Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 17:21:51 GMT -5
Would it have made a difference if they DID show the family dead, thereby giving Superman immediate reason to kill Zod so he doesn't murder anyone else?
And am I literally the ONLY one here who just absolutely fucking loves Jonathan's death scene? First time I saw it, my jaw dropped. Second time, my eyes misted up. Third time, I saw my father up there and began to weep. It just works for me, so so much. I can't believe I'm the only one. Ah well.
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Post by fuddman on Jun 20, 2013 17:27:45 GMT -5
Would it have made a difference if they DID show the family dead, thereby giving Superman immediate reason to kill Zod so he doesn't murder anyone else? And am I literally the ONLY one here who just absolutely fucking loves Jonathan's death scene? First time I saw it, my jaw dropped. Second time, my eyes misted up. Third time, I saw my father up there and began to weep. It just works for me, so so much. I can't believe I'm the only one. Ah well. I loved Jonathan's death too, thought it made sense for him to do that. Loved the film as a whole too. And I love the old films. |
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Keith
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Post by Keith on Jun 20, 2013 18:13:17 GMT -5
I thought Jonathan's death scene was great!
I think it does make a difference if Zod did kill the family. Zod killed those innocent people outright.. The other people that died during the battle were casualties of war. After Zod killed the family Superman knew there was no other option, he had to end it there and now. To me it makes more sense.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 20, 2013 18:28:16 GMT -5
Veris, great to see you are alive and well, sir!
This was a killer in Watchmen, too... also directed by Snyder. Part of it may be the pacing of the performance--
part of it may be the script. For example, Jonathan goes to the truck and rather than taking it slow with his son, he goes from one topic to the other rather fast, as if Costner was told that the sun was going down and they had to finish the scene.... and there's many more scenes with great actors that feel the same way.
Would Jonathan give his son a few seconds to digest seeing the spaceship or just dive into telling him that he's an alien from another planet and is the answer to the universe's question? According to the performance/editing, it's better to just dive in.... fast, to meet the film's running time.
Also, there's a lot of information being told to us, rather than shown. A closeup of Superman coming close to Zod and being enraged when he sees his mom being strangled would have conveyed a lot more than Superman saying how mad he was at Zod for attacking his mom while plowing through the cornfields. Didn't need that line.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 20, 2013 18:56:37 GMT -5
Goyer can be awful with dialogue. I remember some of the Bruce and Rachel stuff from Batman Begins being really stiff and awkward.
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verisimilitude
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Superman II: The Verisimilitude Cut...You'll Still Believe
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Post by verisimilitude on Jun 20, 2013 19:00:56 GMT -5
Nice to see you too, CAM. I'm glad you also noticed what I'm talking about. The exposition by way of explanation was relied on a bit too much. You reminded me that they also did it toward the end with Zod being inside Kal-El's consciousness and so forth. That whole idea didn't play credibly to me or my wife. It was one of the first things she mentioned after we left the theatre.
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jun 20, 2013 19:07:57 GMT -5
I still don't understand the whole atmosphere/sunlight powers thing.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 20, 2013 19:09:41 GMT -5
Ah so that's what you meant the other day. Me either. Not on the ship anyway. Did you see it again?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 19:33:28 GMT -5
I still don't understand the whole atmosphere/sunlight powers thing. I think Jor-El said something about Earth's sun being younger and brighter and his cells drink in its radiation which strengthens his body and enhances his senses, also something about earth's atmosphere not being as harsh as Krypton's and more nourishing. I guess it's supposed to be a combination of both of these things. |
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jun 20, 2013 19:50:32 GMT -5
Ah so that's what you meant the other day. Me either. Not on the ship anyway. Did you see it again? Saw it twice last week - it's just been mulling around in my head since though and I can't seem to resolve it. OK, so Superman loses his powers once inside the ship due to the atmosphere. So the atmosphere is kind of like Kryptonite in a sense. I can explain this as: Kal struggled as a child to breath. Since he doesn't need oxygen underwater or in space when we can assume it wasn't our air that was the problem - it was the lack of Kryptonian air that was hurting him, and exposure to sunlight was strengthening his body so he didn't need to breath. Like Kryptonite, the Kryptonian air removed the effects that our sun had on Superman's cells - thus removing his powers. Fair enough. Only problem with that is - Zod and co. have super speed and strength (something Superman doesn't have on the ship) while wearing breather masks that provide Kryptonian air. We can also assume their suits block our suns rays since Zod gets "everything at once" without his mask - or do their powers come from our air? No they can't since Superman lost his on the ship and they wear breather masks.................. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 19:56:30 GMT -5
The most important thing is I figured out where I had seen Jenny Olsen (or whatever the fuck her name is) before.  |
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Post by Paul (ral) on Jun 20, 2013 20:10:14 GMT -5
Station!
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jun 20, 2013 20:36:58 GMT -5
The logic behind the sun's radiation and the atmosphere is a bit hazy. The reason why it's hazy is because of when Superman is in the ship, but as I understand, he's only temporarily disabled as he will adapt to the atmosphere in time and regain his powers and senses. My guess is that when Zod and company are in the suits on Earth, their senses can't be explored beyond their artificial atmosphere, but their strength, speed, and leaping ability comes from the Earth's weak gravity.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 20, 2013 21:02:05 GMT -5
After a second viewing, I was actually fine if it was going to be dark and joyless (expected it with Goyer/Snyder's resume) .....but not if I didn't buy enough of the performances through bad editing or creative choices. I was even ok attributing (or trying to) Kal's destruction of life and property as him 'in the heat of the moment' or truly being oblivious to it, because of the sensory overload on him.... but even with that, even if I was fine with all of the script, it's that it doesn't quite sell it's own goods as well as it could... much like TDKR, it's just too choppy in its transitions. I still think, though, that the 3-hour cut might be a lot better...(who knows what these trims are from? Reaction shot of Supes to his surroundings during the Metro fight? We don't know- and....we'll never see it.  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jun 20, 2013 21:04:07 GMT -5
@ veris-
GREAT to have you back-
(Now if we could find whatever rock legsy hiding under...)
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 20, 2013 21:26:34 GMT -5
The most important thing is I figured out where I had seen Jenny Olsen (or whatever the fuck her name is) before. Hahaha! Priceless. Station! I swear that movie is a case of the sequel being better than the original. Watched them both a few months ago and loved them but Bogus Journey is even better. Jenny just seemed to serve no purpose other than to get trapped later so we could feel tension. But I didn't give much of a damn about her because she was a glorified extra. Instead of the back and forth on Jimmy getting his jimmy cut off they should have just made her Cat Grant. It would have at least been a nice shout out to he comics. The Jenny being trapped moment wasn't tense at all. It was obvious she wouldn't die. If anything those scenes did more to flesh out who PERRY was as a man than anything else. To be fair maybe that was the point? I don't know. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 21:27:51 GMT -5
Goyer can be awful with dialogue. I remember some of the Bruce and Rachel stuff from Batman Begins being really stiff and awkward. Oh my God that scene in the car when she talks him to see Falcone is brutal. Holmes isn't the kind of actress to make exposition sound anywhere natural, either. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 21:29:09 GMT -5
The most important thing is I figured out where I had seen Jenny Olsen (or whatever the fuck her name is) before. Wow, Lomard must be desperate for poon. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 20, 2013 21:31:05 GMT -5
Goyer can be awful with dialogue. I remember some of the Bruce and Rachel stuff from Batman Begins being really stiff and awkward. Oh my God that scene in the car when she talks him to see Falcone is brutal. Holmes isn't the kind of actress to make exposition sound anywhere natural, either. Don't watch the tv movie Nick Fury Agent of Shield. Don't do it. Your ears will hurt. I thought it was fun for its day but the dialogue is so bad. Another gem from Goyer. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 21:50:18 GMT -5
Yesterday, I watched "Superman/Batman: Apocalypse" and "All-Star Superman." They were violent as heck. Death and destruction everywhere. In All-Star, Superman allows Parasite to murder dozens of people so he doesn't blow his Clark cover in front of Lex. Didn't phase him a bit.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 20, 2013 22:20:27 GMT -5
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jun 20, 2013 22:30:06 GMT -5
Aside-
Watching season 1 of george reeves superman.
2nd ep- a guy tries to stab superman, superman is uninjured, turns and watches the assailant fall off the cliff. To his bloody broken bone guts asploded death.
Then he went to check on jimmy.
Just sayin...
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Post by ChrisM on Jun 20, 2013 22:55:19 GMT -5
Tentacles, codex, and singularity.
Those things should not be in a Superman movie if you're trying to ground it in ANY kind of reality.
I truly had no idea WTF was going on with that.
Goyer needed a guy like Manky to bring a dose of objectivity to the script. I'm just surprised that things like the dragonfly flight were allowed to remain in the final cut when they served no clear purpose.
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Jun 20, 2013 23:04:09 GMT -5
I'm just surprised that things like the dragonfly flight were allowed to remain in the final cut when they served no clear purpose. I honestly think the only thing WB heard from fans in 2006 was "more action". |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jun 20, 2013 23:39:02 GMT -5
Tentacles, codex, and singularity. Those things should not be in a Superman movie if you're trying to ground it in ANY kind of reality. I truly had no idea WTF was going on with that. Goyer needed a guy like Manky to bring a dose of objectivity to the script. I'm just surprised that things like the dragonfly flight were allowed to remain in the final cut when they served no clear purpose. Baloney. If you had a depth of knowledge on SUPERMAN mythology, not just " I saw superman the move when I was a kid and some eps of smallville" you see that there is VERY LITTLE in man of steel that does not have a clear and apparant precedent in the 75 year history of superman. From kryptons exotic animal life, to battle suits, to genetic engineering, to caste society, to civil wars, its all been there. IN the comics. In the lore. Waiting to be depicted. And here it is. |
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