SII/III idea

[Knight]

Just finished reading Superman The Complete History by Les Daniels. Excellent book,highly recommended.

I learned quite a lot from it,never really read any graphic novels before,apart from Last Son. However I have made a note of what you guys recommend in the comics forum.

So,thinking all things Superman,it lead me to SII and SIII. I don't know if this has been mentioned before so I'm just throwing it out there...

When Superman loses his powers in II,instead of the instant loss,it is a gradual prolonged decline...enter his evil doppelgänger from 3...imagine him facing upto Zod,that would be awesome!

Say that,he dosen't go to the fortress to get his powers back, he has the junk yard fight and returns to the DP etc.

Just an idea.

[EvilSupes]

That's quite an interesting idea actually. A similar one was tried with a Superman 3/4 fan cut I saw, where after Supes gets scratched by Nuclear Man he turns evil. But certainly, the idea of having Supes go evil after he loses his powers and then gains them back again after the junkyard fight, would be an interesting addition.

*imagines* junkyard fight after power loss then 'S' reveal, then after Supes flying to the DP to take on Zod and co.

[Knight]

Definitely,Evil.



Think that Superman has turned bad and it is he who demolishes the Washington monument and other evil deeds (from S3) while Zod barks the question ''is there no on one this planet to even challenge me?' Well,Zod yes there is,and he is gonna kick your ass!

Bad Superman's disdain for Zod would be more of a territorial one not giving a damn about the people of the world, so it would pay off when Superman is good again during the Metropolis showdown etc...

[TylerDurden389]

Oh man, this thread has brought an old idea/ideas of mine back from the dead. Ok, back in 2007 when I began to have ideas for my fan cut of Superman 2 (before I even thought of attempting it) I had quiet a few ideas that were definitely "out there" to say the least.

My first idea was actually more of a hybrid of Superman 1,2 AND 3 if you can believe that. It was also just a "what if?' idea, nothing serious. My idea was, instead of Superman turning back time at the end of Superman 1, he begins losing his mind after discovering Lois dead. He "gives up" on humanity I guess you could say, and starts becoming evil. While he's doing all this, Lex discovers the FOS, and the villains arrive. Basically, the fan cut would've been scenes from 2 and 3 back and forth. However, no junkyard fight. I guess I didn't have any idea how to make Superman become 'good" again, but that didn't matter to me because all I was thinking about was, Superman would've tried to fight the villains in Metropolis, lost the fight (the battle scene would've been much quicker to say the least), and when Superman gives up and flies away, THAT'S when he decides to go back in time. Then it would end it the same way as part one. Superman sees Lois and Jimmy, and takes Lex to prison.

Another idea I had that wasn't related to part 3 at all was (and I think I may have mentioned this on the board before in a different thread) was to use the deleted scene from S1 where Supes talks to Jor-el after his first night. This would've been in my cut AFTER Supes goes back in time (Selutron scene) and accidentally releases the villains, but BEFORE the DP jump. I would've edited this scene, as well as clips from the theatrical de-powering scene, to have a conversation that went like this:

Ext: FOS day

Jor-el: You did it. You interfered with human history.

(I know the line is "You...enjoyed it". I would've gotten the "did" line from a different Brando movie that matches his tone of voice in this scene.)

Int: FOS - Medium shot on Superman

Superman: But I had to, because, she's everything I want in life.

I know the line is "But I HAVE to". See above.

Jor-el: I anticipated this my son.

Superman: You couldn't have. You couldn't have imagined...

Jor-el: *sighs*

Superman looks intently but firmly.

Jor-el: Very well. So be it.

Superman: Thank you father.

Jor-el: It is infliction, common to all, even on Krypton.

Fade in music as Superman nods.

Jor-el smiles and fades away.

Cut to Concorde scene from RIC. Cut to Daily Planet.

This "scene' would've solved the question as to why Jor-el makes no mention in part 2 as to why his son disobeyed his wishes in part 1 by interfering with human history. I have a feeling that Selutron has already covered this and beaten me to it. Because if I can imagine it, certainly he can. A shame he won't be more public here with us.

Thoughts?

[Knight]

I like the idea of Jor-El confronting Superman because he disobeyed him by turning the world back at the end of STM. But, I would have it in the scene as he asks to loose his powers in II. Interesting.

Then have things go as I suggested previously...

[EvilSupes]

Tyler you definitely have some good ideas there.

I think it would be brilliant to see a Superman 2/3 hybrid cut (just using the S3 evil parts etc), as I don't think it's been done before, that I am aware of anyway.

I think this could be one of the most interesting concepts for a S2 cut that I have heard, in a long while. It makes me realise how much stuff could be taken from 3 and maybe 4 that might be useful for making S2 even better other than rotoscoping certain shots.

I'm gonna have to have a look through S4 now and see if there is anything that could be used to fill in any gaps or parts that are dragging in S2. I doubt there is much that can be used, as we all know S4 isn't the best of movies and a lot of the stuff is really out of place for being used in S2, but I'd like to think there is something there that could enhance the flow/story of S2.

[Knight]

I would like to see the opening rescue from S3 (getting rid of opening titles from 3 of course) right before Lois drawing conclusions/Clarks' return etc in TDP

Cut out the Lana/Superman scene after dinner. So that the first time Superman realises the consequence of his actions is when he is too late to save the truck from falling from the bridge.

I think it would be interesting to show Superman's decline,getting worse and worse juxtaposed to the villains taking a strong hold until eventually Superman is good again. We could understand Jor-El's feelings just before he steps into the crystal chamber ''I beg you...''

After Superman steps out of the bar and onto the street,have the reactions of the people but cut away Lana and Ricky. Instead of having Ricky saying ''you'll be great again,your just in a slump'' etc etc.

-Have Jor-El saying ''My son,even though you have been raised as one of them,you are not one of them/they can be a great people if they wish to be'' as Superman walks away from the bar and he starts to run.

When he is up in the air,have The President's voice''Superman,can you hear me?'' followed by Zod, ''Who is this ''Super-man'' I defy you,come and kneel before Zod. Zod!!'' -then shakes the thought away.

Superman now knows that Zod is here,hence his return to TDP after the junk fight. There would be no drive back to the diner,no fight with Rocky-non of them scenes. -It would suggest that Superman and Lois fly back to the city before Superman starts to change.

[Jor-L5150]

the les daniels book is essential. lotsa good stuff in there.

[TylerDurden389]

Aug 30, 2010 16:26:45 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

I'm gonna have to have a look through S4 now and see if there is anything that could be used to fill in any gaps or parts that are dragging in S2. I doubt there is much that can be used, as we all know S4 isn't the best of movies and a lot of the stuff is really out of place for being used in S2, but I'd like to think there is something there that could enhance the flow/story of S2.

In my cut I use the FOS exterior shot from Superman 4 as Clark returns to the fortress. So there may be something you can use there EvilSupes. In a way it's good that in S4 they made the FOS green. It helps for the scene where Clark returns there. Whether it be the DC or LC that you use.

[Metallo]

Aug 30, 2010 13:29:19 GMT -5 Knight said:

Just finished reading Superman The Complete History by Les Daniels. Excellent book,highly recommended.

I learned quite a lot from it,never really read any graphic novels before,apart from Last Son. However I have made a note of what you guys recommend in the comics forum.

So,thinking all things Superman,it lead me to SII and SIII. I don't know if this has been mentioned before so I'm just throwing it out there...

When Superman loses his powers in II,instead of the instant loss,it is a gradual prolonged decline...enter his evil doppelgänger from 3...imagine him facing upto Zod,that would be awesome!

Say that,he dosen't go to the fortress to get his powers back, he has the junk yard fight and returns to the DP etc.

Just an idea.

I bought that book years ago and still love it.

[Knight]

Really glad I got that book,there was a lot I didn't know about some of the other villains and use of different kryptonite,really interesting.

[EvilSupes]

Aug 30, 2010 17:33:58 GMT -5 Knight said:

I would like to see the opening rescue from S3 (getting rid of opening titles from 3 of course) right before Lois drawing conclusions/Clarks' return etc in TDP

Cut out the Lana/Superman scene after dinner. So that the first time Superman realises the consequence of his actions is when he is too late to save the truck from falling from the bridge.

I think it would be interesting to show Superman's decline,getting worse and worse juxtaposed to the villains taking a strong hold until eventually Superman is good again. We could understand Jor-El's feelings just before he steps into the crystal chamber ''I beg you...''

After Superman steps out of the bar and onto the street,have the reactions of the people but cut away Lana and Ricky. Instead of having Ricky saying ''you'll be great again,your just in a slump'' etc etc.

-Have Jor-El saying ''My son,even though you have been raised as one of them,you are not one of them/they can be a great people if they wish to be'' as Superman walks away from the bar and he starts to run.

When he is up in the air,have The President's voice''Superman,can you hear me?'' followed by Zod, ''Who is this ''Super-man'' I defy you,come and kneel before Zod. Zod!!'' -then shakes the thought away.

Superman now knows that Zod is here,hence his return to TDP after the junk fight. There would be no drive back to the diner,no fight with Rocky-non of them scenes. -It would suggest that Superman and Lois fly back to the city before Superman starts to change.

Some fantastic ideas again.

I can actually visualise this in my head, that's the thing that really excites me about these ideas. It would definitely add so much more drama and torment for Supes after deciding to change himself for Lois. I love that idea. One of the things I never really bought so well with S2 was the fact Supes just gives up his powers for Lois with the impression he hasn't given it much thought. More drama with his transition using S3 parts like you say, will definitely convey the consequences of his actions and or reasons for his decision.

Aug 30, 2010 21:24:20 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Aug 30, 2010 16:26:45 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

I'm gonna have to have a look through S4 now and see if there is anything that could be used to fill in any gaps or parts that are dragging in S2. I doubt there is much that can be used, as we all know S4 isn't the best of movies and a lot of the stuff is really out of place for being used in S2, but I'd like to think there is something there that could enhance the flow/story of S2.

In my cut I use the FOS exterior shot from Superman 4 as Clark returns to the fortress. So there may be something you can use there EvilSupes. In a way it's good that in S4 they made the FOS green. It helps for the scene where Clark returns there. Whether it be the DC or LC that you use.

Hey thanks for the info tyler.

That's exactly what I meant. Little bits of shots or parts of a scene from S4 might be really useful to enhance things in S2. The problem is going through all the crap to find something good. ;D

I seriously think, if we can all agree, that we should put our heads together to make one big ultimate S2 cut. More heads than one will definitely add to the benefit of more ideas and thinking outside the box. I'd love to see a collaborative effort from all those serious about fan editing here, and we simply get together and just help each other to make a movie that we all want to see. It's obvious to me that we all have similar ideas, and we all love Superman, so why not?

[crazy_asian_man]

A lot of interesting ideas had never thought of here!

One of the easier things that I hadn't even thought of, until reading this thread, to make SIII more palatable (aside from junking a lot of the Pryor nonsense and extremely silly stuff)- is to maybe expand the 'junkyard/nightmare' sequence into something more dreamlike, using compositing/ rotoscoping.

Having Clark face up to not just EvilSupes, but I could see making that whole sequence more surreal--- but also adding in multiple villains (via compositing) in that junkyard dream sequence cheering on Evilsupes the Phantom Zone Criminals, Lex, Teschmacher, even the Bar Bully from SII and...yes... even Leueen. ;p

[crazy_asian_man]

I seriously think, if we can all agree, that we should put our heads together to make one big ultimate S2 cut. More heads than one will definitely add to the benefit of more ideas and thinking outside the box. I'd love to see a collaborative effort from all those serious about fan editing here, and we simply get together and just help each other to make a movie that we all want to see. It's obvious to me that we all have similar ideas, and we all love Superman, so why not?

It's a great idea- but in looking at multiple S2 cuts, there are so many differences in what to keep out/ keep in, that it'd be difficult to see enough agreement on one cut. Nice thought, but I think that the reason the IRC project seems to be so successful is that there's one rule to the whole project: that it goes to a model that is already pre-established, without argument (I presume).

On the plus side, back to an idea of an SII fan cut, the more variations of cuts out there (imo), the more it gives us each ideas on how to expand upon/ improve our own cuts. I know without the input of so many cuts and forum friends here, (especially Tyler), the cut I have (although it's still far from what I want imo) is much better with those extra ideas than without.

On a side note, I'm tackling the disastrous (in continuity terms) screen test scene that Selutron tackled in one way (mix/matching the characters into the Lester hotel)- by taking another approach & trying to composite the test (with extra long shots) so that Clark's hair matches entirely throughout the scene and that there's a LITTLE less confusion geographically with where Lois and Clark are in relation to one another. I'll post a clip soon, if interested.

[Knight]

Thanks for your comments,guys...it means a lot that you recognise what I'm seeing.

I think we all agree that Superman saving the man in the car and the subsequent decline into badness is ''gold'', Reeve here is excellent, Man,I love that guy.


I was awake for ages during the night,ideas kept coming. I love the thought of Superman hearing his father's voice towards the end of his decline. Also the president's desperate plea for help,Superman shaking the voices away...awesome!!

Keep the S2 linear narrative,I would want to keep away from any roto-scoping. Just the inclusion of the car rescue and Superman going bad/fight would be excellent.

[Metallo]

A little off topic but what would some of you guys say are some of the best COMBINED versions of STM and SII RDC (if there are any)? I know someone must have tackled it by now.

I'd love too see some fan edits with Donners original "rocket freeing the phantom zone villians" cliffhanger ending from STM that leads into SII. I've always been curious to see how that would play if I watched it all together.

I'd have to think it could only help The RDC of II, especially the ending, work better.

[Knight]

Aug 31, 2010 15:03:36 GMT -5 Metallo said:

A little off topic but what would some of you guys say are some of the best COMBINED versions of STM and SII RDC (if there are any)? I know someone must have tackled it by now.

I'd love too see some fan edits with Donners original "rocket freeing the phantom zone villians" cliffhanger ending from STM that leads into SII. I've always been curious to see how that would play if I watched it all together.

I'd have to think it could only help The RDC of II, especially the ending, work better.

I did toy with that idea,no end STM credits, end on Superman taking off from the prison and cut directly to the shot of the City DP opening and jump.

Inevitability I ended up cutting the two.


In my edit of STM I have took out all of Thau's silly stuff...included however from RDC was the journey to earth scene,''your mother Lara has provided you...'' -I like that bit,so why not,easy edit.

I have Superman accidentally freeing the villains at the end with XK101,no turning back time-I hated it in the released versions.

And in II I cut out all the backwards footage from STM and Thau's II and had one continuous shot of Supes turning the world back from STM. Then an exterior shot of Metropolis and end in TDP ''Superman takes a day off'' / flying the flag credits...

[Metallo]

Yeah I was thinking of somethign like that...though the credits could stay if you wanted to keep them as separate films. But edited together as a miniseries or even one BIG movie it would be interesting to watch. As one movie the flow might realy be hurt though.

With STM using the cliffhanger ending I guess you could edit out Lois dying and Superman turning back the world. End the movie with Supes leaving the prison and go directly to the missile flying out to space and freeing the PZC's.

[TylerDurden389]

I like the idea of us all doing a collaborative effort to make an "ultimate" cut. I believe they're doing that on fanedit.org with the latest Indiana Jones film. However as stated before, we all have different ideas of what "works" and what doesn't. Which is why I agree with CAM in the sense that we should probably just continue to give each other ideas from our own cuts. As I've said before, my fan cut is a collection of bits and pieces from other Superman 2 fan cuts (as I've watched ALL of them), as well as my own ideas.

This is probably the reason why Selutron won't join our group. As he said, he doesn't want it turning into a free-for-all. However, at this point there's no going back for any of us who've made our own cut. Even if they re-do Superman 2 in a few years or whatever when (or if) they make another Superman movie and Selutron is at the helm for editing 2, chances are there's going to be at least one thing he does that I don't care for. Thus I'd have to do my fan edit over again using his version. heck, his "Post-time travel' scene is supposed to happen before the opening credits. In my version, it happens after.

[Knight]

Here we go,this is the outline for what I have been thinking.

If the red sun was the ''eventual cause'' of Krypton's destruction,it can damn well be the cause of Superman's too!

Metropolis exterior-DC

*Superman saves drowning man from car-do away with credits over footage.

DP opening,drawing/jumping to conclusions...

SII,as usual weaving in and out of best bits of TLC and RDC up until:

-Lois and Superman have dinner in fortress ''slip into something comfortable''

-EXT. Shot of Fortress with Brando's ''This is a question I hoped you would not ask''

INT. Fortress Father/Son discussion -exposed to the red rays in the chamber ...(fan edits of course )

-News Beat report.... ''is there no-one on this planet to even challenge me?'' (DC)

*Bridge/truck ''too late'' The badness takes a hold...

-Zod ''Yes,today begins a new order'' / White House watch the monument topple.

*Athlete torch blow-out...(cut out that awful stock footage of the birds flying)

W/House attack part 1. ''Oh god.''....'Zod!' (LC)

*Oil spill

W/House Lex arrives part 2. ''Australia'' (DC)

*Bar,street scene-no Lana or Ricky,as stated before...Jor-El's teachings ''even though you have been raised as one of them,you are not one of them,my son...'' Superman takes flight he hears the president's urgent plea for help and Zod's angry call to ''Super-man'' Supes reaction as normal....

*Fight, power back, 'S' reveal...fixes oil spill...

Daily Planet Lois,Perry and Jimmy...''He'll be here'' (DC),Villains arrive...''sounds like an earthquake'' (LC)

Superman returns to the city ,TDP (Tyler Durden's edit of course )

-As is to the end, weaving in and out of our beloved fan cuts!!

What do you think? -
-

[Rod]

all those endless hours rotoscoping and now you guys come with this simple solution to the problem of how to add the rip shirt scene!!!

I love it!

[EvilSupes]

Soo many replies, and no multi-quote feature, so I'll try my best to address the replies concerning my idea of us all working on the "ultimate cut".

I get what all of you are saying, yeah it's nice for each person to make their own cut, to inspire and provide variety of different approaches for Superman fans to enjoy/watch. But, I just felt, a collaborative effort, making a cut for the community, would be interesting, as I believe inspiration and new ideas can still be made without having to wait and see what the other person does. I just thought the ideas and skills we have here on this board, would be good to make something really unique for fun.

Understandably, people differ on opinions about what would should stay or go, but the whole idea of collaborating and doing this project for this board community or beyond, is that we allow other people's input for ideas, and we try things out, or take a majority vote to decide on certain things. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the work of Adywan with his Star Wars edits, but he works very closely with the community, and asks people what they would like to see changed/removed/added to the movies. I'd like this type of approach to be taken with a cut on Superman II, as I think so much stuff can be done. I actually believe, with all heads and skills united, we could easily create something vastly superior to Selutron's work.

My proposal is for each scene/part, be made with the best parts from each of our work, and put it into a cut. For example, best parts of Tyler's, CAM's, mine, Jimbo/Mav's, and if it can't be decided amongst ourselves who's goes in and doesn't, then we ask the community. We experiment; we see what fits, what works, what needs tweaking etc.

I understand of course, if you prefer to make a cut more for yourselves to enjoy personally, that's fine. I just thought it would be a great opportunity to make the version of Superman 2, all of us would have liked to see, having all the skills and footage there for our disposal.

[TylerDurden389]

Sept 1, 2010 11:28:57 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

My proposal is for each scene/part, be made with the best parts from each of our work, and put it into a cut. For example, best parts of Tyler's, CAM's, mine, Jimbo/Mav's, and if it can't be decided amongst ourselves who's goes in and doesn't, then we ask the community. We experiment; we see what fits, what works, what needs tweaking etc.

Well, I'll join in just for fun, but in the end I am way too anal to go along with ideas that I don't like, even if I'm out-voted by everyone else involved lol. For example, if everyone agrees on the amnesia kiss, I still won't lol. But, I will give a VERY brief outline of what I would want in this proposed cut. Things that I am not very flexible about changing:

1. Selutron's post-time travel MUST stay. This is the entire CORE of what makes the events of part 2 have merit. Superman is paying for what he did by interfering with human history. If Superman releases the villains simply with the first missile from part 1 without turning back time, it's simply an accident. Same goes for the hydrogen bomb. The scene cannot be moved to a different time in the film either, unless we all agree on NOT recapping part 1 like the theatrical does. This would mean that the opening of this cut would be right when Superman discovers Lois dead (or maybe jump to this after a brief recap on krypton like Booshman's new cut does. Basically, instead of cutting to the missiles being launched, and Superman at Lex's lair like the DC does, cut to Supes pulling the car out of the ditch).

2. I personally believe my take on the DP jump is the best one out there. This of course was with CAM's help, so credit where it's due. The only real nitpick I have is, I hate how I JUMP from Clark with arms crossed, to Supes with his arms crossed (when Lois figures it out). I wanted to FADE this effect, but I could never get it to work. So if anyone wants to take a stab at it, be my guest.

3. The bellboy at Niagra Falls has NO PLACE in Superman 2. (Ok, ok I'm nitpicking, but I always hated that guy. He makes me think of Lester's "contributions" way too much. Moreso than Luanne.)

4. Eve - "That was 2 days ago". This blooper is one of the few I've noticed that no one has removed. How long does it take the villains to fly to Earth exactly?

5. I personally LOVE Selutron's take on "Spirit Jor-el" with the giant crystal since it gives us a clear indication of when it's pre-recorded Jor-el, and when it's his actual spirit. BUT if anyone can match Brando's head/color to how it should be in part 1, then bring it.

6. Again, I LOVE what Selutron did mixing the Blank bullets scene with the pink bear scene. However, if I had to choose I'd go with blank bullets simply because it IS possible to edit it so that we only see one version of Chris. All you do is simply start the scene when Lois is already probing Clark. Simply edit out her "pep" talk when the 2 of them are both in the frame.

7. I'm especially proud of what I've done to get the campy Idaho scenes to be more serious. The way I edited it, the adding of music, etc... However, I must again point to Selutron and how much I love the "Villains in D.C" scene he made. With some clever editing though I'm sure we can make something of the "blow them a kiss" part, as well as "Genreal Zod does not take orders, he gives them" WITHOUT making it campy.

8. Again, I love how I re-worked the dialogue for the de-powering scene, but I understand that many of you still like Lester's version. Me personally, I feel Lara has no place in 2. This is supposed to be about the father and the son. They only got her for part 2 because Brando wouldn't come back. I do prefer "I love her" from Lester's cut though, as well as the music/sound effects from there on.

9. For story's sake, I prefer Superman getting his powers back AFTER Lex has spoken to the villains. I love what CAM did for this scene, but it still needs a little bit of editing effects-wise.

10. For the metro battle, I really like how I was able to get some of the Donner bits in there while synchronizing it up to Lester's audio. Again, I love some of the things CAM did here, but the effects really need to be worked on, as well as trimming the scene down. I think his version runs something like 15-20 minutes long. We see the same shots at least 5-6 times EACH and it's simply too much. Plus certain actors stick out like a sore thumb (Nicole Kidman from Batman Forever, for example)

12. "No!! Don't do it!! The people!!" I think it goes without saying that my cut solved this problem the best.

11. I love my ending that has Lois know his identity, but I understand that it needs some figuring out for some people. I've had to explain it to pretty much EVERY person I've shown it to. So if everyone wants to go with an "open-ended" ending where we go to the diner after the balcony goodbye, (or to another scene) than that's ok. I still like ending it with the hydrogen bomb cliffhanger though.

So there's my major ideas. If we all agree to take this further, I'll get much more in detail with what I want to be in it. Which lines of dialogue/which takes from which version (or fan cut). Or maybe we'll start at the beginning and give our ideas as we go through the movie.

[Knight]

...Is there any chance that someone could have a go at editing the scene of Superman stepping from the bar,cutting out Lana and Ricky (taxi scene and dialogue,just have them standing in with the rest of the pedestrians as Superman says ''what are you looking at?'' )

Brando dialogue over Superman walking/running away from the bar :

''My son,even though you have been raised as one of them,you are not one of them'' (use the audio from Superman Returns here,perhaps?)

Once Superman is up in the air ''Superman! Can you here me?''

''Who is this Super-man? Come and kneel before Zod. Zod'!!'

Have Superman shaking his head and play scene out as normal.


-It would be great to see if anyone can do it...

I'm still without any programme and wouldn't know where to begin editing if I got one,without learning how first.

[EvilSupes]

Sept 1, 2010 14:50:16 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Sept 1, 2010 11:28:57 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

My proposal is for each scene/part, be made with the best parts from each of our work, and put it into a cut. For example, best parts of Tyler's, CAM's, mine, Jimbo/Mav's, and if it can't be decided amongst ourselves who's goes in and doesn't, then we ask the community. We experiment; we see what fits, what works, what needs tweaking etc.

Well, I'll join in just for fun, but in the end I am way too anal to go along with ideas that I don't like, even if I'm out-voted by everyone else involved lol. For example, if everyone agrees on the amnesia kiss, I still won't lol. But, I will give a VERY brief outline of what I would want in this proposed cut. Things that I am not very flexible about changing:

1. Selutron's post-time travel MUST stay. This is the entire CORE of what makes the events of part 2 have merit. Superman is paying for what he did by interfering with human history. If Superman releases the villains simply with the first missile from part 1 without turning back time, it's simply an accident. Same goes for the hydrogen bomb. The scene cannot be moved to a different time in the film either, unless we all agree on NOT recapping part 1 like the theatrical does. This would mean that the opening of this cut would be right when Superman discovers Lois dead (or maybe jump to this after a brief recap on krypton like Booshman's new cut does. Basically, instead of cutting to the missiles being launched, and Superman at Lex's lair like the DC does, cut to Supes pulling the car out of the ditch).

2. I personally believe my take on the DP jump is the best one out there. This of course was with CAM's help, so credit where it's due. The only real nitpick I have is, I hate how I JUMP from Clark with arms crossed, to Supes with his arms crossed (when Lois figures it out). I wanted to FADE this effect, but I could never get it to work. So if anyone wants to take a stab at it, be my guest.

3. The bellboy at Niagra Falls has NO PLACE in Superman 2. (Ok, ok I'm nitpicking, but I always hated that guy. He makes me think of Lester's "contributions" way too much. Moreso than Luanne.)

4. Eve - "That was 2 days ago". This blooper is one of the few I've noticed that no one has removed. How long does it take the villains to fly to Earth exactly?

5. I personally LOVE Selutron's take on "Spirit Jor-el" with the giant crystal since it gives us a clear indication of when it's pre-recorded Jor-el, and when it's his actual spirit. BUT if anyone can match Brando's head/color to how it should be in part 1, then bring it.

6. Again, I LOVE what Selutron did mixing the Blank bullets scene with the pink bear scene. However, if I had to choose I'd go with blank bullets simply because it IS possible to edit it so that we only see one version of Chris. All you do is simply start the scene when Lois is already probing Clark. Simply edit out her "pep" talk when the 2 of them are both in the frame.

7. I'm especially proud of what I've done to get the campy Idaho scenes to be more serious. The way I edited it, the adding of music, etc... However, I must again point to Selutron and how much I love the "Villains in D.C" scene he made. With some clever editing though I'm sure we can make something of the "blow them a kiss" part, as well as "Genreal Zod does not take orders, he gives them" WITHOUT making it campy.

8. Again, I love how I re-worked the dialogue for the de-powering scene, but I understand that many of you still like Lester's version. Me personally, I feel Lara has no place in 2. This is supposed to be about the father and the son. They only got her for part 2 because Brando wouldn't come back. I do prefer "I love her" from Lester's cut though, as well as the music/sound effects from there on.

9. For story's sake, I prefer Superman getting his powers back AFTER Lex has spoken to the villains. I love what CAM did for this scene, but it still needs a little bit of editing effects-wise.

10. For the metro battle, I really like how I was able to get some of the Donner bits in there while synchronizing it up to Lester's audio. Again, I love some of the things CAM did here, but the effects really need to be worked on, as well as trimming the scene down. I think his version runs something like 15-20 minutes long. We see the same shots at least 5-6 times EACH and it's simply too much. Plus certain actors stick out like a sore thumb (Nicole Kidman from Batman Forever, for example)

12. "No!! Don't do it!! The people!!" I think it goes without saying that my cut solved this problem the best.

11. I love my ending that has Lois know his identity, but I understand that it needs some figuring out for some people. I've had to explain it to pretty much EVERY person I've shown it to. So if everyone wants to go with an "open-ended" ending where we go to the diner after the balcony goodbye, (or to another scene) than that's ok. I still like ending it with the hydrogen bomb cliffhanger though.

So there's my major ideas. If we all agree to take this further, I'll get much more in detail with what I want to be in it. Which lines of dialogue/which takes from which version (or fan cut). Or maybe we'll start at the beginning and give our ideas as we go through the movie.

I like most of those ideas, and I have nothing personal against any ideas for S2 - I see the strengths in both Lester and Donner cuts.

But one thing I have to say, is that Selutron's stuff just doesn't seem to be good enough quality to make a cut without footage that is noticeably different. With Lester and Donner footage, colour correcting can be done, but with Selutron's, all we have is crappy .MOV footage that is below DVD res. The only way I can think of to make it blend in more with the other footage, is to bring the other footage down to the same video res as the selutron footage. I would rather make Selutron's videos again using Adobe After Effects and have full DVD res though and make some slight tweaks/changes so we can call them our own. It might be hard work, but it's definitely possible.

If we put our minds to it, we can accomplish anything.