Mank's biography coming

[Deleted]

Definitely on my wish list.

astore.amazon.com/supermanhomepage/detail/0813136059

[ye5man]

Should be a good read. He had a good memory on the Supes commentaries.

[atp]

Strange -- in 2006 he didn't seem to remember that STM had already used the turning back the world ending.

[Gandy]

Mank was one fucking intelligent dude.

[Kamdan]

I just wish that someone could dig up what he wrote for Dick Tracy.

[Metallo]

I'm sure his time working on Superman and The Bond films will be covered but I hope the book also covers his time working on Batman. Even though his original script wasn't used he had some good ideas and he even offered a lot of insight on the project on the dvds and other interviews.

[ye5man]

I wish Mank did the commentaries solo. Donner's memory was too hazy! Mank came across a very interesting chap

[crazy_asian_man]

I'm sure his time working on Superman and The Bond films will be covered but I hope the book also covers his time working on Batman. Even though his original script wasn't used he had some good ideas and he even offered a lot of insight on the project on the dvds and other interviews.

Would LOVE to have read his Batman adaptation--- though, after seeing Batman Begins/TDK- it's hard to see those being topped. Still.... wouldn't mind checking Mank's version out....

[Gandy]

Jan 1, 2012 18:18:06 GMT -5 ye5man said:

I wish Mank did the commentaries solo. Donner's memory was too hazy! Mank came across a very interesting chap

He had an amazing personality. It was a pleasure to have known him. He really knew his way around a script and had a very sharp mind. On his own, Mank doesn't have to toe the line, much more candid. I was surprised that he praised Pierre Spengler, saying that he knew more about making a film than the Salkinds did.

[Olly H 82]

In the Superman commentary's featuring Pierre Spengler he really comes across like he knew what he was doing and seemed to have his head screwed on. Its funny how Pierre was painted as the bad guy in the superman production and now in interviews etc he seems like a decent bloke.

[Gandy]

Pierre was saddled with all the crap jobs like giving out the bad news.

[ye5man]

Agreed Olly. I appreciate his contributions to the commentaries etc.

[crazy_asian_man]

Pierre was saddled with all the crap jobs like giving out the bad news.

The Salkinds I originally saw as 'the bad guys' for firing Donner- but over time, (and reading what came out over the years/listening to interviews)--- the bottom line is: They started the movie that WB never was going to do and came up with the money that gave it birth. It REALLY sucks that they fired the guy who made it a giant success, but then- it never would have been a project without the Salkinds to begin with....

I don't remember where I read it (maybe it was Superman Cinema) that Spengler had the rotten job of being the messenger.....but it made sense. If Spengler got the job because he was Ilya's best friend- and was hired for loyalty, then if the father was the moneyman- and money was constantly short/people not getting paid on time.... the low man on the totem pole always gets the crap jobs.

That's why out of everyone, I blame Lester the most for changing what was intended for SII.

The Salkinds came up with the money and hired Donner in the first place. Spengler it seems had to be the messenger most of the time.

Lester came in with an offer to get the money that was owed him- but Lester didn't have much respect for the work that Donner did in the first place nor the artist. If he did, he could have still have done it cheaply, but keep in line with what was intended. (At the time, they were going to offer Donner credit or co-credit--- so they didn't HAVE to change anything really big, no?)

Anyhow, hopefully the bio has even more details on the situation with Superman 1 and 2. His solo effort on "Dragnet" I really enjoyed as well as his and Donner's work on "Ladyhawke".... definitely looking forward to this as a companion to the Donner book!

[Kamdan]

Would LOVE to have read his Batman adaptation--- though, after seeing Batman Begins/TDK- it's hard to see those being topped. Still.... wouldn't mind checking Mank's version out....

Should be on the Internet somewhere, unlike his Dick Tracy script.

[Scissorpuppy]

First I ever heard of the Dick Tracy script. When was it written?

[ye5man]

That's why out of everyone, I blame Lester the most for changing what was intended for SII.

Not his fault they had a breakneck production schedule, no Brando, no Unsworth, no Mank, skeletor-Kidder, no Williams, etc

Under the circumstances, that film could easily have sucked.

[crazy_asian_man]

Not his fault they had a breakneck production schedule, no Brando, no Unsworth, no Mank, skeletor-Kidder, no Williams, etc

Under the circumstances, that film could easily have sucked.

With the Mank script, the Donner footage already half-edited, the choices already made with the cast, costume, set designs, etc.--- most of the heavy lifting was done. And the money was there, so it would not have been looking like Superman IV.

Under the circumstances, you're right it could have been worse- but also- that film could have easily been much better, too... particularly if they followed if not Mank's script- then the tone of it.

I would have totally been fine if they recast Brando if that's what it was going to take to stick to Donner's tone.

[Metallo]

The Salkinds just seem more like bad guys because despite all the problems and friction Donner delivered. He pulled it off. Then he got canned. Just leaves a bitter taste.

He was fighting an uphill battle against some of their ideas which were bad. I've never really blamed Lester for any of that or some of the problems with Superman II as far as schedule. He just got dealt a bad hand there. Only flak I give him was that I think he just wasn't the right choice to continue on from a creative POV. We saw that with Superman III. Even if some of ideas weren't his he didn't balance it all out the way Donner did on STM.

If they had kept Donner anyway SOME of the problems on SII might have been totally avoided. They should have been willing to compromise after the film was a hit. Same goes for Donner. I can't say he was blameless in all that.

[Jor-L5150]

Jan 2, 2012 8:11:25 GMT -5 Olly H 82 said:

In the Superman commentary's featuring Pierre Spengler he really comes across like he knew what he was doing and seemed to have his head screwed on. Its funny how Pierre was painted as the bad guy in the superman production and now in interviews etc he seems like a decent bloke.

i was very pleased with those, though i wish they'd have done them sooner- spengler has a great recall but it's been so long he just didn't have any passion left for it anymore.

[ye5man]

The Donner footage already half-edited

Lester had to shoot over 50% remember.

[crazy_asian_man]

Lester had to shoot over 50% remember.

Only because of what they chose to put on the editing room floor that was Donner's. If you kept in the DP jump, the fortress entrance, arctic police & the balcony scene after with Supes/Lois- that's a good chunk of footage you wouldn't have to shoot. Add to that just recasting Brando & you could have kept even more Donner material.

[Gandy]

They didn't like the material. Donner -- 25 years later -- clearly didn't like the arctic police, he removed it from his version.

[ye5man]

For me:

Paris opener > Lois jumps out of window

Pink Bear = more romantic than blank bullets

Amnesia kiss = crap but better than turning World back

Lara = preferred to Brando. "Mother, I love her!" was a nice, heartfelt line other than cold overtones of the original.

[Metallo]

Jan 4, 2012 8:41:54 GMT -5 ye5man said:

For me:

Paris opener > Lois jumps out of window

Pink Bear = more romantic than blank bullets

Amnesia kiss = crap but better than turning World back

Lara = preferred to Brando. "Mother, I love her!" was a nice, heartfelt line other than cold overtones of the original.

Agreed 100 percent. I find those Donner scenes inferior to the Lester counterparts even as basic ideas. Lois jumping out a window is absurd. Seems like they cannibalized material for the Niagra falls jump she does and that works much better.

Blank Bullets MIGHT have worked if Donner shot it properly but like you said the pink bear trip, in all its stupidity, at least has more emotion.

Turning back the world again was bullsh***. The kiss looks normal in comparison. Turning back the world makes the destruction of the Fortress pointless and Clark looks like an absolute dick for beating up Rocky, a guy who MAY have done something in another timeline.

In my ideal cut of Superman II I'd have Jor-El and Lara in that pre depowering scene. Some fan editors have done impressive work putting the two together. The father and mother reactions both make sense. Lara would be more emotionally understanding but they should both be there for a decision that big. I know people wanted to see the Brando stuff but Susannah York is underrated as Lara in SII.

I even found Reeves acting more natural and emotionally wrenching in the Lester scene where he initially returns to the Fortress to beg his fathers forgiveness. He seemed more humble. More layers to the performance.

[crazy_asian_man]

They didn't like the material. Donner -- 25 years later -- clearly didn't like the arctic police, he removed it from his version.

I know....it's truly sad. That, and the arrival of the villains in front of the fortress I thought were great moments that were shot in a way that really felt 'epic' for that time- Donner 25 years later definitely isn't the same Donner that shot STM/SII at the time.

Don't know if Baird would have kept it in 25 years later, too--- but, seems that a good number of fans prefer to see one or two of those scenes back in some form of alternative cut.