Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Sept 2, 2017 6:57:00 GMT -5
I'm not talking about quality so much as the direction they went. DD03 looked too slick for the story they were trying to tell. Most of the money went to post production and the fx budget. Daredevil shouldn't be leaping around like Spider-Man...because he isn't.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 10, 2017 13:24:18 GMT -5
I'm not talking about quality so much as the direction they went. DD03 looked too slick for the story they were trying to tell. Most of the money went to post production and the fx budget. Daredevil shouldn't be leaping around like Spider-Man...because he isn't. In a number of ways, I'm wishing Marvel/Netflix didn't happen- outside of the first season, they're butchering (imo) properties in a way that we'll never see them again in live action, in my lifetime, I think....
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Sept 10, 2017 13:35:30 GMT -5
Im glad it did. They're still the best screen representations of these characters. I loved DD. Jessica Jones doesn't have a bunch of history to butcher. I was alright with Cage, Defenders wasn't as good as I hoped but certainly not bad. The biggest dog of a show to come out of marvel tv wasn't even a Netflix production. It was Inhumans. LMAO. Iron Fist was dissapointing though. I have little doubt Punisher is going to be the best take on that character on screen too. The real problem with Marvel tv is Quesada and before him Perlmutter. I still want to give Loeb a chance since it couldn't have been easy working under those two. The Inhumans were never going to be the next X-men just because Perlmutter wanted to win a p!ssing contest.
If you're disappointed though don't worry. We're seeing MORE reboots more frequently as time goes on. It was over 20 years between hammonds Spidey and Maguires. 2 years between Garfield and Holland.
He's a popular example so I'll give you an nobody character. We got a live action Human Target a few years after fhe Fox show died a forgettable death in the ratings. It took almost 20 years for the Mark Valley version to hit screens after the Rick Springfield version was cancelled. That's one fast acceleration.
These big corporate entities aren't going to let potential money making properties sit on the shelf long.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 11, 2017 16:13:52 GMT -5
Im glad it did. They're still the best screen representations of these characters. I loved DD. Jessica Jones doesn't have a bunch of history to butcher. I was alright with Cage, Defenders wasn't as good as I hoped but certainly not bad. The biggest dog of a show to come out of marvel tv wasn't even a Netflix production. It was Inhumans. LMAO. Iron Fist was dissapointing though. I have little doubt Punisher is going to be the best take on that character on screen too. The real problem with Marvel tv is Quesada and before him Perlmutter. I still want to give Loeb a chance since it couldn't have been easy working under those two. The Inhumans were never going to be the next X-men just because Perlmutter wanted to win a p!ssing contest. If you're disappointed though don't worry. We're seeing MORE reboots more frequently as time goes on. It was over 20 years between hammonds Spidey and Maguires. 2 years between Garfield and Holland. He's a popular example so I'll give you an nobody character. We got a live action Human Target a few years after fhe Fox show died a forgettable death in the ratings. It took almost 20 years for the Mark Valley version to hit screens after the Rick Springfield version was cancelled. That's one fast acceleration. These big corporate entities aren't going to let potential money making properties sit on the shelf long. I think I'm too spoiled by Star Trek: the Next Generation (third season on), Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Battlestar Galactica by Ron Moore- While all of those had 'meh' episodes, the quality of 'hit' versus miss was far bigger than (outside of DD season 1) any of the Netflix seriss so far imo. Anyhow, here's hoping Scott Buck either transforms into a Ron Moore or moves on. He's done more damage (assuming the script survived) to Marvel tv's reputation than good imo so far....
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Sept 11, 2017 20:12:01 GMT -5
Remember it took TNG a couple of seasons to get going though. I can name off some horrible episodes of TNG from those first two seasons.
Marvel tv is dealing with issues Trek never did. Namely a bunch of goons at the top who are total hacks. Rick Berman could do some things right. If we're comparing the whole franchise Trek had just as much of a percentage of bad eps since much like the marvel tv universe their shows are connected. If Tng is daredevil iron Fist is voyager. Buck is the showrunner on Inhumans right? I think he's done. It's not all his fault but his shows just haven't been very good.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 13, 2017 3:23:55 GMT -5
Remember it took TNG a couple of seasons to get going though. I can name off some horrible episodes of TNG from those first two seasons. Marvel tv is dealing with issues Trek never did. Namely a bunch of goons at the top who are total hacks. Rick Berman could do some things right. If we're comparing the whole franchise Trek had just as much of a percentage of bad eps since much like the marvel tv universe their shows are connected. If Tng is daredevil iron Fist is voyager. Buck is the showrunner on Inhumans right? I think he's done. It's not all his fault but his shows just haven't been very good. It's a little strange, because Buck had some great scripts on "Dexter".... but the script choices on both Iron Fist and Inhumans were just atrocious on those pilots.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Sept 19, 2017 17:12:31 GMT -5
You said it yourself once cam sometimes quality is more about the showrunner than any one writer. Maybe he's a good writer when it comes to individual episodes but being showrunner encompasses more. I really do think back to Berman era Star Trek on this and the differences between TNG and DS9 and Voyager and Enterprise.
Or look at Xena. Orci and Kurtzman cut their teeth on that show and Hercules but they also had people above them with a clear vision. Now when there the guys closer to the top creatively they tend to drop the ball.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 13, 2017 16:02:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 13, 2017 16:12:37 GMT -5
It would be nice if WB/DC committed to a solid plan with Batman and stuck to it. In the light of how things seem like eternal musical chairs with the superhero films, it's REALLY amazing we got a Batman Begins and Dark Knight out of it....
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 13, 2017 17:20:35 GMT -5
It was ALWAYS the problem with signing a 40 something year old Ben Affleck of all people. I got ripped to pieces for being skeptical of him committing when he was first cast and it seems like I was on to something. With BVS being garbage and JL being up in the air I don't blame him for wanting to move on. He's never struck me as a "franchise guy". He only came back to Kevin Smiths Askewniverse as a favor to his buddy and he looked like he did not want to be anywhere near Elektra when he shot his cameo.
The guy is in his mid 40s and he's got other stuff he wants to do instead of mediocre dc movies and losing chances to do other stuff that will get overshadowed by dozens of Batman questions every day.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 13, 2017 19:36:36 GMT -5
It was ALWAYS the problem with signing a 40 something year old Ben Affleck of all people. I got ripped to pieces for being skeptical of him committing when he was first cast and it seems like I was on to something. With BVS being garbage and JL being up in the air I don't blame him for wanting to move on. He's never struck me as a "franchise guy". He only came back to Kevin Smiths Askewniverse as a favor to his buddy and he looked like he did not want to be anywhere near Elektra when he shot his cameo. The guy is in his mid 40s and he's got other stuff he wants to do instead of mediocre dc movies and losing chances to do other stuff that will get overshadowed by dozens of Batman questions every day. After his latest indie movie tanked and with the Weinstein stuff zinging, he’s got to be on the fence; being Batman at this point must offer some financial security.... and keep his name and face in the public eye (in a good way). At the same time, you’re 100 percent right: being part of the dc franchise means having press more interested in that than his own self projects. Eh. Worse problems could have been had....
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 13, 2017 20:38:09 GMT -5
I think he's set financially unless he needs more money because of personal issues or any accusations that might come up. He's had issues with with gambling booze and his divorce.
I think he just isn't down for the kind of commitment people were expecting. Rereading his commments it just seems crazy he'd say this three days before justice league comes out. Must not care what wb thinks and just wants out now. I think if it does very well he might do another film but this could also be the last time we see him as Batman.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 13, 2017 23:29:23 GMT -5
I think he's set financially unless he needs more money because of personal issues or any accusations that might come up. He's had issues with with gambling booze and his divorce. I think he just isn't down for the kind of commitment people were expecting. Rereading his commments it just seems crazy he'd say this three days before justice league comes out. Must not care what wb thinks and just wants out now. I think if it does very well he might do another film but this could also be the last time we see him as Batman. Hopefully they knock on Bale's door to come back as the Bat. Batfleck writes, directs, and produces films- I can imagine you're right- he might not be nearly as hungry as other actors for this. Other actors don't necessarily want to put the work to write/direct and the works.... and/or love the character enough. God bless Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. He appreciated the character, was willing to try multiple times even some of the films were trashed, kept coming back, and always gave credit to the character and the creators. While I hear actors that do appreciate their superhero casting, I don't know of any who seem to really appreciate it more than Hugh did.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 14, 2017 8:26:22 GMT -5
Right. Affleck has been acting for like 30 years and has been in everything from comedies to big action movies. He's been part of long running franchises before and starred in huge hits. He's had a pretty successful career before you even get to his writing and directing. He's got oscars for Good Will Hunting AND Argo.
What did Cavill Momoa and Gadot have BEFORE their DC films? What do they really have going on outside of them now? They've all worked steadily but they want to go on to bigger careers which Affleck already has. They need this a lot more than he does. They want to parlay these superhero roles into other bigger things.
Jackmans a rare breed. Like you said more dedicated to this kind of role than any other actor. He never seemed to want out and phone it in. If anything he always worked to get better and better each time and he did.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 16, 2017 10:50:04 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 16, 2017 13:42:07 GMT -5
Maybe the name is.... Matt Damon. I'm curious who that name could be- but if it's not going to be Bale, then hopefully it's an unknown. For a trilogy, start with a fresh slate.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 16, 2017 13:57:14 GMT -5
Campea revealed today that Reeves wants Jake Gyllenhaal. Wether it happens or not it's up in the air but I believe it. Remember Gyllenhaal was also considered for Batman Begins so it could be another Cavill situation where he lost out before but gets his shot years later.
If it is him it'll be interesting to see how they handle the transition. Some kind of framing device with Affleck as Batman or just hand it off cold in whatever the next film is. Will they age Gyllenhal up for Justice League 2 or just conveniently ignore the fact that this Batman is over 45 in the "present?"
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 17, 2017 2:10:23 GMT -5
Campea revealed today that Reeves wants Jake Gyllenhaal. Wether it happens or not it's up in the air but I believe it. Remember Gyllenhaal was also considered for Batman Begins so it could be another Cavill situation where he lost out before but gets his shot years later. If it is him it'll be interesting to see how they handle the transition. Some kind of framing device with Affleck as Batman or just hand it off cold in whatever the next film is. Will they age Gyllenhal up for Justice League 2 or just conveniently ignore the fact that this Batman is over 45 in the "present?" It's funny.... I thought of Jake Gyllenhaal when he was younger as a viable Peter Parker! But, I think I could more easily see Gyllenhaal over Affleck. Mostly because of the timing. If Affleck didn't bring all that baggage with him by the time he was cast as Batman--- maybe I'd feel fine with him as the Bat. In any case- what a mess at WB.
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 17, 2017 7:34:20 GMT -5
Campea revealed today that Reeves wants Jake Gyllenhaal. Wether it happens or not it's up in the air but I believe it. Remember Gyllenhaal was also considered for Batman Begins so it could be another Cavill situation where he lost out before but gets his shot years later. If it is him it'll be interesting to see how they handle the transition. Some kind of framing device with Affleck as Batman or just hand it off cold in whatever the next film is. Will they age Gyllenhal up for Justice League 2 or just conveniently ignore the fact that this Batman is over 45 in the "present?" It's funny.... I thought of Jake Gyllenhaal when he was younger as a viable Peter Parker! But, I think I could more easily see Gyllenhaal over Affleck. Mostly because of the timing. If Affleck didn't bring all that baggage with him by the time he was cast as Batman--- maybe I'd feel fine with him as the Bat. In any case- what a mess at WB. Rumor at the time was that Sony actually wanted Gyllenhaal for Spidey if Maguire didn't come back for Spider-Man 2. I kinda have a hard time picturing Gyllenhaals face in the cowl. He doesn't really have the looks for it. He's in great shape right now though and he's a great actor so I don't think he'd have any problem actually playing Bruce or Batman. I could much more easily buy him as an older Dlck Grayson. I though Affleck really looked the part in BVS and I hope he stays but Gyllenhaal is a far better actor. I agree that Afflecks longer career and fame did sort of work against him disappearing into the role as easily as Bale did. But then it seems that unlike Superman Hollywood likes to cast recognizable faces as Batman. Bale was the least know of WBs movie Batman and I think even then he wasn't a total unknown.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 17, 2017 14:34:33 GMT -5
It's funny.... I thought of Jake Gyllenhaal when he was younger as a viable Peter Parker! But, I think I could more easily see Gyllenhaal over Affleck. Mostly because of the timing. If Affleck didn't bring all that baggage with him by the time he was cast as Batman--- maybe I'd feel fine with him as the Bat. In any case- what a mess at WB. Rumor at the time was that Sony actually wanted Gyllenhaal for Spidey if Maguire didn't come back for Spider-Man 2. I kinda have a hard time picturing Gyllenhaals face in the cowl. He doesn't really have the looks for it. He's in great shape right now though and he's a great actor so I don't think he'd have any problem actually playing Bruce or Batman. I could much more easily buy him as an older Dlck Grayson. I though Affleck really looked the part in BVS and I hope he stays but Gyllenhaal is a far better actor. I agree that Afflecks longer career and fame did sort of work against him disappearing into the role as easily as Bale did. But then it seems that unlike Superman Hollywood likes to cast recognizable faces as Batman. Bale was the least know of WBs movie Batman and I think even then he wasn't a total unknown. Haven't seen Bale in anything big that was successful outside of Batman.... he even expressed a tinge of remorse when Affleck was picked to replace him- I say WB should do everything they can to get him back!
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 17, 2017 16:19:32 GMT -5
I don't think that was so much about Bale wanting to come back as he said he realized he wouldn't be playing it anymore (which was kinda strange getting used to for him) and didn't feel he did as good as he could have. He's also said in the past he wouldn't do it without Nolan and right now I don't think Nolan has any interest in directing a Batman movie. Could it be more appealing to him in ten or twenty years? Maybe.
Bales done pretty well for himself outside of Batman. He hasn't been in any massive blockbuster hits like that since but then again how many massive blockbuster style movies has he done? Few if any. Bale seems to be going more for critically accalaimed films and he's done that in spades. The guy won an academy award for The Fighter which I think was well deserved.
If the rumors are true WB may have offered Batman to him in BVS. I don't remember him sounding interested in doing Millers Justice League either.
What WB should have done was offered anything and everything they could to get Nolan and Bale on board with a shared universe back when they were making Batman Begins. Fold SR into it and build to Millers JL. Have the three of them get on the same page and if Miller wasn't willing get someone who was. By the time TDK came out I think it was all but impossible to convince them to have their Batman in any kind of superhero universe.
WB just didn't have the force of will to make this stuff work and get it made until Marvel Studios released the Avengers and lit a fire under their @sses. After that they did everything they could to make it happen. BVS was in development heII for ten years then suddenly gets fast tracked.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 22, 2017 14:37:29 GMT -5
I don't think that was so much about Bale wanting to come back as he said he realized he wouldn't be playing it anymore (which was kinda strange getting used to for him) and didn't feel he did as good as he could have. He's also said in the past he wouldn't do it without Nolan and right now I don't think Nolan has any interest in directing a Batman movie. Could it be more appealing to him in ten or twenty years? Maybe. Bales done pretty well for himself outside of Batman. He hasn't been in any massive blockbuster hits like that since but then again how many massive blockbuster style movies has he done? Few if any. Bale seems to be going more for critically accalaimed films and he's done that in spades. The guy won an academy award for The Fighter which I think was well deserved. If the rumors are true WB may have offered Batman to him in BVS. I don't remember him sounding interested in doing Millers Justice League either. What WB should have done was offered anything and everything they could to get Nolan and Bale on board with a shared universe back when they were making Batman Begins. Fold SR into it and build to Millers JL. Have the three of them get on the same page and if Miller wasn't willing get someone who was. By the time TDK came out I think it was all but impossible to convince them to have their Batman in any kind of superhero universe. WB just didn't have the force of will to make this stuff work and get it made until Marvel Studios released the Avengers and lit a fire under their @sses. After that they did everything they could to make it happen. BVS was in development heII for ten years then suddenly gets fast tracked. You have no idea how much I was dreaming/hoping that Nolan on Batman and Singer on Superman would have continued- and having those versions blend into the JL. (But, in Nolan's case.... TDKR wasn't just disappointing to me, but it undid some of the great things I felt were done in TDK- so I actually wish someone ELSE took over the 'third part'.)
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 22, 2017 16:57:06 GMT -5
As time goes on Rises strengths continue to endure but it's weaknesses just get magnified. I go back in forth on the decision to have Bruce give up the cowl and go away with Selena. Sometimes I'm in the mindset that this is Nolans Batman not the comics and that it's good to give Bruce a happy definitive ending. Other times I'm like Batman would never retire if he was still needed.
Bane was great but...could he have been better? It's one thing I actually wouldn't have minded seeing Snyder tackle. Someone should. I'd like to see the true comic book Bane. He's yet to truly be done right in live action. Then there's the fact that all total Bruce was Batman for about a year and a half.
But yeah...I think a lot of people were hoping for Bale and Routh to team up on screen for Justice League.
|
|
|
Post by crazy_asian_man on Nov 23, 2017 0:50:27 GMT -5
As time goes on Rises strengths continue to endure but it's weaknesses just get magnified. I go back in forth on the decision to have Bruce give up the cowl and go away with Selena. Sometimes I'm in the mindset that this is Nolans Batman not the comics and that it's good to give Bruce a happy definitive ending. Other times I'm like Batman would never retire if he was still needed. Bane was great but...could he have been better? It's one thing I actually wouldn't have minded seeing Snyder tackle. Someone should. I'd like to see the true comic book Bane. He's yet to truly be done right in live action. Then there's the fact that all total Bruce was Batman for about a year and a half. But yeah...I think a lot of people were hoping for Bale and Routh to team up on screen for Justice League. I'd read somewhere that Nolan's original vision was for Bale/Batman to die, and Robin take over as Batman.... but that WB nixed that. GAHH!!! I would have LOVED to have seen that version. I'd also heard Bane's original voice was much better- if hard to understand. I hated the voice used in the theatrical- too "Roger Moore-Bond villain' to me. The look is great. And, yeah.... the idea of Bruce as Batman for such a short time drove me nuts, too. I really wish Nolan walked away and had a better replacement to do the Batman films after the second one. To me, the ending of TDK was PERFECT to show who Batman was! I saw it as Bruce finally committed to a never ending fight up until he died, as a final part of his personality transformation - not broken in spirit and body because of Rachel. The idea I would have liked is that his spirit became invulnerable after all he had gone through, not the idea that the world and its horrors tore him up by shreds at the end. (which is kind of how I took it).
|
|
Metallo
New Member
The worlds finest heroes
Posts: 16,847
|
Post by Metallo on Nov 23, 2017 8:33:09 GMT -5
I don't understand how WB and DC would tell Nolan of all people no but give Snyder the ok to do some of the stupid sh!t he did. Nolan should have had far more clout and trust. Killing Batman would have been so much more impactful. Sometimes they ending is fitting. Bixbys Banner and jackmans Logan proved that sometimes these characters deserve a finite definitive ending. In Nolans world Batman is an idea, more than a man. Even if Wayne died Batman would live on. Nothing would have shown that point better.
Sometimes DC's interference ruins some great stuff. I can only imagine how much better JLU and the rest of the DCAU would have been if WB had let them do what they wanted.
|
|