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Post by crazy_asian_man on Oct 27, 2024 13:11:47 GMT -5
With all due respect for those who do like and enjoy it...
My opinion?
SUCKS- writing and art. The choices disagree with on both ends.
When fan work that's not paid and is superior to it.... I just think DC is misguided.
If I were in charge...
Pay more, charge more - Get John Byrne to do art for the SII Mankiewicz script and then Geoff Johns to outline ones going from there- as he was a major STM fan- if he's too busy to script.
Dan Jurgens for layouts and Jerry Ordway for finishes.
(They are both available. Saw Jurgens at a local con not long ago)
If not that-
Then- photoshop manipulations, if they have the rights to publish the likenesses.
At the very least- the story and choices should feel like 'if Donner had done SII and continued'- and I remember his quote on going back to the source material. If I were in charge, I'd also draw in close likenesses to actors of the day that might have been used, had the Donner superman series continued under him.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Oct 27, 2024 13:48:12 GMT -5
I liked it. For what it was it was ok. I never had any expectations of what it “should” be.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Oct 30, 2024 0:43:26 GMT -5
I liked it. For what it was it was ok. I never had any expectations of what it “should” be. Given how long I was waiting for all the legal hoops and interest in DC to license it, and make this a possibility, I had GIANT expectations- it feels like the comic book version of Canon's buying the rights to the Superman movies from the Salkinds. In Reeve's words (sortof): "They didn't know what they had!" On Facebook, there's a fan who's doing his watercolor comic book adaptation of STM- and each panel is gorgeous (though I'm sure painstaking). This is the level DC coulda/should have been striving for, if they wanted my $.... |
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Metallo
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Posts: 17,069
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Post by Metallo on Oct 30, 2024 7:38:46 GMT -5
I liked it. For what it was it was ok. I never had any expectations of what it “should” be. Given how long I was waiting for all the legal hoops and interest in DC to license it, and make this a possibility, I had GIANT expectations- it feels like the comic book version of Canon's buying the rights to the Superman movies from the Salkinds. In Reeve's words (sortof): "They didn't know what they had!" On Facebook, there's a fan who's doing his watercolor comic book adaptation of STM- and each panel is gorgeous (though I'm sure painstaking). This is the level DC coulda/should have been striving for, if they wanted my $.... The problem is fans need to keep their expectations in check. Hope for the best but don’t assume it’s going to be exactly what you want it to be. I had no big expectations beyond something fun. How often are any of these tv and film adaptation comics ever truly great? How many regular comics are truly great these days? Even filmmakers struggled to recapture the magic of STM. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 21, 2024 1:35:17 GMT -5
Given how long I was waiting for all the legal hoops and interest in DC to license it, and make this a possibility, I had GIANT expectations- it feels like the comic book version of Canon's buying the rights to the Superman movies from the Salkinds. In Reeve's words (sortof): "They didn't know what they had!" On Facebook, there's a fan who's doing his watercolor comic book adaptation of STM- and each panel is gorgeous (though I'm sure painstaking). This is the level DC coulda/should have been striving for, if they wanted my $.... The problem is fans need to keep their expectations in check. Hope for the best but don’t assume it’s going to be exactly what you want it to be. I had no big expectations beyond something fun. How often are any of these tv and film adaptation comics ever truly great? How many regular comics are truly great these days? Even filmmakers struggled to recapture the magic of STM. Check out the samples by Ian Rialdi on his progress on his watercolor Superman the Movie comic- I think stuff by fans made for free makes me feel like WB should up their game. Pros like Byrne and Ordway openly say how much they love Reeve as Superman, why not pay them (or someone equal to them?) to do any Reeve Superman comics? Oh well. I can dream. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 21, 2024 6:48:23 GMT -5
The problem is fans need to keep their expectations in check. Hope for the best but don’t assume it’s going to be exactly what you want it to be. I had no big expectations beyond something fun. How often are any of these tv and film adaptation comics ever truly great? How many regular comics are truly great these days? Even filmmakers struggled to recapture the magic of STM. Check out the samples by Ian Rialdi on his progress on his watercolor Superman the Movie comic- I think stuff by fans made for free makes me feel like WB should up their game. Pros like Byrne and Ordway openly say how much they love Reeve as Superman, why not pay them (or someone equal to them?) to do any Reeve Superman comics? Oh well. I can dream. Fans have unlimited time and budget if they want to put effort into something like this. They have no restrictions legal or otherwise. You know that. A corporation has more money than any fan but they also have budgets and profit margins they have to hit. If a fan wants to spend as much as they want on a project they can. Companies like DC had to pay for things that I doubt this guy you’re talking about did. They probably had legal restrictions this guy didn’t have to follow until he starts publishing or selling his work. Could it be better? Yeah. Always. But DC’s a business. They have to get this stuff out on budget and then on schedule. It would be great for them to do certain things like hire certain artists but what is their rate? Is it in within the budget or would it make the comic a money loser? Byrne and Ordway are big names that have been around for decades. I doubt they’d work for peanuts or cut their rates even if they love the character. If it’s not cost effective it doesn’t make sense for them to do everything we want. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 23, 2024 0:54:23 GMT -5
Check out the samples by Ian Rialdi on his progress on his watercolor Superman the Movie comic- I think stuff by fans made for free makes me feel like WB should up their game. Pros like Byrne and Ordway openly say how much they love Reeve as Superman, why not pay them (or someone equal to them?) to do any Reeve Superman comics? Oh well. I can dream. Fans have unlimited time and budget if they want to put effort into something like this. They have no restrictions legal or otherwise. You know that. A corporation has more money than any fan but they also have budgets and profit margins they have to hit. If a fan wants to spend as much as they want on a project they can. Companies like DC had to pay for things that I doubt this guy you’re talking about did. They probably had legal restrictions this guy didn’t have to follow until he starts publishing or selling his work. Could it be better? Yeah. Always. But DC’s a business. They have to get this stuff out on budget and then on schedule. It would be great for them to do certain things like hire certain artists but what is their rate? Is it in within the budget or would it make the comic a money loser? Byrne and Ordway are big names that have been around for decades. I doubt they’d work for peanuts or cut their rates even if they love the character. If it’s not cost effective it doesn’t make sense for them to do everything we want. True- I attended a great panel at Seattle Emerald City comic con years ago that had panelists who worked at DC and Marvel on licensed properties and mentioned a number of the mind-numbing headaches (a lot of micro-managing and delayed committee approvals that didn't care about publishing deadlines as an example) you wouldn't think would be there- But- with those rules that were mentioned in the panel/ whatnot- there was definitely a sense of studios being unnecessarily counterproductive to a better product. I wouldn't be at all suprised if it was the same thing here. I would argue that fans DON'T have unlimited funds- but are willing to lose time/money to do the job with a passion. I don't think he's planning to sell this- but most likely either pitch it or share it with the world. (but I'm speculating and guessing here). DC and MARVEL are both businesses that have put out terrible stuff- but have also put out fantastic stuff, despite the same restrictions. Batman '89 by Ordway was fantastic. Logan's Run by George Perez was an even more impressive work of art. I doubt DC or Marvel cares what I think- but just like the Donner cut, I'm annoyed because it's unlikely that - with the licensing costs - that this would happen often... hence, my own feeling that the company could go an extra mile in quality, because they do put out great stuff with the right teams. Anyhow, moot point. DC don't care what I think. Just letting off steam and frustration... |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 23, 2024 10:41:43 GMT -5
Fans have unlimited time and budget if they want to put effort into something like this. They have no restrictions legal or otherwise. You know that. A corporation has more money than any fan but they also have budgets and profit margins they have to hit. If a fan wants to spend as much as they want on a project they can. Companies like DC had to pay for things that I doubt this guy you’re talking about did. They probably had legal restrictions this guy didn’t have to follow until he starts publishing or selling his work. Could it be better? Yeah. Always. But DC’s a business. They have to get this stuff out on budget and then on schedule. It would be great for them to do certain things like hire certain artists but what is their rate? Is it in within the budget or would it make the comic a money loser? Byrne and Ordway are big names that have been around for decades. I doubt they’d work for peanuts or cut their rates even if they love the character. If it’s not cost effective it doesn’t make sense for them to do everything we want. True- I attended a great panel at Seattle Emerald City comic con years ago that had panelists who worked at DC and Marvel on licensed properties and mentioned a number of the mind-numbing headaches (a lot of micro-managing and delayed committee approvals that didn't care about publishing deadlines as an example) you wouldn't think would be there- But- with those rules that were mentioned in the panel/ whatnot- there was definitely a sense of studios being unnecessarily counterproductive to a better product. I wouldn't be at all suprised if it was the same thing here. I would argue that fans DON'T have unlimited funds- but are willing to lose time/money to do the job with a passion. I don't think he's planning to sell this- but most likely either pitch it or share it with the world. (but I'm speculating and guessing here). DC and MARVEL are both businesses that have put out terrible stuff- but have also put out fantastic stuff, despite the same restrictions. Batman '89 by Ordway was fantastic. Logan's Run by George Perez was an even more impressive work of art. I doubt DC or Marvel cares what I think- but just like the Donner cut, I'm annoyed because it's unlikely that - with the licensing costs - that this would happen often... hence, my own feeling that the company could go an extra mile in quality, because they do put out great stuff with the right teams. Anyhow, moot point. DC don't care what I think. Just letting off steam and frustration... Well I said unlimited time and budget THEY want to put into something like that. Not unlimited funds. What I mean is if they want to drop their life savings into a fan project and then keep on working to make even more money to put into it they can. It’s THEIR money. Their time. They don’t have to answer to anyone but themselves. Maybe a spouse if they’re married but that’s it. A corporation has employees they’re responsible for and shareholders they have to answer to. They can’t sink endless funds into something if it’s not financially viable. Legally and financially they have certain obligations they have to meet. Not so true with a fan. Fans don’t even have to go through the same legal and licensing hurdles a company does as long as they’re careful not to make money off an IP. If I want to paint an image of Superman movie moments now and post it online I can as long as I’m not trying to monetize it. I can take as long as I want to make it and spend as much as I want. I don’t have to worry about deadlines, release dates, profit margins, legal issues etc. It’s stuff we fans don’t always take into consideration. As much as the writers and artists don’t like it their higher ups have obligations since it’s a business and that’s not always something that gives creative freedom or time. Those are the limitations that come with the business. I doubt DC or Marvel or anyone else intend to release god awful products or disappointments but there are so many moving parts in the process that sometimes things don’t work out. Even when they do go the extra mile and put in the work mistakes are made and things don’t meet audience expectations. Sometimes the effort that goes into fixing any problems that creep up along the way only make the whole thing even worse. It’s also something you have to deal with when working with such collaborative projects such as comics, movies, etc. even though they all mean well different people will disagree on what to do and THAT is what causes the problems. How many times have we seen that happen? With fan projects if it’s one person doing everything themselves they don’t have to deal with such varying creative opinions. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 24, 2024 3:45:19 GMT -5
Well... I'm glad that fans got George Perez's Logan's Run & Jerry Ordway's Batman '89. That spoiled me for life on what adaptations could be.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Nov 24, 2024 10:02:27 GMT -5
Well... I'm glad that fans got George Perez's Logan's Run & Jerry Ordway's Batman '89. That spoiled me for life on what adaptations could be. Those were one shots though. Not ongoing series or limited series. Release during periods where the industry was in a much MUCH different place financially and in terms of popularity. Different ballgame unfortunately. |
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