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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 1, 2013 18:23:04 GMT -5
I love X2 more and more every year. Between the Arthurian parallels at the end and the film basically being the X-men's Star Trek II its so awesome. Arthurian parallels in X-Men 2? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2013 18:46:39 GMT -5
1. STM
2. SII
3. Batman Returns
4. Spiderman II
5. Batman 89
6. Batman Begins
7. MOS
8. X-Men 2
9. Iron Man
10. The Avengers
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 1, 2013 18:57:55 GMT -5
 Geez, I thought I was the ONLY person in the world who did that back in the day! (Though my friends who are non-Superman fans still remind me of how much I tortured them to sit through them.) Too funny....
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 1, 2013 19:01:04 GMT -5
Dark Knight is pretty damn great.... but I wish I felt that MOS and TDKR came close to it in quality, too.
V for Vendetta has some good parts- but read the book, it's SOOOOO much better (particularly how Moore/LLoyd end the story)
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 1, 2013 19:06:36 GMT -5
I haven't seen a lot of the 2000-2006 comics films in years, but here's a crack at it: 1. SUPERMAN II 2. SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE 3. DARK KNIGHT 4. DARK KNIGHT RISES 5. X2 6. Batman Returns 7. Incredible Hulk 8. Iron Man 9. Avengers (I still have only seen it once, so I'm due for a rewatch) 10. Captain America Yeah, I don't think Man of Steel ranks in the Top 10 at all. Respectable list- (Most of the choices you have are on mine, too, so of course I'm going to like it.)  MOS might not even make my top 25, but it's a bummer because I really do like some of Snyder's choices (Krypton & Cavill & the look of the Kryptonians)---and I think, WATCHMEN is a more solidly put together imo overall than MOS... which, again, is disappointing... especially since I think a 3 hour recut might REALLY help MOS. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 1, 2013 19:09:45 GMT -5
Superman the movie Man of steel Superman 2/ superman returns Batman begins Dark knight Iron man 1 Incredible hulk Captain america The crow X-men 2 Batman 89 Dark knight rises WOW.... that high up? It's hard to believe how we all have such similar tastes, but when it comes to MOS (or SR for that matter), it really is confounding how much it seems like a different movie to everybody. Oh well... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 1, 2013 19:16:15 GMT -5
1. STM 2. SII 3. Batman Returns 4. Spiderman II 5. Batman 89 6. Batman Begins 7. MOS 8. X-Men 2 9. Iron Man 10. The Avengers Same thoughts- Interesting how Batman Returns has come up on some lists--- I really enjoyed it after being a bit disappointed in Batman '89 (Read the original script months prior, but the movie was not as good, I thought)- but BB and TDK buried BR for me, though, in top ten... For sure, though-- seeing the top ten from folks here does seem to give me a better feel on how much MOS is loved/liked, in the context of more superhero films, vs. just Superman films per se..... |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 1, 2013 21:15:25 GMT -5
CAM, I remembered being really impressed with Batman Returns, particularly since I thought the first Batman film sucked. I remember looking forward to part 3 a lot. Be careful what you wish for...what a shame.
I forgot to include The Crow on my list. I also really, really enjoyed the Raimi Spiderman flicks, but I just haven't seen them in forever. (Although I do remember lots of scenes.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2013 0:20:22 GMT -5
I ALWAYS forget about V. It is a pretty goddamn great movie. Yep, I really dig V. And not just because of my unrequited love for Natalie. I know I left out stuff like Spider-Man and X-Men, but my list was just favorite and most re-watchable, not what I deemed to be of better production, quality, etc. That's a completely different list. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 2, 2013 1:30:45 GMT -5
I know what you mean--- parts of a movie can just 'click' with me so well, that often I'll end up re-watching and enjoying what I know is an overall inferior film to one that may be far better made when I take a step back or is generally accepted as a better film.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 2, 2013 1:48:40 GMT -5
Enrique, I hear you.... though part 4 certainly makes part 3 look like Citizen Kane. Funny thing is, I remember getting fairly irritated with the Burton Batman films at first--- feeling that their existence would pre-empt the Batman origin being told properly (where Joker WASN"T responsible for Bruce Wayne's parents' death)--- but once the first two Nolan films came out, and did what I felt was such a definitive version of the Batman story--- that I could enjoy and appreciate Burton's 'alternative' take more, looking back.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 2, 2013 8:45:06 GMT -5
CAM, I remembered being really impressed with Batman Returns, particularly since I thought the first Batman film sucked. I remember looking forward to part 3 a lot. Be careful what you wish for...what a shame. I forgot to include The Crow on my list. I also really, really enjoyed the Raimi Spiderman flicks, but I just haven't seen them in forever. (Although I do remember lots of scenes.) Burton was a master of iconic Batman visuals. Especially in Returns. The stories could be weak but he set just the right mood. Returns does have some brilliant stuff in it like how each bad guy represents part of Batmans psyche. And they didn't have to best us over the head with it like certain other film reinventions of late. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 2, 2013 8:50:54 GMT -5
I know what you mean--- parts of a movie can just 'click' with me so well, that often I'll end up re-watching and enjoying what I know is an overall inferior film to one that may be far better made when I take a step back or is generally accepted as a better film. There's a lot of bad films that I love just because they can at least be fun and have some cool moments. When Dick Durock first shows up in Return of Swamp Thing it's heroic awesomeness. I miss Dick Durock. Even the Matt Salinger Captain America has that. Return of and Trial of the Incredible Hulk didn't exactly have the ideal takes on Thor and Daredevil but sometimes they just nailed them. In Daredevils case sometimes they nailed it more than the Affleck movie. Rex Smith is my favorite Matt Murdock and his Daredevil was closer to having the moves. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 3, 2013 20:32:01 GMT -5
I think that was Schwarzennegar's secret to box office success when he was doing all those low-to-moderately budgeted action pics in the 80's. Pity that there hasn't really been anyone to take up Schwarzeneggar's mantle in the movies nowadays.
Haven't seen the Return of and Trial of Hulk tv movies, but am curious after your remark just to see about the guy who plays Matt Murdock.... I recently purchased the pilot out of nostalgia, but ended up falling asleep, so I'm a little wary. Wasn't a bad flick, but we're definitely spoiled by production values on superhero flicks nowadays....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 3, 2013 20:51:41 GMT -5
I just thought he was a better fit than Affleck. A shame about the all black costume but even that had the right idea Daredevil should move like a ninja. Smith had more of a dancers build while Affleck looked too stiff and awkward at times. I liked both guys though. Plus the Trial of The Incredible Hulk TV movie played Matt Murdock more like a frustrated tragic idealist than an angsty burnt out loner outside the suit. Just keep in mind the TV movie budgets! They did go more comic booky than the hulk tv series.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 3, 2013 21:02:30 GMT -5
I love X2 more and more every year. Between the Arthurian parallels at the end and the film basically being the X-men's Star Trek II its so awesome. Arthurian parallels in X-Men 2? Jean "dying" but the hint at a return just like Arthur's. Xavier even directly mentions The Once and Future King which was a big hint that Jean would return and death wasnt forever for her. The last images of both being on water. Arthur being take to Avalon and Jean under Alkali lake with the image of the firebird on the lake at the end of X2. I think the name Pendragon means king dragon. A mythic flying creature that breathes fire. And Jean is of course the Phoenix. A mythic creature of fire that rises from its own ashes. |
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 3, 2013 21:54:27 GMT -5
Arthurian parallels in X-Men 2? Jean "dying" but the hint at a return just like Arthur's. Xavier even directly mentions The Once and Future King which was a big hint that Jean would return and death wasnt forever for her. The last images of both being on water. Arthur being take to Avalon and Jean under Alkali lake with the image of the firebird on the lake at the end of X2. I think the name Pendragon means king dragon. A mythic flying creature that breathes fire. And Jean is of course the Phoenix. A mythic creature of fire that rises from its own ashes. I don't know about that. I don't see those metaphors connecting other than the book was Xavier's favorite in the comics and they use it to parallel Magneto. But Arthur never came back once he died in battle and the Phoenix is a Greek mythological creature, nothing Arthur-related. Though they may have used such allegories in various Arthur stories, like making him a Christ figure e.g. Excalibur. But Jean dying is strictly a Wrath of Khan/sacrifice theme. I don't believe there's other subtext beyond that. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 3, 2013 22:08:54 GMT -5
It's mostly in the end of the film. Like I said Singer uses that story to hint at what's going to happen. even though we never see Arthur come back its something that's stated will happen. Much like they hint at Jeans return. The return aspect is what I'm talking about. Im also not talking about specfic culture but myths in general. Not sure i ever said anything about any specific culture
I already pointed out the similarities between X2 and Star Trek 2. Those bookend the films.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 3, 2013 22:25:03 GMT -5
It's mostly in the end of the film. Like I said Singer uses that story to hint at what's going to happen. even though we never see Arthur come back its something that's stated will happen. Much like they hint at Jeans return. The return aspect is what I'm talking about. Im also not talking about specfic culture but myths in general. Not sure i ever said anything about any specific culture You didn't. I'm just saying the Phoenix resurrection has nothing to do with Arthur directly. It predates him actually. But I can see how they would weave that allegory into the legend by having him (Arthur) be a Christ-like figure. It's a reach to have that connect with Jean's death/resurrection though because people wouldn't connect such a thing with King Arthur. I certainly didn't and I ate up the King Arthur legend big time in my late teens. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 4, 2013 7:02:00 GMT -5
You're right. Never mind. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 4, 2013 11:41:00 GMT -5
Well.... it is borrowing an event from the comics, and I was always thrown when on the commentary it sounded like Singer thought about changing the ending on the day to killing off Jean when they were shooting the 'museum' bits with Jean in the beginning. Without Jean's death as the last bit in the film, it does seem like the film would feel a bit anti-climactic with just Logan carrying off the kid in his hands with the tongue sticking out.
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theoj
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Post by theoj on Aug 3, 2013 8:50:14 GMT -5
Here's mine...
STM theatrical
STM special
SII Lester
STM 3 hour cut
MOS
SII Donner
SIII (love to watch this over and over!)
SR (used to be up near S2 but sadly getting worse with every viewing)
SIV (would still watch this more often than SR)
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 5, 2013 18:55:04 GMT -5
To me, the bummer thing about SR is that it feels often like a first part to a second part that'll never happen....
Nowadays, while I can enjoy parts of it- it feels more like a sampler of a 'what could have been'- rather than a whole movie, much like the Donner Cut....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Aug 5, 2013 19:02:22 GMT -5
One of the problems with the film is it FEELS like an ending to something even though it needed a continuation to make up for some things in the movie.
They were in a real corner creatively speaking because of that. I also wanted to see a sequel. Not that it was the kind of ending begging for one but a sequel could have redeemed things. It's very much like the Star Trek/Star Trek II situation in that sense. Not that the TMP needed a follow up but I was curious about what the heck would happen after that. The first movie was a tribute and reawakening of a years dormant series but the second film was needed more to redeem and correct the mistakes of the first.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 5, 2013 20:25:56 GMT -5
Agreed.... though I wish Singer had some foresight and shot an 'alternate ending' for dvd, just in case he didn't (which turned out to be the case) come back for a sequel.
If this was an ending, then I might have suggested a bit where Richard steps out of the house at the end, Supes and Richard maybe give a nod to one another (to REALLY acknowledge that the Supes/Lois relationship was going to end/ Richard was going to be the adopted dad like Jonathan was to him), and that would be that.
As is--- the bits and pieces about what supposedly Singer came up with for SR2 keep dancing in my head- really wish that someone in Singer's camp would just finish it up as a script or a comic and put it out there. It may be horrible, it may be brilliant, but would be nice to see/read....
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