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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 12, 2012 21:13:29 GMT -5
Check it out:
The opening line "A sick fantasy" is a nice nod to Jor-el's first line in part 1. Another little symbolism to tie the father-son relationship if you ask me. The curtains returning is nice as well. Would it be too silly to ask that the recap parts are in black and white, then when the film gets to the "present time" and the curtains pull back, it fades into color (similar to the first film going from B&W to color)?
Personally, as glad as I am to finally see this, I have to say, there's so much going on in this recap that I can't keep up lol. Dare I say it, but Thau did it better. Though I still say the theatrical recap got it right.
The other parts Sel posted have been uploaded in higher quality, and there's even an extra second or 2 in each one. For example, when Zod throws the General's badge into the "water', we hear it *plop* this time.
The only thing that hasn't been posted in higher quality is the post-time-travel sequence, but since capedwonder posted 5 videos last week, and now 5 more today, I'd like to think that he's saving that sequence for last. Who knows, maybe a few new sequences will come with it.
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HOSNI
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Post by HOSNI on Apr 12, 2012 21:27:22 GMT -5
I think the presentation is good but it needs to be shorter, when you add to the post time travel sequence thats one heck of a long opening.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 12, 2012 21:35:31 GMT -5
I think the presentation is good but it needs to be shorter, when you add to the post time travel sequence thats one heck of a long opening. Yeah, agreed. The post time travel sequence alone is already 6 minutes. And this is all supposed to be BEFORE the credits. This is why when I made my fancut, I saved the post time travel for AFTER the credits. I made my recap almost the same as the theatrical, but end it with Supes flying away in anger. Then after the last credit (Donner's) we cut to the sequence. Works better IMO. |
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Post by Olly H 82 on Apr 12, 2012 21:39:55 GMT -5
i bloody loved it!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 12, 2012 23:23:28 GMT -5
Nice idea, but.... Way, way, way, way too long to start the film going.
In looking at this again, I get more and more of this gut feeling that as much as we revere Donner and Mank.... that they might NOT have addressed the time reversal ending as put into the end of STM.
Reason being?
Love Donner's films- but his movie endings at the time were not always all that great- even with the same main players behind the scenes.
The ending of "Assassins", "Radio Flyer", and "The Toy" in particular are just HORRIBLE. Donner's always said that his films will always have a predictable happy ending, (outside of "Omen") but- sometimes it came at a cost of some major movie credibility in the process.
Donner also came into the process with a bit of baggage already pre-built into it. Not that Donner didn't give ten thousand percent, but that I just am not certain he would have fixed the time reversal loophole.... just as he and Mank deliberately 'overlooked' how Supes/Lois got to the fortress in the first place, and how they returned in a car in the script---
If Donner and Mank came back, I just don't think they would have kept such tight continuity on that time reversal--- mainly because no matter how much one tries to wrap up something like that, it just seems like trying to fill that logic gap and trying to make it seem logical would just reveal other cracks from that same plot point.
Not knocking the effort, but in terms of trying to intuit (we'll never know for sure) what Donner & Mank would/wouldn't have done, this is just my guess at this point. I think it would have been skipped over, and I do think that the memory kiss suggested by Chris Reeve would have been used.....but planned a LOT better and shot in a far more interesting way, I would think, than the quickee Lester solution.
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 12, 2012 23:52:31 GMT -5
Where's this great ending of his?
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matt
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Post by matt on Apr 13, 2012 0:29:46 GMT -5
To edit his beginning down, he doesn't need to show Superman saving Jimmy twice or chasing the rocket again headed to Hackensack. Like BTTF 2 there are two Superman in the same time period. He only needs to have Superman stopping rocket from hitting the San Andres and throwing the rocket into space, and freeing villains. Like BTTF 2 when they recap the ending they add the shot of Biff seeing the DeLorean taking off.
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 13, 2012 0:58:46 GMT -5
Here's a question...
Why do we need ANY form of recap at the start of Superman 2? The Lester version, the Donner Cut and the various fan cuts all seem to want to recap STM.
What's wrong with just starting the movie?
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Post by booshman on Apr 13, 2012 1:17:38 GMT -5
Here's a question... Why do we need ANY form of recap at the start of Superman 2? The Lester version, the Donner Cut and the various fan cuts all seem to want to recap STM. What's wrong with just starting the movie? I think that if you're going to have the villains released by the rocket thrown at the end of 1, you need to show where that came from. Having said that I think the amount of stuff shown in this clip is a little much. I like the editing though, and the use of the curtain, but I think you just need to go from the rocket launch and Supes chasing it. If you need to know the ins and outs of why Superman is chasing it, then go and watch part one. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Apr 13, 2012 4:55:26 GMT -5
Did we really need to see the Kryptonite chain stuff again?
Lester's theatrical job is just fine.
In our DVD era, do we need a recap at all? LotR just starts from the new chapter. QoS continues where CR left off.
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Post by Olly H 82 on Apr 13, 2012 5:30:13 GMT -5
I have no problem with the recap.. He is trying to i suppose replicate what Donner would have done at the time. I miss movies with epic intros and recaps. Nowadays people have short attention spans and want the movie to just start. I like the old days of long intro's.
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Apr 13, 2012 7:27:24 GMT -5
If he can cut it down a little, it will be quite brilliant. What Sel is trying to accomplish is that it's Superman's actions that cause the phantom zone to explode. I really like that.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 13, 2012 8:32:20 GMT -5
According to capedwonder, Sel's old "post-time-travel" sequence has been dropped. So maybe this new one is his way of getting that bit of story in without us seeing the end of STM twice. Who knows. I'm hoping that in the coming weeks Sel will have more to share with us, as these 2 weeks of material has been a real treat.
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Post by Kamdan on Apr 13, 2012 9:58:10 GMT -5
"This video has been removed by the user."
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Apr 13, 2012 11:04:50 GMT -5
I miss movies with epic intros and recaps. Nowadays people have short attention spans and want the movie to just start. I like the old days of long intro's. True, but this is a 30 year old movie, and this cut for those who've seen it a billion times already. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 13, 2012 11:15:48 GMT -5
A recap really works best when it ties strongly into the main story of the sequel. The first part of Lesters SII recap works great because its about the Phantom Zoners and that ties into the main threat in the film. There is a kind of emotional/plot connection made. The other stuff didn't seem as necessary to me. The rest of the credits could have been normal credits.
Thats why the recap/flashback that starts off Star Trek III works brilliantly IMO. Recapping all of ST II would have been pointless since most of it had no bearing on ST III. Spocks death and funeral from II tied directly into Star Trek III. You didn't need the movie going over all that stuff with Khan and the Reliant again. That would have been useless extra fat. Transitioning into the next film should be as streamlined as possible.
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 13, 2012 11:51:53 GMT -5
Full opening sequence uploaded (which is why yesterday's was taken down).
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Apr 13, 2012 14:10:48 GMT -5
I think it's excellent but a little too long. It doesn't need the whole 'post time reversal' bit though. End it on the shot of earth and cut to Superman II, whatever cut...
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Post by Costa del Lex on Apr 13, 2012 15:17:48 GMT -5
I think it's excellent but a little too long. It doesn't need the whole 'post time reversal' bit though. End it on the shot of earth and cut to Superman II, whatever cut... Yeah, it's far too long for an opening re-cap, but he did an excellent job. I never thought I'd say this years ago when we were all clamoring for a Donner Cut, but I much prefer the Paris sequence as the reason the villians are freed. It's a great little sequence that almost plays like a Bond opening in that it's a mini-mission that vaguely plays into the overall plot of the film. I think Paris needs to be in any definitive cut of Superman II simply based on how well it's done. |
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Apr 13, 2012 15:41:04 GMT -5
While I was editing the two twos (!!!) I opened with the Paris Bomb plot, then to Perry White in the DP 'Lex Luthor scheme bombs, Superman saves nation'. It was almost like LL had a hand in the Paris bomb scenario, if you see what I mean.
The plot is good but a little boring, what's worse is that it's written into the script: ''This is the boring bit''. Your not kidding there!
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 13, 2012 16:05:48 GMT -5
I think it's excellent but a little too long. It doesn't need the whole 'post time reversal' bit though. End it on the shot of earth and cut to Superman II, whatever cut... Yeah, it's far too long for an opening re-cap, but he did an excellent job. I never thought I'd say this years ago when we were all clamoring for a Donner Cut, but I much prefer the Paris sequence as the reason the villians are freed. It's a great little sequence that almost plays like a Bond opening in that it's a mini-mission that vaguely plays into the overall plot of the film. I think Paris needs to be in any definitive cut of Superman II simply based on how well it's done. I also think the Paris thing is better than the missile stuff. Your comment about a Bond opening made me wonder about something: would it work nicely as a pre-credits scene? i.e., have the Paris scene, villains freed, then S2 credits and then go back to the movie? |
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Post by TylerDurden389 on Apr 13, 2012 16:12:52 GMT -5
Yeah, it's far too long for an opening re-cap, but he did an excellent job. I never thought I'd say this years ago when we were all clamoring for a Donner Cut, but I much prefer the Paris sequence as the reason the villians are freed. It's a great little sequence that almost plays like a Bond opening in that it's a mini-mission that vaguely plays into the overall plot of the film. I think Paris needs to be in any definitive cut of Superman II simply based on how well it's done. Hmm, that gives me an idea. What if, instead of recapping the villains trial, then recapping the entire first film during the credits like the theatrical does: We open with a much shorter and condensed version of the Paris sequence (say, 5 minutes or less), and after the villains are freed, the shot of them flying towards the moon leads into the opening credits (similar to how the Donner Cut does it)? This way, you'd not only keep the Paris scene, the hydrogen bomb plot point (and be done with the time reversal AND the missiles altogether) but you'd also have a recap-free opening credits sequence. I like this idea because it essentially gives us the same thing Selutron is pushing for (that being, a "Superfeats" sequence early into the film) and will finally silence those of you who are against the time travel stuff. Veris, since you're keeping the Paris sequence in your cut, why not give it a go? |
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Post by Costa del Lex on Apr 13, 2012 16:37:18 GMT -5
Back when I was contemplating making my own Superman II edit, I always envisioned the Paris stuff as a pre-credits sequence. In fact, way back when before the Donner Cut became a reality, I even suggested moving it to Superman III as it's pre-credits sequence since I knew any Donner Cut would not include it. Now though, I think it would be perfect as the pre-credits sequence to any fan edit for II. The missile thing sounded better on paper, but it just never worked for me visually and it's sort of lame. The bomb from the elevator just works so much better.
I don't know about cutting it down to 5 minutes... but maybe slightly tighter (and of course there would be no shot of the concord). The shot of them flying towards the moon would be a natural starting point for the opening credits. I'd keep the credits similar to the theatrical, perhaps with better lettering, but keeping the STM flashbacks. I like the flashbacks and maybe I'd insert some new scenes in the flashbacks as well. The main film would then open with Clark crossing the street heading into the Daily Planet.
I'd love to do a hybrid HD version, but I hate the coloring on the Donner Cut. The theatrical is near perfect and the two simply don't match. I think a lot of color correction would be needed on the Donner Cut in order for them to blend together.
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Knight
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Post by Knight on Apr 13, 2012 16:39:01 GMT -5
''I also think the Paris thing is better than the missile stuff.
Your comment about a Bond opening made me wonder about something: would it work nicely as a pre-credits scene? i.e., have the Paris scene, villains freed, then S2 credits and then go back to the movie?''
That's an excellent idea you have there, ATP. Very interesting!
Have the three approach the moon and cue green crystal credits...
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atp
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Post by atp on Apr 13, 2012 16:53:20 GMT -5
Superman Returns should have had a pre-credits sequence where Superman finds out Lois is pregnant, and then he says, "This never happened to the other fella."
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