Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 5, 2013 12:12:02 GMT -5
The only part of TDK I liked was the plot to get the chap back from Hong Kong All the Harvey Dent/Rachel/bent cops/cable car/man with phone in stomach/Gordon's "death"/Bruce almost going public/that chap who figure out Bruce's secret/triangulation of mobile phone signal/ crap bogged it down. Biggest problem with TDK is the third act drags way too much. It goes on too long and they tried to cram in too much. Between Joker and Two Face it feels bloated. Something needed to be streamlined in there. Dents story easily could have covered TWO movies. That's why I've always said he should have been in Batman Begins. I could have done without Rachel to be honest. Both movies fell into the formulaic love interest trap because I guess they felt obligated to give Wayne one. The animated series got it right by spending several episodes introducing a pre transformation/disfigurement Harvey Dent and giving him a friendship with Wayne so that Dents fall hurt even more. In TDK he admired Harvey for doing what he did in a way Batman couldn't but TAS went a step further. TDKR has the same problems with the bloated third act but its even more weakly written. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 5, 2013 12:20:28 GMT -5
I actually dug all that other stuff - but, yeah, the more I think on it, the more I realize TDK really is much more of a crime drama than a superhero film.... I think I'm getting why you guys didn't care for it vs. BB. Fair enough.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 5, 2013 12:27:31 GMT -5
The movie to me was exhausting- but in a great way. I thought the movie was going to end with the confrontation with the joker in the streets- which I would have been fine with.....but when they kept going, I was thrilled- and I had no clue that they were going to show a shot of Rachel being blown apart for a split second. HOLY shite Batman! To me, it was the equivalent of killing off Gwen Stacey in the Spiderman comics. I thought they'd NEVER cross that line- but once the Joker did, the movie engaged me even more!
The movie became a 'Frank Miller-esque' horrific crime drama- where the Joker was REALLY scary as heck because he was playing upon the worst of society's fears-and I was blown away by it.
Splitting it into two movies could have worked- I don't know, the movie is so relentless that I kind of liked (and was impressed) with what it did as one film.
TDKR, on the other hand, I have a 180 degree response to. Like Spiderman 3, it had a lot of interesting bits that clash with one another and kill any real involvement in the movie for me.
(Though I would have loved it if they would have let Nolan kill off Batman as originally intended, according to Peter David. If Bale was never going to come back, why not?)
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 5, 2013 15:59:20 GMT -5
TDKR is my candidate as most idiotic comic book flick of all time. NOTHING that happens has any logic. I could write an essay on its rampant stupidity. Plus its terminally boring. Its the Matrix Revolutions of the series.
I think people want to like it more than they admit cos of the production values and its more of TDK
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 17:06:45 GMT -5
It's my favorite of the trilogy. I love it.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 5, 2013 18:22:26 GMT -5
I thought TDK and TDKR were both awesome.
Love the fight between Batman and Bane with both of them going at it. Bale really sold that fight. It really looks like he's trying to take Bane down.
I haven't seen TDKR enough to pick up on any flaws, but I've seen TDK several times and I think it's just a kickass movie. Easily one of the best superhero movies ever. Nolan made it look easy to make a great superflick.
I can't believe Bryan Singer couldn't make a great Superman movie. He did such a great job with the first two X-Men movies, particularly with the characters, that I just can't fathom how Superman Returns came out so badly. When you take into account how passionate and enthusiastic he was about the material, it makes it even more confusing how the whole thing went badly.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 5, 2013 18:36:56 GMT -5
TDKR is the weakest film in the trilogy but I also think its the most fun and most comic booky. It's no BB or TDK and its flawed but I like it.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 6, 2013 3:18:19 GMT -5
Including the part where he threw those childish fireworks at him?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 3:25:35 GMT -5
Including the part where he threw those childish fireworks at him? It's basically the same as every other big screen fight. The last fight in the film is one huge anti climax. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 6, 2013 5:15:21 GMT -5
Except for Rocky III!
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 6, 2013 6:29:45 GMT -5
Including the part where he threw those childish fireworks at him? It's basically the same as every other big screen fight. The last fight in the film is one huge anti climax. We're tslking about TDKR, not MOS. |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 6, 2013 7:52:53 GMT -5
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atp
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Post by atp on Sept 6, 2013 7:54:31 GMT -5
As disappointing as MoS was, at least it didn't have a choir of retards chanting this:
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Kirok
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Post by Kirok on Sept 6, 2013 7:56:53 GMT -5
The first Batman/Bane fight was fantastic. The choreography, the dialogue, the palpable futileness of Batman's efforts. Arguably the best hero/villain confrontation in any comic book film.
The second fight, not so much. It starts with a lame non-zinger, "I came back to stop you," and ends with the Bane character who has been built up so mightily being revealed as just the muscle for the true villain of the piece: Talia. Then Catwoman has to come in to save the day and blows Bane away with the Batcycle. Honestly on my first viewing I didn't realized that had killed him. The anticlimactic-ness of it failed to register.
So while the last fight had its moments (Bane going berserk after his mask is damaged and punching through the pillar), the first one set such a high bar it was going to be near impossible to top as it was, and some poor story decisions surrounding round 2 really kept it from matching up with round 1 at all.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 6, 2013 8:44:10 GMT -5
Why didn't Batman shoot him in the kneecaps during the first fight? He went in so poorly equipped that it was almost like a death wish.
Everytime I fancy putting this on I remember the Robin character, Robin figures out who Batman is, lack of Michael Caine, the cops underground, Gordon in hospital, the boring stuff under ground with him watching TV, his severe back injury followed by him doing sit ups, stupid Bane back story, the French girl, Catwoman doing a Han Solo at the end, the crap on the bridge, Robin was an orphan, Gordon's house, the ridiculous stock exchange sequence, the Scarecrow judging people, the whole "poor people will take over Gotham" - an anti-capitalist dream taken to such extremes, there is zero credibility - and then I realise its not worth it.
Film started off well for the first 20 mins or so then descends to outright cack
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Sept 6, 2013 9:26:06 GMT -5
Batman Begins over MOS hands down. If not for the superb structure of BB alone, MOS tried to emulate the flashback style, but the choices made didnt work nearly as well.
Batman Begins and The Prestige are two films that use the non-linear style better than anything I can recall in the past 20 years.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Sept 6, 2013 9:34:12 GMT -5
Batman Begins and The Prestige are two films that use the non-linear style better than anything I can recall in the past 20 years. Memento...ahem... |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on Sept 6, 2013 9:43:27 GMT -5
Pulp Fiction was 19 years ago...  |
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Post by Scissorpuppy on Sept 6, 2013 9:58:22 GMT -5
Ok well, I almost mentioned Memento and it obviously is a great example. The reason I didn't is because I felt like its in its own category, the story being told backwards and all.
I love Pulp Fiction, good call.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 6, 2013 10:57:50 GMT -5
That's because unlike MOS the big TDKR fight wasn't a boring punch punch punch fest over and over again. No drama until the faux drama near the end of the fight in MOS. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 6, 2013 11:03:09 GMT -5
Why didn't Batman shoot him in the kneecaps during the first fight? He went in so poorly equipped that it was almost like a death wish. Everytime I fancy putting this on I remember the Robin character, Robin figures out who Batman is, lack of Michael Caine, the cops underground, Gordon in hospital, the boring stuff under ground with him watching TV, his severe back injury followed by him doing sit ups, stupid Bane back story, the French girl, Catwoman doing a Han Solo at the end, the crap on the bridge, Robin was an orphan, Gordon's house, the ridiculous stock exchange sequence, the Scarecrow judging people, the whole "poor people will take over Gotham" - an anti-capitalist dream taken to such extremes, there is zero credibility - and then I realise its not worth it. Film started off well for the first 20 mins or so then descends to outright cack Didn't Bane wear a lot of armored plates on his vest and pants? I swear he had some kind of big pads or plates on his knees. I'll give you the Blake figuring out his secret I'd bit. That still bothers me because it was so lazy and stupid. That's all it took? Really? C'mon Nolan. Blake had never even seen Batman before. Just because Wayne put on a party guy facade doesn't mean he was Batman. Robins always been an orphan though. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 17:08:14 GMT -5
That's because unlike MOS the big TDKR fight wasn't a boring punch punch punch fest over and over again. No drama until the faux drama near the end of the fight in MOS. it was to me. It didn't do anything for me, Bane smashed him as expected. The final battle was as dull as a wet fart, bad ass Bane, taken out by Selina and the Bat pod. I'm sitting there wondering what he's going to do when he gets up, err wait, he's not getting up? They're not bad, but they didn't do anything new. |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Sept 6, 2013 20:09:27 GMT -5
That's because unlike MOS the big TDKR fight wasn't a boring punch punch punch fest over and over again. No drama until the faux drama near the end of the fight in MOS. it was to me. It didn't do anything for me, Bane smashed him as expected. The final battle was as dull as a wet fart, bad ass Bane, taken out by Selina and the Bat pod. I'm sitting there wondering what he's going to do when he gets up, err wait, he's not getting up? They're not bad, but they didn't do anything new. Batman still got "smashed" though. That first fight wasn't a stalemate. Batman was clearly outmatched. Anyone who read the comics knew what was coming but it was a first on screen. MOS's best city was the one in Smalville |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Sept 9, 2013 11:17:24 GMT -5
I'm with you for ALL of that + the stupid over-the-top voice for Bane.
TDKR is HHHHHORRIBLE.
Bottom line: I agree- the credibility of the story wasn't there for me.... and many of the scenes just didn't seem in character nor plausible.
(*Oddly, I worship at the altar of TDK, though.
Except for some editing transitions (or lack of), I thought everything worked great in TDK.... and thought it deserved the rumored nod for Best Pic at the Oscars.)
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Post by EnriqueH on Sept 9, 2013 13:33:41 GMT -5
I need to see DKR again.
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