Superman Returns

[Deleted]

I prefer grey.

[ye5man]

Aug 9, 2013 15:02:16 GMT -5 Metallo said:

No. Lots of films require the lead to get into the proper shape. Especially superhero films.

Unless you are Michael Keaton

[Deleted]

Or Reeve for the first bit of STM

Fair enough tallo. I don't mind it, when you've got a hero i'm cool with highlighting their physique. It's not done as often now but was quite prominent in a lot of films, especially Sly's films.

Crazy that out of everyone who's played Superman only one's really matched up physically, Cain's probably second on that list!

[Deleted]

ps. I'd LOVE if they tried to get Batman's suit close to something like the Arkham games. Fantastic

[Metallo]

Aug 9, 2013 17:16:52 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Aug 9, 2013 15:02:16 GMT -5 Metallo said:

No. Lots of films require the lead to get into the proper shape. Especially superhero films.

Unless you are Michael Keaton

That's where the full on outer rubber suit superheroing began! I always found it funny that Keaton put on more muscle for Desperate measures than he did for Batman. I guess with that suit the filmmakers didn't feel he needed to. but he should still look in great shape. He's Batman! John Wesley Ship had the sculpted/padded Flash suit but he was way more muscular and even he wasn't even that big.

Aug 9, 2013 18:27:55 GMT -5 @kris said:

Or Reeve for the first bit of STM

Fair enough tallo. I don't mind it, when you've got a hero i'm cool with highlighting their physique. It's not done as often now but was quite prominent in a lot of films, especially Sly's films.

Crazy that out of everyone who's played Superman only one's really matched up physically, Cain's probably second on that list!

Cain and Cavill were also shorter than some of the taller Supermen. Cain was supposedly THE shortest. Easier to look thicker and not as easy for all tall lanky guys like Reeve. For some people they really have to work at it harder because of things like that. Reeve probably TOWERED over Cain if he stood his straightest. Don't forget Newton and Christopher were in great shape too only not as big. Gerard put Cain to shame as far as which one was more cut and he REALLY puts him to shame now despite being older.

As for Reeve early on...Reeve was still training though. Didn't he get cast pretty late in the process? He just didn't have time to be as ready by the time shooting began. Not like he didn't bother. Lou Ferrigno probably had by far the best comic book actor physique but if Superman's that big it presents all kinds of problems. His build was highlighted in a totally different way. To show how monstrous he was in the most intimidating sense of the word. Even Hugh Jackmans also trying to show what kind of BEASTLY raw powerful killing machine Wolverine is worth the way he's obsessed with getting bigger. There should be something primal about how he looks. I'm sure the idea of him being eye candy for the ladies isn't forgotten about either but he's playing a character were the look and physicality is way more pronounced than even Superman. Logan's the alpha in a much more primal way and Jackman and co that's why he should look like a beast. It's not only there to look good. It informs the character emotionally and psychologically.

Highlighting physique is one thing and REALLY being into it is taking it to another level. Most superhero directors aren't AS into it the way Snyder is. There's being into physiques like Neal Adams and John Byrne comics. Then there's being into them like Rob Liefeld comics. You can tell Snyder was a fan of guys like that. Snyder's a visual guy. That's why he's into it. Just like Bay with women and cars. They're more into the "hey look at this" part than the "hey think about his or feel this" part to impress audiences. They're into visual excess. Sly and Arnold were guilty of it too depending on the role (but not exactly in the same ways...not as much speed ramping and filters and bleached contrast for example) but that was just an example of the bigger is better excess of the 80s. And those guys didn't do it as much all the time. Snyder does it way more often with his films.

Many of the 80s/90s action guys were competing with each other and back then action was being sold on stuff like that kind of physicality and huge guns and blood. That's the only way they usually could sell that kind of big deal action. Not with hundreds of millions of dollars of cgi special effects. THAT is the excess of today. That's what's replaced 80s type action. You don't need a huge ripped body to be the star of the top action adventure franchises. See RDJ and Matt Damon. Superhero films don't tend to be as excessive in that way unless they are R rated and there aren't that many of those. The only guy in the comic book/superhero genre to highlight physique and style more was Schumacher but he did it more with the form being sculpted in other materials than actual flesh and blood. If he could have made comic book movies like Snyder's 300 he may have. Only with more neon.

[Deleted]

It's not much easier to get bulky because you're short, thought really short guys can look bigger due to their height, but with Cain and Cavill you're only talking a few inches of a difference.

Reeve deserves a lot of respect, they wanted him to wear a padded outfit, he said fuck it im doing it for real. Yeah he was still training but its strange looking when hes so slender in some of the earlier scenes. He was never really leaned out either but I think that's more the diet they had him on and the main focus being on adding size.

You can obviously get by without it, but I thought it was quite cool finally having a Superman on the big screen who really had the Superman physique!

[Metallo]

Aug 9, 2013 19:39:47 GMT -5 @kris said:

It's not much easier to get bulky because you're short, thought really short guys can look bigger due to their height, but with Cain and Cavill you're only talking a few inches of a difference.

Reeve deserves a lot of respect, they wanted him to wear a padded outfit, he said fuck it im doing it for real. Yeah he was still training but its strange looking when hes so slender in some of the earlier scenes. He was never really leaned out either but I think that's more the diet they had him on and the main focus being on adding size.

You can obviously get by without it, but I thought it was quite cool finally having a Superman on the big screen who really had the Superman physique!

Those inches of height make all the difference when your talking about body proportions though. That's also something you have to consider. Have you looked at how long Reeve's arms and legs were? It's also about the visual illusion. Taller thinner people are going to look more thin. Body length highlights it. Superman's also often been drawn with towering stature and Cavill and Cain didn't really have that as much. Superman for all seasons had a BIG Superman but it also had a TALL Superman who was a head above most people just like Reeve was. That's been another exaggerated visual of modern comics.

Three inches in height might not seem like much but Michael Shannon looks noticeably taller than Cavill in press promotion photos and Shannon's not even quite as fall as Reeve. Hollywood can hide if and fake of but theres more freedom when you don't have to. The X-men movies had issues with that.

[Deleted]

They all took it in the ass ... steroid injections. What are YOU thnking about?

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2013 16:40:31 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

I prefer grey.

Mr. Jefferson says that's ignorant, people are ignorant, shamone, ohhhh!!!!

[Melv]

'Gray' is the American deviation of the original English 'grey'.

For this reason above all, I prefer 'grey'.

[ye5man]

Aug 9, 2013 18:27:55 GMT -5 @kris said:

Or Reeve for the first bit of STM

Reeve was dedicated to getting into shape for the film - and it shows. The guy got enormous.

I doubt Keaton even looked at a treadmill or dumbbell. Being a scrawny fuck took away all credibilty of him being the Batman

[atp]

Donner got lucky beyond belief with Reeve. He took a chance, and ended up with someone who:

- Looked like Superman,
- Could act as Clark Kent convincingly,
- Could get into great physical shape, and
- Could make the flying look convincing, even today.

Every other contender has managed only 2 out of those 4 at best. Even Cavill.

[Deleted]

Aug 10, 2013 4:29:40 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Aug 9, 2013 18:27:55 GMT -5 @kris said:

Or Reeve for the first bit of STM

Reeve was dedicated to getting into shape for the film - and it shows. The guy got enormous.

I doubt Keaton even looked at a treadmill or dumbbell. Being a scrawny fuck took away all credibilty of him being the Batman

He was still a skinny bastard in the first few scenes he filmed as Superman was all I was saying.

Tallo. Its not easier for someone 2 or 3 inches shorter to look more muscular, height doesn't factor in, it's more to do with your body type. Cavill has a more natural 'v' shape, bigger shoulders and a smaller waist, its just genetics. I think you're being a bit harsh on Cavill to suggest he got into better shape than all the rest because he's 2 to 3 inches shorter than them.

If height was that much of an issue your Mr Olympia would be 5'4 every year and guys like Arnie and Lou Ferrigno would have been aswell giving up!

As for Keaton, fans really took to him as Batman, and he's a great actor so it never bothered me. I think their wardrobe department could have done a better job of not having him wear clothes that really highlighted that he was slender though, its worst when Vicki Vale gets into the Batcave and he's wearing some awful polo neck!

[Metallo]

Most of these actors even some the best ones tend to be lacking somewhere. Reeve was one guy they had to fake it with the least.

I'm really interested I seeing what Snyder would do with Wonder Woman visually. I've got a feeling the costume will be "edged up" but beyond that I'm still curious. Goyer will butcher the backstory.

Captain Marvel could be WBs next Harry Potter if they didn't fuck it up by you just know Goyer will. This is why taking the Nolan approach and blanketing ALL of DC with it is a huge mistake.

[Metallo]

Aug 10, 2013 7:43:44 GMT -5 @kris said:

Aug 10, 2013 4:29:40 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Reeve was dedicated to getting into shape for the film - and it shows. The guy got enormous.

I doubt Keaton even looked at a treadmill or dumbbell. Being a scrawny fuck took away all credibilty of him being the Batman

He was still a skinny bastard in the first few scenes he filmed as Superman was all I was saying.

Tallo. Its not easier for someone 2 or 3 inches shorter to look more muscular, height doesn't factor in, it's more to do with your body type. Cavill has a more natural 'v' shape, bigger shoulders and a smaller waist, its just genetics. I think you're being a bit harsh on Cavill to suggest he got into better shape than all the rest because he's 2 to 3 inches shorter than them.

If height was that much of an issue your Mr Olympia would be 5'4 every year and guys like Arnie and Lou Ferrigno would have been aswell giving up!

As for Keaton, fans really took to him as Batman, and he's a great actor so it never bothered me. I think their wardrobe department could have done a better job of not having him wear clothes that really highlighted that he was slender though, its worst when Vicki Vale gets into the Batcave and he's wearing some awful polo neck!

Sorry dude height does play a factor depending on proportions. Body type is one thing but I never said it wasn't. Jackmans in Amazing shape as Wolverine. But just like Reeve he's good long proportions. If your tall but shorter limbed and an with a certain body type yeah it's going to be easier. Put the same width of muscle on longer arms and legs and its not going to look as thick. It's going to look longer. But it's not just as easy as saying Cavill did more. There's more to it than that.

[ye5man]

Reeve was skinny when he first got the role, but he didn't stay that way for long. Keaton could have bulked up for Batman 92 but nooooo, too much work. Much rather pick up donuts than dumbbells and cake over kettlebells

[Metallo]

Keaton didn't even have to get big. Just more defined. I can understand not getting too bulky because the suit wouldn't fit but Keaton didn't do much of anything compared to how he trained for Desperate Measures.

Maguire, Downey, Jackman, Billy Zane, Bale, and a lot of other guys hit the weighs. If Zane got into damn good shape for the Phantom why couldn't any Batman before Bale? Both characters are supposed to be these Olympic level athletes so they should be in similar shape. and you look and see what a guy like Snipes could do as Blade and the Batmen all look really lacking. Snipes was more Batman than some of the actual Batmen when it came to the physicality. That's why we haven't seen as much of a definitive Batman as we've seen for Superman. The Supermen had more of the total package. That's why I'm tired of the rubber suits. Do something different. Enough with the easy way out.

[Metallo]

Aug 10, 2013 7:51:53 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Reeve was skinny when he first got the role, but he didn't stay that way for long. Keaton could have bulked up for Batman 92 but nooooo, too much work. Much rather pick up donuts than dumbbells and cake over kettlebells

What's really funny is Helen Slater probably worked out more than Keaton did.

Thomas Jane is another one. The guy busted his ass like no Batman before him for the Punisher role. Even after filming was over he tried to maintain as much as he could for the sequel

Jackmans got to be the most dedicated superhero actor working today. He's being doing it for 14 years and seems to get in BETTER shape every time despite getting older. The guys in his 40s now but he keeps pushing. He had the same problem on X-men that Reeve had. He got cast late and didn't have much time to train. Once he had the time it was a different story.

[ye5man]

What's really funny is Helen Slater probably worked out more than Keaton did.

Alf Joint trained her didn't he? I bet she could have out-benched Keaton

[Deleted]

As someone who knows about this stuff I can say that, that is nonsense tallo. Body type yes, but just because of your height? That's bollocks. Look at photos of them when they're not in the role, cavills naturally broader.

Keaton was fine in Batman Returns. Did Kilmer or clooney make any effort to bulk up? Even bale didn't both with it in either if his sequels

[Metallo]

You keep on glossing over what I said. I didn't just say height I said PROPORTIONS. And I do know that. Even people who are the same height don't have the same body proportions. You know what right? Look how ripped Jackman is yet he has the same problem. Are you saying he's just not trying hard enough? Bullshit. The guy busts his ass and really did for The wolverine. Two people can train the same way and not end up with the same look. Taller people are sometimes going to have longer limbs or longer torsos etc. that's nature.

You're ready to jump on me for criticizing superhero actors getting into superhero (which I didn't) shape but then you defend Keaton for not even trying? Lol...really? Talk about your double standard How was Keaton fine? Since when does the Batman character need fake rubber muscles to replace his real ones? He's playing a character who in his FIRST ISSUES was describe as training and conditioning his body to peak levels.

Bringing up Clooney and Kilmer as an excuse doesn't make any sense because I already said NONE of the Batmen before Bale looked the part as far as build. If ANY character should have the superhero physique its Batman. He's always been sold as the one who trained the hardest in every way possible

[Deleted]

Sorry I thought you said it was harder for reeve because he was taller. You were mentioning height as if its a factor in the type of shape someone can achieve, I just said its genetics. Proportions is fine but why mention height?

Keaton was fine in batman returns, he wasn't as skinny as he was in 89. I'm sure if burton demanded he bulk up he would have

I'm not prepared to go round in circles with this anyway, I've honestly got better less painful things to do like pull my finger nails out

[Deleted]

One more thing, when I was taking about Kilmer and clooney that was for russ

[Metallo]

Aug 10, 2013 11:19:54 GMT -5 @kris said:

Sorry I thought you said it was harder for reeve because he was taller. You were mentioning height as if its a factor in the type of shape someone can achieve, I just said its genetics. Proportions is fine but why mention height?

Keaton was fine in batman returns, he wasn't as skinny as he was in 89. I'm sure if burton demanded he bulk up he would have

I'm not prepared to go round in circles with this anyway, I've honestly got better less painful things to do like pull my finger nails out

Because a TALLER person is going to sometimes deal with body proportion issues even more than a shorter one. Taller people usually have longer limbs. That's common sense. everybody's proportions are different but really tall people are going to have even more issues to deal with. A taller person can weigh the same thing as a shorter person but its not going to look the same. No two people are always going to get the same results doing the same thing.

Like I said how was Keaton fine when even you said what's wrong with superhero characters having superhero physiques? He sure as heck didn't look like Bruce Wayne they say so many other actors have transformed themselves for their roles. Even West had the proper height Keaton lacked. Keaton did a fine job ACTING but you probably look more like Bruce Wayne than he did. I don't remember Bruce Wayne being a 5"9" skinny balding guy with hair plugs. Kevin Conroy looked the part way more back then and he was just a voice actor.

Burton wasn't much of a Batman fan. Certainly not a Batman comic book fan. He didn't give a shit about how Batman looked away from his movies. It's more logical that Batman should have the more impressive physique than Superman. Superman doesn't need to work out to do what he does. Batman does. And he's always described as being he best of the best. The strongest, the fastest, the most agile. The worlds greatest hand to hand combatant.

You can see some influence from certain stories but Burton was less concerned with a more faithful adaptation. What he did was more of a reinvention of Batman in many ways and going back to the earliest material in others. But then he threw his own ideas in. That's why we got shit like Joker killing the Wayne's. even the WRITER of Batman put the blame on Burton. He wanted it another way. Donner went the extra mile while trying to make sure they served the material more often and not the other way around. Like Burton his film went back to the earliest stories but he also didn't throw out what wasn't broken. That's why STM has probably ended up being he better film in the passage of time.

Batman TAS took everything good about Burton's movies and made it better then added some stuff back that he changed or took out and made the final product brilliant.

[ye5man]

This is why we need a muscular Superman