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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 11, 2009 11:46:23 GMT -5
Dude, I'm just debating and discussing the results. We're exchanging ideas. No? That's your problem, isn't it?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2009 11:47:16 GMT -5
HAHAHA balls, you know you aren't just discussing results.
Look at every single post you have on here after the first one. That's not debate. That's ridicule.
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 11, 2009 11:48:26 GMT -5
Excuse me, but I'm not ridiculing ANYONE.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2009 11:51:26 GMT -5
Nah, but you're ridiculing opinions. Making them seem invalid or what have you.
"I'm sorry, I just can't believe anyone would like SR over SII, blah blah blah," like it's just insane for anyone to think like that. It's almost insulting, I think.
Did you look at every response on this thread you've put? Not exactly friendly to the other vote.
"What do you like more? Careful, there's only one right answer," you might as well put that on the poll.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jun 11, 2009 11:55:36 GMT -5
To be fair Enriqueh, Kevin has a point. It did come across like you were asking for people's opinions only to then slate them for having an opinion differing from yours.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2009 12:02:11 GMT -5
Yeah, bringing up the Godfather III thing a buncha times certainly doesn't help.
Anyhoo. That's a BAD ASS Wolverine picture you have up, Enrique, I literally went, "HAHA awesome!" when I was clicking on it.
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Post by MAVERICK on Jun 11, 2009 12:18:59 GMT -5
Nah, but you're ridiculing opinions. Making them seem invalid or what have you. "I'm sorry, I just can't believe anyone would like SR over SII, blah blah blah," like it's just insane for anyone to think like that. It's almost insulting, I think. Did you look at every response on this thread you've put? Not exactly friendly to the other vote. "What do you like more? Careful, there's only one right answer," you might as well put that on the poll. Kevin is right Enrique, cut that shit out. We already suspended one person for the same crap. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 11, 2009 12:33:04 GMT -5
So, I go with the cringe factor, and hands down, SII makes ME cringe the most. "You forgot your chan...whooooooaa-whoooaaaaaaa." "Your hair, what about mine?!" "You only SMELL strong!" ;D  sorry, I don't get it. Can you explain please? |
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 11, 2009 12:46:47 GMT -5
Those are lines from Superman II. You know, some cringe-worthy ones.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Jun 11, 2009 12:52:45 GMT -5
and boy are they cringe worthy. ;D
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Post by adam15 on Jun 11, 2009 13:35:12 GMT -5
The funny thing is that all that stuff was more entertaining than some parts of SR. ;D Replace some parts with any part Ahhh whatevs, I respect anyone's and everyone's opinion on this poll However, we should not chastise anyone's beleaguerment with the outcome. Good call Enrique about the oddness of watching SR after STM and SII. |
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Post by Kal-Ex on Jun 11, 2009 14:31:58 GMT -5
We might not have all the same opinion about the movies but we all share one thing… we love Superman, the character. Debating about movies it’s only for fun, we are all in the same team.
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 11, 2009 15:41:02 GMT -5
Those are lines from Superman II. You know, some cringe-worthy ones. Ah, I see. Sorry, haven't seen SII that many times so I don't remember all the lines, plus I haven't seen it in more than 2 years easily. Besides, the cringe factor with this one goes beyond lame lines to me; it's some of the plot points and characterization as well. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 11, 2009 21:57:57 GMT -5
Ok, I don't want to beat a dead horse because I did NOT want to cause hurt feelings in this thread, but allow me to clarify something.
1. I did NOT intend to make fun of anyone or anyone's opinions.
2. I *am* flabberghasted that people like SR over SII.
3. I was trying to understand why and so maybe I was too aggressive with my probing for an answer. As much as I like SR, I do find a lot of it to be unoriginal, as I thought it went too far with its homage to STM right down to the villain's main scheme.
4. Citing Godfather III was a way of trying to make those who prefer SR understand where I'm coming from so that they may give me a detailed opinion. (I have not seen a good argument in favor of SR other than "SII could've been better", which is no arugment IMO since SR could've been better too.)
Finally, for the record, I went over my different posts in this thread and I *don't* see how I was making fun of opinions. If you think something I said was doing that, please give me some examples.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 11, 2009 22:21:39 GMT -5
It's not so much what you explicitly said, but what could be interpreted from what you said: The thing is, as Superman fans, if we do a STM, SII, SR marathon right now, I'd find it hard to believe people would prefer SR to SII. You find it hard to believe that someone could like SR more than S2, which is evidently the truth for (as of now) 8 people. So to you, are they lying? Are they delusional? I don't know. They must be something to you, because you find it hard to believe that they're they can think that. That's what I got from it, anyway. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 11, 2009 22:35:20 GMT -5
Then we can agree that some people are guilty of putting words in my mouth.
I can promise you that I did NOT want to make fun of anyone. I was simply trying to understand how a STM clone with a few added twists with little action can be considered better than an original sequel with supervillains, drama and fast pace to match.
I still don't understand because, frankly, I haven't seen any compelling arguement as to why SR is superior. And last I checked, this is a place for discussion and/or healthy debate, which is what I was shooting for here.
Instead, some people are assuming I want to make fun of them. Which is not the case.
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Post by Jimbo on Jun 11, 2009 22:45:46 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, it's very hard to quantify just why I like a certain movie more than another. It's immensely subjective, based on my own experiences and tastes. If someone says they like a movie more than another, then I just have to take it at face value. Sometimes there isn't a satisfactory answer from someone as to why they make a choice like that. They have their reason. If they can explain just why they like it, then fine, but otherwise, I just figure "so be it",
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2009 23:41:36 GMT -5
Exactly.
It's like, I somehow have to defend my opinion, and I don't feel the need to.
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Post by belloq on Jun 12, 2009 0:09:55 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, it's very hard to quantify just why I like a certain movie more than another. It's immensely subjective, based on my own experiences and tastes. If someone says they like a movie more than another, then I just have to take it at face value. Sometimes there isn't a satisfactory answer from someone as to why they make a choice like that. They have their reason. If they can explain just why they like it, then fine, but otherwise, I just figure "so be it", Beautifully put. Romero's Dawn Of The Dead is in my top 5. Why? I have no idea. Its just one of the first movies I saw and it reminds me of my mum. Mystic River's another one. It was acclaimed, but probably not considered one of the best films ever. I think it is. Why? I dunno. Maybe its cause I have a daughter and the horror that Sean Penn suffers in that movie uncontrollably grips me more than almost all movies I've seen. So, yeah, great point. Personal experiences play a big part I think in what movies you carry with you as your favs. Although my love of Indy 4 I will apologize for. I know I'm wrong, but I can't help it. Its like that crack pipe that just keeps turning up. I don't guess I have any point to make in all of this, just really liked what jimbo said there. As far as SR v SII, like them both about the same I guess. STM number one for me and then SII and SR just feel like two good sequels. |
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Post by stargazer01 on Jun 12, 2009 0:55:53 GMT -5
I was simply trying to understand how a STM clone with a few added twists with little action can be considered better than an original sequel with supervillains, drama and fast pace to match. I still don't understand because, frankly, I haven't seen any compelling arguement as to why SR is superior. Maybe because SR is not a STM clone with a few added twists with little action as you said; it is much more than that, it is an extension of the story. The bones may be similar, but the meat is very different. To me at least. It just feels like a totally different story. And yes, it feels like a superior film to SII in a lot of ways, and I'm not talking about the fx. SR like STM are just on another level of filmmaking, IMO. And sorry, but I just don't feel like giving any more explanations on why I think so. Not every movie is for everybody, I suppose. |
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Post by MAVERICK on Jun 12, 2009 1:14:54 GMT -5
Exactly. It's like, I somehow have to defend my opinion, and I don't feel the need to. Speaking for myself, it's very hard to quantify just why I like a certain movie more than another. It's immensely subjective, based on my own experiences and tastes. If someone says they like a movie more than another, then I just have to take it at face value. Sometimes there isn't a satisfactory answer from someone as to why they make a choice like that. They have their reason. If they can explain just why they like it, then fine, but otherwise, I just figure "so be it", Beautifully put. Romero's Dawn Of The Dead is in my top 5. Why? I have no idea. Its just one of the first movies I saw and it reminds me of my mum. Mystic River's another one. It was acclaimed, but probably not considered one of the best films ever. I think it is. Why? I dunno. Maybe its cause I have a daughter and the horror that Sean Penn suffers in that movie uncontrollably grips me more than almost all movies I've seen. So, yeah, great point. Personal experiences play a big part I think in what movies you carry with you as your favs. Although my love of Indy 4 I will apologize for. I know I'm wrong, but I can't help it. Its like that crack pipe that just keeps turning up. I don't guess I have any point to make in all of this, just really liked what jimbo said there. As far as SR v SII, like them both about the same I guess. STM number one for me and then SII and SR just feel like two good sequels. Well put sir!  |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 12, 2009 6:12:34 GMT -5
Once again, I feel like I'm being misunderstood.
Let me make one final attempt to clarify. I was trying to find out what things about SR made it better than SII.
I provided reasons for my opnion: I thought there better villains, better acting, a more original story.
Nobody that I can recall provided such an argument for SR. Nobody said, I like SR because I liked the story better, nothing tops the airplane rescue, etc.
it made no sense to me for some pro-SR to say, "I like SR because SII could've been better." To me, that is illogical since SR also could've been better. (I also stated reasons why.)
Again, this is a film discussion board and discussion is what I was trying to start.
We've all endlessly debated SIII vs. SIV and there's always reasons tossed about. No so in this thread.
EDIT: To illustrate my point, there's a BB vs TDK thread in the Diner that I just went to. There's more discussion about why each person prefers one to the other in that thread than in this whole thread put together. END OF EDIT.
And because I'm asking for some of that same passion in this discussion, I somehow ended up being mistakenly accused of making fun of people.
Hopefully, this clarifies my position in this thread.
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Post by adam15 on Jun 12, 2009 7:59:48 GMT -5
Once again, I feel like I'm being misunderstood. Let me make one final attempt to clarify. I was trying to find out what things about SR made it better than SII. I provided reasons for my opnion: I thought there better villains, better acting, a more original story. Nobody that I can recall provided such an argument for SR. Nobody said, I like SR because I liked the story better, nothing tops the airplane rescue, etc. it made no sense to me for some pro-SR to say, "I like SR because SII could've been better." To me, that is illogical since SR also could've been better. (I also stated reasons why.) Again, this is a film discussion board and discussion is what I was trying to start. We've all endlessly debated SIII vs. SIV and there's always reasons tossed about. No so in this thread. EDIT: To illustrate my point, there's a BB vs TDK thread in the Diner that I just went to. There's more discussion about why each person prefers one to the other in that thread than in this whole thread put together. END OF EDIT. And because I'm asking for some of that same passion in this discussion, I somehow ended up being mistakenly accused of making fun of people. Hopefully, this clarifies my position in this thread. Yeah I agree. No one has put forth a concrete argument as to why SR is better than SII. |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jun 12, 2009 8:00:36 GMT -5
When I watch S2 without the rosy glasses of my childhood love for it, I see a lousy movie.
There. I said it. And it has NOTHING to do with the "knowledge of the turbulent production". Because I realized that even if there was a proper and complete Donner version of it, it still had a lousy script, with loads of "kiddie" moments that STM (and SR) simply doesn't have.
Now, in fairness and honesty, (and this bums me out to say as well) SR continues to diminish for me as time goes on as well. But, there's a consistency to it, it knows what it's trying to do even when it fails.
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Post by SuperSnooper on Jun 12, 2009 8:27:24 GMT -5
Would love to see some of the fan edits that have done the rounds, Mavericks, Deja Vous, (Chocolate Mouse, Latrine's, sorry Top Secret joke there), even CAM's when he's finished.
Wasn't there an edit that cut Superman III and IV together?
If only Warners had the sense to opt for a definitive cut, utilizing Stuart Baird, Selutron and the restoration team behind Lawrence of Arabia, Blade Runner, etc. Treating the saga with the respect it deserves.
I owned a rental copy of Superman II before I had any of them, used to come home from school and just watch the opening sequence, the clips of Superman the movie, up till he threw the lift into space. Great opening. Even though the Pari opening isn't a fan boy (and girl) fave, it still rates high with me.
Gonna watch Superman Returns again tonight.
Can't believe it's been nearly three years!
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