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Post by Chancellor Todd on Apr 13, 2012 16:57:14 GMT -5
Whatever you do, you need more background on the villains. In the Selutron clip posted above, a lot of time is wasted on irrelevant (to SII) stuff, and the first shot of the villains is just them floating through space in a weird two-dimensional glass thing. After a two-year gap for movie audiences in 1980, most people wouldn't have remembered those three extremely minor characters from the first film or how they got there.
Lester's version did a reasonably good job by introducing the villains pre-credits, then do a recap interspersed with credits to get us to the present day. Perhaps there is some way to have the last re-capped bit be the missles going into space, somehow adding emphasis to the audience that the launch is going to lead into what you're going to see next.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 13, 2012 17:56:25 GMT -5
Superman Returns should have had a pre-credits sequence where Superman finds out Lois is pregnant, and then he says, "This never happened to the other fella." Family Guy covered some of that. The other fella had the ultimate birth control: turning back time. |
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Post by Tristan D on Apr 13, 2012 18:49:43 GMT -5
Interesting. The best thing about his introduction is the echo of the 'This is no fantasy' line from STM, and then bringing back the scene where we see Lois first begin to suspect that Clark may be Superman. They're both quite nice ways of seguing into the film and help stop the beginning of SII(RDC) feeling rushed.
That said, the overall sequence is just too long with this added footage. Seeing the 'post-time-travel' action is a great piece for us as fans, but in the context of a film all this action seems a little longwinded (considering that very little of it is 'new'), so that the film actually wouldn't start until about 15 minutes in.
If this sequence is about reminding the audience of the plot so far then it doesn't do a very good job of explaining where Zod, Ursa and Non came from.
The curtains are a nice touch.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Apr 15, 2012 3:38:08 GMT -5
Not bad, but too long. Also need to cut the Lois Jimmy chatter from the end of it...absolutely redundant.
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Post by booshman on Apr 15, 2012 6:03:25 GMT -5
Not bad, but too long. Also need to cut the Lois Jimmy chatter from the end of it...absolutely redundant. With the lack of a clean centre channel their chatter has 2 music cues going on behind it too. Also when Supes is chasing the last rocket there's 2 cues. If this was building towards a fanedit I think it's less than the ideal way of doing it, but as it looks like Sel is going for a WB release, having the original elements this wouldn't be an issue. (Off topic: Does anyone know if it's possible to turn off the spell check feature? Or change it from US English to English?) |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 15, 2012 11:03:57 GMT -5
Almost every cut (including the Donner/Mank script) include something of the trial recap in the beginning..... but I would argue that it's really not necessary for everyone to 'get' who they are, and keep it somewhat of a mystery until Lex talks to Jorel (or Lara, depending on which alternate fan cut universe you're in  ) and gives up the goods on who the PZ criminals are. Then, the audience is pretty filled in. For all the bile I spew on Lester, his opening (despite a funky workaround Jorel--- Recast would have been my preference if you had to lose Brando) sequence/recap with flying credits was ingenious. But.... and this is been discussed elsewhere- since we got the trial in STM, if trying to sew SII back to back with STM, it seems like there's mainly a few choices for starting up: #1: Comic book recap (which Selutron tried, but fell flat- imo because there's no comic book images, moreso than the kid's voice--- I would not have minded the original comic book opening for SR either, that we saw fragments of) - #2: Go straight into the action- LOTR/TWO TOWERS style- presuming that the audience saw the first one anyways--- with NO real recap - with Supes hurling the missile into space and letting it explode (maybe moments of audio from the IRC, mentioning that the missile is about to hit Metropolis/New Jersey)--- then right to the credits recap/ DP jump or whatever the choice is. #3: Lester/Donnerish hybrid of the opening with trial recap, which most are/have gone for. The first one might be too much work for anyone, (plus the effectiveness is hard to say), the second one might start things off faster, the third one still has endless variations that still leave everyone (it seems) not 1000% sure about, either. To me, SII is always the never-solveable editing problem of the century..... I admire everyone's attempts to try to fix it and put up the highest quality possible- with experiments and ideas that are amazing at times, but wonder deep down if anyone can 'solve' it 100% to everyone's satisfaction. For sure, most everyone has come up with an improvement over the Thau's hack and slash cut.  |
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matt
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Post by matt on Apr 15, 2012 11:57:14 GMT -5
I'm sure he didn't use the trial recap because it is in the Fortress with Lex. Having Lois suspicion of Clark is Superman in the recap plays into SII storyline of her discovering his identity.
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 15, 2012 12:07:12 GMT -5
If STM and S2 were edited into one long movie, there would be no need for any recaps.
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EvilSupes
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Post by EvilSupes on Apr 16, 2012 15:16:08 GMT -5
Hmm works but I've seen better edits these days. In the beginning Selutron's work was distinct over other fanedits with the mastery of rotoscoping but I've now seen some truly marvellous stuff from other just as talented individuals that makes his work a little less interesting to me. Not to say that your work is bad Selutron, just it doesn't have quite the same impact as it once did over other fanedits!
I agree the sequence is a bit too long, but it very well done nonetheless.
Is there a reason for 480p youtube videos and not 1080p? I'm assuming that's to stop people downloading them in decent quality and using them.
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Post by Jimbo on Apr 16, 2012 15:19:56 GMT -5
Is there a reason for 480p youtube videos and not 1080p? No, it's because they only uploaded it at 480p, likely still using just the DVDs. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 16, 2012 15:52:40 GMT -5
Agreed. I mean, Sel MIGHT'VE used the blu-rays for S1 and S2 DC footage, but for the S2 theatrical, S3 and S4 shots he'd have had to use the standard dvds. I don't think Sel would re-do all of this over in HD because as EvilSupes pointed out, what he's done has lost it's wow factor over time with other edits/ideas. He'd have to up his game. But then again, he always said these videos was just to show what COULD be achieved, not how he would necessarily makes his fan edit look like. Who knows...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 16, 2012 18:10:53 GMT -5
Selutron has some really nice stuff, in the beginning there was more of a 'holy shite that's amazing with the rotoscoping & all', but I have to admit that Booshman's work I'm more impressed with right now. There's just too little information regarding Selutron to make me all that crazy about feeling like he's THE guy who should re-edit. With Thau, he had the disadvantage of us knowing what the IRC & theatrical versions looked like as a comparison..... and not enough details on why this/that changed... often for the worse. We had to guess and give a benefit of a doubt..... but with fan cutters using just what's existing, it's been shown that if this was Thau's best--- it just isn't/wasn't good enough. One thing that's a bit discouraging is finding out that there won't be a Spiderman 3.1 or with new deleted scenes to tie-in with the reboot...... if that's the case, I wonder if that reinforces the idea of nothing new for Donner's SII in terms of deleted scenes, extended scenes, or ANYTHING to tie into Supes' reboot as well. *Sigh*  If we only knew if there were someone AT WB with clout enthusiastic about a new SII cut to sell on dvd.... |
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Post by booshman on Apr 17, 2012 0:37:24 GMT -5
Is there a reason for 480p youtube videos and not 1080p? No, it's because they only uploaded it at 480p, likely still using just the DVDs. From the looks if the colour timing I think you're right. Selutron has some really nice stuff, in the beginning there was more of a 'holy shite that's amazing with the rotoscoping & all', but I have to admit that Booshman's work I'm more impressed with right now. Wow thanks cam, that's high praise indeed. Hopefully it will all come together into something that do the material justice. Really? You would think they'd jump at the chance to milk the cow a little more with the reboot coming out. Hopefully WB won't be as blind next year. |
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Post by Paul (ral) on Apr 17, 2012 8:27:42 GMT -5
The fact that Selutron seems to be editing his work again, tells me this project would be doomed anyway as another fan cut. What happens in 5 years after a theoretical release if he has another great idea?
I say let it go. Release an uber fan cut and let us draw a veil over the Reeve movies... appreciating what they were and accepting what they could have been.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 17, 2012 8:51:48 GMT -5
Because of the giant vacuum of information with WB and Seluron, I have this odd hunch that Sel senses it's a 'now or never' situation with MOS coming out.... similar to the timing with SR buying rights to Brando footage (I still feel that if it weren't for that, that WB would never feel it financially feasible enough to negotiate to get the Brando rights once and for all....thus, never a RDC of any sort).... if it ain't happening with THIS release, when will it ever be the right time, sort of thing. One thing seems pretty sure, though.... If they're expecting Spiderman (the original Raimi ones)-like grosses for MOS- like they were with SR..... (Or Avenger-size ones, even though we don't know HOW big that one will be) I dunno.... that's a big expectation.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 17, 2012 8:56:20 GMT -5
I'm pretty wowed with the stuff that you've come up with, many interesting (and different) choices than I would have thought of. I'm pretty excited to see how it all turns out at the end!
(Any 'new' rotoscope stuff planned for the Metro battle btw?)
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 17, 2012 10:56:27 GMT -5
I'd like to see a little more Metro Battle stuff with rotoscoping as background plates wouldn't be difficult. What would be difficult is finding material of the villains flying. CAM, you made good use of some of the S3 and S4 Reeve flying shots, like when he gets hit with the super missile. But with very little flying shots of the villains, I'm not sure I'd like to see Boosh re-use the same flying shots (not that he would anyway, lol). At the very least, it might be possible to utilize ALL the metro battle footage and not simply choose either thetrical or DC. Case in point, the shot of Supes punching Non in the face. Whether Boosh uses that as the reason the Empire State Building Spire falls, or the Ursa pole swing, I'd like that beat to be in there, even if it means using both. One thing I'd like to see re-inserted is "KIIIIIILL HIIIIIIM!!!" but Boosh has told me he's not sure about inserting SD material that's been HD-ified, and placed into HD footage. It would definitely stand out. Personally I don't mind it (as I've used Selutrons scenes in my cut, and they were 240p, lol) but I understand where he's coming from. Which of course leads back to your original wish CAM, which was simply getting the RIC remastered. Only problem is though, even if WB DOES re-visit S2 again (regardless of who's hands its put in), they're not gonna remaster ALL the deleted footage. We should be lucky those RIC scenes were put into widescreen for the DC dvd  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 17, 2012 12:17:23 GMT -5
DVDondemand would be the cheapest route for WB. heck....at this point, even if it were (egads) pan and scan IRC DVDondemand, I'm so desperate for better/more Donner footage, I'd take it...
*sigh*
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 17, 2012 12:47:32 GMT -5
DVDondemand would be the cheapest route for WB. heck....at this point, even if it were (egads) pan and scan IRC DVDondemand, I'm so desperate for better/more Donner footage, I'd take it...*sigh* Well, considering the guys over at capedwonder have gone frame by frame to remaster the KCOP of part 1, (as well as a ton of other stuff), maybe you can convince them to give the RIC the same treatment. Way I see it, the RIC is 146 minutes, unlike the KCOP which is 188. Also, with the amount of time and effort they've put into that project so far, they've learned so much and become so experienced in this area that I'd imagine giving the RIC wouldn't take nearly as long. It wouldn't take them only a month or 2, but it certainly wouldn't take years to do either, lol. Come to think of it, *I think* they might already be planning it. |
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Post by supereagle7 on Apr 17, 2012 17:03:32 GMT -5
this sequence is amazing, truly great work!! Completely understand what people are saying about the length but this would make a great intro..plus without the paris scene there is a lot of space without supers. To be honest the paris sequence isn't really that great, a lot of build up.
Love the opening with the thunderous introduction of the theatre curtains and hearing superman's dialogue. This is so much better than some fan edits, just wish selutron would release a complete film.
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Rod
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Post by Rod on Apr 17, 2012 17:33:47 GMT -5
I'm pretty wowed with the stuff that you've come up with, many interesting (and different) choices than I would have thought of. I'm pretty excited to see how it all turns out at the end! (Any 'new' rotoscope stuff planned for the Metro battle btw?) one heck of a good thing of booshman cut is the increase of action at the fortress, with some lester altered scenes. the donner cut suffered very much imo, which is something that i suppose will/would probably affect selutron fan cut also. before I decided give up permanently on rotoscoping, I had this idea to use the shot of Superman punching Non - at the fortress. you know, Non is flying towards Superman at the fortress (prior to the celofane thing scene). then Supes hits Non. (rotoscope) and then you have the shot of Non being thrown at the wall. every bit of more action counts! |
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Post by booshman on Apr 18, 2012 1:41:18 GMT -5
(Any 'new' rotoscope stuff planned for the Metro battle btw?) Nothing specific as yet. I think the editing will be in line with my last edit, but I'm open to suggestions for possible additions. Any ideas feel free to post them in my thread. |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 8, 2012 14:51:02 GMT -5
CW posted Sel's Lois DP jump. He's changed a few things around. CAM, watch closely. I get the impression that Sel may have heard or seen our contributions to this sequence.
And a new message from Sel:
"This was a clip where the limitations of working with pre-cut material were pretty daunting. I started this back in the day, but never really finished it in any meaningful way and thus, never gave it to Jim for CapedWonder.com. But I had another look at it (after a multi-year completely Superman-free break!) and sort of polished it up a bit using some ridiculous methods to extend shots and so forth. It still has a lot of issues, as I'm sure viewers will notice, but perhaps it illustrates, as hopefully the other clips do, that there is more to be squeezed out from this footage. Superman fans may recognize where the "He, he..."woman came from. Oh, and it is Chris Reeve's voice shouting "Lois!" at the end and no-one else's as I think it should be... Finally, a heartfelt thanks to all of your CapedWonder readers who took an interest in this stuff!
Selutron"
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matt
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Post by matt on May 8, 2012 16:30:33 GMT -5
He did a great job on that scene. I miss the music for the build up in the scene like the other edits like boosh and cam .
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Post by TylerDurden389 on May 8, 2012 20:56:57 GMT -5
He did a great job on that scene. I miss the music for the build up in the scene like the other edits like boosh and cam . I did that in my cut as well lol. It's amazing how well the music works in that scene. Dare I say it, but I think the music actually works better here than in the Niagara jump. |
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) and gives up the goods on who the PZ criminals are. Then, the audience is pretty filled in. 
