Man of Steel - *Spoilers*

[Jor-L5150]

OH it WILL be "controversial".

[Jor-L5150]

For those that missed the article, Wal-Mart rewarded those that pre-order blu-ray copies of Man of Steel with a first look at the tie-in prequel comic book written by the film's screenwriter David S. Goyer. But often times, these comic books don't really amount to much and are really nothing more than a one-time cash-grab. But a recent interview with producer Deborah Snyder seems to indicate that's not the case with the Man of Steel's tie-in comic book. When asked about Martian Manhunter rumors, Snyder merely laughed but when pressed about Supergirl, her reaction was entirely different. "...the one thing if you look closely when Henry’s going through the Fortress of Solitude there’s an empty… you know all the bodies… the pods? There’s an empty pod. I’m not going to say what, or if, it means anything but there is an empty pod there," said Snyder. If you've read the Man of Steel tie-in comic book you not only have a good idea of who that pod belongs to but you also know how it got there. If you want to read those spoilers, CLICK HERE. When Snyder was pressed to elaborate on her answer, she didn't offer up much more, "No. [Laughs] I’m not going to say anything but, it’s a thing. It’s a thing. That’s one Easter Egg that, I don’t know. Again, it might not mean anything, [but] it might mean something…"

Moving towards more speculative matters, Canadian songwriter Allison Crowe has a mystery role in Man of Steel that amounted to only one day on set but the exact nature of what she filmed is being kept a closely guarded secret. Did she film a brief cameo as Kara?

[SupermanUF]

Jun 10, 2013 17:31:38 GMT -5 Jor-L5150 said:

Canadian songwriter Allison Crowe has a mystery role in Man of Steel that amounted to only one day on set but the exact nature of what she filmed is being kept a closely guarded secret. Did she film a brief cameo as Kara?

God I hope not:

[Deleted]

I assume because this is the spoiler thread, you all know what you're getting into and I don't have to do spoiler space.

Crowe's daughter sings "Ring of Fire" in the background at a bar in Smallville.

Superman snapping Zod's neck is really fucked up and I do not support it being in this movie or any movie at all, whatsoever. Yes, it happened in the comics as a last resort after a few years of a reboot following fifty years of continuity and he exiles himself to space for along time because of what he did. In this movie, he does it and barely bats a fucking eye and goes on with his life. Yes, it was written so that there WAS no alternative but for Superman to kill Zod, but FUCK...come ON. People CHEERED at this. It is ABHORRENTLY WRONG on ALL LEVELS for that sort of thing to get cheered. People should've gasped at the lengths that he had to go, if anything, in shock and surprise, and Superman should've been beside himself for having to do it, but no. Nooooo...they destroy everything that Superman stands for in that one single second and people fucking CHEERED it.

Well, I guess this Superman thinks killing is okay.

Fuck that.

And how many thousands or millions of people were killed throughout this movie? Pretty much most of Metropolis is completely obliterated in this movie. Like, COMPLETELY obliterated. Seriously, going from the movie, millions of people probably died from Zod's destruction, but...is it ever mentioned? Like at all? Remotely? Nope.

This is the Independence Day syndrome. It doesn't matter of a LOT of people are dying as long as it looks cool, right? Doesn't need to be any repercussions or reference to the huge scale of sheer death as long as it's loud and neat, yeah?

Fuck that, too.

On the other hand, Jonathan motioned to Clark to not save him might be one of my favorite moments from any superhero movie ever. Seriously. My jaw dropped and my eyes glistened. Really nailed me hard.

[Deleted]

This is what I was referring to in the original thread when I spoke of an extremely controversial spoiler that leaked to me.

My excitement has honestly died down to the point where I think I can pretty much put the film out my mind until I actually have to see it, it sounds to me like Goyer and co took too big a liberty just put too much emphasis on having what SR didn't have.

[SupermanUF]

First Viewing Thoughts.. My Scene-By-Scene Review!

The Opening Scene

A child is born; it's about as powerful image you can get. We're a minute into this movie, and I almost cried already (It makes me think about how Bryan Singer's opening scene was unforgivable). It's human, it's imperfect, it's real... and it sets the tone for the whole film. And the music, by God, it grabs you from the first few notes. It sounds like 80s sci-fi, but I can't pinpoint what it reminds me of exactly.

Krypton

I'm still not crazy about the Krypton stuff. I feel like my fears from the trailers were basically realized... it really looked like Attack of the Clones, from Geonosis-Krypton to the unnecessary alien creature shots to the Queen-Amidala-looking "council" to the shots of Jor-El falling down chasms, Anakin and Obi-Wan style.

I"m really digging the score at this point though... and I realized that Zimmer's Krypton music reminds me of the love theme from Queen's Flash Gordon score, which is one of my favorite movie tracks of all time.

Jor-El and Lara's banter as they're sending off baby Kal-El will remind you of Brando and York's "He'll be fast. Virtually invulnerable." "Isolated. Alone."

The Oil Rig

I wasn't thrilled this was his big first "Superman" moment, because it didn't build up to it at all. It happens too soon. I feel like the moment when he rips the door off when he's covered in flames, you're supposed to applaud? I don't know. But how can you? He's not really Superman yet. That "stand up and applaud!" never really materializes at all, but this was the point in the film when I really started to have separation anxiety from S:TM. In retrospect, this was my least favorite part of the entire movie. It just doesn't work for me. It's too hurried.

The Young Clark stuff

It's all good. Kinda feels like I've seen all this already though, from the trailers alone. Well, that and Smallville, to which all these flashbacks seem to treat as main source material.

Costner summons Glenn Ford's "you were put here for a reason."

Fortress of Solitude

Let's just say that Amy Adams is a great Lois. Possibly the best ever. She's just so believable. Not an ounce of ditzy or troublemaking... just a reporter with balls, and you never question her romance with Superman. This is the most natural love story between them we've ever gotten. It just happens, and you sort of accept it. There's not those usual questions in the back of your mind like "why did he choose HER above all other women?" It just makes sense, and you understand. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Really loved the art deco inspired Kryptonian history... though not sure they just retold the first act of the movie. We just watched it! I'm pretty sure I recognized some things from the Superman: Birthright comic. PS, did you notice the open pod? Did Kara wake up? Also, is the "generation chamber" (that tank of Kryptonian embryos) basically this movie's version of the Bottled City of Kandor? Think about it. Kinda makes sense. 'Specially if Kara was on that ship. Anyway...

Wished the suit reveal was a little more built up to--All the effort they supposedly went through to have his suit "make sense" in the context of the story, they still don't explain why he's got a red cape, emblem, and boots, while all the colors on Krypton were muted. Jor-El opens the pod and there's the suit, and you have no idea why. By the time he puts on the costume and takes his first flight (and by the way, Gillette was right, you really do wonder when and how did he shave?), it doesn't have the same gravitas it had in S:TM.

I'm not sure how I feel about everything up to this point. The chopped-up narrative structure really makes you long for the epic, building, linear narrative structure of S:TM. That said...

Superman turns himself in

This is the point in the film where I decided I liked it. When he's hovering over the military, THAT is Superman. His reasons for turning himself in, THAT is Superman.

Smallville Battle

And this is where I decided I loved it. This scene is everything you've ever wanted to see in a Superman movie. And my worries about the effects were sort of unfounded. It all looks really great onscreen and truly feels like something we've never seen before in any action/superhero blockbuster. Also anyone who says this movie is humorless must have slept through this scene--Russell Crowe is at the top of his game here, and him helping Lois is one of my favorite scenes in the whole thing.

By the time Superman saves Lois and they land in the cornfield, I realized that the "stand up and applaud" moment was probably never going to come. This would have been that moment in Superman Returns. This was basically the plane rescue. Yet if they landed in a baseball field with a crowd that started to clap, we as an audience would have wanted to clap. But it speaks volumes about this Superman, and the sort of overarching message of this entire movie--Superman is not about bravado.

New Krypton?

I was really surprised they went this route, but it made so much more damn sense in this movie than in Superman Returns. I was dreading this was where they were going with it when Zod first made reference to the "Planet Engine," but ah well it was only about 20 minutes worth of plot anyway so who cares. At least he didn't lift a continent-sized chunk of Kryptonite.

Metropolis Battle

Such a great fight. It felt like icing on the cake after that Smallville battle. To anyone who says this was "too much action," I say "Bring it on!" You're left wanting the sequel. And by the way, this KILLS the Avengers New York scene. KILLS IT.

Breaking Zod's neck is going to be a divisive moment among some of us, but for me, it was much easier to accept than, say, discovering he had fathered a five year old kid. The moment carried with it all the appropriate gravitas--it wasn't an easy decision--but apparently his only choice (though I kept wondering why he didn't just cover Zod's eyes with his hands?). Don't forget, since this is "Superman Begins," after all... Perhaps, looking forward, this is THE defining moment where he DEVELOPS his "no kill" rule. Wouldn't that be more meaningful then him just having it "all along?"

Anything I missed?

Loved Jonathan's death. So poignant. Really found this version of Jonathan fresh and interesting.

Closing Thoughts

Like I said, it takes a while to "cleanse the pallet," so to speak, of S:TM. Yet as much as I love it, I've always said Superman: The Animated Series is about as perfect a rendition of Superman as one can get, and this very much felt like Superman: The Animated Series: The Movie.

Cavill is fucking perfect. My worries about his accent, also completely unfounded. He nails it. Love that last bit at the end of him being from Kansas.

In the end, you're really left wanting more. I was hoping for a Batman Begins "Joker Card" style setup for the sequel and disappointed we didn't get anything like that. I guess the Clark reveal was kinda nice. And boy, he really looks like Welling in those last shots! Still, I'm anxious to see what they do with the next one now that our main characters are all established. After all, to get The Dark Knight, we first had to have Batman Begins.

So, 4/5 stars seems to be an accurate grade for me. I feel like this movie does what it set out to do, establishing a modern Superman for today's society. This is going to be the Superman for MY children someday, and honestly, I feel very good about that.

[Deleted]

I'll say this, I cannot WAIT to see it again.

You're right about the romance between Lois and Clark. It just happens. They're there for each other and it builds to it. It works and makes sense and feels natural. I liked it and loved her as Lois. I agree with a lot of what you said, particularly the suit reveal. It just happens. I mean, there was an EXCELLENT build up and reveal for Batman in Batman Begins, why the fuck couldn't Superman get one?

And MELONI! That dude's so awesome. I loved him in this. His final moment was pretty goddamn badass.

I'm starting to like it more the more I think about it, honestly. Thursday, midnight, will be the real viewing, where I don't have to worry about what's happening next, and I just get to WATCH the goddamn thing and enjoy it. I feel I'll like it a lot more the second time around.

[eccentricbeing]

If I remember correctly, Superman did break Zod's hand and tossed him into an abyss to his death in 2. Soooo yeah....just saying.

[SupermanUF]

[Paul (ral)]

About killing Zod...I kept thinking why didn't the family run away...there was space!

Typical Nolan/Goyer stuff.

Having said that, although killing Zod was unsettling, Supermans scream afterwards was something that evoked a sense that he was fucking torn up about it.

[Deleted]

Yeah, until he was done and seemed to be alright about it. Maybe, indeed, it'll be the moment that makes him invoke his "no killing" rule.

[Paul (ral)]

Part of the movie's problem - it didn't dwell on moments like that.

[Paul (ral)]

I honestly think Nolan was a poor influence on the heart that the film should have had.

[Paul (ral)]

There was one landing shot towards the end where Supes was carrying Lois - it was really bad. I was like "WTF"?

[Jor-L5150]

Kev- you're not "wrong" for feeling the way you do- and you noted kris and I reffered to superman vol 2 #22 precisely because superman had no alternative- and yes it did have unexpected consequences that led to one of the best superman arcs ever, so I wonder if mos 2 will address that?

Also- he effectively killed zod in S2 as eccentric said.
(We all know the extended cut had zod alive and in custody)
Do you suppose that superman fans grown up on george reeves would have seen superman 2 in the fashion you're seeing elements of mos (not just killing zod- getting lois pregnant)?
Is it generational-

[Jor-L5150]

Anyone buy the theory that meloni will be metallo in part 2?

[SupermanUF]

To me, killing Zod has Goyer's paw prints all over it.

I understand and appreciate what they were trying to do... this is a Superman that made a choice; he chose humanity over his own fellow Kryptonian... but you really are left wondering why didn't he at least try to somehow block or divert the laser beams?? It's not a sticking point for me, and the scream at the end was enough to say "this was a big deal." Like I said, this is "Superman Begins"... he's allowed to make mistakes.

That said, I really feel like Man of Steel 2 will be the film we have all been waiting for, now that all his crisis of conscience stuff is out of the way.

[eccentricbeing]

Jun 12, 2013 9:53:46 GMT -5 SupermanUF said:

That said, I really feel like Man of Steel 2 will be the film we have all been waiting for, now that all his crisis of conscience stuff is out of the way.

But this movie was the one we've been waiting for though.

[SupermanUF]

Yes, but all my issues with this film mainly come from his formative stuff, the origin stuff they felt they needed to do. I think once he's actually Superman, he's everything he should be.

[eccentricbeing]

There's nothing wrong with telling his origin, but I think they tried to be so far-removed from the previous movies that they created the flashback narrative just for that. I feel that narrative wasn't written the right way to provide the viewer some dramatic substance among the moments in Clark Kent's life as well as the urgency behind Krypton's destruction. They gave us drama in the form of hors d'oeuvres.

Honestly, I felt the first 5-10 minutes of the movie (the Krypton scenes) were more like an opening Bond sequence. As soon as we saw the ship fly passed the moon, I was expecting a title cue. But no, it jumps to him on the fishing boat. I was "Ok...maybe we're going to get that part in Kent's life and journey with him from there." Then within seconds, he goes to rescue the guys at the oil plant and...that's it. It jumps back to when he's a kid in school. I felt like the flashbacks served more to give us something of his memory....which is cool idea. But they don't give us the time to INTRODUCE US to these characters!!!

Since this is a full on reboot, reintroduce us to these characters. Shit, evening the new Spider-Man movie did that and even though some of us may have bitched about that, it made some of us appreciate the character development behind Peter, Gwen, Uncle Ben, Aunt May, etc. We know Uncle Ben was going to die, but the movie allows us to take in the relationships and actually like Martin Sheen's portrayal. But of course, this argument only works if you found the movie to be OK or better.

The one time in the movie where there was a stake in someone's life and the movie played out on its suspense is when Jenny is trapped in the rubble. Um...who is she again? Movies use tricks to create suspense on characters who aren't even a part of the movie and they do this by either putting a child in danger or an animal in danger. We know that if we see either, we immediately are going to empathize and connect. But when it's an adult that's not part of the main cast, we don't give a shit. Sad, but movie. This is what happens here.

Now, the too much action argument...

It was great seeing these feats being performed. None of this has even been seen. This makes the Superman II battle scenes look like stop-animation with Mattel figurines. But it was way over the top, which is good....for Man of Steel 2.

Metropolis is fucking wiped out. WRECKED! A good portion of the city is leveled down to nothing. At least in the Avengers, New York was rebuildable. Fucked, but rebuildable. Metropolis, though....Jesus, man. If that had happened in real life, America would be bankrupted. But yet, Clark gets a job at the Daily Planet not too long afterwards!

But my point is that the action stakes were raised TOOOOOO high for a first movie. What the heck are they going to do for the sequel? You can't certainly raise the bar after that one. One would hope that Synder and Goyer keep the action down and focus on the characters more. Fuck, say what you want, but even Michael Bay takes time to focus on his characters.

One idea I had is that maybe they use ground zero as a way to bring Luthor in and have him rebuild that part of Metropolis. Have seen as the "good guy" at first, but has other intentions. In my opinion, that's the only way they can stitch that logical problem for part 2. Unless they want to go the Batman route and just forget about the train and the Narrows island all together like they never existed. But um, it's kinda hard to forget the middle of the city turned into an airport runway.

I can understand the beef with killing Zod. They wrote themselves into that corner because there was no way to resolve the Zod conflict after the black hole. In my mind, as I was watching the movie before the third act, I was thinking Zod was going to be disposed of by a clever, intelligent-beating move by Superman where Zod would up back in the Phantom Zone. However, I do like the idea that Superman will learn from this horrible experience killing the only other Kryptonian in existence.

Lois and Superman...I read that they're relationship went too fast, but honestly...I think it progressed naturally. Under those circumstances of being together like that, it would definitely bring two people like that together. Especially, sexually. I didn't think they were in love with each other and that's the point. There's a great attraction between the both of them and it helps a lot that the actors have good chemistry.

Russell Crowe was one of the best things in this movie. He did NOT phone this one in and I love it. I wish we had 20 minutes more of him on Krypton. Shannon wasn't bad either. Kevin says he was subdued...I don't see how. He was pretty intense, but not a murdering psychopath. Costner was also really good, but damn...I wish they played out his character a little more. I found it annoying that we have his death scene and later in the movie, we get another moment with him alive again. The narrative bugged the shit out of me like that. I see what they were trying to do, but it just wasn't working that well for me. The self-sacrifice with the tornado would've had more weight if they had built a little more with his ideal that the world wasn't ready for him yet. But this all has to do with Pa Kent not getting a proper introduction to us.

But with all said, I liked the movie. It's not horrible, but it's not great either. There's not much nuances and subtlety. There is humor. It's not completely cold, but I felt like the movie was an objective take on Superman. Which leads me remembering back what Synder said for his direction of his movie a while back....he said he saw this more of a documentary. That's pretty much what it is almost. A detached collection of facts and tales on the story of Superman.

[Deleted]

Jesus eccentric that makes for grim reading. What were they thinking jumping back and forth in that manner? especially back to Pa Kent after he's died. I saw a clip the other day with Crowe fighting off two guys before running out to see the destruction taking place, it was fantastic, he seems to have the biggest presence in the film.

But this story really seems like a weird mish mash, and it seems like they almost snookered themselves with the action.

I can accept this if it definitely gets a sequel and learns from the mistakes, but they've made life harder for themselves because for MOS2 the critics will walk back in expecting (and in some cases no doubt looking) to pan it again. How do you sell a sequel to a movie some people weren't all that into in the first place?

I still haven't seen it, but I know enough about it now so know this will not satisfy me the way I hoped it would. It's just a tad disappointing because some of the choices in the script seem a bit baffling. But anyway, I need to try and clear my head of this negativity before I see it on Friday (which I'm not looking forward to nearly as much as I was before the 10th)!

Last review I read had the headline "CGI laden Slugfest with little heart"

[Deleted]

Kris, quit worrying about what we think and see it for yourself. You're gonna drive yourself nuts doing this. You may LOVE it.

[eccentricbeing]

What are you doing here, Kris?

Go see the movie and form your own opinions. Don't let us influence your viewing pleasure. I feel a little guilty to set you astray like that. It's not as bad as how I wrote it. My review was more of a counterargument. There's good stuff in this movie, don't get me wrong. It's more entertaining than Superman Returns for me. And there's nothing in Man of Steel that made me cringe uncomfortably because of cheese or dumb references to other movies and pop culture.

The fact that I'm willing to see it again is a good thing. My first impressions are usually solid.

[Paul (ral)]

Jun 12, 2013 13:04:10 GMT -5 eccentricbeing said:

The fact that I'm willing to see it again is a good thing. My first impressions are usually solid.

Same here. I'm looking forward to seeing it again next Tuesday. As long as it was, I was left wanting more story. I actually forgot about about good ole Daily Planet Clark Kent while watching the movie. Then he showed up and I was thing "Ohhhh yeahh! OK now, where's Cavill going to go with this" then it was BOOM - Man of Steel titles. I want moooooorrrrre!

Have to say...his Daily Planet Clark reminded me of Welling a bit.

[Jor-L5150]

To look at the "superman kills zod" scene again- and please please understand that no one is "wrong" for being stunned, aghast or irritated-
But as eccentric pointed out, what happens in superman 2 has superman almost cavalier about it.
Don't get me wrong, I love it- its beautifully done, but superman HAS powers, zod does NOT - superman could effortlessly arrested them and taken them into custody. Instead he smiles, and throws zod over the edge. If zod
survives the fall he will die of starvation or freeze to death.
Superman is more concerned about lois being heartbroken about the "break up" than any anxiety over killing zod.

In byrnes classic, it isn't at all cavalier- but it IS absolutely premeditated. He has to do it because he's fighting a pre-crisis version kryptonian. But it is planned and deliberate.

In MOS the editing may have lacked subtlety but it isn't like cavills superman says to the holo-jor "imma break his neck time I see him!"

So, I get why people will be taken aback. We don't want superman to be a killer. Iron man kills terrorists. Captain america kills nazis ( and the attack of the clones cricket people). Wolverine and punisher don't give a flip.

But superman and captain marvel are different. I won't be surprised if MOS 2 has some fallout from that event.