Man of Steel (2013)

[eccentricbeing]

Well, if anyone remembered my first review, they would know I didn't hold it in that high regard.

Jun 12, 2013 1:44:55 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

I need to be on my computer to type this out faithfully. There's a lot to tackle here and it's going to divide us tremendously. I liked the movie. It's not as great as we may have hoped hoped for. I feel the script needed another rewrite before filming it and the action needed to be trimmed up. I'm not a fan of the narrative structure and the movie had been missing other great elements like Cavill, then this movie would've been bad. There needed to be quiet moments where we could connect with the characters. There was some of it but it either happened too fast or it focused on a character we couldn't give a shit about.

But I liked it. I didn't cringe at any moments and I didn't walk out with lost desire of ever seeing it again. That's a good thing for me.

Jun 12, 2013 12:20:05 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

There's nothing wrong with telling his origin, but I think they tried to be so far-removed from the previous movies that they created the flashback narrative just for that. I feel that narrative wasn't written the right way to provide the viewer some dramatic substance among the moments in Clark Kent's life as well as the urgency behind Krypton's destruction. They gave us drama in the form of hors d'oeuvres.

Honestly, I felt the first 5-10 minutes of the movie (the Krypton scenes) were more like an opening Bond sequence. As soon as we saw the ship fly passed the moon, I was expecting a title cue. But no, it jumps to him on the fishing boat. I was "Ok...maybe we're going to get that part in Kent's life and journey with him from there." Then within seconds, he goes to rescue the guys at the oil plant and...that's it. It jumps back to when he's a kid in school. I felt like the flashbacks served more to give us something of his memory....which is cool idea. But they don't give us the time to INTRODUCE US to these characters!!!

Since this is a full on reboot, reintroduce us to these characters. Shit, evening the new Spider-Man movie did that and even though some of us may have bitched about that, it made some of us appreciate the character development behind Peter, Gwen, Uncle Ben, Aunt May, etc. We know Uncle Ben was going to die, but the movie allows us to take in the relationships and actually like Martin Sheen's portrayal. But of course, this argument only works if you found the movie to be OK or better.

The one time in the movie where there was a stake in someone's life and the movie played out on its suspense is when Jenny is trapped in the rubble. Um...who is she again? Movies use tricks to create suspense on characters who aren't even a part of the movie and they do this by either putting a child in danger or an animal in danger. We know that if we see either, we immediately are going to empathize and connect. But when it's an adult that's not part of the main cast, we don't give a shit. Sad, but movie. This is what happens here.

Now, the too much action argument...

It was great seeing these feats being performed. None of this has even been seen. This makes the Superman II battle scenes look like stop-animation with Mattel figurines. But it was way over the top, which is good....for Man of Steel 2.

Metropolis is fucking wiped out. WRECKED! A good portion of the city is leveled down to nothing. At least in the Avengers, New York was rebuildable. Fucked, but rebuildable. Metropolis, though....Jesus, man. If that had happened in real life, America would be bankrupted. But yet, Clark gets a job at the Daily Planet not too long afterwards!

But my point is that the action stakes were raised TOOOOOO high for a first movie. What the heck are they going to do for the sequel? You can't certainly raise the bar after that one. One would hope that Synder and Goyer keep the action down and focus on the characters more. Fuck, say what you want, but even Michael Bay takes time to focus on his characters.

One idea I had is that maybe they use ground zero as a way to bring Luthor in and have him rebuild that part of Metropolis. Have seen as the "good guy" at first, but has other intentions. In my opinion, that's the only way they can stitch that logical problem for part 2. Unless they want to go the Batman route and just forget about the train and the Narrows island all together like they never existed. But um, it's kinda hard to forget the middle of the city turned into an airport runway.

I can understand the beef with killing Zod. They wrote themselves into that corner because there was no way to resolve the Zod conflict after the black hole. In my mind, as I was watching the movie before the third act, I was thinking Zod was going to be disposed of by a clever, intelligent-beating move by Superman where Zod would up back in the Phantom Zone. However, I do like the idea that Superman will learn from this horrible experience killing the only other Kryptonian in existence.

Lois and Superman...I read that they're relationship went too fast, but honestly...I think it progressed naturally. Under those circumstances of being together like that, it would definitely bring two people like that together. Especially, sexually. I didn't think they were in love with each other and that's the point. There's a great attraction between the both of them and it helps a lot that the actors have good chemistry.

Russell Crowe was one of the best things in this movie. He did NOT phone this one in and I love it. I wish we had 20 minutes more of him on Krypton. Shannon wasn't bad either. Kevin says he was subdued...I don't see how. He was pretty intense, but not a murdering psychopath. Costner was also really good, but damn...I wish they played out his character a little more. I found it annoying that we have his death scene and later in the movie, we get another moment with him alive again. The narrative bugged the shit out of me like that. I see what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't working that well for me. The self-sacrifice with the tornado would've had more weight if they had built a little more with his ideal that the world wasn't ready for him yet. But this all has to do with Pa Kent not getting a proper introduction to us.

But with all said, I liked the movie. It's not horrible, but it's not great either. There's not much nuances and subtlety. There is humor. It's not completely cold, but I felt like the movie was an objective take on Superman. Which leads me remembering back what Synder said for his direction of his movie a while back....he said he saw this more of a documentary. That's pretty much what it is almost. A detached collection of facts and tales on the story of Superman.

A lot of the shit some of you guys kept repeating and bitching OVER and OVER in the last 6 months, I had said in my first review. But my opinion didn't erode. I still agree with what I said, but the reason I looked beyond it is because I like what it was going for. I like the performances, the look of the movie, the score, and the atmosphere in a lot of places (especially Krypton). For me, that merits a decent movie. Not an amazing movie, but a movie that I would like to return to from time to time. It's a version of the character I've wanted to see and since I enjoy the Superman character, this version is a great change from the things I'm used to seeing Superman in.

[Metallo]

Hey good for you. But like I keep saying there's a difference for some folks when it comes to intent and execution. I don't mind that it's different as far as a take on Superman. That's not the issue. As for talking about the same stuff: it's going to happen. We've been bitching about the same stuff in the Reeve films for over ten years. The same with Lois & Clark and Smallville and everything else. How is this any different? It happens when conversations pop up. Some people keep praising the same stuff too. It happens. If people don't like the bitching Id just say don't read it. People are going to have different views. It's exactly what Enrique is talking about.

As far as views on the film eroding. The more you watch a film the more the flaws show up. And the more the shine wears off. If the film isn't that great I'm not going have the same wow factor or awe factor from some of the scale and spectacle on the tenth viewing like I did on the first. I've had the same problems I've had from the beginning. Now the flaws just look worse and more are visible on repeated viewings and more pop up. Just because the film does some things well doesn't mean I feel like turning a blind eye or accept a lesser product. It's what Hollywood is HOPING a lot of people will do anyway.

[ye5man]

Dec 2, 2013 21:07:03 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Enrique can speak for himself..."

Unless he's in a rage

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2013 22:29:06 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

Well, if anyone remembered my first review, they would know I didn't hold it in that high regard.

Jun 12, 2013 1:44:55 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

I need to be on my computer to type this out faithfully. There's a lot to tackle here and it's going to divide us tremendously. I liked the movie. It's not as great as we may have hoped hoped for. I feel the script needed another rewrite before filming it and the action needed to be trimmed up. I'm not a fan of the narrative structure and the movie had been missing other great elements like Cavill, then this movie would've been bad. There needed to be quiet moments where we could connect with the characters. There was some of it but it either happened too fast or it focused on a character we couldn't give a shit about.

But I liked it. I didn't cringe at any moments and I didn't walk out with lost desire of ever seeing it again. That's a good thing for me.

Jun 12, 2013 12:20:05 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

There's nothing wrong with telling his origin, but I think they tried to be so far-removed from the previous movies that they created the flashback narrative just for that. I feel that narrative wasn't written the right way to provide the viewer some dramatic substance among the moments in Clark Kent's life as well as the urgency behind Krypton's destruction. They gave us drama in the form of hors d'oeuvres.

Honestly, I felt the first 5-10 minutes of the movie (the Krypton scenes) were more like an opening Bond sequence. As soon as we saw the ship fly passed the moon, I was expecting a title cue. But no, it jumps to him on the fishing boat. I was "Ok...maybe we're going to get that part in Kent's life and journey with him from there." Then within seconds, he goes to rescue the guys at the oil plant and...that's it. It jumps back to when he's a kid in school. I felt like the flashbacks served more to give us something of his memory....which is cool idea. But they don't give us the time to INTRODUCE US to these characters!!!

Since this is a full on reboot, reintroduce us to these characters. Shit, evening the new Spider-Man movie did that and even though some of us may have bitched about that, it made some of us appreciate the character development behind Peter, Gwen, Uncle Ben, Aunt May, etc. We know Uncle Ben was going to die, but the movie allows us to take in the relationships and actually like Martin Sheen's portrayal. But of course, this argument only works if you found the movie to be OK or better.

The one time in the movie where there was a stake in someone's life and the movie played out on its suspense is when Jenny is trapped in the rubble. Um...who is she again? Movies use tricks to create suspense on characters who aren't even a part of the movie and they do this by either putting a child in danger or an animal in danger. We know that if we see either, we immediately are going to empathize and connect. But when it's an adult that's not part of the main cast, we don't give a shit. Sad, but movie. This is what happens here.

Now, the too much action argument...

It was great seeing these feats being performed. None of this has even been seen. This makes the Superman II battle scenes look like stop-animation with Mattel figurines. But it was way over the top, which is good....for Man of Steel 2.

Metropolis is fucking wiped out. WRECKED! A good portion of the city is leveled down to nothing. At least in the Avengers, New York was rebuildable. Fucked, but rebuildable. Metropolis, though....Jesus, man. If that had happened in real life, America would be bankrupted. But yet, Clark gets a job at the Daily Planet not too long afterwards!

But my point is that the action stakes were raised TOOOOOO high for a first movie. What the heck are they going to do for the sequel? You can't certainly raise the bar after that one. One would hope that Synder and Goyer keep the action down and focus on the characters more. Fuck, say what you want, but even Michael Bay takes time to focus on his characters.

One idea I had is that maybe they use ground zero as a way to bring Luthor in and have him rebuild that part of Metropolis. Have seen as the "good guy" at first, but has other intentions. In my opinion, that's the only way they can stitch that logical problem for part 2. Unless they want to go the Batman route and just forget about the train and the Narrows island all together like they never existed. But um, it's kinda hard to forget the middle of the city turned into an airport runway.

I can understand the beef with killing Zod. They wrote themselves into that corner because there was no way to resolve the Zod conflict after the black hole. In my mind, as I was watching the movie before the third act, I was thinking Zod was going to be disposed of by a clever, intelligent-beating move by Superman where Zod would up back in the Phantom Zone. However, I do like the idea that Superman will learn from this horrible experience killing the only other Kryptonian in existence.

Lois and Superman...I read that they're relationship went too fast, but honestly...I think it progressed naturally. Under those circumstances of being together like that, it would definitely bring two people like that together. Especially, sexually. I didn't think they were in love with each other and that's the point. There's a great attraction between the both of them and it helps a lot that the actors have good chemistry.

Russell Crowe was one of the best things in this movie. He did NOT phone this one in and I love it. I wish we had 20 minutes more of him on Krypton. Shannon wasn't bad either. Kevin says he was subdued...I don't see how. He was pretty intense, but not a murdering psychopath. Costner was also really good, but damn...I wish they played out his character a little more. I found it annoying that we have his death scene and later in the movie, we get another moment with him alive again. The narrative bugged the shit out of me like that. I see what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't working that well for me. The self-sacrifice with the tornado would've had more weight if they had built a little more with his ideal that the world wasn't ready for him yet. But this all has to do with Pa Kent not getting a proper introduction to us.

But with all said, I liked the movie. It's not horrible, but it's not great either. There's not much nuances and subtlety. There is humor. It's not completely cold, but I felt like the movie was an objective take on Superman. Which leads me remembering back what Synder said for his direction of his movie a while back....he said he saw this more of a documentary. That's pretty much what it is almost. A detached collection of facts and tales on the story of Superman.

A lot of the shit some of you guys kept repeating and bitching OVER and OVER in the last 6 months, I had said in my first review. But my opinion didn't erode. I still agree with what I said, but the reason I looked beyond it is because I like what it was going for. I like the performances, the look of the movie, the score, and the atmosphere in a lot of places (especially Krypton). For me, that merits a decent movie. Not an amazing movie, but a movie that I would like to return to from time to time. It's a version of the character I've wanted to see and since I enjoy the Superman character, this version is a great change from the things I'm used to seeing Superman in.

Bizarre that I never had any big arguments with you isn't it? I mean we must have since I simply won't accept anyone not loving MOS

As the guys in Russ's sig would say. "Myth busted"

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

One for Enrique

[Metallo]

The other nine must definitely be all for you then.

Dec 3, 2013 15:35:40 GMT -5 @kris said:

I do like this one.

[EnriqueH]

Typical Kris. Sharing his jerk off materials.

[EnriqueH]

Dec 3, 2013 15:35:40 GMT -5 @kris said:

Ha, now we know what Kris wants up his kilt!

DAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jor-L5150]

Dec 3, 2013 15:24:20 GMT -5 @kris said:

awesome kris!

so many times we post the action scenes as clips and gifs, but those are some really cool behind the scenes shots of the softer, quieter scenes.
well done!

[Kirok]

My podcast's latest episode tackled MOS, thought this would be an appropriate place to share. Shameless self promotion, I know.

nerdsexplainitall.podomatic.com/entry/2013-12-02T14_08_13-08_00

[Jor-L5150]

Dec 4, 2013 22:20:09 GMT -5 Kirok said:

My podcast's latest episode tackled MOS, thought this would be an appropriate place to share. Shameless self promotion, I know.

nerdsexplainitall.podomatic.com/entry/2013-12-02T14_08_13-08_00

cant wait!

[Deleted]

Jor, your sig, what the feck is that?

[Deleted]

never mind, just seen its from his 2004 screen test for the McG film.

Fucking heck, even with how young he is there he still looks like Superman

[Deleted]

Watched it on Blu-Ray last night.

Thoroughly enjoyable, the Krypton stuff just blows my mind.

If I were to focus on negatives, I hate the fact he went to a pedo priest for guidance, what was the point in that? Surely it would have been better if he went to Martha? Seems like Goyer is a crazy catholic and just wanted that in there.

I love what we got to see in terms of action, but they really set themselves up to be picked off by having all the action so concentrated with little in between. But thoroughly enjoyable. Still think Crowe was my favourite in the film, but really can't wait to see Cavill back in the suit, loved his final scene as Superman with General Swanwick, total Superman.

[ye5man]

I think Daniel Craig is the only franchise actor where he never needed to grow in to the role. Hope Cav gets to do more acting and be more comfortable in the next one (and show more charm). Actually, with all these other characters, I hope his screen time is not compromised like Reeve in S3.

[crazy_asian_man]

Dec 7, 2013 13:17:03 GMT -5 ye5man said:

I think Daniel Craig is the only franchise actor where he never needed to grow in to the role. Hope Cav gets to do more acting and be more comfortable in the next one (and show more charm). Actually, with all these other characters, I hope his screen time is not compromised like Reeve in S3.

I thought Cavill had the right presence.... Given how Snyder made some very good actors come off terrible in Watchmen (not all, but half of them)- I usually feel like it's more Snyder whenever an actor in a Snyder comes off
flat...

[Metallo]

Dec 7, 2013 13:17:03 GMT -5 ye5man said:

I think Daniel Craig is the only franchise actor where he never needed to grow in to the role. Hope Cav gets to do more acting and be more comfortable in the next one (and show more charm). Actually, with all these other characters, I hope his screen time is not compromised like Reeve in S3.

Cause Craig had the right material and he right showcase from the start. An he was the right way to go after the DAD foul up. Craig couldn't have asked for a better launching point.

As for Cavill...they need a better filmmaker than can handle multiple characters so that Superman doesn't get short sticked.

[theoj]

Just watched the blu ray of MOS.
And for my 6th viewing of the film, it still holds up!

Totally enjoyable from start to finish, without ever reaching the magical heights of what Chris Reeve brought us.

Certainly a promising start for a new Superman franchise that hopefully won't be cut short by the appearance of all the other Justice league superheroes in the sequel.

Cavill is really good and certainly deserves the chance to mature and shine in the sequel. Let's hope Snyder gives him that chance.

[crazy_asian_man]

Just curious....

Does everyone feel like it's a foregone conclusion now that the next Superman film will only be 50-60% Superman and the rest handed off to other characters?

[Deleted]

50-60% may be a generous estimate.

[EnriqueH]

So I saw MOS again, PROPERLY, no ball breaking in my mind, and this was my second viewing.

I thought the Krypton stuff was good. I did see a lot of other sci-fi influences at play though that made it distracting. CGI beasts, Star Warsian and Avatar type visuals, but it was entertaining. I think it's mainly due to Russell Crowe and Michael Shannon elevating the material, particularly Shannon, who I now think was the best performer in the whole thing but I also think he was the best written character. I was bothered by the fact that Jor-El, a scientist, was fighting on even terms with Zod, who is THE military leader for the planet.

Thought the Smallville stuff was the weakest part of the film. I found myself kinda bored by the nonstop platitudes, relentless EMO, and oppressive sadness of anything Smallville related in the movie. Thought the Ma Kent stuff "Listen to my voice" was borderline laughable and cliched. I don't think Pa or Ma Kent were able to salvage the material here the way Shannon and Crowe elevated the Krypton stuff, but they were still good.

The Battle at IHOP stuff was entertaining and this is where I understand some of the criticism of the film regarding Superman having no concern about humans. Whereas in the climax Superman is getting thrown around, here it's Superman doing the throwing and punching bad guys into stuff. Still an enjoyable sequence.

Best line of the film by Zod: I have no people. That little speech was awesome. I found out that the reason I liked Zod so much was that he was easy to identify with. His motivations were clear and fairly easy to identify with. He had shades of gray and he was consistent throughout the film.

Superman is a different story. I thought Cavill was good, but I didn't think the material he had to work with was especially good. Superman stealing clothes, being reckless with his surroundings, being overly EMO. I thought he was clumsily realized for the most part. Outside of helping that one dude at the Battle at IHOP and saving Lois, he didn't seem very concerned with helping people. And as I mentioned previously, it would've been cool to throw in a scene of Superman actually trying to help fix things.

Oh, and that kiss was unfortunately placed. Lois had just fallen off an airplane, her colleagues (Meloni and Hamilton) killed, Metropolis just got blown to smithereens, her friends likely dead, and she's feeling romantic? They needed to put that kiss in later.

But for me, the worst part of the movie, BAR NONE is the way they handled the revelation of aliens to Earth. After checking again, it's pretty much glossed over. I thought it would've been cool to have/show a little of the world adapting to an alien presence in the universe, but they kinda cheated. It was a half-baked idea that didn't deliver on its promise...AND it kinda makes Jonathan Kent's already "bad death" kinda more meaningless.

And that brings me to another problem I had with the movie: The two big deaths in the film, Pa Kent and Zod, were preventable. At no point does the movie justify that those two had to die the way they did.

Overall, I still liked it. Problem is in the details.

[Metallo]

Dec 8, 2013 10:10:21 GMT -5 EnriqueH said:

So I saw MOS again, PROPERLY, no ball breaking in my mind, and this was my second viewing.

I thought the Krypton stuff was good. I did see a lot of other sci-fi influences at play though that made it distracting. CGI beasts, Star Warsian and Avatar type visuals, but it was entertaining. I think it's mainly due to Russell Crowe and Michael Shannon elevating the material, particularly Shannon, who I now think was the best performer in the whole thing but I also think he was the best written character. I was bothered by the fact that Jor-El, a scientist, was fighting on even terms with Zod, who is THE military leader for the planet.

Thought the Smallville stuff was the weakest part of the film. I found myself kinda bored by the nonstop platitudes, relentless EMO, and oppressive sadness of anything Smallville related in the movie. Thought the Ma Kent stuff "Listen to my voice" was borderline laughable and cliched. I don't think Pa or Ma Kent were able to salvage the material here the way Shannon and Crowe elevated the Krypton stuff, but they were still good.

The Battle at IHOP stuff was entertaining and this is where I understand some of the criticism of the film regarding Superman having no concern about humans. Whereas in the climax Superman is getting thrown around, here it's Superman doing the throwing and punching bad guys into stuff. Still an enjoyable sequence.

Best line of the film by Zod: I have no people. That little speech was awesome. I found out that the reason I liked Zod so much was that he was easy to identify with. His motivations were clear and fairly easy to identify with. He had shades of gray and he was consistent throughout the film.

Superman is a different story. I thought Cavill was good, but I didn't think the material he had to work with was especially good. Superman stealing clothes, being reckless with his surroundings, being overly EMO. I thought he was clumsily realized for the most part. Outside of helping that one dude at the Battle at IHOP and saving Lois, he didn't seem very concerned with helping people. And as I mentioned previously, it would've been cool to throw in a scene of Superman actually trying to help fix things.

Oh, and that kiss was unfortunately placed. Lois had just fallen off an airplane, her colleagues (Meloni and Hamilton) killed, Metropolis just got blown to smithereens, her friends likely dead, and she's feeling romantic? They needed to put that kiss in later.

But for me, the worst part of the movie, BAR NONE is the way they handled the revelation of aliens to Earth. After checking again, it's pretty much glossed over. I thought it would've been cool to have/show a little of the world adapting to an alien presence in the universe, but they kinda cheated. It was a half-baked idea that didn't deliver on its promise...AND it kinda makes Jonathan Kent's already "bad death" kinda more meaningless.

And that brings me to another problem I had with the movie: The two big deaths in the film, Pa Kent and Zod, were preventable. At no point does the movie justify that those two had to die the way they did.

Overall, I still liked it. Problem is in the details.

Yeah. What makes MOS so frustrating is that the skeleton for something good is there and most of the problems were easily fixable.


How did Lois fall out of the plane without being sucked into the singularity? When Superman caught her even he had to fight it's pull right? And how did she just happen to conveniently be everywhere she needed to be so fast? Guess she can teleport. I agree about the kiss. So forced. Like they were checking off boxes for what they needed to have in the movie.

[Metallo]

Dec 8, 2013 0:39:11 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Just curious....

Does everyone feel like it's a foregone conclusion now that the next Superman film will only be 50-60% Superman and the rest handed off to other characters?

Like Shiney said I think we will be lucky to see 60 % Superman/Clark.