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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 19, 2013 18:24:05 GMT -5
Had a hard time phrasing this thread properly without exceeding the letters' limit. What I mean is, if you did have a chance to have a Q&A with any cast or crew of any of the Superman films, who would you love to have that Q&A with, and what would you ask? (Or has enough info come out on all of them that most everything has been answered?) Personally, my 'wish' list would be: *1: Bryan Singer- Would have him share EVERYTHING he had on the goods for what he would have done for the sequel. We know work had stalled on the script- but whatever he had in mind, whatever bits, would love to have had that. *2: Stuart Baird- Would have him sit down and talk about all the things he would and WOULDN'T have done in the editing of the RDC. It might bore people to tears, but, me, I'd want to have him talk about every frame and edit choice. And, I'd make him steal the keys to the WB vault and reassemble the RDC the way it could really be done. *3: Richard Lester- All those changes to Donner's vision, and keeping his mouth shut to the press about who filmed the best scenes? I want him to admit my conspiracy theory that he was foaming at the mouth when Donner quit/got fired to use Donner's footage to get a career comeback. *4: Anyone at WB who has access to Puzo's original script for STM and SII. Why not release the thing? Make it an official WB book for sale if WB needs the bucks. C'mon.... *5: Sidney Furie- There's got to be a LOT that this guy probably has wanted to say about how SIV came out the way it did.... and a lot that probably still hasn't been mentioned. I don't necessarily need dirt on people (were actors or producers misbehaving at all to contribute to the mess?)- but it'd just be nice to really know all the specifics (did ANY scene really 'hit the nail on the head' for Furie.... or did Furie throw his hands up after the budget got slashed and just sleepwalk though?). *6: Michael Thau- Explain yourself. Every frame. Anyhow- I still think there's a lot of info out there to be had. Anyone else want more interviews on these films to show up somewhere, or had enough?  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 23:43:19 GMT -5
Richard Pryor. But he's dead.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 22, 2013 14:10:34 GMT -5
All of the above. Mank is the one who'd have the most knowledge but he's gone too.  I would LOVE to go drinking with illya. I'd probably wake up in another continet with puzzling injuries. But it'd be a hoot.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 22, 2013 15:10:44 GMT -5
;D
Mank seemed the sharpest of memory in the documentaries. Also, in reading his version of the SII scripts, by far the best choices there. I think he's equally responsible as Donner for STM/SII's quality (although I don't think he did the RDC any favors by some of his suggestions...).
As far as Ilya goes--- I know he rubs some people the wrong way, but I think what he's been saying in interviews actually have a degree of logic to them and seems pretty up-front about some of his own failings with not reigning in Lester's changes.
Definitely entertaining to listen to in commentaries, whether one agrees with him or not.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 22, 2013 16:37:48 GMT -5
Love to hear Lester's version of events. Thought that'd be a no brainer!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 22, 2013 17:12:49 GMT -5
Well.... that he allowed himself to be in that 'making of' and be cut in a way that made him look like he was THE director of SII, and be fine with accepting full credit---
How do you make oneself look good in an interview talking about it after the fact?
When Ilya gave his side of the story, it sounded fair enough (to me anyways)--- but it's hard to think of any way Lester can come out of a new interview and come off as sympathetic. But, yeah, I'd love to get his and Furie's detailed views on the making of the Supes films, too...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 10:01:55 GMT -5
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Post by Kamdan on Feb 23, 2013 10:12:21 GMT -5
Yes, Lester needs to speak about his experiences on Superman. Wonder if he knows that Donner hates his guts and refuses to acknowledge his name. Someone that I've never really hear speak about the films is Ned Beatty. I'd love to hear his thoughts and stories.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 23, 2013 11:02:42 GMT -5
Well.... that he allowed himself to be in that 'making of' and be cut in a way that made him look like he was THE director of SII, and be fine with accepting full credit--- How do you make oneself look good in an interview talking about it after the fact? When Ilya gave his side of the story, it sounded fair enough (to me anyways)--- but it's hard to think of any way Lester can come out of a new interview and come off as sympathetic. But, yeah, I'd love to get his and Furie's detailed views on the making of the Supes films, too... Sounds to me you've already made up your mind no matter what he may or may not say.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 11:05:17 GMT -5
can admin remove this fucking smiley to stop CAM using it every second post ;D Anyways, it would be Lester for me |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 23, 2013 11:36:12 GMT -5
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 23, 2013 11:40:04 GMT -5
Yeah, but...
I thought that way about the Salkinds and their firing of Donner- but when Ilya came out with his interviews, his arguments did sound reasonable and cut through the rest, to at least see some valid points on the other side of the story.
If Lester came out and said his piece, it could do the same. There might well be factors that aren't being mentioned to make me look at it differently, and would love to hear/ read about it.
And...
I'd also be curious about that conversation that Ilya Salkind mentioned about Lester and Williams talking about working together, and Williams' leaving the room, saying he was not going to work with Lester.
(*Williams says it was just a scheduling conflict years later, but you have to wonder why Ilya would say that story in an interview....)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 13:23:01 GMT -5
you got a special attachment to that ;D |
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Gandy
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Post by Gandy on Feb 23, 2013 16:27:58 GMT -5
Mank probably knew a lot more than he'd care to mention. When I met him he wasn't in the best of shape, but he could regal some wonderful stories, puffing away on his ciggies. Mank was incredibly sharp; it did intimidate me - I felt so small.  Ilya probably gives a more balanced story of what happened. I think he has his regrets, but not everything was down to him. It takes two sides to tango. Nobody knew how to make the film. I'd love to interview the clapperboard kid - Steve Barron. He did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Stuart Baird is another one I'd like to talk to. And Pierre Spengler. Very reserved in interviews, though. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 23, 2013 21:51:01 GMT -5
Brad- I love ya- PLEASE no huff-po references. You're better off with "the view" touting al jazeera doing a segment on zionists. As scott adams ("dilbert" comics) says- "huffpo is where context goes to die" You are right though- mank had a book out just before he died- shame on us all we haven't read it. Gandy- I'm ferociously jealous you met mank and ilya. ;D I'd love to get old starlog magazines out and get illya liqoured up and have him look at all that old coverage and unload. He's a heck of a lot of fun. Id also like to grill roger benton on the funny money geurilla fundraising "pirate filmmaking" the salkinds were capable of. |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 23, 2013 21:53:58 GMT -5
Yes, Lester needs to speak about his experiences on Superman. Wonder if he knows that Donner hates his guts and refuses to acknowledge his name. Someone that I've never really hear speak about the films is Ned Beatty. I'd love to hear his thoughts and stories. It'd be informative to hear his side- but he stopped giving a shit about 30 years ago. I doubt he'd go out of his way to acknowledge he even did superman movies. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Feb 23, 2013 22:00:52 GMT -5
Jor-El, you're the man.
Anyway, I'd love to hear Lester and Beatty (good call, Kam), but especially Lester.
Has Stamp given his accounts? I'm drawing a blank. I thought he did...
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 24, 2013 14:55:31 GMT -5
Loved the Superman Cinema interviews Gandy- but I felt your frustration with Mank's interview--- if anyone had a sharp memory, it seemed to be Mank- but it's a pity that he either wasn't feeling like sharing or just unwiling to 'spill the beans' at length on STM/SII.
So much time has passed on those films, that one would think that it'd be okay for everyone to say anything and everything without really offending anyone as far as the making of the films, and what decisions made what happen.
From everything that's passed by so far from all the stories and interviews these years, it seems like:
#1: Without Ilya, nothing would have started on the Superman films-
#2: It was Ilya's passion, but his dad's money. I'd guess that it may not be impossible that Ilya was aware of his dad being a bit sneaky/ shady with money transactions, but..... damn, it's almost like his dad was giving his son the biggest birthday present ever in financing this wild dream to make this film, so long as he didn't ask too many questions. Ilya may or may not be totally innocent, but I doubt he's totally responsible for the mishandlings of moneys mentioned in the process of filmmaking.
#3: Pierre Spengler gets blamed a lot by Donner--- but I think someone mentioned that he may have been the messenger/scapegoat who had to do the dirty work, and not really in charge. If he got the job because he was Ilya's best friend- rather than having an enormous amount of experience.... Was he merely a messenger/front man or did he have a chance to do a great job by everybody if he listened to Donner's advice?
My own guess is that he was mostly a messenger.
#4: Richard Lester did a rushed cheap job, and bent it more to his aesthetics. He got the film done, regardless of how one felt about the end results, one has to give him that.
If he wants to take his point of view as to what happened and how he came to make his decisions to the grave with him, that's his choice, but it's so far long ago, one would think he would score some points with fans (though he probably could care less) if he did share his frame of mind at the time of choosing to take over the film, and why decisions were made during the making of it.
One may or may not agree with what Lester says, but at least it'd help to make his choices a bit more understandable. (Much like Joel Shumacher's commentaries on his Batman films make those films more interesting to watch because of the thought process behind them- even the really horrible one).
While they're still alive, I guess there's still a CHANCE to hear it....
but the clock is definitely ticking....
#3:
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Feb 24, 2013 15:46:43 GMT -5
He did a great job given the circumstances. Not his fault if it was "cheap" (which I disagree with. Rushed - yes, he had time constraints, cheap - not really)
Blame that on the producers.
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 24, 2013 16:18:21 GMT -5
#3: Pierre Spengler gets blamed a lot by Donner--- but I think someone mentioned that he may have been the messenger/scapegoat who had to do the dirty work, and not really in charge. If he got the job because he was Ilya's best friend- rather than having an enormous amount of experience.... Was he merely a messenger/front man or did he have a chance to do a great job by everybody if he listened to Donner's advice? My own guess is that he was mostly a messenger. Is Spengler even a real surname? Someone should ask him that in an interview. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Feb 25, 2013 1:34:03 GMT -5
Not as cheap as Superman IV, certainly, but... The way it was shot- with the exception of maybe the bus toss (Which was done in a very Donner-like way, I have to admit) and a couple of 'snippet' shots (the 'would you like to step outside' reshoot & the shirt rip/run)....
The bothersome thing to me was how Lester chose to re-allocate the funds creatively. He could have kept more of the Donner stuff and have saved money on the Paris sequence- and kept more to the Mank script and not shot the 'lois jumps into the lake' shot and instead shot more of the hotel bits (which would cost next to nothing) as was in the Mank script---- and maybe save more money for fx for the underwhelming Metro battle.
Not to mention all the extra deleted stuff (like the people of different worlds watching tv and complaining about the news) that were there for cheap jokes, too.
Was Lester really passionate about these changes, or was he just doing a job to do a job?
Anyhow--- yeah, it wasn't CHEAP CHEAP, but there are sure a lot of Lester sequences that look like it was shot for a tv movie for my taste.... and I'm not sure- on the surface- that it had to.
Again, why it would be great to get Lester's take on the whole thing.... (That part I think everyone can agree with)
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Feb 25, 2013 16:41:50 GMT -5
@ CAM- you're right- it is all ilya's idea. as much as we are indebted to donner for striking the right (for the time) tone, it wasn't even an option untill ilya's big idea.
yes, there had been superhero films; "superman and the mole men" was a good movie as such, a good message and a great portrayal, but lacked the budget and visual FX to really do the character justice.
"batman (66)" was entertaining, but deliberately NOT verisimilitude. there had also been serials, of various superheros, with good intentions but not really meant to be taken seriously.
what ilya did was invent the idea of a FRANCHISE approach. there weren't too many "franchises" at that point. when S:TM began production "star wars" was still in the wings, "star trek" was an old show in re-runs. the james bond series was well underway but geared toward an adult audience.
no one thought about superheroes, and superhero movies that way until ilya.
@yesman,
yes- lester did more than a serviceable job with a less than desirable circumstance.
"lose the brando footage- but keep the hackman footage"
"....uh....they're in scene TOGETHER!"
"find a way to make it work"
and he did.
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atp
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Post by atp on Feb 25, 2013 17:44:13 GMT -5
Wasn't Mankiewicz the guy who came up with the idea of turning the world back in STM and then as if that wasn't retarded enough once, he decided it needed to be done again in the Donner cut?  |
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cypher85
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Post by cypher85 on Feb 26, 2013 8:41:16 GMT -5
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Kirok
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Post by Kirok on Feb 26, 2013 9:28:04 GMT -5
Wasn't Mankiewicz the guy who came up with the idea of turning the world back in STM and then as if that wasn't retarded enough once, he decided it needed to be done again in the Donner cut? As someone who is fine with the time reversal of STM, I could not disapprove more of it being reused in the RDC. And as I understand it, Mank was the one that pushed it through because of his belief that "Clark Kent and Lois Lane should never kiss," therefore eliminating the Lester kiss as an option. There's no question he brought a lot of good to Superman, but that was a stupid call. |
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