Superman Returns

[ye5man]

If SR2 was more of the same of SR then most of us would wish for an all-out action MOS instead

But who knows how SR2 would have panned out? Not even Singer knows.

[crazy_asian_man]

If SR2 was more of the same of SR then most of us would wish for an all-out action MOS instead

I'd be suprised if it would have been. The comparisons that Singer made about ST:TMP and SR seem on the money....

When ST:TMP came out, it really was a transition over decades--- laying down the groundwork was important, but he just should have delivered more on the action in SR.

But who knows how SR2 would have panned out? Not even Singer knows.

I go by his track record. I'm not deeply in love with all of his films, but he's never had an out and out a 'bad' film.

Valkyrie I thought moved VERY slow, but it's still an interesting yarn based on what they were trying to tell. Even "Jack the Giant Slayer" was ok--- (the split between him wanting to do a dark 'r' film and the studio wanting to do a family friendly film really stick out).

It's not that a movie can't out and out surprise you despite a filmmaker's past history (I was still nervous going into SR, wondering if it would work despite faith in Singer--- I also have that worry with X-men: Days of Future Past with all the anticipation).... but one can only go by past work to guess the 'probablilities' of how a sequel might have turned out.

I had enough faith based on SR and Singer- but I know SR ruined a lot of faith for fans for a sequel, too...

[Keith]

Singer said in a recent interview while talking about X-Men DOFP, that if he would have done SR2, that it would have been along the lines of MOS with a major alien threat. He said it was a major departure from the Donner-verse but he said Cavill was charming.

I still like SR for what it was.. a closing chapter for the Reeve era Superman. Do I like it as much as I did when it came out? No... It's still an okay movie, there are a lot of good things in it, but there's also a lot of bad. The bad in this movie outweigh the bad in MOS. Bosworth was the worst choice for Lois, I really don't like Spacey as Lex anymore. Amazing that he was the fan pick for Luthor and it was overacted and hammy. The Land scheme and the obviously bad 3D generated flying Superman (at least in MOS it never seemed that painfully obvious that it was CGI like it was in SR) and I really don't like the costume anymore, I liked it a lot at first but now.. it doesn't work. I've seen better fan made Superman cosplay costumes...

I liked the kid, Routh (I wish he would have had a little more direction and more material to work with.. I think he would have been even better. He was just a little TOO awkward at times.) There were some great Superfeats and the Airplane rescue was pretty awesome. The moment with his son sleeping at the end was great. The Lois & Superman flight.

I'm glad we have moved on.. I loved MOS. Yeah there's a few things I would have changed, but we are never going to get a movie where everything is perfect, especially when it comes to Superman.

[Metallo]

Hilarious that MOS have us yet ANOTHER plan to turn Earth into a new Krypton.

Like someone on youtube said movies are derivative but MOS may have been the most derivative big budget movie of the summer. Like WB execs sat down with Goyer and Snyder and looked at every big sci fi comic book or fantasy blockbuster of the last half decade and told them to cherry pick the best parts.

For me the bad in MOS is about equal to the bad in SR. Some of the bad stuff in each is different while some of it is exactly the same. SR didn't feel like it was copying as many other big blockbusters though. With MOS its not only blatant but its spread across the film

[ye5man]

If Singer consciously made a Superman film to be like ST:TMP then he's a fool

[Jimbo]

Aug 8, 2013 14:12:56 GMT -5 ye5man said:

If Singer consciously made a Superman film to be like ST:TMP then he's a fool

That's exactly what it was. He assumed he'd get a pass with one movie, with the expectation he could make a crowdpleaser with the second one. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!

[Metallo]

Not consciously. There's more chance and coincidence there than anything. The two films are dealing with different threats and ST TMP is much more cerebral with it questions on the meaning of existence and purpose. Spock and Superman are question their place so there were bound to be similarities. But both are trying to be "deeper" films. Just not always in the same way. Singers films often deal with people who feel different so that goes well beyond trying to copy TMP. That kind of material existed long before ST TMP. Star Treks broad themes probably did have a big influence on him growing up. He's always said he was a fan of stuff like Twilight Zone, BSG, Logan's Run, Stat Trek TOS, etc.


MOS does look like much more conscious effort to copy a bunch of "crowd pleasers" and in the end it didn't make much of a difference domestically. Adjusting for inflation, IMAX, etc. MOS has made 31 million more than SR in America. Amazing isn't it?

boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=superman.htm

[ye5man]

Aug 8, 2013 14:23:35 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

Aug 8, 2013 14:12:56 GMT -5 ye5man said:

If Singer consciously made a Superman film to be like ST:TMP then he's a fool

That's exactly what it was. He assumed he'd get a pass with one movie, with the expectation he could make a crowdpleaser with the second one. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!

IF that is true then fuck him. I am glad there is no SR2.

I don't know what shit he was smoking when he come up with that strategy - again, IF its true.

Will we ever get a fucking good Superman film again? WB just does not understand the character at all.

[Metallo]

He made a slower deeper film. But X-men was a slower more character driven film too. That's not copying ST TMP. Star Trek: TMP was trying to hard to be 2001. SR wasn't that. I don't see how anyone can say it was trying to be 2001esque. Prometheus was more similar to TMP and had a lot of the same problems. Just replace sci fi adventure with sci fi horror.

Singers mistake was not balancing things out well enough. Snyder did the exact opposite of Singer when it came to crowd pleaser and laid an egg of his own. Is 31 mil domestic THAT Much more of a gain considering WB threw their biggest resources at MOS?

Enrique's right. They've stripped everything away from Superman that made him unique just to please a bunch if gamers who said he was too goody goody and thus not relatable enough. I'd say that's more an indictment on them than on Superman.

[Keith]

Aug 8, 2013 14:34:30 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Aug 8, 2013 14:23:35 GMT -5 Jimbo said:

That's exactly what it was. He assumed he'd get a pass with one movie, with the expectation he could make a crowdpleaser with the second one. WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!

IF that is true then fuck him. I am glad there is no SR2.

I don't know what shit he was smoking when he come up with that strategy - again, IF its true.

Will we ever get a fucking good Superman film again? WB just does not understand the character at all.

Sad thing is, it's not just Superman. WB doesn't understand any of the DC Characters (except Batman), and I don't think they'll ever understand them.

[Deleted]

WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies.

I've never seen him detect SHIT. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched shit. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth.

I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

[Keith]

That's true. I was also going to say in my last post that Timm was the only one that understood all of the characters.

I've been saying for years and still believe that Timm should be running the DC movie-verse. WB should have thrown money at him to get him on board.

[Metallo]

Aug 8, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies.

I've never seen him detect SHIT. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched shit. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth.

I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

Uh...his street/undercover surveillance in Batman Begins. His solo motorcycle ride where he found the cops in Dark Knight? He was smart enough to pull slugs out of a wall for ballistic tests in in TDK. His deduction of Kyles ruse in Rises after discovering the fingerprinting dust. Alfred didn't know what the heck went on there. There's not much be he may have done more actual detective work than Burton's Wayne/Batman. There might be more but I'd have to watch the movies again.

Didn't Keaton's Wayne ALSO ask ALFRED do stuff like get all the police files on Joker in Batman? The most I saw Keaton do was patrol when Penguin was at the hall of records and figure out Jokers poison. But that was more crime lab forensics than detective work. He's got a ton of equipment. Bales Batman did the same stuff. Never really saw Keafon come even close to a Matches Malone type undercover deal. Even Bale did more actual legwork to see what he could see.

[Metallo]

Aug 8, 2013 19:09:37 GMT -5 Keith said:

That's true. I was also going to say in my last post that Timm was the only one that understood all of the characters.

I've been saying for years and still believe that Timm should be running the DC movie-verse. WB should have thrown money at him to get him on board.

In live action WB basically lucked out when they chose Nolan. They had nothing left to lose. But even he doesn't totally embrace the material. There are far more possibilities. The Timmverse Batman is by far the best and most well rounded take on the character we've ever seen. WB on their own doesn't have a clue. The DC heroes stories are modern myths. You go too far with the gritty realism and you cut out some of the appeal. You can still make them grounded without making them all dark and totally sucking the excitement and wonder out of them. With WB its either too silly or too overly serious. They don't understand that each character has their own middle ground or their own place on a sliding scale. WBs formulaic and they are trying to apply the same formula to everything. You cant write a perfect formula for creativity. Let the creative types handle that part not the number people. That's why Marvels set the pace for years.

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies.

I've never seen him detect SHIT. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched shit. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth.

I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

Yeah Alfred having to give him all the dirt on Bane was pretty weird too. Batman is the low point in those films for me for a few reasons. I mean for TDK which is the most popular of the 3 ask anyone about that film and it's all about Ledger's Joker.

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2013 20:52:59 GMT -5 @kris said:

Aug 8, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies.

I've never seen him detect SHIT. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched shit. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth.

I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

Yeah Alfred having to give him all the dirt on Bane was pretty weird too. Batman is the low point in those films for me for a few reasons. I mean for TDK which is the most popular of the 3 ask anyone about that film and it's all about Ledger's Joker.

I always believed Aaron Eckhart stole the show.

[Metallo]

Aug 8, 2013 20:52:59 GMT -5 @kris said:

Aug 8, 2013 16:45:23 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

WB doesn't get Batman, either. There hasn't been a single proper Bruce Wayne/Batman interpretation yet. They just know how get the movies made and marketed right and well enough, but in all honesty, Batman is usually the lowpoint in his movies.

I've never seen him detect SHIT. He's the world's greatest detective! At least Burton's Wayne researched shit. Nolan's just had Alfred do it. All movies have gotten THINGS right but never the whole character. Burton's Batman is a psychopath who seems to enjoy beating up bad guys a little too much. So on. So forth.

I hate to always go back it, but it's true, the animated Timmverse nailed it completely in every single way. Why can't they just use that template? A brilliant, rich playboy who is also the world's greatest detective and martial artist? heck, I don't even need no gadgets, really!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

Yeah Alfred having to give him all the dirt on Bane was pretty weird too. Batman is the low point in those films for me for a few reasons. I mean for TDK which is the most popular of the 3 ask anyone about that film and it's all about Ledger's Joker.

That's cause Alfred was older and had more world affairs experience. They point out in the movies that he had a military background. That's right from the comics and the animated series. But Batman did his share of surveillance and info gathering and deducting in the trilogy.

[Deleted]

And how awesome would it be see Batman in a cloth costume? With bulletproof stuff under, sure, but gads, that would rule. A grey practical looking costume. Is it gray or grey?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

[Keith]

^^^This^^^^

I'm so tired of the rubber armor/hockey suit Batman. I want a Batman wearing a skintight style suit made with a bullet proof material or, a fabric neck cover... do what they did with Captain America's mask in The Avengers. Grey/Black costume or even grey/really dark blue. (Kevin, I think it's both, but grey is more common.) They need to take examples from Batman Arkham games for the costume. But please.... no more all black padded to heck armor/rubber costumes..

[Metallo]

Aug 9, 2013 11:20:35 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

And how awesome would it be see Batman in a cloth costume? With bulletproof stuff under, sure, but gads, that would rule. A grey practical looking costume. Is it gray or grey?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

Amen. I'm tired of the rubber dildosuit Batman costumes. I'm hoping that because of Snyder's male physique obsession he wants a more jacked Batman. That won't work wearing a more restrictive thick rubber armor. If they want this Batman to be different from Nolan's the first place to start is the look and costume. The suit needs a overhaul for the current age of superhero movies.

The new Batsuit should be more of a tactical uniform to perfect him but still light and flexible enough to let this Batman do more. Something like the Captain America suit. I like the Superman Speeding Bullets and New 52 Batman costumes becusee they look cloth like and flexible but also have that quilted seamed look that suggest padding and body armor.





A more form fitting leather like coal and cape could also be cool.

[Deleted]

Is Snyder actually being ridiculed now because he likes his lead men to get into the required shape?

[Deleted]

No. No one critiqued. Stop.instigating.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

[Metallo]

No. Lots of films require the lead to get into the proper shape. Especially superhero films. I'm talking about his fetishistic filming of the male form. Having it and highlighting it a certain way are two different things. He's also SAID he prefers bigger more hulking superhero physiques even by comic book standards. Even those Watchmen characters whose physiques weren't as prominently displayed were highlighted by Snyder. I don't remember Ozymandius having a sculpted rubber physique with Schumacher esque suit nipples in the Watchmen comic book series. I've heard his reasoning for it but I get the feeling he would have done it even if Schumacher didn't do what he did because Snyder basically took part of Ozys character and interests and magnified that in his movie look.



I have no problem with him wanting athletic people to get in shape. He likes to have and shoot the male form in a certain way. He's really exact about it. It's ODD sometimes how into it he gets but whatever.

This is one case where I'm HOPING he wants a more buff Batman. It would be something different and force some needs changes to Batman's look.

[atp]

I would have preferrered MoS if Cavill had spent less time in the gym and more time perfecting the acting.

[Deleted]

Gray is the US spelling. Grey is UK. Either is becoming acceptable as people become willfully ignorant of spelling/grammar, like it's some kind of badge of fucking honor in this country. Fuck! Jimbo, find our grammar Nazi kitten.