Superman II fan edits

[crazy_asian_man]

Recapping the first film during the credits is definitely one thing Lester got right, and I'd like to think that had Donner returned, he'd have done the same.

The recapping in the beginning is straight out of the Mankiewicz script.... but then Thau answered he didn't do the recapping because it was (quote) "cheesy". *sigh*

I don't know if Donner agreed, but in the featurette, it sounded like he was fine turning a lot over to Thau. Bad call....

[Keith]

The recap in Lesters is one of my favorite things bout S2.

[ChrisM]

Jun 11, 2011 9:08:47 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

Jun 11, 2011 8:32:33 GMT -5 ChrisM said:

For the booshman Redux cut, how do you get the seamless branching option for the blank bullets/pink bear? I've tried everything on my SONY PS3. As for the edit itself, having finally watched it on a HD tv, I will say overall it is pretty good. The weakest areas are the opening 15 minutes where he tries to rehash parts of STM that are not really integral. It just goes on and on... and jumps from the trial on krypton... to smallville... and then right to lois' death. You're not really sure where he's going with it. Confusing and distracting to anybody not intimately in-the-know. Then there are a couple new effects that he added that he probably should have left out -- the junkyard reveal doesn't belong... as well as the new digital shot of Reeve fleeing metropolis. my guess is he invested too much time trying to "perfect" those shots and he wanted to have something to show for it.

Not sure about branching. When I watched it (and burned it) it was the blank bullets reveal. Yeah, the first 15 minutes drag. I told him the jump to Supes discovering Lois didn't work. Recapping the first film during the credits is definitely one thing Lester got right, and I'd like to think that had Donner returned, he'd have done the same. The junkyard reveal effect is distracting, but it's REALLY difficult to pull off an effect like this, and I give him the utmost respect for trying. Never had a problem with the new flying shot of him fleeing the city. If anything, the flying shot right after the S reveal is what irked me. Superman appears, then just "floats" in the same spot, THEN flies forward again. Also, the music fades for this scene could've been MUCH better.

Now before anyone calls me a hypocrite for defending his bad S reveal but commenting on the music fade, it is MUCH easier to do music transitions than full fledged rotoscoping with other added effects.

Other than that, I liked a lot of the other effects he added in. I like how he made Jor-el's head the proper gray color, as well as using the crystal viewer for Lex to watch during the same scene. For me, little things like this (ok, maybe not so little in terms of rendering time lol) inspired me to try them out on my own. Who knows, maybe one day my fan cut of S2 won't even have any of Selutron's scenes, as I'll use those videos as a template to do it my own way, with perfect video and sound quality.

I'm getting tingly just thinking about it lol.

I realize as much as the next guy that it's hard labor to try to add new effects. I just think he was too close to the material and this is why he decided to keep the FX even when the better option would be to let it go. Let's face it - we don't need the S reveal at that point. The user gets the idea -- and it's arguably a smarter decision to leave it at that until we hear the music kick in back in metropolis. It's a more satisfying (IMO) return.

I would stick with the Lester opening until the villains are released, then use his cut for just about the rest of the film (minus the blank bullet and S reveal):

• Lester cut to villains escape
  
• Booshman thru to Niagara Falls
  
• Lester pink bear
  
• Back to booshman to just before power restoration
  
• Donner cut for powers restored
  
• Back to booshman
  

The only other thing - the audio on several occasions is not synchronized with the video properly... while it is annoying it's just one of those things you either take it or leave it.

Conceivably, if I scheduled 4 bathroom breaks for my wife throughout the film - she would not know that I swapped 3 separate cuts in the blu-ray player.

I would love to make my own edit -- but where do you guys find the time if you are gainfully employed?

[Bobby M]

Has anybody seen RKS's cut? I downloaded it recently and, having scanned through it, I'm mighty impressed. It includes just about everything I'd want in there (such as the pink bear and memory kiss scenes) plus the way he did the opening titles is PHENOMENAL. They're basically the Donner Cut ones in the style of STM, but with the Lester recap seamlessly integrated into them. Plus it has the opening Daily Planet scene shot by Donner (minus Lois' jump) AS WELL as the Paris sequence, with the Donner Cut release of the villains that features the cool vortex/Phantom Zone split. And there's no spinning the world back, while including Lester's brilliant ending. Having looked through it, about the only thing I don't like is the way there's footage from other sources spliced into Zod's speech to give it a more global feel. I applaud the effort, but I really don't like it when fan-edits include secondary footage that doesn't really match the main body of the film, as I find it pulls you out of the experience. Apart from that, though, it looks great. Anyone seen it?

[TylerDurden389]

I've seen every fan edit of S2. The RKS is definitely one of the better ones. As for other footage taking you out of the film, well it's just one of those things where many editors want to "complete' the film since many of us feel the film was never completed in the first place. Where's Clark and Lois flying to Niagara Falls? Where do Lex and Eve go after they leave the FOS? Where did the car come from that they used to get back to civilization? What happened to the villains and Lex after the big switcheroo at the end (leaving out the deleted scene of course)?

So it's trying to find that balance where you, as an editor, create new scenes, but make sure these new scenes don't "stick out". Selutron did it perfectly IMO. I have a few ideas like that of my own. As for a global speech scene, no, it ain't happening (sorry ATP). I feel something that "epic" would stand out too much no matter how cleverly edited it was done. Then again, if Sel would release his cut, who knows.

[ChrisM]

does the RKS use bullet FX for the white house invasion? and what about the teleportation of the sherrif's rifle?


The opening 15 minutes of RKS sounds a lot tighter than REDUX. anyone care to put the RKS opening on youtube?

[Bobby M]

I think the White House and Houston scenes are as is, apart from edits made for pacing/serious tone.

No idea how to convert and upload to YouTube, but what I will say is that the opening of the RKS version is the most impressive and professional I've seen from any fan-edit. But then, it's all down to personal taste. If you love Lester's original like I do, then you'll probably dig it. But I know some people find the opening credits recap to be superfluous.

[Jack Tripper]

anyone have a link to download this RKS?

[Bobby M]

Fan-Edit, dude. Just Google. You'll need something like JDownloader for it too.

[crazy_asian_man]

But I know some people find the opening credits recap to be superfluous

.

As mentioned before- Mank's script includes something like that:

FILM CLIP MONTAGE REPRISE:
A reprise of selected film clips from SUPERMAN with the
exact content to be determined, but certainly
establishing:
A. The trial of the VILLAINS, their condemnation by
JOR-EL, and GENERAL ZOD'S vow of ultimate revenge.
B. Briefly, the characters of CLARK/SUPERMAN, LOIS,
LUTHOR, EVE, AND OTIS.
C. The hurling of the nuclear missile into space, and
its ultimate explosion near the Phantom Zone.

It doesn't note whether this happens over the credits, but credits are not stated anywhere in the beginning of this script- so, it could be argued either way whether or not the recap would have happened over the credits if Donner stayed on...

In any case- it brings up a thought:

* If Donner wanted this 'seamless' to match with STM, and no direct flashbacking of scenes or narration (like Peter Jackson chose to do with the LOTR sequels- it just goes right into the next chapter)---

Then.... the Mankiewicz script recap instructions don't really belong there, if that was going to be the concept. You HAD to see the original as a prerequisite to following SII smoothly.

Fade in..... We'd just see the rocket continue, explode, and free the criminals. All the other info would be provided by Jorel when Luthor arrives.

It's an intriguing way to go about it- let the audience who HADN'T seen the first one be in the dark (sortof, though it's not hard to figure out) until Lex discovers it at the FOS from Jor-el and not have to rehash one frame of the STM trial. Also, it would help add some layer of intrigue to it. If there were an alternate way to do this film, this might be the way to go. You just were required to really view the films as one piece, if so.

However, going by the Mank script as more/less what they WERE committed to doing, meant that they WERE going to rehash the same trial material in some form or another- PLUS the time-reversal ending swapped out to the first film--- it meant a pretty sizable compromise no matter how you look at it. If it was always meant to be one fantastic seamless two-parter that had to be seen together, then ONLY fan cuts I think would be able to somewhat restore this.

I haven't seen all the fan cuts, but I think there was mention of a cut that tried to follow the 'Peter Jackson/LOTR trilogy' route and do this- removing the duplicate time reversal and having the end of STM just be a cliffhanger as originally intended.

Anyhow..... the credit recap is a bit of an artistic compromise, if the work was meant to be always seen side-by-side. But then again, so would the regurgitation of the trial.

Fan cuts over this film almost have the worst situation imaginable in trying to 'restore' it to Donner's original vision.

For one, there's not enough footage shot by him to ever really complete it properly.
Second, the compromises of the footage that was shot by him that was messed up by bad decisions on Thau's part.
Third, the project would even have had compromises if Donner came back---

I'm not certain at this point whether or not Donner/Mank would have addressed the time reversal with Jorel/Supes. If Donner/Mank were always fine with the 'gap' of Lois/Clark driving back from the fortress, I have a bad hunch that they would have also been fine with the 'gap' of Jorel not mentioning that it was forbidden by human history for Supes to change time.

I go by this, because in Donner's other films ---as enjoyable as most of them are--- there are a lot of times where Donner willingly dumps out extreme story logic for a happy ending. (Conspiracy Theory's ending blows, despite an otherwise great movie- "Assassins" ending is truly awful and unbelievable)

There is a lot of perfectionism in scenes of SII from the Donner/Mank/Baird collaboration--- but I have this funny hunch that a lot of fan editors may be harder on completing the unfinished film of SII with intense story logic than Donner or Mank may have been.

O well....

[EvilSupes]

I have yet to find a fan edit of S2 that is 'just right' for me regarding pacing, certains scenes etc. Some have come very close, but there just isn't enough there still to fix certain elements unless the editors are prepared to make the fixes and additions themselves - so far only few have done this.

I've got a few S2 edits to watch alongside the Superman blu-ray anthology this week, one would be CAM's latest edit, booshman's REDUX which I have to see (looks very interesting) and tyler.. where could one find your edit?

[Bobby M]

Body double. CGI can help it.

[atp]

If they included footage from the elephant man or jack the ripper movies, would that pull you out of the experience?

[TylerDurden389]

Jun 13, 2011 4:16:27 GMT -5 EvilSupes said:

and tyler.. where could one find your edit?

Mine is in the unapproved section of the fanedit website. It's the "no camp cut" (name will be changed when I finish this for good. Since I'm creating a new repowering scene, I'm most likely gonna call it the "repowered cut"). I'd like to say that mine will be pleasing to watch, since the whole reason I made it was the same as you. No one fan edit gets it exactly the way I want, so I took the ideas that I like from every cut and put it all together, with my own edits of course. However, as CAM just stated, personal tastes. I included EVERY Selutron scene, so it's not even a matter of debating over pink bear reveal or blank bullets reveal, since he combined them together, somewhat. For what it's worth though, once I finished my edit for good, I'm going to have 2 versions. The public consumption cut that's uploaded for downloading. This one will be much more streamlined WITHOUT any of my "radical" new ideas. However, my "director's cut" so to speak, will have everything but the kitchen sink.

As for using ideas from other edits, now that I'm learning how to do real video effects (and not just cutting and pasting as I've done all these years), when I finish this for good, I won't be using ANY bits and pieces from any other fan edit, not even Selutron. I'm going to learn the effects and do them all myself.

1. All of Selutron's scenes
2. Brand new opening credits done in the same fashion as the theatrical (with recap), but BETTER effects to look like the credits in S1.
3. Jor-el's face being the proper gray/white color
4. The combination of blank bullets and pink bear scenes
5. Some of CAM's flying effects
6. POSSIBLY the villains destroying the Eiffel Tower.
7. A new re-powering scene where Supes flies through the ceiling of the FOS (rotoscoping the scene from STM where he flies through the roof after Eve saves him) and flies over water, creating waves from a sonic boom. Rotscoped shots from S3 will be used here.
8. EVERY flying shot throughout the film that's a miniature will be replaced with REAL flying shots of Reeve, mostly from S3. Don't worry, as far as flying shots from S4, the shot that we're all thinking of WILL NOT be used.
9. The "tornado" effect idea for when Supes spins Zod around before throwing him into the Coca Cola sign. I'll probably use a few shots of people flying back (from when the villains use their super breath) during this sequence. But whichever shots I use (if I do this) will not be repeated for the scene they were made for.

As for anything else, it's all misc. edits. Bullet ricochets for the white house invasion (as Booshman has done). LOTS of color correction for any theatrical S2 scenes AND deleted scenes that I use. One thing that I MUST point out is that this will still be done in standard quality. Considering that the deleted scenes have not been retouched for the blu-rays, and considering that the reason I'm taking the plunge to learn these new effects is because of the drop in quality whenever I use Selutron scenes, High Definition is out of the question. The rendering time would take too long. For what it's worth, I'm still disappointed that I can't use any video clips from the RIC.

[ChrisM]

Ok, so how expensive would it be to purchase video-editing software?

And what kind of system horsepower (RAM, clock speed) would I need to make this venture even worth pursuing?

I'm only considering the idea because I've seen enough incremental improvements to S2 in the various fan edits to think there is finally enough material to work with, without having to create new or altered shots. I love the idea of editing from a creative standpoint.

I would suggest for people starting out like myself - to work with STM. There are only a few editorial decisions that could really be improved... provided you want to trim down a few scenes or integrate some footage from the expanded edition.

[Bobby M]

The right software is quite pricey I think, Chris. But not if you use BT.

Jun 13, 2011 7:53:26 GMT -5 atp said:

If they included footage from the elephant man or jack the ripper movies, would that pull you out of the experience?

Yes. But it would be damn creative and pretty fucking hilarious.

[Knight]

I have had my cut done for ages now,it's an MPEG file. I can play it on windows media player,but can I heck burn it to a DVD. Keeps saying it's to big to fit on a disc at 2hrs and 13mins... yea,right. Worthless piece of Sh!t... How can I convert it to an AVI?

I have used free trail converters but they crop the picture with added borders...

Anyway,I am proud of what I have cut together. It's the only one I watch as it contains the best of both films.

Follows Lester's narrative but with the inclusion of Brando in prologue and recap titles...with a change of including the villains release upon XK101 explosion.

It has the Paris Bomb plot,but with no explosion...we hear it as Superman flys back to earth but never see it.
Shot of the earth zooming up to camera (right after DC opening credits)
DC DP ext. Cuts into TDP, ''great story,Lois.'' ''thanks, Chief...'' (no mention of luthor looking lovely etc) she gets the paper,talks with Jimmy,Jimmy walks off...no drawing conclusions...she looks at the picture,back to Clark and Jimmy,then sits back and whistles... scene ends upon Perry closing the door behind him as he leaves his office.

LC prison and Lunar villains....
DC prison scene,escape until Otis walks out for the ladder...
LC all the way to ''have a happy,whatever''. the porter leaves the room...
Lex and Otis in Balloon...due north. Lester all the way to ''Yes Lex, North'' on the snowspeeder...
DC deleted scene Superman's home...approach to the FOS
DC FOS ''you must be wrong Lex''...fortress,cut out ''it has everything/you should have went before we left/that was two days ago...''
included ''it looks like some kind of control panel...'' while taking out ''why doesn't the guy put up some bull fight posters''.
DC all the way until Lex ''too true to be good''.
Deleted scene Lex and Eve go south...
LC Lois comes to conclusions,waterfall jump...LC all the way to:
Zod ''or all of his cities will end up like this one...
DC Clark loses his powers, inter cut with a flipped image of the head shot of Superman as he changes colors during LC de-powering inside the chamber. Weaves back to reactions of Lois in blue shirt and Jor-El...back to chamber.
LC Superman breaks in two,stripped of muscles etc and back to reactions and explosions of the DC,all DC music looped over the above.
DC White House attack...
DC drive back to Don's Diner/fight/White House/
LC Zod:''Revenge...'' until ''Australia''.
DC...Clark walks back int. FOS... long shot of Clark in distance as he shouts ''Father''. looped from LC... regains powers from Jor-El.
DC DP... ''He'll be here...''
LC woman brushes her hair...''Sounds like an earthquake...'' Non picks up Perry,crashes him through ceiling...
DC Zod watches,Lois punches Ursa,Lex dusts down his jacket,Jimmy takes Non's picture...Non crushes camera...
LC Lois ''you alright, Chief?'' Lex's uses door scene...
DC Lex enter's the office ''high!''.... all the way until: Zod ''kill the rest,starting with him...''
LC Non approaches Lex with a growl...all the way until Superman appears...his famous line,reactions...
DC Lois ''Superman'' all the way until...
LC ''I'm not a coward,Zod.''
DC reaction shot of Lois and Perry as the wall crumbles... Taxi driver ''man is he good...''
LC Superman takes off,Non chases him...
DC reaction from DP staff as the wach Non and Superman fly through the city... DC all the way until Superman flys from the statue of liberty...edit...in DP Lex takes the coffee.. etc,''Cheifs got it!''. Superman flying...(that flipped shot from STM before he saves the cat in the tree)...
LC Shot of Ursa and Non,cut away to street level reaction...Ursa grabs Superman...
DC ''what you hit a women?''...all the way until Zod uses heat vision to blow up car,third time... cut to:
LC car explodes... all the way until Non 'lands' on Superman hitting him into the ground...
DC Jimmy looks down...until debris falls to the ground from Non crashing through the building...
LC Superman gets out of the ground/throws Zod/bush gets hurled at Superman...
DC Lois and Perry's reaction all the way too cars crashing into the buildings.use of Superbreath. Superman climbs out from behind bus (no pushing down of whatever thau shot) he flys off,Villains return to TDP. ''Suerman's address...'' Non growls...
LC ''Come,the three of us will crush the son of our jailer''...''why not increase his handicap''...
DC flying to the fortress...
Deleted scene...Son of Jor El,prepare to die...
DC FOS until Superman steps into chamber
LC Superman loses powers
DC Superman steps out of chamber...etc...
Deleted scene...Lex tries to wager a deal with Superman... Superman and Lois are about to take off...
DC destroys fortress and kiss, dialogue scene...ends on ''there he goes again. Up,up and away...''
DC Clark walks towards DP doors,bumps into them and walks on (cuts right before the camera pans past the wall or pillar...)
LC Clark hangs up coat,goes into Lois' office... all the way until they sit down. ''....I'm sorry.'' ''I'm sorry too...''-edit- ''You know it may not be easy for you to hear this now...'' scene plays out until Lois starts typing...
DC ''Superman Takes Day off!''.
Deleted scene of Clark,Jimmy and the bully...
LC diner scene,flying the flag sorry Mr President...
credits...




Stuff I left as Lester...well,it's what I grew up watching and it's not SII without it. The opening music,the recap,the alley change and the paris bomb plot etc. Hick town and sideshow sheriffs, the english kid,the Lester beam...and the bell boy...the niagra jump,all that stuff...the memory kiss...etc. Like Lester or Loathe him,I'm sure you all have various fond connections with different aspects of Lester's movie...

I kept as is just included Brando and cut out some shit towards the end during the metropolis battle.

and of course, I kept Superman's return to TDP...

if I could burn this to a disc and spin off a few copies I would...

[TylerDurden389]

Womble MPEG Video Wizard is a simple, easy to use program and it's what I've used up until this point.

[ChrisM]

Jun 13, 2011 13:21:34 GMT -5 Bobby M said:

The right software is quite pricey I think, Chris. But not if you use BT.

Pricey is a relative term, bud. We talkin $500 or $5000? I just need some recommendations on products to get sniffing around...

[crazy_asian_man]

If you're on a macintosh, I highly reccomend Final Cut Pro Express-
$200--- a little cheaper if you go with the educational store section of apple-

Here's the main link, though:
store.apple.com/us/product/MB278

If you're on a pc, I've tried Premiere Pro, but a downsized version of the same is available on an educational site for about $69-
www.journeyed.com/item/Adobe/Premiere+Elements/1459855

Highly reccomend Final Cut Pro--- Premiere I hear is the equivalent on pc.

[crazy_asian_man]

Stuff I left as Lester..well,it's what I grew up watching and it's not SII without it. The opening music,the recap,the alley change and the paris bomb plot etc. Hick town and sideshow sheriffs, the english kid,the Lester beam...and the bell boy...the niagra jump,all that stuff...the memory kiss...etc. Like Lester or Loathe him,I'm sure you all have various fond connections with different aspects of Lester's movie...

I remember conversing with TylerDurden about this, too- for those of us who grew up with Lester's version and have seen it ten billion times- if you cut something mediocre from it- at times you can't help but feel 'something is missing here'.

In many ways, the situation that the Donner Cut and Lester cut's existence have presented--- wherein some of the stuff in the sacred Donner footage isn't that great, and some of the stuff in the loathed Lester cut isn't that bad, makes for one 'worst case' scenario if you're at all indecisive over what to keep and leave out for a fan cut.....
*sigh*

[TylerDurden389]

Jun 14, 2011 0:30:20 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I remember conversing with TylerDurden about this, too- for those of us who grew up with Lester's version and have seen it ten billion times- if you cut something mediocre from it- at times you can't help but feel 'something is missing here'. In many ways, the situation that the Donner Cut and Lester cut's existence have presented--- wherein some of the stuff in the sacred Donner footage isn't that great, and some of the stuff in the loathed Lester cut isn't that bad, makes for one 'worst case' scenario if you're at all indecisive over what to keep and leave out for a fan cut.....
*sigh*

Yeah, if you look at my earlier drafts and compare them to my newer ones, you'll see that I took out little snippets of dialogue throughout that I originally didn't like, but have since reconsidered. However, I put them back in not so much for feeling that 'something's missing", but more-so because even if I get the edit right, meaning it's smooth and there's no jump that makes it obvious that it's been edited, I still feel that keeping the dialogue in works for the scene. Meaning it just "flows" better and makes the scene "complete". With the missing dialogue the scene just goes by too quickly. Some edits are still there because I've simply gotten used to them, or I REALLY don't like how it was originally done. Mostly Supes' stuttering and stammering when he explains the green crystal to Lois, and a line or 2 of dialogue at the DP Paris scene.

[ChrisM]

Let's say I get Premiere Pro...

for a newb, how much of a learning curve would you say there is?

what would you say are the biggest technical challenges with the editing process? (not the creative decisions... just the technical issues with splicing video and audio, learning how to use the editing software, etc.)

for minor edits - like with STM for example - how much time would be reasonably required to do a through job?

[Knight]

STM is a doddle to edit. I use the theatrical edition and simply edit in, Superman talking to Jor-El after the first night,include the fire bullets and ice seen into the cut...

Superman takes XK101 into space,flys back to earth, rocket (elavtor from SII) explodes...releases the villains...

edit out Superman turning the world back,and backwards footage etc and am done...

[Bobby M]

I've used Adobe before. It takes some time to get to grips with the icons, what everythoing does and so forth, but you'll pick it up quickly. After that, it all depends on how complex your edit is going to be. That and practice.