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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 8, 2011 8:15:11 GMT -5
When I was mocking "magic" Allan Scott, I was pointing out how unwieldy it is to have a different character with a similar but different power set with the SAME NAME running around in the same reality. Everything else, I agree with. In fact, I bet we'll see exactly that. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Kal-L back with the JSA on their alternate world, and that's just fine with me! It's kinda why I'm OK with Captain Marvel being sent off into the Multiverse, as well. I just think that putting the Marvel Family in the middle of the "realistic" DCU just...always ends up failing. There's only a handful of stories you can tell with them like that. But, on an Earth-S where more whimsical/Shazam-appropriate stories can be told, well... I think that karmically we both owe our significant others dinner and a foot massage considering that we can carry on like this and still they don't move out on us. ;D  i am quite dutiful in that regard- but duly noted. good advice eh? |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 18, 2011 6:30:22 GMT -5
www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07/18/cover-to-action-comics-1-superman-in-jeans-and-an-american-citizen-again/Interesting. So, apparently, for this first story arc, or at least part of it, they WILL have Clark running around in the jeans/t-shirt/short cape costume/non-costume. However, this cover image is quite telling... Bullets are bouncing off of him. This pretty much puts to rest any notion that either his powers come from the suit or his invulnerability does. His eyes aren't red. This also puts to rest the ridiculous notion that his eyes are always red and the glasses do something to offset that. He may or may not be flying here. Now, if he's "leaping" ala Golden Age Supes, then this pretty much completely SQUASHES the idea that they're removing the Action #1 Siegel/Shuster lawsuit elements from the character in preparation for the big lawsuit thingamajig. If those things are in place, then it's pretty clear we don't have to worry about there not being a Krypton, or a Clark Kent, etc. In other words, SUPERMAN IS STILL SUPERMAN. I'm looking forward to this now. Unreservedly. If what Grant Morrison delivers is HALF as good as All Star Superman, it'll still be the 2nd greatest Superman story of the last 20 years. Oh, and check out the cover to Justice League #2, which has the first close-up look at the new Superman suit. It looks much easier to stomach here. Not particularly armor-like, except for the area around the boots. I can live with this suit. And I still think it's very similar to what we'll see Cavill wearing.
i.newsarama.com/images/JUSTL_Cv2_asjdhfkajhsdkfjasyar.jpg
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 18, 2011 8:45:16 GMT -5
yeah the alternate cover is a LOT better.
my theory is the kal-el baby blanket is the cape- and its the ONLY "indestructable" element in his suit.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 18, 2011 8:49:39 GMT -5
I dislike the jeans/t-shirt thing, but it clearly is going to serve a story purpose, so I'll deal with it. And I trust Morrison possibly more than any other writer.
I'm mostly just happy that our little bugaboo worries about massive changes to Supes appear to be put to rest here.
Note the numbers on the police cars...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 18, 2011 13:10:14 GMT -5
Love Perez's art style..... his writing? Eh.
Wish I could get more excited about ANY of these changes.
If they had said that Geoff Johns, and ONLY Geoff Johns would be in charge of the writing for Superman, I think I'd be more apt to run to the bookstore for this.
As is.... neither Perez as writer nor Rags Morales as artist make me all that jazzed for the Superman series.
Was more excited when John Byrne took over the three main titles...
But, will wait to see if there's enough good buzz to see if it's worth picking up at this point.....
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Jul 18, 2011 14:40:21 GMT -5
So the Kents will be dead in this new Superman series? That kinda sucks. I hope it's not going to be they were murdered so that Clark decides to use his powers for good, so that things like that doesn't happen again.
I'm curious about this, but I am an hour away from the nearest comic shop. I don't really wanna do the online comic, because I like to have the actual thing in my hand to read.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 18, 2011 16:25:55 GMT -5
Morrison is writing Action, not Perez.
And what "changes"? All of this stuff is taken from previously existing incarnations of Superman, with the possible exception of (gasp) Lois dating somebody else!
Scaled back power set? Golden age/Byrne years
No marriage (thank fuck)? 95% of every Superman story ever told.
Ma and Pa Kent both dead? Every Superman story from 1938-1986.
Supes as a "Stranger in a Strange Land"? From roughly 1948 (when it really started to matter) until 1986, Supes was ALWAYS portrayed as Kryptonian first, human second. He was always crying about Krypton, going back in time to observe his parents, etc. etc. etc. This is nothing new.
Supes as social justice champion. See: All Superman comics published between 1938-1945.
Now that I don't have to worry about bullshit like there being no Lois, no Clark, no Daily Planet, no Krypton, a new power set, etc, I am officially excited as heck for this. Supes has been in desperate need of a full-blown reboot for at least the last ten years, and they got one of the only two or three guys I would trust to do it. (Although, I'd be much happier if Geoff Johns was writing the other monthly, and not Perez).
People who (say in Simpsons Comic Book Guy voice for full effect) "don't want to live in a world where Superman doesn't wear red underpants" will always have their back issues. As for me, a Superman fan who is thoroughly depressed that I can count on ONE HAND the number of memorable Superman stories of the last 15 or so years, sign me up for the ride. Seriously. Think about that. Our favorite character has, with very few exceptions, sucked ass month in and month out since he DIED AND CAME BACK in 1994.
I wonder if there was an internet in 1956 if nerds would have blown their o-rings over the new Flash. "waaaaaaaaaaaa...he doesn't wear a helmet! Now his pants are RED, Flash's pants are supposed to be BLUE! He's not even Jay Garrick anymore! I'm boycotting this comic!"
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 18, 2011 16:50:03 GMT -5
;D val....
when the "new flash" witout the helmet, when that happened they KEPT the old flash too!
( i know you know this)
but your point that this new iteration is actually an amalgamation is spot on.
(the biggest departure being the suit).
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 18, 2011 17:01:30 GMT -5
The "old Flash" didn't make an appearance for FIVE YEARS in "Flash Of Two Worlds". They had no multiverse idea to shunt him off to at the time until "Flash Of Two Worlds". And why did they introduce a new Flash in the first place? Because sales of superhero comics were IN THE TOILET (comparatively, which means they were still selling ten times as many as they are today) and they needed to shake things up by introducing a new version of an old favorite with a "cooler" design. Sound familiar? So, for the continuity lawyers, take comfort in knowing that all of your precious FICTIONAL stories where our favorite flying musclehead wore the correct color underpants still "actually happened" just somewhere else in the DC Multiverse. And it was even longer before Alan Scott showed up again. In other news, I fucking hate other comic fans. I'm a self-loathing comic fan. It's true. Why, you ask? furiousfanboys.com/2011/06/dc-reboot-protest-planned-for-san-diego-comic-con/ |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 19, 2011 17:22:10 GMT -5
A fun interview with Grant Morrison. He doesn't reveal much, but once again, it's safe to say that we aren't looking at some kind of radical reinvention of Superman with no Daily Planet, Luthor, etc. www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=33386 |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 20, 2011 16:42:22 GMT -5
The "old Flash" didn't make an appearance for FIVE YEARS in "Flash Of Two Worlds". They had no multiverse idea to shunt him off to at the time until "Flash Of Two Worlds". And why did they introduce a new Flash in the first place? Because sales of superhero comics were IN THE TOILET (comparatively, which means they were still selling ten times as many as they are today) and they needed to shake things up by introducing a new version of an old favorite with a "cooler" design. Sound familiar? So, for the continuity lawyers, take comfort in knowing that all of your precious FICTIONAL stories where our favorite flying musclehead wore the correct color underpants still "actually happened" just somewhere else in the DC Multiverse. And it was even longer before Alan Scott showed up again. In other news, I fucking hate other comic fans. I'm a self-loathing comic fan. It's true. Why, you ask? furiousfanboys.com/2011/06/dc-reboot-protest-planned-for-san-diego-comic-con/as to your first point- was this the ..."origin" of the mutli-verse? interesting that it was Flash- as he seems to be atthe center of that 'angle'. as to your second point- there has been a lot of...talk, about " if there was an internet when...."and it reminds me of pre-internet fanboy rage. back when paramount was planning what would become STII:TWOK, it was "leaked" that spock would die. pre-internet. epic-scale fanboy backlash. huge huge. in fact, paramount wanted to change the story- just to keep spock alive- but nic meyer held his own, and frankly it was a deal-breaker for nimoy anyway. and then, STII became one the best, if not THE best, trek flicks of all time. i don't know. i'm just reminded of that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 21:16:03 GMT -5
At this point, I'm more excited about Morrison's take on Action, T-shirt and jeans, than the other Superman title, with Kryptonian battle suit armor!!!! DC Direct Toys!!!! Lots o' toys!!!! Gotta sell the toys!!! So let's create three different suits!!!
Parts of this still reek of an over-the-top attempt for any sales, much less comics.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 21, 2011 6:19:31 GMT -5
Of course it is! Comic sales are the worst they've been pretty much, well...ever! And Superman comics sell really, really, really poorly. And with good reason. They suck.
If this brings new fans into the hobby, then it's a good thing. And by fans, I mean readers, not speculators (like in the 90s). Otherwise, these characters will fade away in print inside of ten years. And trust me, if that happens, the only ones that will survive AT ALL in other media will be guys like Batman. We can't get a decent Superman movie or video game NOW, imagine what it'll be like if they aren't even publishing his comics anymore.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 23, 2011 10:40:20 GMT -5
well, i go tmy free copy of "the new Dc preview" and flipped through it..wow, what a hoot. of the 52 titles, less than HALF will last a year. some of these...its like..really? of course the BIG characters will be ok, green lantern and batman will be fine as they didnt get dicked over. superman MIGHT benefit from this- but the stories will have to be SUPERB to compensate for the shit costume. ironically, wonder woman's costume is less shitty. and while we're scratching our heads wondering where the JSA and captain marvel are, HAWKMAN is the carter hall golden age version and appears that there may be a thanagarian angle to it. man, hawkman is the one character that DID need a start-over! but even now, almost as bad as in zero hour, DC keeps it confusing. EVERY other character is being modelled on the silver age version....  Superman- "doomsday happened" the wedding didnt. justice league- batman and green lantern are unchanged after flashpoint, but somehow don't know each other..  justice league itnernational- ok, i HAVE to read this! its a similar lineup as th elate 80's goofy justice league- with guy and booster (sadly- ted kord is still not blue beetle) Flash - barry allen is back... is this a recent thing? i havent read flashpoint- is barry theflash? superboy- it is connor kent. the batman books- all look good. the numebring is just a hiccup for them. except " batwing". 4 issues. tops. swamp thing and jonah hex are back. thats cool, i'm casual about them but they have a devoted following. a "horror" line.... "I,Vampire" seriously? 4 issues. tops. "deathstroke" the teen titans villain. seems to have a He-Man broad sword and a klingon dagger and killing zombies... " frankenstien agent of s.h.a.d.e." seriously? seriously! "hawk and dove" ;D oh shit ! rob liefeld is back!! ironically, it was about 20 years ago his big "break" was a hawk and dove mini series and here he is...art isnt any better... TWO legion books, one set NOW, the other in the 30the century. all in all, if money were no object, i'd read maybe 15 titles. i won't be able to sustain that so i won't max ten titles thats IF they're any good. |
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Post by supes78 on Jul 23, 2011 18:53:48 GMT -5
From a business standpoint, McFarlane makes some VERY valid points about the Sept. DC relaunch. From: www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=33485CCI EXCLUSIVE: McFarlane on DC Relaunch: "I'll Bet Against It"
At Comic-Con International in San Diego, "Spawn" creator and Image Comics co-founder Todd McFarlane spoke with CBR Executive Producer Jonah Weiland in a far-ranging video interview discussing McFarlane's new projects and the state of the industry in general Their first topic of conversation: DC Comics' September relaunch, which will see that publisher revamping its entire line of comics and restart every series from issue #1, including flagship titles "Action Comics" and "Detective Comics." McFarlane's response was candid, to say the least. Below is a transcript of McFarlane discussing his thoughts on the relaunch, including how he would have handled the initiative. Check back with CBR in the coming days for the full video interview.
Jonah Weiland: I want to talk about the business of comics a little bit. The business of comics is struggling. Comics sales have not been great -- you may have seen it with your own titles as well. So, DC is trying something different and has this massive relaunch coming in September. I'm curious what your thoughts are on DC's relaunch at this point.
Todd McFarlane: I'll bet against it. And here's why: I think it's a fool's game, I'm not on board, I think it's a fool's game what they're doing. They've got 52 titles that they're launching #1, I'm down with that idea. Right? I get it, right. To do it all in one month is the fallacy there. As a businessman, one of the things I try to do before I get headstrong on something is to look at historical data that will basically back up my position. I'm trying to figure out what record company, what car company, what TV show, what theatre, what ice cream parlor, put out 52 new products in the same month and expected the consumer to upgrade all 52 of them. If the answer is -- and I'd be curious to talk to DC -- if they said, 'No, no, no, we don't expect all of them to necessarily bump up," then it seems like a missed opportunity. So I understand the Top 8, 9, 10 book -- Greg Capullo, who did "Spawn," is doing "Batman," one of the more anticipated ones. But if I'm somebody who is writing, pencilling, inking the 47th book? My question would be, how are you getting the word out that my book is also gonna be a #1? How are you promoting the 47th one? It doesn't seem like there's room to get it there. And then the problem is, if you don't get a spike in the sales, it seems like a missed opportunity.
Here's what I would have done at DC (and they're not asking me): I would have taken the 52 and put out six or seven new #1s each month and spread it for seven, eight, nine months, and then you would have had people talking about those new books for half a year to a year. You could stretch it out for a year! And then, after a year, then let Marvel have the megaphone. But you could have done this, and instead you blew your whole entire wad. So now, here are your two problems: one, [say] I'm a retailer. I don't even know if they talked to any retailers.
They certainly did.
How I do order upgrade of 52 books when I've got a limited budget? How am I doing that? And then, even if I do upgrade it, how do I know that I'm going to get customers to come? I'm going to have to sell them up. It's an awkward thing for me. And then, as a consumer, you come in and go, ah, there's all those #1s but there's no way I have enough money in my pocket to buy all 52 of them. And go, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh." And here's the other one: this is not direct business, but it has an implication; if every book starts at #1, at the exact same time, fast forward a year from now and we're going to know very quickly which books were not on time.
I think one of the thoughts they had was that, if you don't go all in, you're not going to get that mainstream media coverage that they feel they need at this point. Do you think they could have still had that impact if they did 52 books over the entire year?
Yes, yes. That's how I would have done it. I'd have rolled out my two big guys in the first six. So I would have got the media kick, I'd have got the geek kick. But what do you think? The newspapers are coming and going to write about it, not because of "Doctor Fate" #1. They're writing about it because there's going to be a new "Superman" and a new "Batman," maybe a little bit of "Wonder Woman," "Flash," "Green Lantern," "Justice League," and then everything starts dropping down from there. So if you had then said, in our first wave it's going to be "Action Comics" #1 and "Batman" -- because you still save "Superman" and "Detective" for later -- you would still get your bang for the buck because you could have sold that story. I do sports figures, toys. One of the things I have to do is not put all the All-Stars in the first line. Because if I do all the All-Stars in the first line, the next line is less than All-Stars. What I do is, I take my players, and I consider them to be A, B or C level. And I put six out in each line, I put two A, two B, two C, so that I balance it throughout the year so that I don't get these spikes in sales, and retailers see this steady stream of sales at a steady volume.
At the same time, DC is adding new #1s throughout the year. They've got a couple new #1s in October, I know of a couple series coming in November and December. So they are going to augment that. But is that the way to keep this momentum going, or do they lose their momentum in a month or two after the relaunch?
I think they blow their wad, is what I'm saying. It goes like this, they get a spike, and then, good -- now you've got all the media hype, but you're not going to get the follow-up story for issue #2 and 3 and 4. So you have to get it all in a condensed, tight period of time. You're right, it'll be in every single newspaper in the country, and then it'll be gone. And by the time you get to issue 3, you're leaving an opening for Marvel, which is your competitor. And when you're in competition with people, you have to figure out how to dick-block them. Which is why you're always laying out products in a product roll-out line. Ask Apple. How do we get them to look at our product, not theirs? Apple doesn't say we're going to release the new iPod, iPad, Macbook and I'll talk to you about the cloud, all in the same day. We're going to scatter it and spread it out through the year to keep you coming back for more and more and more. Like I said, it will work right out of the gate. Yes, it's like a movie coming up on opening weekend. The successful movies don't make their nut in the opening week, they make it over time. This is one of those ones where you're going to have a big opening, and you're just going to go back to normal in three months.. |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 23, 2011 19:15:34 GMT -5
He raises some valid points, but there are two major flaws in his argument.
1) Nowhere in DC's pitch are they implying that readers will be buying all 52 #1's. The entire point of all of the "official word" from WB and DC is that this is an easy, confusion-free, ENTRY POINT that doesn't require people to read an entire line to know what's going on.
2) McFarlane has done approximately ZILCH in the comic industry in over a decade. He got when the gettin' was good. Now there ain't no gettin' to be got, and times are hard.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 23, 2011 22:41:50 GMT -5
Some more encouraging words from Grant about Superman's characterization... www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=33475"I always saw him as a proactive character...he's defined by what he doe and not what he thinks. That's why I think of him as: a guy who gets things done and does them fast without sticking around to hear thanks." |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 23, 2011 23:01:23 GMT -5
And more...
www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=33444Explaining that his Superman in "Action Comics" would be a more mischievous, "anti-authoritarian" character, Morrison reveled that Clark Kent would become almost as big a name in Metropolis as Superman.
"He's a social reformer, and Clark Kent does as much work as Superman basically uprooting corruption and exposing corruption, so the two of them are working in tandem," said Morrison. Elaborating that in his version Ma and Pa Kent are dead, Morrison told the audience his Superman will be more of a mischievous character.
"Justice may not involve the law in Superman's eyes," added Morrison.It's safe to say that Superman won't be killing or dishing out savage beatings. However, it DOES sound like he's gonna be more of the Bud Collyer/George Reeves tough guy Supes. Which I'm totally OK with. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 23, 2011 23:36:26 GMT -5
He raises some valid points, but there are two major flaws in his argument. 1) Nowhere in DC's pitch are they implying that readers will be buying all 52 #1's. The entire point of all of the "official word" from WB and DC is that this is an easy, confusion-free, ENTRY POINT that doesn't require people to read an entire line to know what's going on.. true enough, but at least half of the 52 are an obvious waste of time, a waste of paper a waste of promotion. also- it is NOT confusion free in the slightest. batman and green lantern might be accessible, but anyone else flipping through WILL have questions. |
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 23, 2011 23:39:31 GMT -5
I agree with your sentiment about a big chunk of them being a waste of time.
This is an e-mail I just sent a buddy of mine where we're discussing which of the books we're gonna check out.
Lemme tell ya. This is a tough time for me. I can't really justify buying comics AT ALL, but I'm doing it. I'm not gonna get to try everything I want. But, here's what I'm thinking...
Action (duh)
Superman (I gotta give it a shot. I don't have high hopes for this one, though)
Justice League (again, mixed on this)
I think I'm done with GL. The book has felt too "kitchen sink" for a long time now. Although, the Sinestro thing is really interesting. Still, I think it's time for me to take a rest.
I'm really tempted to give the following books a shot:
Batgirl (love Gail Simone so much)
Stormwatch (Paul Cornell is a really enjoyable, interesting writer. He did a fascinating Captain Britain series a few years ago, that's worth a look from your library. And this is supposedly one of those "cornerstone" books that explains how the new DCU works)
Now, obviously I'll pick up Batman Incorporated when it resumes, but that's not for awhile.
I'm done with the Legion books. They haven't moved me all year.
If I actually had a job/money I would check out...
Green Arrow
Captain Atom
Hawkman
Mr. Terrific
Why? Because these are definitely square one/full-reboot type books, and I'm quite curious. I bet ONE of them is really, really good. Look at it this way...when fucking Zero Hour happened I bought EVERY ZERO ISSUE, and 90 percent of them sucked a significant penis, but one of them was fucking STARMAN and I had never heard of James Robinson or Tony Harris before that book.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 23, 2011 23:53:44 GMT -5
i'm going with:
action
superman
supergirl
justice league
justice league international
hawkman
flash
maybe a couple more.
if money were no object i'd get a few batman titles too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 15:04:49 GMT -5
I'm taking Action Comics and Superman. The other 50 can eat my taint.
And I'm still taking a big risk when they're giving me stupid answers like Doomsday happened but the wedding didn't. I still don't see a point in a reboot if you don't throw out all of the major events since 1986.
Something tells me I'll stick with Action and end up dumping Superman after six issues. I'm really into Morrison's take on the costume, the attitude, everything. If this turns out half as good as All-Star, then it'll still be one of the five best storylines in the last 20 years.
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Post by Valentine Smith on Jul 27, 2011 8:14:55 GMT -5
NEIL GAIMAN INTERVIEWS GRANT MORRISON!!!!! shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/26/neil-gaiman-grant-morrison-talk/And Grant continues to prove why he's the comic writer I currently trust above all others. An excerpt where he's discussing the night he "met Superman". It was half-past-one in the morning and I was sitting up with Dan Raspler, who was the JLA editor at the time, and we were talking about Superman, that whole idea of trying to revamp Superman in the year 2000 and deal with all the problems that had been created in the 1990s. Remember when all the imaginary stories became true stories and suddenly there was nowhere else to go? We were talking about how Superman couldn’t solve these problems and we went down into that little park that’s across from the convention hall, and as we look up there was a guy walking across the tracks with his friend, but this guy’s Superman. And he’s not just any costumed convention-goer, but he’s perfect. He was like Billy Zane-meets-Christopher Reeve and he really suited the costume. So I ran over him and said, “This is quite amazing, this is the perfect time for this to happen. Could you come over and speak with us?” He came right over and he started talking in the persona of Superman. So if I said to him, “How do you feel about Lois?” he’d say “Well, Lois doesn’t quite get that I’m an alien as well as a human.” He was so in the character, but what really got me was the way he was sitting. It was this absolutely relaxed pose with one knee up and the arm bent over, and that’s what broke Superman for me. Suddenly I realized that Superman wouldn’t be a poser, he wouldn’t be a Muscle Beach steroid guy; he’d actually be completely relaxed because nothing could hurt him. He could be so open and friendly to everyone because no one can punch him or hurt him. He can’t get a cold, or be damaged by anything you’re carrying or wearing. For me that was the power of that, whether you want to frame it as magical or not, it actually informed the stories I wanted to write. I felt I understood him in a way I hadn’t until that moment. |
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Jul 27, 2011 11:40:47 GMT -5
Now that was pretty awesome read right there Val.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 27, 2011 16:28:07 GMT -5
that sound sa lot like his interview on the all-star dvd features.
i remember when he was doing JLA, and he kept gettin gmandates from DC honcho's "superman isn't that powerful he can't do that" , so he'd rewrite a script- or - "superman is electric blue now- make it work on the next arc" and he'd have to retool his next few arcs to adjust for that.
fankly- i didnt mind the elecrtic blue superman when HE was writing it.
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