Post by MAVERICK on Aug 29, 2008 3:13:21 GMT -5
After Ollie posted info on his cut, I got a couple more requests for my cut & I was asked to post the info about what its all about, so, copied from the old board, here goes:
First, this cut would not have been possible without Jimbo, Veris, & litemkr.
Jimbo did the actual cutting under my direction.
Veris provided effects.
Lite provided a new sound mix for the Houston diner & also provided the Boy on the horse moment.
My cut:
Its like this: If Donner HAD been able to finish Superman II the way he originally intended (Lois Dies, Kryptonians ruin the planet) then I would totally love the ending of the Donner cut, because then turning back time would make MUCH more sense than it does in STM, where he does it for a woman hes never even kissed. It would have been so much better in SII as originally envisioned with Lois (now essentially his wife) dead, & the world so badly damaged, that even Superman couldnt fix some things. But, as we know, that never happened. So the decision becomes, where does turning back time make more sense as filmed? For me, it has to be STM. First because at least Lois dies in STM. Second, nothing happens in SII that he cant just fix without turning back time. Lois doesnt die, & damage from the Villains is sparse at best.
As far as Superman Returns goes, its just basically that I want Lois to forget his secret, & to be pregnant & for the Fortress to remain intact.
Also, theres some Lester stuff that I really like, that deserves to be showcased. But this is primarily Donner.
Heres a brief summary of changes, feel free to ask for more detail.
Although there are some little surprises that I wanna keep that way for viewers who care to view it.
Red WB logo. As was theatrically proper.
Reeve Dedication.
Start with Donner Cut.
First change the Brando lines when we see baby Kal in the ship. I hate that crap about the colored blankets & how they assure his strength. Its taken us 75 years to get it through the heads of the lay people that Superman's cape does not make him fly. We dont need those dumb Brando lines encouraging them.
I used Lesters Phantom Zone Explosion, as I dont like that splitting into 3 crap. It just makes no sense & Lester's just looks cooler.
Got rid of the Lex's Lair recap. Useless & horribly edited. If you wanna see that, watch STM.
Got rid of Reeve Double line "Lois what have you done". He works fine as long as he doesnt talk.
I used the begining of the prison guards "Lights out" scene, but when he looks back & notices Lex's light still on I used the Deleted Car Escape scene. Started the shot right when Otis sparks the Battery. In other words, when it switches from the Guard, we should be startled by the sparks.
I added some VERY fitting score to that deleted scenen as well.
Used some really good music for the scene, & added a peel out sound for the car & a siren from the prison tower.
Used Lesters Honeymoon Hotel scene in its entirety.
Got rid of all of the hot air balloon crap. No lex holding a radio boom box thats supposed to track Superman. The "Black Box" is cooler if spoken of but never seen.
Got rid of the silly dialog from Lex & Tess outside the fortress.
Got rid of all the "Bathroom" humor from the scene. No flush either.
Got rid of Lex saying that the Villains will "need a contact on earth". Why the heck would he assume they are comming to earth?Now the scene ends as Lex says "Totally dedicated to Corruption Violence & Evil", & then raises an evil eyebrow, then it cuts straight to the villains landing on earth, as if to say to the audience: "If Lex only knew". No "Strange surface" line from Zod. He's not an idiot.
Got rid of all Orange Juice references.
Put in Lesters scene of Supes changing back behind the hotdog stand.
I come in on the blank bullets scene as such:
It starts just as Lois says "WHY, in all the places in all the..... etc..." as if the conversation was already going on.
This works for several reasons:
1. Its a kickass way to start the scene.
2. You dont see the shakey set wall.
3. It loses all the embarassing dialog from the start of the scene. As neither had found their characters yet. Clark is acting bitchy & annoyed. Lois seems high as heck. But after the "Why" line, all seems normal.
4. After the "Why" line, it never switches back & forth between Clark hairstyles anymore.
One reason I hated losing the Pink Bear scene, was the great dialog, but I like the concept of blank bullets better.
So, I compromised. I used parts of the Pink Bear Dialog as a voice over during their flight to the fortress.
This accomplishes 2 things:
1. It comes off as if we are hearing the continuing conversation from Blank Bullets played over the flight.
2. It now doesnt seem so rushed. (Hey you shot me, wanna go to my Ice Palace now?")
I used the new & dramatically improved sound & music from litemakers version of the Villains in Idaho scene.
Now the disco music seems to be faintly heard on a radio instead of it seeming like the soundtrak, & making what should be a terrifying moment, seem campy. The new dramatic music really amps up the tension. The exploding kid on the horse is back in as well, thanks to lite.
All the goofyness with Dwayne has been trimmed.
From that point on, the cutting back & forth between the Fortress & Houston has been dramatically restructured.
I think you'll find that scenes that went on too long seem just right now that they have been placed differently. Nothing has been removed. Just shuffled around to create more tension.
I split the scene where Superman talks with Lois about the green Crystal & then goes to get groceries in half.
I flet the groceries bit killed the weight of him talking about his heratige. So, the groceries bit comes later.
I dont show Lois leaving the Crystal.
Also, after the aide asks the President "Wheres Superman?", it normally cuts back outside to Non catching that rocket. Now, it cuts to the fortress & shows you that Superman is living it up while all this crap is going down. Then shocks you as it cuts back to Non catching the rocket.
I used Rushmore AND Washington monument. Gives a feel of more destruction. In my Rushmore, you dont see them do the goofy thing with their heat vision. You dont see how they defaced it, just that they did. Also both scenes need a reaction shot from the White House, but only one was filmed so, I used the same one twice, but with different sound the second time.
I changed the shots of the depowering chamber appearing out of thin air. The shot is still there, but the chamber is already formed.
At the White House I got rid of the shot where Non is hypnotized by the perpetual balls & just started the scene with Ursa playing with Planetary model.
I used Lester's Superman returning to the planet & "Care to step outside". No wimpy freedom of the press crap.
The rest of the metropolis battle is Donner, except that I cut out even more goofyness (Umberella guy, red glitter vest guy). Also added a couple cool Lester destruction shots back in.
Got rid of the shot where it looks like Supes is laughing when he says "No, dont do it, the people!"
Added back in the scene where Zod says "Come, the 3 of us will crush....." & Ursa says "let us take his favorite!"
When Supermqan steps into the depowering chamber, I got rid of the shots of the double & replaced it with the Lester shots of Reeve in the chamber. The reasons are 2:
1. Its not the I dislike the double, I think hes fine. But hey, more Chris Reeve is more Chris Reeve.
2. It makes sense. That chamber as filmed by Donner, appears to just be Horseshoe shaped with no door. So, at the end with Zod & co, what is supposed to be protecting Supes? Well, this way, it looks as if Supes rigged himself up a lil protective door inside the depowering chamber, that wasnt there before, & its protecting him from the rays this time around.
Used Lesters scene of Superman grabbing Zods belt after he crushes Zods hand. Its just so Machismo. Thanks Veris & Jimbo
I used Parts of the Arctic Police taking away the villains, cause I think its important to see that Supes doesnt kill them.
Ive recut it & shifted parts around though.
In my version, Superman does not destroy the Fortress. When he flies over to that lil island with lois & turns around to look at it (When he destroys it in the Donner Cut), in my version he looks ongingly at the fortress & hears the ghostly voice of his father say "My Son", & then it cuts back to Chris as he looks sadly at the ground & then turns to Lois.
I dont use the turning back time.
He erases her memory with the kiss, but when he does, we actually see it happening. Similar to the way Veris handled the same scene. We see washed out flashbacks in reverse order. However, there uis no Lueene in my scene, after Clard finishes the Kiss & we see Lois wavering in a dizzy state, I then inserted the shot of Clark where he was looking back into the door at Lois & Lueene. It now appears as if he kissed her, left her Dizze, looked bak to check on her & left.
It now cuts back to Donners next day at the Planet (Minus Perry looking confused) & everything is back to normal & Lois remembers nothing.
I put in the deleted scene of Jimmys new camers. I think its important to see why clark was reminded to beat up Rocky.
Superman properly carries the Flag back to the White houe, only this time, Superman just might salute the President before flying into outer space & over the credits.
But stick around. After the credits, there is a lil surprise that takes us directly into Superman Returns.
Thats a really rough outline. I didnt wanna bog it down with detail, & I'll answer any questions that I didnt answer above.
Now, a warning, theres a few things that, even though they are as good as they can possibly be, with the equipment we have, they still arent perfect, & it couldnt be helped.
I'll get them out of the way right now:
1. The transition from Donners Phantom Zone Explosion to Lesters Phantom Zone Explosion is slightly rough.
2. I cut out the crappy humor when Lex & Tes are standing outside the fortress & climbing into it. The transition from outside the fortress to inside the fortress is a lil abrupt.
3. Theres a wierd lil glitch in the sound after Jorel speaks the line "After a long & terrible battle. We have no idea why. It happeneed every time we ripped it from the original disc. It isnt bad though.
Thats all I can think of at the moment.
Anyway, thats the info on my cut. Ive sent out about 25 so far.
There were some nice reviews of my cut by members of our board, I'll have to dig them out & post them in this thread.
First, this cut would not have been possible without Jimbo, Veris, & litemkr.
Jimbo did the actual cutting under my direction.
Veris provided effects.
Lite provided a new sound mix for the Houston diner & also provided the Boy on the horse moment.
My cut:
Its like this: If Donner HAD been able to finish Superman II the way he originally intended (Lois Dies, Kryptonians ruin the planet) then I would totally love the ending of the Donner cut, because then turning back time would make MUCH more sense than it does in STM, where he does it for a woman hes never even kissed. It would have been so much better in SII as originally envisioned with Lois (now essentially his wife) dead, & the world so badly damaged, that even Superman couldnt fix some things. But, as we know, that never happened. So the decision becomes, where does turning back time make more sense as filmed? For me, it has to be STM. First because at least Lois dies in STM. Second, nothing happens in SII that he cant just fix without turning back time. Lois doesnt die, & damage from the Villains is sparse at best.
As far as Superman Returns goes, its just basically that I want Lois to forget his secret, & to be pregnant & for the Fortress to remain intact.
Also, theres some Lester stuff that I really like, that deserves to be showcased. But this is primarily Donner.
Heres a brief summary of changes, feel free to ask for more detail.
Although there are some little surprises that I wanna keep that way for viewers who care to view it.
Red WB logo. As was theatrically proper.
Reeve Dedication.
Start with Donner Cut.
First change the Brando lines when we see baby Kal in the ship. I hate that crap about the colored blankets & how they assure his strength. Its taken us 75 years to get it through the heads of the lay people that Superman's cape does not make him fly. We dont need those dumb Brando lines encouraging them.
I used Lesters Phantom Zone Explosion, as I dont like that splitting into 3 crap. It just makes no sense & Lester's just looks cooler.
Got rid of the Lex's Lair recap. Useless & horribly edited. If you wanna see that, watch STM.
Got rid of Reeve Double line "Lois what have you done". He works fine as long as he doesnt talk.
I used the begining of the prison guards "Lights out" scene, but when he looks back & notices Lex's light still on I used the Deleted Car Escape scene. Started the shot right when Otis sparks the Battery. In other words, when it switches from the Guard, we should be startled by the sparks.
I added some VERY fitting score to that deleted scenen as well.
Used some really good music for the scene, & added a peel out sound for the car & a siren from the prison tower.
Used Lesters Honeymoon Hotel scene in its entirety.
Got rid of all of the hot air balloon crap. No lex holding a radio boom box thats supposed to track Superman. The "Black Box" is cooler if spoken of but never seen.
Got rid of the silly dialog from Lex & Tess outside the fortress.
Got rid of all the "Bathroom" humor from the scene. No flush either.
Got rid of Lex saying that the Villains will "need a contact on earth". Why the heck would he assume they are comming to earth?Now the scene ends as Lex says "Totally dedicated to Corruption Violence & Evil", & then raises an evil eyebrow, then it cuts straight to the villains landing on earth, as if to say to the audience: "If Lex only knew". No "Strange surface" line from Zod. He's not an idiot.
Got rid of all Orange Juice references.
Put in Lesters scene of Supes changing back behind the hotdog stand.
I come in on the blank bullets scene as such:
It starts just as Lois says "WHY, in all the places in all the..... etc..." as if the conversation was already going on.
This works for several reasons:
1. Its a kickass way to start the scene.
2. You dont see the shakey set wall.
3. It loses all the embarassing dialog from the start of the scene. As neither had found their characters yet. Clark is acting bitchy & annoyed. Lois seems high as heck. But after the "Why" line, all seems normal.
4. After the "Why" line, it never switches back & forth between Clark hairstyles anymore.
One reason I hated losing the Pink Bear scene, was the great dialog, but I like the concept of blank bullets better.
So, I compromised. I used parts of the Pink Bear Dialog as a voice over during their flight to the fortress.
This accomplishes 2 things:
1. It comes off as if we are hearing the continuing conversation from Blank Bullets played over the flight.
2. It now doesnt seem so rushed. (Hey you shot me, wanna go to my Ice Palace now?")
I used the new & dramatically improved sound & music from litemakers version of the Villains in Idaho scene.
Now the disco music seems to be faintly heard on a radio instead of it seeming like the soundtrak, & making what should be a terrifying moment, seem campy. The new dramatic music really amps up the tension. The exploding kid on the horse is back in as well, thanks to lite.
All the goofyness with Dwayne has been trimmed.
From that point on, the cutting back & forth between the Fortress & Houston has been dramatically restructured.
I think you'll find that scenes that went on too long seem just right now that they have been placed differently. Nothing has been removed. Just shuffled around to create more tension.
I split the scene where Superman talks with Lois about the green Crystal & then goes to get groceries in half.
I flet the groceries bit killed the weight of him talking about his heratige. So, the groceries bit comes later.
I dont show Lois leaving the Crystal.
Also, after the aide asks the President "Wheres Superman?", it normally cuts back outside to Non catching that rocket. Now, it cuts to the fortress & shows you that Superman is living it up while all this crap is going down. Then shocks you as it cuts back to Non catching the rocket.
I used Rushmore AND Washington monument. Gives a feel of more destruction. In my Rushmore, you dont see them do the goofy thing with their heat vision. You dont see how they defaced it, just that they did. Also both scenes need a reaction shot from the White House, but only one was filmed so, I used the same one twice, but with different sound the second time.
I changed the shots of the depowering chamber appearing out of thin air. The shot is still there, but the chamber is already formed.
At the White House I got rid of the shot where Non is hypnotized by the perpetual balls & just started the scene with Ursa playing with Planetary model.
I used Lester's Superman returning to the planet & "Care to step outside". No wimpy freedom of the press crap.
The rest of the metropolis battle is Donner, except that I cut out even more goofyness (Umberella guy, red glitter vest guy). Also added a couple cool Lester destruction shots back in.
Got rid of the shot where it looks like Supes is laughing when he says "No, dont do it, the people!"
Added back in the scene where Zod says "Come, the 3 of us will crush....." & Ursa says "let us take his favorite!"
When Supermqan steps into the depowering chamber, I got rid of the shots of the double & replaced it with the Lester shots of Reeve in the chamber. The reasons are 2:
1. Its not the I dislike the double, I think hes fine. But hey, more Chris Reeve is more Chris Reeve.
2. It makes sense. That chamber as filmed by Donner, appears to just be Horseshoe shaped with no door. So, at the end with Zod & co, what is supposed to be protecting Supes? Well, this way, it looks as if Supes rigged himself up a lil protective door inside the depowering chamber, that wasnt there before, & its protecting him from the rays this time around.
Used Lesters scene of Superman grabbing Zods belt after he crushes Zods hand. Its just so Machismo. Thanks Veris & Jimbo
I used Parts of the Arctic Police taking away the villains, cause I think its important to see that Supes doesnt kill them.
Ive recut it & shifted parts around though.
In my version, Superman does not destroy the Fortress. When he flies over to that lil island with lois & turns around to look at it (When he destroys it in the Donner Cut), in my version he looks ongingly at the fortress & hears the ghostly voice of his father say "My Son", & then it cuts back to Chris as he looks sadly at the ground & then turns to Lois.
I dont use the turning back time.
He erases her memory with the kiss, but when he does, we actually see it happening. Similar to the way Veris handled the same scene. We see washed out flashbacks in reverse order. However, there uis no Lueene in my scene, after Clard finishes the Kiss & we see Lois wavering in a dizzy state, I then inserted the shot of Clark where he was looking back into the door at Lois & Lueene. It now appears as if he kissed her, left her Dizze, looked bak to check on her & left.
It now cuts back to Donners next day at the Planet (Minus Perry looking confused) & everything is back to normal & Lois remembers nothing.
I put in the deleted scene of Jimmys new camers. I think its important to see why clark was reminded to beat up Rocky.
Superman properly carries the Flag back to the White houe, only this time, Superman just might salute the President before flying into outer space & over the credits.
But stick around. After the credits, there is a lil surprise that takes us directly into Superman Returns.
Thats a really rough outline. I didnt wanna bog it down with detail, & I'll answer any questions that I didnt answer above.
Now, a warning, theres a few things that, even though they are as good as they can possibly be, with the equipment we have, they still arent perfect, & it couldnt be helped.
I'll get them out of the way right now:
1. The transition from Donners Phantom Zone Explosion to Lesters Phantom Zone Explosion is slightly rough.
2. I cut out the crappy humor when Lex & Tes are standing outside the fortress & climbing into it. The transition from outside the fortress to inside the fortress is a lil abrupt.
3. Theres a wierd lil glitch in the sound after Jorel speaks the line "After a long & terrible battle. We have no idea why. It happeneed every time we ripped it from the original disc. It isnt bad though.
Thats all I can think of at the moment.
Anyway, thats the info on my cut. Ive sent out about 25 so far.
There were some nice reviews of my cut by members of our board, I'll have to dig them out & post them in this thread.
