"NEW" DC : general discussion

[ShogunLogan]

I'm not a DC collector...the only #2s + I will be getting are Batman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Catwoman.

I finally got Animal Man #1 along with #2...I think I'm done with that...too weird.

[Jor-L5150]

Oct 5, 2011 22:37:11 GMT -5 cjh5801 said:

Picked up Action #2 today. For those who liked #1, I think you'll love it. However, I asked my comic book store to drop all DC books from my file. The new 52 may turn out quite well, but it's not a journey I want to take.

I wonder if it's just a coincidence that we have "the new 52" and there are 52 weeks in a year? If sales expectations aren't met, perhaps DC will use the "52" as an excuse to revert back to the old continuity next year--after 52 weeks.

An old guy can hope, can't he?

hmmm... i kinda doubt they'd do that, it would mean they epic-failed.
i COULD see them self-revising and relegating "new 52" into a parallel they could wiggle out of it and go back.

"52" rings a bell because their last ret-con resulted in a series "52" and then they decided there'd be 52 universes in the multi-verse.
which is hilarious because the original CRISIS was because 3 or 4 universes were too unwieldy! ;D

[Jor-L5150]

UH-OH! ;D


COMICS: Largest Bookstore Chain Barnes & Noble Removes All DC Comics from Shelves

DC Comics plan to release 100 titles exclusively on the Amazon Kindle has backfired as Barnes & Nobles, owner of the Nook are furious and yanked all offending comics

Breathe slow and steady comic book fans, you'll still be able to order the titles through the company's website. But as for the store, you can't even order a copy, unless you have it sent to your home for delivery. And if you want to bring a copy of one of the offending titles into the store, you will be asked to leave.

Barnes & Nobles clearly feels they have the power in this relationship. Their competitor, Borders, went out of business. But what also is clear is that they don't have a foothold in the E-reader market. DC Comics decision to grant exclusivity to Amazon's Kindle, and ignore Barnes & Nobles' Nook has to be infuriating.

fter the announcement last week that the upcoming Kindle Fire tablet will come with one hundred DC Comics’ backlist titles of comic books and graphic novels pre-installed, Barnes & Noble pulled all of the print editions of every title off its store shelves. There has been some speculation about the length of time this near-boycott will take place, as well as rumors about some of the motivation behind the move.

“We will not stock physical books in our stores if we are not offered the available digital format,” chief merchant for B&N Jaime Carey said in a statement. “To sell and promote the physical book in our store showrooms and not have the ebook available for sale would undermine our promise to Barnes & Noble customers to make available any book, anywhere, anytime.”

While there has been talk that the digital deal with Amazon is set only for a four-month time period beginning with the Kindle Fire’s launch, and while Barnes&Noble has only pulled the book from physical locations as opposed to removing it from its website and special orders catalogs, the end result is that digital DC Comics‘ fans will have to get these titles through Amazon, remembering that an iOS device with the free Kindle app will also pick up those titles from the Kindle Store.

DC COMICS RESPONSE

“We are disappointed that Barnes & Noble has made the decision to remove these books off their shelves and make them unavailable to their customers. DC Entertainment will continue to make our content available to our fans and new readers through multiple distribution channels including locally-owned comic book retailers, independent bookstores, other bookstore chains and other widespread means such as online through Amazon and through our apps on iOS and select Android powered devices as well as new and exciting devices going forward.”

[Deleted]

Appears DC is backing Amazon. I can't argue much. Physical book retailers are on the way out. People just don't read anymore, and the Kindle Fire looks like it could take over the e-reader market (although it's hard to tell how much of the market the Kindle owns since Amazon doesn't disclose sales figures) and a chunk of the cheap-o tablet market (but, no way it's an "iPad killer," as some of the more sensational tech writers/bloggers have tried to label it).

I've got a Kindle 2, a Christmas present from a few years back. Love it. I'd love a Kindle Fire (because even $500 for an iPad is too costly for my budget), and I could easily see giving up paper comics for digital. More convenient for me. B&N's selection here is whatever they feel like putting on the shelves, single issue or collected novel. I've used Hastings to fulfill my comic needs because of the local store's lack of interest.

[Deleted]

People would rather listen to podcasts and play games on their phones for an hour rather than actually have to...y'know...READ something.

I smile a little bit any time I see someone my age or younger reading an actual book on the subway. I read all the time on the train. Passes the time quite a bit. And I still am lucky enough to not be one of those people in constant search for happiness all day long on their cellphone.

[Jor-L5150]

Kev, i TOTALLY get what you mean. 'reading" is 'reading" whether its a screen or paper- BUT - most people "reading" text messages or what have you aren't really engaged in anything other than vapid nonsense.

so to see young people, post-internet kids with a book!

you'd be proud man, we take the kids to the library a LOT, and my oldest man, she is a friggin book worm! ;D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


anyhoo- any of you guys hit any comic-book forums? i was spelunking and a few places there's a persistent rumor the "the new 52" WILL have it's own earth-2....


since we have NO idea of shazam, or the JSA versions i think it makes sense that that would happen. but i cant find anything in official sources.
(other than didio insists that this is a new continuity, with NO "crisis oie or zero hour or etc etc- and they want to shoe-horn batman and GL recent history into new 52)

[Valentine Smith]

It does sound like there's gonna be a JSA book within the year, and that book will be set on Earth-2.

[Jor-L5150]

Oct 11, 2011 18:19:19 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

It does sound like there's gonna be a JSA book within the year, and that book will be set on Earth-2.

if, in the end, we go back to the simplicity and fun of a earth-1 and earth-2 angle- without 52 universes or if we can go more than 3 years without a major ret-con then i will say that creatively "new 52" was a good attempt. a 52 universe is too unwieldy. ret-cons just confuse readers. they need the editorial discipline to just have an "over here and over there".

[Deleted]

Got a bunch of number ones.

Wonder Woman: Potentially awesome. Very brutal. Story seems like it could be really damn good.

Green Lantern: Not too bad at all. Really didn't like the art, though. I'm not sure if this one grabbed me much.

Flash: Great. BEAUTIFUL artwork. Fun story.

Batman: Eh...why bother?

Superman: Very interesting. I like that this is not the Clark/Superman we know whatsoever.

I'll get the next issue for all of them, but so far, Action Comics is the most fun. I'm up to #3.

[Valentine Smith]

I have friends whose opinion I value who say that Wonder Woman is the best of the New DC books. Haven't checked it out, myself.

Flash is so nice, though. The story so far (#3 just came out) has been just OK, but Manapul's artwork is so dynamic and fun and creative that I'm keeping this book for as long as he's drawing it.

And since it's Barry whose the lead, and it seems to be early in his career, and they're playing up the cop angle, and there's like ZERO "Flash legacy" involved, it can almost be like a continuation of the TV series...

[Deleted]

That's where I'm going with it. I hope Julio shows up.

[Deleted]

OKIEDOKEY!

I've had a big couple of weeks regarding the New 52. I'll stay vague so I don't spoil anything for anyone who hasn't jumped in yet. Here we go:

Action Comics - I'm really digging this a LOT. I'm completely up to date with it and can't wait to see where it goes. I love the differences. I love that Clark is kinda a shitbag. It works. It's fantastic. I LOVE that it's got sci fi elements in it already. Art is great. Story's been great. Definitely one of my favorites.

Animal Man - Excellent. I know nothing of Animal Man, never read anything with him in it, maybe a cameo here or there, but this was basically a completely blind read. Loved it. I only got #1 but I'm definitely getting the rest now. Very macabre!

Aquaman - I'm not sure where this falls in the mythos, if it was completely redone, but I'm really digging it. The art is awesome, which is par for course with Reis. The humor is fantastic, too, I mean, there HAS to be bullshit humor in Aquaman. It's AQUAMAN, for crying out loud. But I love where it's going. Again only got the first one, definitely getting the rest.

Batman - Eh. A big ol' eh. Great art, but the story is just so standard. There's no reason for me to buy this comic. It's the same Batman as you'd get in any other random Batman book. No go with me. I'll stick with rediscovering Long Halloween and Dark Victory, and maybe the Morrison run, too. I only got #1. Won't get any more.

Batman in Detective Comics - See above.

The Flash - YES. This is great. The art is BEAUTIFUL. I'm loving the storyline so far, too, I'm up to date with it, can't wait to see where this one goes, too. Intriguing stuff with the character, I love that Iris and he aren't an item. I think we're going to get the origin in the next issue, that should be fantastic. This could be one of my favorites out of the lot, honestly.

Green Lantern - Yawn. The art is downright shitty, I think. I could easily do better. The story was decent but not enough to convince me to buy anything beyond #1. Pass.

JLA - I'm liking this! Up to date with it, the art is just fucking incredible. The story's kinda standard but still really fun. It reminds me a lot of the Justice League animated series, honestly, and that's NEVER a bad thing. I'll keep on with this one.

The Savage Hawkman - I don't know too much about Hawkman, however I did really like this issue. Not a SHIT ton, but I liked it enough to want to buy the rest to see what's going on with it. I know the basics of Hawkman so it's cool to see stuff changing and the main character not knowing what's going on.

Superman - I'm liking this a lot so far. Up to date with it. I love the changes in it, he's still a bit of a dick, isn't with Lois at all, the Daily Planet stuff. Really fun. A little dense, though, and for no reason, especially issue #3, but still, I liked it. Like Action, great sci fi elements to it. Good to see that. I can't WAIT to see Jurgens and Giffen take over.

Swamp Thing - DAMN. This might be my favorite one of the bunch, and I've only read #1. Prior to this, I only JUST read for the first time anything Swamp Thing related, The Saga of The Swamp Thing, Alan Moore's first book. Loved it, a lot. This was very similar in tone to it. It's downright terrifying in moments. I literally cringed and went, "Yuggghhh!" at a couple things. I can't wait to get the rest of these. Fantastic.

Wonder Woman - Whoa! This one is great! Brutal as heck! Diana is full of attitude and not annoyingly so. She's fucking bad ass. Very violent! I LOVE the storyline, too, thus far. Very intriguing, very fun. I'm up to date with this one and look forward to getting more. Art took some getting used to but now it totally fits. As I said, story is awesome. I'm really digging it.

I gotta say, I'm enjoying the heck out of this whole New 52 thing. Feel like a kid again, going to the shop, seeing where things are going in the stories. I'm quite happy. I want to try out Captain Atom and Catwoman, too.

If I had to put what I've read in an order, this would be it, I suppose. The top nine are what I will getting monthly. The rest didn't make it:

1. Swamp Thing
2. The Flash
3. Action Comics
4. Animal Man
5. Aquaman
6. Wonder Woman
7. Superman
8. JLA
9. Savage Hawkman
10. Detective Comics
11. Batman
12. Green Lantern

[Valentine Smith]

Interesting that you loved Swamp Thing and Animal Man, but didn't care much for Batman. Same writer! I do like everything I've read by him, but this Batman run wasn't doing much for me, either...

[Deleted]

Tried:

Batwoman
Captain Atom
Catwoman

Batwoman is pretty good, actually. I'm not sold on it, I dunno if I want to buy more, but the art is great, and the story ain't bad. I might get more. Captain Atom was alright but didn't draw me in whatsoever, so I'm not gonna bother. Catwoman was flat out awful, I dunno, I fucking hate it.

[Deleted]

So, after all this time, who's reading what still?

I'm going with the following:

1. Animal Man - My favorite out of all of them.
2. Swamp Thing - My next favorite.
3. TMNT - Just fantastic.
4. Action Comics - Quite good.
5. The Flash - Slightly hit and miss but still overall good.
6. Superman - I can't wait for Jurgens!
7. Justice League - I think it's fun. But I don't know if I'll stick with it.

I need to read all of Wonder Woman, I'm behind on that, but once I get caught up, I will decide if I want it, too. I have a feeling I won't. I enjoyed Hawkman, Aquaman and Wonder Woman, but not enough to stick with them.

[Valentine Smith]

The only DC books I'm sticking with right now are:

Action (I trust in Grant)
Superman (can only get better, right?)
Flash (probably the most consistently good of all of them)
Justice League (I truly hate this comic, but I figure it'll get better. And I wanna see the new Shazam stuff)

When Batman Inc starts up again in May, I'll buy that, although I don't really consider it a New 52 book. I still see Batman Inc as part of the old DCU.

I'll probably give Earth-2 a shot as well.

[cypher85]

So I'm still reading:

DC Books

Action Comics:Really enjoying, but Grant is going down his crazy road. Haven't read issue 7 yet. He needs to reign in the obscurity a little bit.

Superman:Enjoyed issue #1, garbage ever since. Giffen and Jurgens better do a good job, or this is going the way of the dodo.

Justice League International:Not the best, but it's still Jurgens and Booster Gold. And I needs me some Booster

Green Lantern:Meh for the most part, but still moderately enjoyable.

Justice League:Enjoyable to too little actual content. It looks gorgeous but takes about 2.5 minutes to read.

Animal Man:Loving, Loving, Loving this. Like nothing else I'm reading.

Non-DC

TMNT: Loving this (see TMNT thread)

Ghostbusters: Loving this too, I'm surprised that I actually dig the cartoony style...but I do. And it's pretty well written IMO.

[ShogunLogan]

I'm not reading any DC anymore...I gave it 3-6 issues. Just didn't hold my interest anymore. For me, it was actually Aquaman that made it 6 issues.

[crazy_asian_man]

Animal Man's current writer Jeff Lemire has a great blog--- it mentions how the Jaime Delano run of Animal man is/was actually his inspiration--- (and is by far my favorite run next to Milligan's then Morrison's--- even though they built upon his).

I'm waiting for the tpb myself, (I checked out with issue #2, as it seemed a little too weird) but to me that blurb and word-of-mouth makes me more interested to go back and check this out.

[Deleted]

It's my favorite thus far. Animal Man is such a great character, I can't believe I never really knew much about him until this year. His current New 52 run is just INCREDIBLE. I'd challenge anyone who thinks comic books are for kids or losers to read that shit and think the same afterwards.

Well, no, probably not. Most people are idiots.

[crazy_asian_man]

It's my favorite thus far. Animal Man is such a great character, I can't believe I never really knew much about him until this year. His current New 52 run is just INCREDIBLE. I'd challenge anyone who thinks comic books are for kids or losers to read that shit and think the same afterwards.

The funny thing is, I thought he was a neat character WAYYY back when (before the jacket).... but I never picked up the comic until a friend of mine highly reccomended Grant Morrison's first run--- I jumped in the middle of it, and enjoyed the wackiness and humanity of it- then was suprised that immediately afterwards, Peter Milligan took over--- and took Morrison's insanity even FURTHER--- and he throws so many balls in the air, that you think, "How the heck is this going to make any sense at the end"--- but, oddly, it DOES.... and then right after that- Jaime Delano goes INCREDIBLY dark (aided by Steve Pugh's equally disturbing art) but gripping.... but towards the end of Delano's run, it goes a LITTLE too far for my taste- (it feels like Delano wanted to put a true ending on it, but since the series was continuing, it doesn't end on a note I was satisfied with) but then another writer takes over--- and it's crap.

But..... to start with Morrison, continue with Milligan, and then to Delano is a REALLY great stroke of luck for the series to have such great writers one after another on a series.

((An aside if you hunt out old Animal Man stuff- For sure, though, I'd avoid the "Death of Animal Man" series. Horribly written and pointless. "Death of Superman" it's NOT.))

[Valentine Smith]

Well, I gotta say. I'm impressed. I only buy a few of these books, but ALL of them are showing HUGE improvement with the start of their 2nd story arcs now. It's starting to feel like the DC Universe again.

ACTION: Was always good, but it felt a little "everything but the kitchen sink" in that first arc. However, these latest two issues have been interesting and original now that all the preamble is out of the way.

SUPERMAN: Still not great, but the art and coloring have improved, as has the writing. I'll stick with it.

FLASH: Always liked this, but felt the first arc kinda dragged. Now we're into the proper Rogues stuff, and it feels like a Flash book. And Manapul's art is worth the price of admission.

JUSTICE LEAGUE: As much as I LOATHED that first arc, the first couple of issues of this new arc seem more on-track. I'm hanging around.

EARTH-2: First issue didn't wow me, but the 2nd issue almost did. And the art is stunning. I'm gonna stick with this one, too.

[Jor-L5150]

can't say i'm surprised, pretty much how i thought it'd be, and with "green lantern is gay" there'll be another slight uptick, then flattening, just in time for the next stunt.

we can all wager on what said stunt will be.

ComiksDebris have published a very detailed analysis of DC Comics sales, looking back over the years to see how DC's "New 52" stacks up in comparison since its launch in September 2011.
So, in the grander scheme of things, DC's current numbers are solid, if not spectacular. Viewed over the 110 months we have consistent data on, April 2012 is No. 63 in average DC Universe unit sales, No. 34 in total DC Universe unit sales and No. 30 in total DCU dollar sales. Compared with DC's boom period from about 2005 through 2007, these numbers are low, but they hold up well against weaker years like 2003 or the first half of 2011. All told, the "New 52" seems to have stabilized DC's sales right in the middle of the spectrum.
Whether or not that's good or bad, given the massive logistical and promotional efforts and incentives that went into the "New 52" relaunch (limited returnability, deep discounts, multiple variant-cover editions) is a matter of interpretation. The good news is that DC managed to boost and stabilize its line after a very tough couple of years. The bad news is that DC took its best shot and it bought them a reset to 2010, basically./i]



now- look at the following blog post:

Comments
#1 | Certainshades on June 5, 2012 9:17pm EST
Actually...no...there is a doubt that they are ahead. Because you are forgetting to factor in all of the money that they dropped on marketing and advertising.

DC spent a buttload of money promoting the new 52. We don't have the raw numbers and we probably never will because that is not something that the company is ever going to really tell is. They aren't going to volunteer that information.

But that's the wildcard here that people keep forgetting.

DC spent a lot of money on marketing and advertising for the relaunch in September. So they were not just going to be gaining profits right away from the sales of the relaunch. They were going to have to recoup all the money they spent on building the relaunch and promoting it.

The PR machine for the new 52 did not come cheap. It was the most marketing and advertising that the company had done in YEARS. And it cost them a fortune.

Now, you can talk about the books being a more solid ground than they were a few years ago but you can't really talk about that without taking into consideration what the company put out in order to reach their current profit margin.

This is business 101. Unless the company managed to make a profit from all of the money they put into the marketing/PR for the new 52 then it can't be declared a success in any capacity.

Unfortunately, I expect that those numbers will always be kept private.
#2 | Steve Younis on June 5, 2012 10:08pm EST
Certainshades, the article is referring to sales figures, not profit.
#3 | cposul on June 6, 2012 12:51am EST
I'Ve been buying mine digitally since the relaunch and had pretty much given up collecting before that, I'm sure I'm not the only one I would love to see the numbers on downloads!
#4 | BaronSunday on June 6, 2012 6:05am EST
This actually kind of depresses me. I really hated the reboot and the abandoning of the continuity I grew up with, but I shrugged it off by saying at least they're selling more books now... I had my time with it and now it's time for a new generation to fall in love with the characters. And while it's truly impossible to know what percentage of this are new readers, and just as unlikely that we'll see just how much of it before and after are Superman sales, all it shows me is that we went through all that so that DC could sell a ton of copies of Action Comics #1. Because other than that, what this chart shows me is that there hasn't really been a significant boost in sales, except for the period immediately before Flashpoint. They didn't need to reboot to get back to this point, they could have just focused on telling better stories (because really, I'm a BIG fan and even I stopped buying both Grounded and Reign of the Doomsdays EARLY). It just all seems so wasted now.
#5 | jensmith on June 6, 2012 11:01am EST
I too would love to know DC's return on this investment however, like Steve said, this is about sales.

What I think these figures show was what a lot of people predicted would happen, there would be a spike in sales because of the renumbering and hype and then things would settle back to normal.

Personally, I don't believe Dan DiDio when he said this reboot was planned. I think he saw Flashpoint as an opportunity and ran with it.

DC has been struggling since Countdown. Final Crisis was a mess and then came World of New Krypton and Grounded. Before this reboot Superman hadn't been in Action for 2 years. I'll never understand why, after JMS quit the title, Chris Roberson was forced to write to the Grounded outline instead of bringing Superman back to Metropolis. I would've loved to see Cornell write his Lex & Loisbot arc with Superman in the picture.

The last time Clark Kent was part of the story was during Kurt Busiek's run, and honestly, that's the last time I enjoyed reading.

I'd love to see the numbers on the downloads too, the Smallville book is consistently in the top 5, I'm curious to see how many people are buying it.

[ShogunLogan]

If you all are needing any cash, it appears the new 52 are getting pretty decent coin on Ebay. I sold my dupe of Detective #1 and it got over $20 for it. I was quite surprised.

www.ebay.com/itm/110903900514?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649

[Deleted]

Whaaa?

Really? Hmmm....