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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 12:14:17 GMT -5
They did, but I'm not sure why any of it is relevant. You've invented this scenario where Cavill was supposed to become a superstar off the back of MOS and compared it to other actors who's lifes changed, only those other actors did it in films far better than MOS, in a different genre at a different time. It's a bit pointless, but then when you want to knock MOS you've got to find as many different ways as possible  |
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 17, 2013 12:25:04 GMT -5
What Kris said. ATP's basically comparing Man of Steel to fucking Titanic and Gladiator. One a monster box office success and the other an instant classic that brought back the sword and sandal genre. All of us here can admit that Man of Steel did neither of these, so how the heck is Cavill's career going to explode like that, let alone in one month of its release? I see the point ATP is making, but he has to dramatically exaggerate to make it.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 17, 2013 12:28:02 GMT -5
How can Cavill's career explode if the movie has only been out for a month?............. Uhh...that was the point I've made. It's about more than just future jobs hes going to get but we'd know already if Cavill was getting rave reviews and people were talking about him non stop. They aren't. He hasn't. People have said he was good but they aren't raving about him. Whereas with Downey people were saying how amazing he was in Iron Man. Downey was more well know than Cavill but he wasn't a huge star either. I said it would probably be more like Jackman were it took a few more films for people to get to know him. There are other examples of guys who made huge movies and made a big splash. Also Robert Downey Jr was a fallen star who got his life together and career resurrected. Different circumstances. Robert Downey Jr was always charming, but the one thing he wasn't was a box office draw. Now, he has that for sure. He's a megastar now. Bigger than Tom Cruise, right now....only except RDJ doesn't take the same roles as Cruise. But like Metallo said, Cavill's career will probably follow Jackman's path and it took Jackman quite a few years to expand his range and become a real actor. On screen, anyway. |
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Post by atp on Jul 17, 2013 12:31:37 GMT -5
Um... Why should MoS not have been as good as Titanic or Gladiator?
How many years have we waited for it? How much money went into it? How many big names were attached to it?
If STM managed to become a classic, why not MoS?
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 17, 2013 12:33:40 GMT -5
Um... Why should MoS not have been as good as Titanic or Gladiator? How many years have we waited for it? How much money went into it? How many big names were attached to it? If STM managed to become a classic, why not MoS? Because you expected it to be a classic. I didn't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 12:39:17 GMT -5
Here's a thread that will probably give a few folk a heart attack forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461303Amazing how different these things turn out when it's not an a forum built on the love of the original films. Like I said ATP, STM was a better film, it was also the first of it's kind which is HUGE in terms of it's status, so let's not pretend that doesn't matter. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 12:44:25 GMT -5
Yeah, but he hardly has a memorable role outside of Superman at the end of the da, and as to how successful other films would have been with him in the lead role. That's all if's and buts. Reeve did have an advantage of a better film, better director and the fact he was the first to play such a character in a big budget movie too. Let's not pretend that doesn't make a difference. Cavill and Craig, I'm not seeing that atall. Was Imortals an epic? I hardly knew about it till it was in cinemas! And by all means it's not a great film, Layer cake is, Craig had some good roles and much more experience, so again I'm not seeing how it's a fair comparison when he's already made his name in some excellent films. Also factor in he was playing the much loved James Bond whereas Cavill took on the role of Superman, a guy people were pretty much sick of after SR. That's down to his choices not what the role did for him. That's the topic at hand. Sure it made a difference but its not like he was the first guy to make a HUGE impact in the role either. George Reeves shadow loomed large yet Reeve still made his own mark. When Adam West took the role of Batman what was one factor in his consideration? George Reeves. West has said so. Immortals was a fantasy epic picture. It just failed because it wasnt good enough to interest people. People on THIS BOARD were talking about it when Cavill got cast as Superman because they wanted to know how good he was in it. Not everyone was sick of Superman after Returns. SR made some money despite what some people say. Smallville went on for years afterwards. WB has been making various animated projects. If people were sick of Superman none of fhat stuff would have made money or got made. Superman: Doomsday was a big seller for WB animation. SR just had a lukewarm reception and people just wondered if he was relevant. But people said the same thing about Bond at VARIOUS times. DAD made a lot of money but a LOT of people wondered if that Bond was still relevant in a post Sept. 11 world. That's probably partly why we got the reboot. They're both loved characters. If Superman wasnt a beloved character you wouldn't see the divisiveness on MOS. A lot of people thought DAD was crap despite Bond also being a beloved character. Both are iconic though. Craig was in good films but how many of them were smash hits and how many of them were people going to see because of him? Not many. Craig was a lesser known actor pre Bond just like Cavill was pre Man of Steel. Cavill was also in a few good films pre MOS. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 12:47:22 GMT -5
Here's a thread that will probably give a few folk a heart attack forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461303Amazing how different these things turn out when it's not an a forum built on the love of the original films. Like I said ATP, STM was a better film, it was also the first of it's kind which is HUGE in terms of it's status, so let's not pretend that doesn't matter. Superherohype boards are also a mess of discussion at times. I know cause I post there. That doesn't really show much of anything either way. Plus a lot of the 15 year olds there always jump on the bandwagon of anything new. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 12:51:10 GMT -5
Um... Why should MoS not have been as good as Titanic or Gladiator? How many years have we waited for it? How much money went into it? How many big names were attached to it? If STM managed to become a classic, why not MoS? Because you expected it to be a classic. I didn't. And that's the problem with WBs DC films. Why Marvel has stomped their ass as far as quality and quantity. They should be shooting for something better but they aren't because they know people are willing to settle. Some of us might not have expected a classic but that doesn't change the question of why didn't WB try to make a better film? We know the answer and we know the problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 12:52:42 GMT -5
Here's a thread that will probably give a few folk a heart attack forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461303Amazing how different these things turn out when it's not an a forum built on the love of the original films. Like I said ATP, STM was a better film, it was also the first of it's kind which is HUGE in terms of it's status, so let's not pretend that doesn't matter. Superherohype boards are also a mess of discussion at times. I know cause I post there. That doesn't really show much of anything either way. Plus a lot of the 15 year olds there always jump on the bandwagon of anything new. Yeah, and a lot of the guys on here were probably the 15 year old equivalent of them when STM came out! or now they're old timers and don't want any new Superman. It does show that opinions differ vastly when it's not being discussed on a forum that is made up of people who are all HUGE films of the original films, which was all I was showing. You get a lot of ridiculous discussion on that forum, but to be honest most of it isn't any less retarded than a lot of what has cropped up on here with regards to MOS. |
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Post by atp on Jul 17, 2013 12:56:32 GMT -5
I would love to know what the MoS actors really think of the final product. Cavill seems too intelligent to truly believe some of the stuff he says while toeing the official line. I wonder if he is really happy with it.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 12:56:48 GMT -5
Superherohype boards are also a mess of discussion at times. I know cause I post there. That doesn't really show much of anything either way. Plus a lot of the 15 year olds there always jump on the bandwagon of anything new. Yeah, and a lot of the guys on here were probably the 15 year old equivalent of them when STM came out! or now they're old timers and don't want any new Superman. It does show that opinions differ vastly when it's not being discussed on a forum that is made up of people who are all HUGE films of the original films, which was all I was showing. You get a lot of ridiculous discussion on that forum, but to be honest most of it isn't any less retarded than a lot of what has cropped up on here with regards to MOS. Difference is despite many here on this Superman movie board being fans of the films most here are much more objective discussing this stuff than many at SHH are. And lets not forget The Hype boards are still superhero movie boards with fans with their own biases. Not that far off from Superman. It even has its own Superman movie section. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 12:59:46 GMT -5
Broad generalization. From what I've read I personally think there's a number who have no objectivity whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 13:01:09 GMT -5
I would love to know what the MoS actors really think of the final product. Cavill seems too intelligent to truly believe some of the stuff he says while toeing the official line. I wonder if he is really happy with it. Yeah it's impossible that he genuinely liked the final product because you didn't. I'd love to know what was going through Reeve's mind when he was promoting SIV, oh wait, he was the lead in the film and it was part of his job to promote it! |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 13:04:04 GMT -5
I would love to know what the MoS actors really think of the final product. Cavill seems too intelligent to truly believe some of the stuff he says while toeing the official line. I wonder if he is really happy with it. They're doing their job selling the film. If they do have some criticisms we won't know for years after the fact. That's just the nature of the business. And I'm sure Cavill enjoys the money and the opportunists the film might bring him. I think he even said he'd take the money in money projects over not making money on great films. Can't blame him for that since most actors do that. If he's smart he'll try to do what Bale and even Reeve tried to do. Use the blockbusters to get smaller more personal films made. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 13:06:21 GMT -5
Broad generalization. From what I've read I personally think there's a number who have no objectivity whatsoever. Some maybe but not most. I've posted here for years too and most people are pretty objective. We aren't all twelve so that can help. I also post at the hype and some ridiculous shit comes up there much more often than it does here even when you compare the two boards pound for pound. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 13:09:08 GMT -5
Broad generalization. From what I've read I personally think there's a number who have no objectivity whatsoever. Some maybe but not most. I've posted here for years too and most people are pretty objective. We aren't all twelve so that can help. I also post at the hype and some ridiculous shit comes up there much more often than it does here even when you compare the two boards pound for pound. I only read the hype but it's littered with shit for sure. It's just my personal opinion, but to me there are a fair few who don't have objectivity here, I can generally tell from the points made and the general tone of posts to decide whether they were truly objective or pre-programmed so dislike something. I think most on here are objective and post well thought out criticism to be fair, but there are definitely prominent posters who masquerade as objective people who clearly aren't. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 14:50:21 GMT -5
I've said it before, but Routh isn't a man to mock or be pitied. He got a huge role, made a lot of money to do it (at least it was a lot compared to what he was making tending bar in a bowling alley), and it lead to other jobs. While they weren't as prolific, I'm sure he was told the same thing every heroic lead has been told: immediately do something completely different to avoid typecasting. He was incredibly smart to take on much different characters from Superman. He could have done fine on "Partners" as a gay male nurse because he underplayed the part and didn't do the role as the stereotypical flaming gay man. The cancellation of that show is hardly his failure. The show just wasn't funny. Outside of his career, he's got a hot wife, and they just had their first child.
Dude's doing fine, probably better than some of us, definitely better than me. How can anyone consider him a failure? I'd love to meet the guy at a convention, because he seems like he didn't let his big break and Hollywood experience turn him into someone else. He seems like an all right guy.
From what I've seen from Cavill, he seems like a cool dude as weel. He did an interview with Nightline and came off a bit desperate sounding by the way he lamented losing Superman 10 years ago and then losing Bond to Craig. Seemed like he really wanted to snag the lead in a major franchise. If Superman doesn't pan out beyond one more movie, I'd still love to see him to Bond. Unfortunately, Wilson and Broccoli will likely go for an unknown once Craig decides to step down.
And I'd argue that "L.A. Confidential" made Crowe a star, but "Gladiator" made him a mega star. Who didn't love Wendell "Bud" White kicking the shit out of woman-beaters?
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Post by ye5man on Jul 17, 2013 15:14:24 GMT -5
Bud White is easily my fave Crowe character.
What makes you say that?
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Post by Shane on Jul 17, 2013 16:00:15 GMT -5
ye5man have you seen romper stomper with crowe?
if not well worth a watch one of his best performances imo
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Post by ye5man on Jul 17, 2013 16:15:15 GMT -5
I saw that years ago, before I seen him in anything else. I remember the Asian kids in the subway and the plot turn where the chap gets off with Crowe's girl (or the other way round). I got the DVD somewhere; one of those things I've never gotten round to seeing again. I ought to watch Gladiator again, its been donkey's years.
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 17:14:03 GMT -5
Bud White is easily my fave Crowe character. What makes you say that? Yeah LA confidential is a little underrated as far as Crowe's career because Gladiator overshadowed it. But it's a great movie. That's the Russell Crowe I became a huge fan of. Not the guy doing some of the more recent stuff. As for Bond I think if Cavill becomes a huge star (because of Superman or not) Wilson and Broccoli won't want him either. He'd be too famous and when has Eon gone after someone too famous? At most they sign lesser stars or tv stars who have done roles similar to Bond. It's all about moulding the new guy into a new take on Bond as well as having someone they can bargain with. A big star will have too much clout for EON to be in the better bargaining position. They're just now willing to work with a slightly more well director like Mendes. Bonds their cash cow. They've always been somewhat controlling about everything. I'm guessing Moore might be the most internationally famous/successful guy to start out in the Bond role (between Maverick, the Persuaders, and The Saint) and even he wasn't mega famous or successful. I guess Brosnan might be close but he was stuck in a lot of B movies after Remington Steele. Dalton was respected but he'd done a lot of not so successful film and tv stuff before Bond. Craig was in some big good movies but I don't think most were huge hits and he wasn't always the star. He was a lesser known actor. |
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Post by Shane on Jul 17, 2013 17:17:32 GMT -5
metallo lives to argue
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Post by Metallo on Jul 17, 2013 17:23:36 GMT -5
Dude in not arguing with anyone. Just making some observations. Brad brought up the point and Ye5man asked why and I'm just saying why I agree with Brad. |
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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 17, 2013 18:16:37 GMT -5
Although Reeve barely had success outside of Superman, he really didn't need to since he DEFINES Superman for millions of people. Everyone else is just the guy taking over the mantle. Nobody has been able to definitively make that role their own the way Reeve did.
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