assume it was going to be done in a very pg-13 style- like Reeve's "Somewhere in Time". I did think (and hope) that Donner had shot more of the Lois/Supes scenes in the FOS and would have seen more at the FOS by him, but... oh well. (Still, I want to see the rest of what's in the vaults!) I’m sure Donner shot the sex scene. Remember he shot everything in the fortress of solitude and he shot Lois wearing the Superman shirt. There had to be a hardcore x-rated sex scene to make Superman giving up his powers “worth it”. In Lesters scene the wimpy little G rated cuddle was NOT worth giving up the powers. Yup. That sex scene was so hard core that afterwards, Clark said that "my back hurts". |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jun 26, 2023 9:58:31 GMT -5
Was it ever addressed that the footage of Superman and Lois’ date in the Fortress was unaccounted for when Thau was cataloging footage? It’s so strange of them to have all that Lester material in there when there could have been Donner alternates. In the original script, Mank devised a kitchen, a movie screening area(for watching old Lara, Jorel and Kalel stuff) and what is called "an upper nook of the fortress" section where Lois and Clark are tucked up together. We never got to see any of those areas in the Fortress during STM. Either they were never made in the original shoot or they were made.....but Donner never got round to actually rehearsing and lensing those actual scenes. One has to remember that the fortress actually doubled for Krypton during some of the destruction(of Krypton) scenes. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 26, 2023 11:22:51 GMT -5
Was it ever addressed that the footage of Superman and Lois’ date in the Fortress was unaccounted for when Thau was cataloging footage? It’s so strange of them to have all that Lester material in there when there could have been Donner alternates. In the original script, Mank devised a kitchen, a movie screening area(for watching old Lara, Jorel and Kalel stuff) and what is called "an upper nook of the fortress" section where Lois and Clark are tucked up together. We never got to see any of those areas in the Fortress during STM. Either they were never made in the original shoot or they were made.....but Donner never got round to actually rehearsing and lensing those actual scenes. One has to remember that the fortress actually doubled for Krypton during some of the destruction(of Krypton) scenes. I vaguely recall that (sadly) the Supes/Lois scenes were pushed back for shooting later, as Hackman and Brando's scenes were the priority--- and it was presumed that (since they weren't 'names' at that time)- Kidder and Reeve's footage could be shot anytime- so, (and I'm extremely bummed about it)- Donner apparently never got a chance to shoot it on the schedule. That's why it seems: #1: We have the (extremely rushed and shot first)- Brando/Reeve scenes.... I would have liked to have seen the other takes, as I HIGHLY distrust Thau's choices in editing, based on the final outcome of the RDC. Earliest shots, either Thau edited it fine- and possibly Donner would have reshot- or- they were fine, but Thau edited it poorly. (I would have gone with the latter, but they never made the other shots available for anyone to view). #2: We have ZERO closeup shots (and only long shots of Margot's double?)- of Lois's reactions during the "depowering" scenes. #3: The only Donner-shot sequence with Kidder and Reeve is the 'final confrontation' with Hackman present (and right at the entrance of the FOS- again, with Hackman) ..... and the excellent scene with Kidder and Reeve where Supes destroys the FOS. While it's still hair-pulling annoying that we never got a chance to see all the other Donner footage- (raw or not) in the vaults.... and it's equally annoying that Oliver Stone Alexander movie got multiple dvd recuts while SII only got one (and definitely needed another one)..... I guess with blu ray & dvd sales being what they are/were- maybe we should consider ourselves lucky just to have what we have, but STILL....  * Edit: I'm actually glad that Lester did at least shoot the souffle scene that Mank wrote- even if it wasn't really shot correctly to play the joke as intended. But- again- did it have to look SO cheap? Only the souffle? No other ingredients on the table? I know Lester was known for shooting fast and cheap like Ed Wood, but.... |
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Post by atp on Jun 26, 2023 13:59:56 GMT -5
It also seems that the filming of the CGI villains going around the world (to rule it) and destroying key monuments was pushed back as well. Probably also because the CGI villains were not as big names and it was important to concentrate on Brando and Hackman. It is, at least, impressive that the script was prescient enough to know that CGI was going to be invented
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 26, 2023 14:49:18 GMT -5
It also seems that the filming of the CGI villains going around the world (to rule it) and destroying key monuments was pushed back as well. Probably also because the CGI villains were not as big names and it was important to concentrate on Brando and Hackman. It is, at least, impressive that the script was prescient enough to know that CGI was going to be invented I’m not surprised that the script knew about CGI. They were already planning to have a CGI Superman in III |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 26, 2023 18:00:16 GMT -5
It also seems that the filming of the CGI villains going around the world (to rule it) and destroying key monuments was pushed back as well. Probably also because the CGI villains were not as big names and it was important to concentrate on Brando and Hackman. It is, at least, impressive that the script was prescient enough to know that CGI was going to be invented Meh! CGI wasn't necessary to show that scene then. I would have been fine with artistic looking fx even if not 100 percent convincing.... I have to admit- I never thought the STM Krypton miniatures and Hoover Dam miniatures (even under Medding) looked perfect--- though, with all due respect- in the behind the scenes footage with people walking around them, they look astounding. (I just didn't think they shot that well,though probably the best that was possible at the time. Perfect example being the Golden Gate miniature that looks AMAZING in seeing the size of it in photos and with real people, but I wasn't overwhelmed oddly seeing it on the big screen theatrically despite the rest of the whole movie experience being an A+!). |
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 27, 2023 4:18:15 GMT -5
It also seems that the filming of the CGI villains going around the world (to rule it) and destroying key monuments was pushed back as well. Probably also because the CGI villains were not as big names and it was important to concentrate on Brando and Hackman. It is, at least, impressive that the script was prescient enough to know that CGI was going to be invented Meh! CGI wasn't necessary to show that scene then. I would have been fine with artistic looking fx even if not 100 percent convincing.... I have to admit- I never thought the STM Krypton miniatures and Hoover Dam miniatures (even under Medding) looked perfect--- though, with all due respect- in the behind the scenes footage with people walking around them, they look astounding. (I just didn't think they shot that well,though probably the best that was possible at the time. Perfect example being the Golden Gate miniature that looks AMAZING in seeing the size of it in photos and with real people, but I wasn't overwhelmed oddly seeing it on the big screen theatrically despite the rest of the whole movie experience being an A+!). CGI would have been necessary. Terrence Stamp Sarah Douglas and Jack O'Halloran may have been able to hang out in the Oval Office and chew bubble gum but more extreme enterprise such as actively "ruling the world" would have required CGI (villains). |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 27, 2023 9:43:09 GMT -5
Meh! CGI wasn't necessary to show that scene then. I would have been fine with artistic looking fx even if not 100 percent convincing.... I have to admit- I never thought the STM Krypton miniatures and Hoover Dam miniatures (even under Medding) looked perfect--- though, with all due respect- in the behind the scenes footage with people walking around them, they look astounding. (I just didn't think they shot that well,though probably the best that was possible at the time. Perfect example being the Golden Gate miniature that looks AMAZING in seeing the size of it in photos and with real people, but I wasn't overwhelmed oddly seeing it on the big screen theatrically despite the rest of the whole movie experience being an A+!). CGI would have been necessary. Terrence Stamp Sarah Douglas and Jack O'Halloran may have been able to hang out in the Oval Office and chew bubble gum but more extreme enterprise such as actively "ruling the world" would have required CGI (villains). Well…. CGI humans I don’t think really came about until around/after Jurassic Park/Terminator 2…. I think what I miss most is how Donner would have made Zod’s speech atop the Washington monument a memorable epic one… rather than the downsized small scale speech in Houston. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jun 27, 2023 17:19:49 GMT -5
@cam Agreed regarding Zod's speech atop the monument. Script calls for said monument to be destroyed when Zod is challenged by the cops, so that would have necessitated the use of some kind of minature, probably shot at a higher frame rate, so as to give a sense of weight as it begins to crumble. Would also have needed live action plates with extras(portraying the cops and the general public) to be amalgamated to matte paintings of Washington. This was a standard practice for the time.....the one drawback being the loss of resolution when both elements(matt painting and live plate) were composited together. Still would have been interesting to see how that would have turned out if Donner had got a crack at it back in 79'. Mank called for Zod's speech to be dubbed over the destruction of Tokyo,Moscow and Paris. As I said a few times in other threads, IMHO.....those shots would have needed padding out.....otherwise they would have been a touch too quick to have any real resonance. i.e in the script, Moscow and Tokyo are already in flames(and the villains are long gone or have exited the frame)......so I would have added extra shots of the villains actually causing said fires(courtesy of their heat vision).....stuff like that ect ect. Again, just my 2 cents.  On edit: Just checked Mank's script.....Non does indeed use his heat vision to melt the Eiffel Tower......so that's more like it.....Tokyo and Moscow needed the same personal touch from the villains in frame...ect ect |
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crown
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Post by crown on Jun 27, 2023 22:41:13 GMT -5
CGI would have been necessary. Terrence Stamp Sarah Douglas and Jack O'Halloran may have been able to hang out in the Oval Office and chew bubble gum but more extreme enterprise such as actively "ruling the world" would have required CGI (villains). Well…. CGI humans I don’t think really came about until around/after Jurassic Park/Terminator 2…. I think what I miss most is how Donner would have made Zod’s speech atop the Washington monument a memorable epic one… rather than the downsized small scale speech in Houston. How was Zod supposed to stand atop the Washington monument? The top is pointy not a flat surface. Also no one would be able to even SEE Zod at that height. Maybe Lester realized this? |
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