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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 23, 2013 16:39:13 GMT -5
I'm surprised by the amount of "love" MoS is getting in the other poll.
I don't consider it as successful of a reboot artistically as Batman Begins (or Casino Royale for that matter), but what do you guys think?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 23, 2013 16:47:07 GMT -5
I love much of Snyder's visual choices for MOS, and I don't mind so much the basic story.... so much as the bad editing/poor acting (possibly via editing).
Ideally, Nolan would have directed the dramatic scenes, Snyder the action stuff. Then, I'd think it could have even been better than BB... maybe.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 23, 2013 16:54:33 GMT -5
Batman Begins. Easily. It's just a better put together movie and it also felt like it was treading more new ground that no Batman movie or tv show had ever covered before.
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 23, 2013 17:00:14 GMT -5
Batman Begins. Easily. It's just a better put together movie and it also felt like it was treading more new ground that no Batman movie or tv show had ever covered before. Yeah, that's the problem, I guess. There had never been a good Batman origin movie, (not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but I did not care for the 1989 film very much). Whereas Superman has already been done well. I keep thinking of Margot Kidder's comment about how they haven't been able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. They really haven't. They tried to go all substance and little action in SR, and got a disappointing result. Then they went all out action and little substance and still didn't nail it. Hopefully the next Superman film, if there is one, will nail it. Let's see. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 23, 2013 17:15:22 GMT -5
You ain't hurting anyone's feelings if what you say is true. In Batman part of his origin is covered in flashbacks. His parents deaths. Nothing else. Forever expands on that a little. The West tv series mentioned their deaths in one comment and that's it. Superpowers covers their deaths in crime alley. That's all. Even Batman The Animated series and Mask of the Phantasm covered bits and pieces of Bruce's buildup to becoming Batman. In most other Batman productions we are dropped in the adventure of an established Batman. Before Batman Begins Batmans origins had never been covered at length or in depth before (outside of comics). It was a totally fresh approach to take.
With Superman the opposite is true. Out of all the big Superman projects the one that covers his origin in the least detail is Lois and Clark and even it did more than most Batman stuff. AOS, STM, and STAS all executed the origin brilliantly. I guess because you never really needed to explain Batman as much since the concept is more plausible. Superman's origin is a great sci fi tale before we even see him. But it's old ground.
To me Batman Begins felt like Batmans STM. Its the film that a lot of fans wanted to see that really delved into the characters rich mythology. Batman had never had that.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jun 23, 2013 17:22:17 GMT -5
Very true.... I wonder if honestly the best way we'd see a TRULY great telling of Superman's life story would be in an "HBO" style format, where you could take your time with backstory and character---- but have a SOLID and STEADY direction. If "Game of Thrones" can be just about as epic as "Lord of the Rings" on cable fx-wise and locationwise, why couldn't a Superman story do the same?
Originally, movies seemed to be the only way to get great fx spectacle, and tv the best way to get character stories.... but nowadays, it seems like it's not impossible for premium cable to offer both. ((Smallville I consider one of the great missed opportunities, although it redeemed itself somewhat by becoming a sampler "Brave and the Bold"))
But- good/bad, Superman is too big for the small screen, it looks like....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 17:25:42 GMT -5
Begins. It's just a far more rounded, better paced story and my favourite of those films. In saying that if they actually carried the tone of those films to the Superman franchise I would have been gutted.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 23, 2013 17:28:58 GMT -5
CAM, I'd love a world of Krypton movie or miniseries one day. It doesn't even matter to me if its in the MOS continuity.
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Post by EnriqueH on Jun 23, 2013 17:31:46 GMT -5
I really don't know if a Krypton story could be told at this point. Even if it's the best thing ever written, Superman's origin has been retold over and over so many times that it's cliche at this point.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jun 23, 2013 17:47:13 GMT -5
I mean going way back and in much more detail. Jor El and Zod would just be the tip of the iceberg. Like who is Rao? He's been seen as their god in some incarnations but lets get into that. Some could turn away from him and embrace science while others still believe. There is stuff like the Eradicator and the Cleric and the wars the planet has been involved in. Lets get into their history as a people. What about Kryptonian civil wars? We could even use the House of El as the thru line to tell the story. It might work even better as a regular tv series.
WB would never have the balls to try something so different any time soon though.
I always thought one of SRs blown opportunities was to teach us more about Krypton. Lex said he had advanced technology to take on the military? Dammit THAT'S the movie Id want to see. What would machines of war based on Kryptonian crystal technology look like? Tanks? Airships? Firearms? Woulda been cool to see Superman take on the might of his own planet.
I'd love to see a comic or animated movie or something get into the parts of the Reeve film universe that we never saw. But again WB wouldn't put the work into making it happen.
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Post by Jack Tripper on Jun 24, 2013 2:05:10 GMT -5
MOS for me. Honestly, I just never really cared for the Batman character. I was always a fan of super powered super heroes, not revenge seeking vigilantes. If someone gave me the choice of watching Superman IV or Batman Begins, I'd always pick Superman IV. For me, the worst Superman movie is still more entertaining than the best Batman movie. The Nolan Batman trilogy is devoid of any fun or enjoyment. Those movies are a chore to watch.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Jun 24, 2013 2:56:24 GMT -5
BB is the superior film for me. I was genuinely surprised how much I enjoyed it
MOS > than the 2 TDK films though - easily.
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Kirok
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Post by Kirok on Sept 2, 2013 19:56:51 GMT -5
Batman Begins.
Ranking the "Nolan" movies I'd probably say:
BB
MOS
TDK
TDKR
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 3, 2013 3:28:16 GMT -5
Batman Begins, easily
Related to Wayne a lot more than Kal.
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Post by Jimbo on Sept 4, 2013 13:31:10 GMT -5
Batman Begins. It started slower and set up a strong foundation for TDK.
Man of Steel shot its wad in its first go. Metropolis was leveled in this one, where's to go from here?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 4, 2013 14:15:57 GMT -5
That one's EASY. Gotham city and Wayne Mansion gets leveled in the next one. And Metropolis gets flattened.... again.
(Ironically, I found it interesting how locally we got a bridge built that took 11 years to rebuild, but Metropolis and the Daily Planet seemed to have gotten rebuilt in a few months- if that...)
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MerM
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Post by MerM on Sept 4, 2013 14:18:24 GMT -5
Metropolis was leveled in this one, where's to go from here?   |
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 4, 2013 15:02:36 GMT -5
I think Bay would've made a better MOS.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 4, 2013 16:08:19 GMT -5
I put the DVD of BB on with pretty much "eh" expectation - and I was engrossed within minutes
TDK and especially TDKR though, I do think they are both stupid shit. IMO a typical episode of Bixby's Hulk is far superior (except for production value obviously).
BB to me is a genuinely entertaining film, the only Nolan that's impressed me.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 4, 2013 16:53:35 GMT -5
I really am curious as to how you felt BB and TDK differed. I don't mean that as a criticism, but I thought TDK paid off a lot of what was setup in BB and was an extension- same tone, treatment. (*though TDKR to me was just a complete mess that contradicted what had been established about the character in the first two. ) Can you be more specific as to why you felt BB worked, but TDK blew it?  Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 5, 2013 3:26:27 GMT -5
I just feel the film falls flat; 80% of it is surprisingly boring with too much dialogue. I can't sit through it anymore.
Maybe I'll go into it more another time. I'm at work now!
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 5, 2013 6:36:58 GMT -5
Gotcha. Thanks for sharing. I didn't feel quite the same way (*though I thought TDKR a giant bore with little plausibility), but I think I'm starting to get where you're coming from.
In thinking on it- I'll retract part of my comments earlier.... BB is definitely different in that BB is more adventure/fantasy, whereas TDK I felt was more 'crime drama'- Nolan's said that STM was a major influence on BB.... but that Michael Mann's "Heat" was a major influence on TDK- ("Heat" which I loved, so I am biased).
I thought it took the 'realism' almost as far as you could go with Batman- and have it genuinely as scary as you could get for a pg-13.
Maybe that's why I enjoy both TDK and SR so much- I thought that in many ways it didn't differentiate between an Oscar nominated drama and a summer blockbuster fare--- and had a great balance (most of the time).
But- it is worlds away from Batman Begins and Batman '89, both of which are more fantasy and 'superhero-ish' I suppose. (Not that that's a bad thing, but I thought TDK and SR pushed the limits in ways I enjoyed.)
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 5, 2013 7:37:34 GMT -5
The only part of TDK I liked was the plot to get the chap back from Hong Kong
All the Harvey Dent/Rachel/bent cops/cable car/man with phone in stomach/Gordon's "death"/Bruce almost going public/that chap who figure out Bruce's secret/triangulation of mobile phone signal/ crap bogged it down.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 8:55:31 GMT -5
The only part of TDK I liked was the plot to get the chap back from Hong Kong All the Harvey Dent/Rachel/bent cops/cable car/man with phone in stomach/Gordon's "death"/Bruce almost going public/that chap who figure out Bruce's secret/triangulation of mobile phone signal/ crap bogged it down. I think we're in the minority, but yes, absolutely yes. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 5, 2013 12:03:50 GMT -5
Batman Begins. It started slower and set up a strong foundation for TDK. Man of Steel shot its wad in its first go. Metropolis was leveled in this one, where's to go from here? Good point. |
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