Rank Movies

[Jimbo]

Jun 16, 2013 17:35:03 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Jeepers, is the SII ABC cut THAT good? I don't remember it being, it has been years since I've seen it, though. A lot of you surprisingly have it so highly placed.

It's not that it's so good, but that it's the most complete version of S2 in existence (aside from lack of Brando).

The RIC takes it a step further by adding as much junk as possible. ABC cut got it just right.

[Shane]

MOS
STM
SR
S2
S4
S3

[ChrisM]

Jun 12, 2013 19:49:47 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

STM
SII
MOS (may be a tie with SII?)
SR
SIII
SIV

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

Pretty much in agreement. It's amazing SII is generally still held in such high regard because it is such a strange beast with Lester's slapstick, Donner's great scenes, jekyll-and-hide Lois, and wildly inconsistent FX. The script for SII had such enormous potential that it basically misfired on many of the above elements and still produced a winner.

[EnriqueH]

But as I mentioned in an other, wen SII is good---which is 95-99% of the time IMO---it's SO good.

[crazy_asian_man]

It's amazing SII is generally still held in such high regard because it is such a strange beast with Lester's slapstick, Donner's great scenes, jekyll-and-hide Lois, and wildly inconsistent FX. The script for SII had such enormous potential that it basically misfired on many of the above elements and still produced a winner.

True!

[atp]

S2 was a winner partly because of the era it came out in.

In 1980, audiences (like me, for example) were still stunned by the magic of STM and the magic of seeing someone fly. I recall that kids were talking about STM for years after it was released. Just getting to grips with one super being was like an "event" that partly defined our childhoods.

And so, the idea of a sequel where there were three other people with exactly the same powers as Superman... well, back in in 1980, that was almost unthinkable. There was no time to worry about flaws in the movie.

Of course, nowadays, super beings in movies are a dime a dozen, so S2 probably wouldn't have had the same impact if released now. Its flaws would definitely be pulled to shreds and we'd probably be seeing 3/5 reviews for it too.

[crazy_asian_man]

S2 was a winner partly because of the era it came out in.

In 1980, audiences (like me, for example) were still stunned by the magic of STM and the magic of seeing someone fly. I recall that kids were talking about STM for years after it was released. Just getting to grips with one super being was like an "event" that partly defined our childhoods.

And so, the idea of a sequel where there were three other people with exactly the same powers as Superman... well, back in in 1980, that was almost unthinkable. There was no time to worry about flaws in the movie.

Of course, nowadays, super beings in movies are a dime a dozen, so S2 probably wouldn't have had the same impact if released now. Its flaws would definitely be pulled to shreds and we'd probably be seeing 3/5 reviews for it too.

I have a similar experience.... the ambition of STM to treat a movie about the Superman character like a movie about the life of Ghandi under Donner- without a trace of cynicism or mockery (or embarrassment- see the "Can you read my mind?" sequence)- is what gave/gives the movie the 'magic' that many films lack.

Since movies like "Spiderman" and the like have followed in STM's footsteps, though - you're 1000% right- it would be considered far less special of an event.

Also--- if it came out as it did- I imagine that perhaps kids under a certain age could connect to it, but others would be just too colored by much faster-moving entertainment to stay with it. (*Had a situation of showing kids in mid-school age recently the original SW only to have them feel the movie boring and wayyy too dated fx-wise and otherwise, to my dismay.)

[atp]

I vividly remember my parents taking me to the drive-in to see S2. I was pretty frightened by the idea of there being three evil people with the same powers as Superman.

[crazy_asian_man]

I vividly remember my parents taking me to the drive-in to see S2. I was pretty frightened by the idea of there being three evil people with the same powers as Superman.

I'm curious... how did the slapstick in the Metropolis battle play for you at that age?

For me, I remember there was a lot of shocked silence in the theatre (not in a good way- it felt similar to the reaction with the time reversal in STM, I remember looking around to see if others had the same grimace on their faces as I did), and I remember it being the only time where Lester's choices REALLY felt like it stopped the flow of the movie dead in its tracks.

[Deleted]

I loved the slapstick as a kid. I think I do now?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards

[atp]

I don't really remember noticing that in the drive-in. (I did notice it through the countless VHS viewings over the years though, but strangely enough, it never bothered me.)

The things that stood out for me in S2 were:
- Eiffel Tower bomb exploding in space.
- Phantom Zone smashing (I found that scary).
- Superman losing his powers and turning into a skeleton scared me.
- Getting beaten up at the diner upset me.
- Zod using heat vision.

I remember LOVING the ending when Clark teaches the bully a lesson, although I had to ask my parents what he meant when he said, "I've been working out." Back then, I had never even heard of weights or gyms.

One other thing: I always, always, always just took it for granted that S2 was better than STM. There was even a slogan that said, "If you've only seen the first part, you haven't seen the best part!" Of course, it's now patently obvious that STM is the better film, but at the time, most of us kids believed the opposite.

[crazy_asian_man]

Well.... Didn't want to break the rules, but I saw there weren't any set, so...
Ranking Superhero films with Superman films- not-necessarily the most well made from beginning to end, but the ones that I'd most likely to see again the most times and how I put a value on them to be in my 'top ten queue'....

TOP TEN
#1: SII (hybrid version)- It's unfinished, but the second part of Donner's story, but it's a great hint of what could have been. It's definitely NOT the best, but the oddest superhero
film experience ever- it's more of a mental puzzle than anything else- you get half a great superhero film, and you get half of this sitcom cheaper version mixed in-
- and you can never really fully experience the film the same way once you see both versions or know the whole story.


#2/#3 TDK/STM (tie) - Two very different pictures- TDK is almost a perfect superhero film, maybe the first 'superhero film done as a horror film set in a similar reality'- and
appeals to the inner fifteen year old who would love to see what a 'real' superhero film might feel like if it were in this reality...

Whereas STM is more of a fairy tale for the inner 7 year old that wants to believe in purity and happy endings- it
has a ton of heart and variety- and has some unforgettable sequences that were done in a way
that has been imitated, but never matched (helicopter rescue/Smallville sequences/Lois' funny interview w/Supes)... both fantastic in their own ways.

#4 SPIDERMAN II/SPIDERMAN - I kind of think of these as one story--- SII is stronger, and has great buildup to a (sadly) disappointing SIII- but the end of
SII where by the end Parker discovers life doesn't completely suck and that it's a mixed bag, but accepts it- is oddly very uplifting.


#5 X-MEN/X-MEN II/FIRST CLASS- Same thing. Just as STM/SII are pretty much one film experience (that was never fulfilled). X1 and X2 I see in the same vein... but what makes/made this one of a kind is that... just like STM gets (proper) credit for setting a model that can
work for adapting a sole superhero film- X1 shows how to adapt something that should
have been somewhat unfilmable, considering the size of the Xmen universe and its history. It's the "Lord of the Rings" of superhero films.

#6 CAPTAIN AMERICA - If Peter Parker or being an Xman (that is, feeling like an outsider) is closer to how people feel in real life, Steve Rogers as portrayed in this movie
is what I'd like to strive for. The key to the whole movie is in the beginning with the Doctor and Steve Rogers, when Steve asks, "Why was I chosen?"-
And that the key wasn't looking incredibly handsome or a last survivor to being a hero, but the unselfish nature for the greater good. The downside is that
his nemesis Red Skull gets the short shrift as far as characterization goes, which weakens the conflict. (Missed opportunity with a good character actor as Skull)

#7 AVENGERS - I'm suprised this movie ranks as 'low' as it does on my list. I feel it's because it is a great 'end chapter' to the separate Marvel movies- but is odd as a
standalone. As a standalone, it's greatly enjoyable, with some VERY neat parts- but the movie ultimately is a unique event, rather than a great movie.
It's 50 percent infomercial/trailer for individual Marvel Superhero films that follow this, and 50 percent its own thing... it's one of those things that
you can REALLY admire for the technical/business difficulties in pulling off more than you can actually enjoy- but given that- it's one heckuva entertainment,
despite knowing that 'nothing can REALLY happen, or it'll affect the individual sequels'.

#8 SUPERMAN RETURNS - It's not exactly a 'feel good' movie- as much as it resonates (to me) on a parent level and mortality level.
It's the 'art film' of all superhero films. The Luthor bit and the superhero action bits are weak--- as the unique drama and romance take center stage.
To see Superman in a domestic drama is one thing--- but to see it pulled off WELL is amazing. Singer challenged the norm by introducing parenthood to Superman-
(and its inherent mortality/fear)--- as well as having Superman accept the fact that he pretty much is the world's savior.... and bums me out that it wasn't
taken to a sequel to see where it would have led next, as he regular comics don't commit to anything nearly as daring. (*If they do, it's an 'imaginary story')

#9 IRON MAN - I call this 'the superhero film for old guys' movie. Tony Stark was a pretty bland Bruce Wayne clone- to me - (I haven't read the "Demon in a Bottle" series,
though, which I understand is amazing)- but casting Robert Downey Jr. was a creative marriage made in heaven. He made being cynical and having swagger mixed in
with self-sacrifice and purpose cool. The key scene to this suprisingly effective movie was the one where his cellmate dies while saving Tony, and tells Tony
not to waste what's left of his life. (Sadly, they never really touch on his inner growth again in sequels, but in the Avengers.)

#10 THE CROW - I'm probably the furthest away from enjoying anything gothic--- and I was definitely NOT crazy about the source material for this in the comics. Given how
thin the original material was, I was suprised how gripping - and how humane in spots- this movie was. If "Dark Knight" was 'superhero film as horror film'-
You could maybe say this was 'horror film as superhero film'. When viewing the sequels (Which REALLY highlight how badly this could have been done), one suprisingly
discovers just how essential the beat cop (played by Ernie Hudson/the 4th Ghostbusters) and the little girl on the skateboard (with the screwed up mom) anchor
the film in enough reality. There's not a lot of hope at the end of the film, but with the little given to the beat cop and the little girl, (the scene between
her and her drug-addicted mom is small but well done- not sentimental at all) it's genuinely moving. Shows you don't need to destroy buildings to inspire hope*.
((*Though apparently killing bad guys for revenge in ironic ways isn't out of the question in here.))

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[Metallo]

With all the great entries in the genre over the years MOS wouldn't even make my top ten. The best superhero films push the envelope and change the genre. MOS is yet another comic book movie among many even if its good. There was nothing in the film that really couldn't be done on and the didn't really do anything ground breakingly new either.

The Crow...it really was something else visually and Proyas created one heck of a mood. Brandon would have done his father proud as Eric Draven. There was just really nothing like it at the time. It's of later comic book films owe it on style alone.

Even if we count Unbreakable that was a superhero deconstruction where the director understood the material.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Jim Henson was a genius. That alone is high praise for the film.

[crazy_asian_man]

I loved the slapstick as a kid. I think I do now?

That's interesting... Growing up with the 60's Batman--- I hated the slapstick right away, and was glad to read the Mank script to confirm my suspicions that it was NOT what Donner/Mank ever had in mind.

Nowadays--- It seems to soften the violence for young ones that I show the movie to, so, who knows if Lester and company were right to throw it in.
(*Though I still find it REALLY odd that Lester & company chose to have Non throw that siren to kill that kid on the horse in a deleted scene, if they were constantly thinking about the children in the audience. Odd.)

[crazy_asian_man]

I don't really remember noticing that in the drive-in. (I did notice it through the countless VHS viewings over the years though, but strangely enough, it never bothered me.)

The things that stood out for me in S2 were:
- Eiffel Tower bomb exploding in space.
- Phantom Zone smashing (I found that scary).
- Superman losing his powers and turning into a skeleton scared me.
- Getting beaten up at the diner upset me.
- Zod using heat vision.

I remember LOVING the ending when Clark teaches the bully a lesson, although I had to ask my parents what he meant when he said, "I've been working out." Back then, I had never even heard of weights or gyms.

One other thing: I always, always, always just took it for granted that S2 was better than STM. There was even a slogan that said, "If you've only seen the first part, you haven't seen the best part!" Of course, it's now patently obvious that STM is the better film, but at the time, most of us kids believed the opposite.

LOVED that trailer with "If you've only seen the first part...etc."--- got me thinking that the battle in the skies would have lasted more than a few seconds!

SII is a mix of parts, it's hard for me to separate and compare with STM- but I'm just thrilled (at this point) that Donner got a chance to shoot and that we got to see some of his great scenes for it.

The skeleton, btw, was freaky to me, too...!

[crazy_asian_man]

With all the great entries in the genre over the years MOS wouldn't even make my top ten. The best superhero films push the envelope and change the genre. MOS is yet another comic book movie among many even if its good. There was nothing in the film that really couldn't be done on and the didn't really do anything ground breakingly new either.

The Crow...it really was something else visually and Proyas created one heck of a mood. Brandon would have done his father proud as Eric Draven. There was just really nothing like it at the time. It's of later comic book films owe it on style alone.

Even if we count Unbreakable that was a superhero deconstruction where the director understood the material.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Jim Henson was a genius. That alone is high praise for the film.

I was suprised in composing my list, HOW many good superhero films have actually been made over the years.

The Crow was visually dynamic- but the human element is really what makes it work, I think.
Brandon and his dad..... yeah.... that is majorly sad on what happened to both on all levels. In a parallel universe, it's nice to imagine both being alive and giving us many more great films.

I don't mind it if a superhero film pushes the envelope, (*though I certainly give credit if they do, like Avengers and SR) so long as they execute what they have well--- which I think sadly many still don't quite do. I didn't need MOS to break any new ground, but be competent with the storytelling throughout. Like Watchmen, the results were a mixed bag, though.

Unbreakable I thought was well done, but I wish I knew it was a superhero film to start with.... and I know it's well loved by many fans, but I thought Bruce Willis was majorly miscast.

Curious how far this genre will go before/if it will slow down, though....

[Metallo]

There have been quite a few good ones but even fewer truly great ones.

I liked the Willis casting in Unbreakable because he was one of try few guys in Hollywood who could go from the average guy take the film started out with then be believable as a hero. Willis has always excelled at being the the Everyman who becomes a hero.

Plus he has a face right out of an Alex Ross painting. The film is a strong take on breaking down comic book superhero mythology.

[crazy_asian_man]

I liked the Willis casting in Unbreakable because he was one of try few guys in Hollywood who could go from the average guy take the film started out with then be believable as a hero. Willis has always excelled at being the the Everyman who becomes a hero.

I think he's AWESOME as John McClane--- (Well, for two Diehard films) and in "Sin City"--- but too often, I feel like Willis chooses parts that undersell his abilities as an actor, to a point where I think of him in the same vein as a Schwarzzenegar, doing a particular schtick, and winking at the audience and waiting for the chance to say the line that laughs at the whole situation, rather than being a particular character. That hurt Unbreakable for me. (Though, strangely, I was fine with him in "Sixth Sense".)

[Metallo]

He seems to be doing whatever lately. I haven't seen Looper though. Back in the old days Willis was usually solid.

[Deleted]

He's better in "Looper," but he's not really in it that much. It's JGL's movie. I loved it.

If I had to figure out a rank of my favorite superhero/comic book flicks, not just Superman ...

The Dark Knight
Man of Steel
The Dark Knight Rises
Superman
Batman Begins
Iron Man
Superman II
Superman Returns
Avengers
V for Vendetta ... yeah, V for Vendetta. Suck it.

[Deleted]

I ALWAYS forget about V. It is a pretty goddamn great movie.

[Jor-L5150]

ALWAYS hated the slapstick.

In an era before "fancuts" we would try to edit that shit out by running off a copy on a blank VHS and hitting "pause" whenenver that stuff came up.
And "can you read my mind"

[EnriqueH]

I haven't seen a lot of the 2000-2006 comics films in years, but here's a crack at it:

1. SUPERMAN II

2. SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE

3. DARK KNIGHT

4. DARK KNIGHT RISES

5. X2

6. Batman Returns

7. Incredible Hulk

8. Iron Man

9. Avengers (I still have only seen it once, so I'm due for a rewatch)

10. Captain America

Yeah, I don't think Man of Steel ranks in the Top 10 at all.

[Metallo]

I love X2 more and more every year. Between the Arthurian parallels at the end and the film basically being the X-men's Star Trek II its so awesome.

Was it Ye5man that said MOS doesn't touch any Marvel Studios film? I'd agree with that. At least MOS is better than The FF Flicks Daredevil and Green Lantern. heck its even better than The Amazing Spider-Man despite having some of the same problems. There's a bunch of stuff I'd put over it though. the first TMNT doesn't have the slickness but it has a ton of heart, all the characters pop, shredder was a badass, and Jim Henson studios did great work.

[Jor-L5150]

Superman the movie
Man of steel
Superman 2/ superman returns
Batman begins
Dark knight
Iron man 1
Incredible hulk
Captain america
The crow
X-men 2
Batman 89
Dark knight rises