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Post by EnriqueH on Jul 18, 2013 21:55:32 GMT -5
MoS has been out -what? A month? Fifth week? And already enrique has surpassed ATP with the sheer number of butthurt threads. ATP is probably still a bit ahead with the number of "thau/try/cgi" posts, but not for long. Its impressive actually. ATP has had over ten years to craft his "please mr thau" and related quips to a fine art. No matter the thread or topic. And He has had 7 years to "SR is crap" the internet to death. But in a scant 5 weeks enrique has made him look like a piker. We all have our "thing". Jim is the grammar police, I'm all about boobies, kev is the comic, etc etc. So its fine that enrique has a fixation. But he's already got "you're all pussies". He's got his trademark. Fucks sake. Now he's just being greedy. "You're all pussies, now I'm off to cry at 'TITANIC' cause that's what men do! Pussies! Also- something....something...man of steel...." |
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Shane
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Post by Shane on Jul 19, 2013 1:42:03 GMT -5
MoS has been out -what? A month? Fifth week? And already enrique has surpassed ATP with the sheer number of butthurt threads. ATP is probably still a bit ahead with the number of "thau/try/cgi" posts, but not for long. Its impressive actually. ATP has had over ten years to craft his "please mr thau" and related quips to a fine art. No matter the thread or topic. And He has had 7 years to "SR is crap" the internet to death. But in a scant 5 weeks enrique has made him look like a piker. We all have our "thing". Jim is the grammar police, I'm all about boobies, kev is the comic, etc etc. So its fine that enrique has a fixation. But he's already got "you're all pussies". He's got his trademark. Fucks sake. Now he's just being greedy. "You're all pussies, now I'm off to cry at 'TITANIC' cause that's what men do! Pussies! Also- something....something...man of steel...." great post |
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Post by atp on Jul 19, 2013 2:28:01 GMT -5
As "bad" as Supergirl is, Helen Slater is hotter than Amy Adams, Hart Bochner has more personality than Henry Cavill, Faye Dunaway is more menacing and powerful than Michael Shannon, and it actually has *JIMMY* Olsen rather than Jenny Olsen. Oh, and uh, it has Peter Cook and Peter O'Toole. There's more passion in Peter O'Toole's pinkie than the entire MOS cast combined. And that I can *ZIP ZAP* and I'M GONE!!!! Jenny Olsen. I can't believe they actually considered that crap. Thankfully someone was smart enough to realize how stupid and pointless it was the first place. Yeah I know Jimmy is a minor character but there was no reason to lop his cock off. The movie already had plenty of strong female characters. There were other female character they could pluck from the comics if they wanted another woman at the Daily Planet. It was a prime example of changing things just to change them. But I give Snyder credit for realizing how stupid it was and not going through with it. How come there was no room for Jimmy in MoS yet there was room for Jenny and Lomtard? |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 10:18:55 GMT -5
Jenny probably WAS Jimmy (as a Starbuck like gender swap) but they changed it during production. The girl that plays Jenny would answer questions on her character pretty vaguely by saying her character "evolved" during production. They probably realized how pointless it was and how making jimmy a broad would change his character a little. It's one case where they can't say it wouldn't make a difference. Jimmy might be a minor character but he's one of the most well known and longest running minor characters around today. People have a good idea of who he is and what to expect. MOS had a lot of strong female characters so the "diversity" excuse doesn't work.
Making Q young made sense to me. Making Perry Black I understand. It doesn't change his function in the story ( just like Felix in a few Bond films) and his race really doesn't make a difference either way. Making Jimmy a chick? Why? What was the point? It would change some things and not necessarily for the better. I think Snyder and co realized that at some stage.
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Post by eccentricbeing on Jul 19, 2013 10:51:28 GMT -5
I don't think Jenny was ever "Jimmy" and if she was, it was in a very old draft. But it's just speculation.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 11:30:29 GMT -5
At one point I think she was but like you said it never got past the scripting stage and maybe they never filmed it that way. If the character wasn't something different I don't know why the actress would say the character "changed and evolved" during production. Lombard IS a comic book character so its unusual that they would round out the Daily Planet cast with one obscure character fans only would know then make up a new girl out thin air for no reason. Snyder changed a lot of status quo visual stuff to fit his vision so changing Jimmy would be in line with that.
If the Jenny character was never intended to be a female Jimmy Olsen I don't see why the actress didn't answer with a simple "yes" or "no" or "I don't know." Nobody involved has given a straight answer and even if they said it wasn't that doesn't mean it wasn't. Snyder's been known to change major stuff in adaptations before so I would t be shocked if he OR Goyer changed Jimmy to something he preferred for his vision at one point.
Blade wasn't a half vampire before the movie but here we are. Romero zombies weren't sprinters in the original DOTD but its that way for the remake.
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Post by atp on Jul 19, 2013 11:34:42 GMT -5
They also made the dragonfly (H'raka) a female.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 11:48:55 GMT -5
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 19, 2013 11:51:12 GMT -5
Why did Perry take so long to announce, "All right people, we're leaving. We're leaving the building now!"?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 12:03:06 GMT -5
David Goyer and Zack Snyder  |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 19, 2013 14:38:17 GMT -5
Why did Perry take so long to announce, "All right people, we're leaving. We're leaving the building now!"? Well, in about 3 out the 17 most recent MoS threads it was discussed. They are the last to leave as it is there JOB to stay in danger and cover the news. Same reason reporters get embedded in the front line, or stand outside in a hurricane. Or mingle in a mob/protest. But that's a reasonable/obvious answere to needless question. If perry said "we'll stay as long as we can- we're reporters! Let's do our job!" You would say "why did goyer spoonfeed us? We KNOW they're reporters?" The word "hope" is uttered TWICE, and you act like they say it every other sentence= "Goyer over-writes" A careful analasys shows that superman did NOT kill anyone (other than zod) and tried valiantly to mitigate damage, which visibly pains him= "Lazy writing, they should have made it more clear". |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 19, 2013 14:45:09 GMT -5
I don't think Jenny was ever "Jimmy" and if she was, it was in a very old draft. But it's just speculation. Eeexxxxaaaaaaaaaaactly. She was not "olsen", the earliest she would have maybe been an olsen and switched was well before filming began. Its hilarious to me when blogs and articles say "its ok that green lantern is gay/its ok that perry is black/ gender-orientation-ethnic changes are a-ok.....as long as its not jimmy" Sides which- jimmy himself originates outside the comics, as do many characters and elements that became associated in the comics. Crystals, kryptonite, chloe, to name a few. I'm totally fine with jenny, its ok to have new peripheral characters. |
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Post by atp on Jul 19, 2013 14:55:40 GMT -5
The word "hope" is uttered TWICE, and you act like they say it every other sentence= "Goyer over-writes" . Actually, I counted at least four times. Maybe even more. But regardless, the way two of them are repeated in particular is pretty lame and cringeworthy. "Not if you give them hope. That's what this symbol means. The symbol of the house of El means hope." That line is very reminiscent of: "Their treasure wasn't gold, it was knowledge. Knowledge was their treasure." |
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 15:12:09 GMT -5
I don't think Jenny was ever "Jimmy" and if she was, it was in a very old draft. But it's just speculation. Eeexxxxaaaaaaaaaaactly. She was not "olsen", the earliest she would have maybe been an olsen and switched was well before filming began. Its hilarious to me when blogs and articles say "its ok that green lantern is gay/its ok that perry is black/ gender-orientation-ethnic changes are a-ok.....as long as its not jimmy" Sides which- jimmy himself originates outside the comics, as do many characters and elements that became associated in the comics. Crystals, kryptonite, chloe, to name a few. I'm totally fine with jenny, its ok to have new peripheral characters. Like I said it changed at some point during the production. But why be stupid enough to change it in the first place for no reason? Even as she is "Jenny" is a pretty worthless character that adds nothing to the film except to be a character building device for Perry White for one scene. She's a prime example of some of the writing failures of this film when it comes to the scenes of peril. Even McClure had more of a character and better writing for a minor part in STM. It didn't seem like he was JUST there to get saved later on at the Hoover Dam. His interactions with the other characters actually helped flesh them out while Jimmy got to have personality. Making Perry black isnt the same as making Jimmy a woman in the film. The film already had multiple female characters. The film wasnt as diverse culturally. I could at least see the reason. Making Perry black doesn't really affect how the other characters are going to interact with him. Making jimmy a girl will. Will audiences really be as comfortable with Perry White yelling a cute young girl? Jimmy works better as the lovable goof of a character who means well if he's a guy. the guy who is looking to impress the ladies by being a hotshot photographer (or lying about it). That's not going to be as strong is Jimmy is a chick. "She" would worry about certain kinds of popularity. Every dud in the newsroom would be trying to fuck "Jenny" |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 15:18:47 GMT -5
Plus if Jimmy was a "she" would she think Clark is cute? Totally changes the father/son big brother/younger brother relationship Clark/Superman and Jimmy have. Any Potential crush on Supergirl or Lucy Lane is going to be pretty different if those two characters ever enter the MOS world whereas before his relasbionships provided some of Jimmy's most entertning moments. Jimmy as a comic sidekick/buddy just works better as a guy. Not just with Superman but with Perry and Lois too.
Race swap and gender swap dont bring the same issues as far as the character.
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Post by MerM on Jul 19, 2013 18:59:41 GMT -5
Quick question about the Jimmy/Jenny thing - is there a good reason people are complaining about it? A better reason than "it's different from the comics, bawwww", at least?
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 19:18:32 GMT -5
Well she's NOT Jimmy in the finished film so there's nothing to complain about in that regard. But the initial idea irked me because its one if those pointless changes where despite what people say the change does affect the character and how the character fits into the story. Making M a woman in the bond films had a reason behind it and it was a smart one.
As it is now I don't care for the Jenny character because she's a flat empty character we're suddenly supposed to be fearful for near the end of the film. When McClure's Jimmy was in trouble at the end if STM it worked better because he was a character we like and got to know little. Jimmy had a developed personality and we got to see his relationships with the other characters. Films now often do a shitty job developing the secondary characters. It's something we've seen over and over in recent years. Prometheus was just as guilty of this problem.
I've never given a shit if the character is different as long as there is a reason or its well done. Thats why the new Q in Skyfall didn't bother me one bit despite how much I loved Desmond Llewellyn's work as Q
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 19:23:40 GMT -5
Well she's NOT Jimmy in the finished film so there's nothing to complain about in that regard. But the initial idea irked me because its one if those pointless changes where despite what people say the change does affect the character and how the character fits into the story. Making M a woman in the bond films had a reason behind it and it was a smart one. As it is now I don't care for the Jenny character because she's a flat empty character we're suddenly supposed to be fearful for near the end of the film. When McClure's Jimmy was in trouble at the end if STM it worked better because he was a character we like and got to know little. Jimmy had a developed personality and we got to see his relationships with the other characters. Films now often do a shitty job developing the secondary characters. It's something we've seen over and over in recent years. Prometheus was just as guilty of this problem. I've never given a shit if the character is different as long as there is a reason or its well done. Thats why the new Q in Skyfall didn't bother me one bit despite how much I loved Desmond Llewellyn's work as Q I mentioned this exact same thing in a previous thread. I totally agree with that, which is why it makes it all the more baffling that the chuckle brothers perceive me to be Zack Snyder in disguise on here! |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 19, 2013 19:27:00 GMT -5
The word "hope" is uttered TWICE, and you act like they say it every other sentence= "Goyer over-writes" . Actually, I counted at least four times. Maybe even more. But regardless, the way two of them are repeated in particular is pretty lame and cringeworthy. "Not if you give them hope. That's what this symbol means. The symbol of the house of El means hope." That line is very reminiscent of: "Their treasure wasn't gold, it was knowledge. Knowledge was their treasure." ....sigh. What I mean is- Jor explains it ONCE to clark/kal. Kal/superman explains it ONCE to lois. End of the "hope" discussion. In the classic star wars, how many time did obi-wan, yoda, vader and palpatine "explain" the force to luke? Like a hundred. And then luke "explains" it to liea. And the prequels? Pfft. Just a comparison. Man of steel establishes that the house of El was culturally important and, in its better days, influential. In the original, Jor tells Kal he is from krypton. Superman tells lois he is from krypton. He even tells her its a "K" - as if krypton used the same alphabet. In SII, Jor tells superman the chamber takes away his powers. Later superman tells lex that the chamber takes away powers. I lost track of how many times zod says "kneel". Does perry like being called "chief" ? Lois sure screams a lot. Like ...a LOT of chain smoking "hghghghghggeeeeLLLLLLLLLLLLP-P-P!" Is jimmy proud of that new camera? Is clark here for a "REE-ZUNN"? Is it "forbidden" ? Or is it "forbidden ...forbidden...forbidden"? What makes a good investment? Could it be..."land" ? Where did they come from? Was it "hoo-stun" ? I think it was "hoo-stun". What is zods goal? Is it to rule? I think its to...make snow-cones...wait! No. Its to "rule". Finally. Kneel while you're at it. Rule and kneel and rule and finally and rule. Kneel. Bitch. Wait! No. He never says bitch. Is lex still after beach front property? Cuba? Are terrorists terrible? Why are they called terrorists? Is it cause they're terrible? Golly, that's terrible. Maybe that's why they're called terrorists. I don't recall you kvetching about that being "repetitive". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 19:35:10 GMT -5
Actually, I counted at least four times. Maybe even more. But regardless, the way two of them are repeated in particular is pretty lame and cringeworthy. "Not if you give them hope. That's what this symbol means. The symbol of the house of El means hope." That line is very reminiscent of: "Their treasure wasn't gold, it was knowledge. Knowledge was their treasure." ....sigh. What I mean is- Jor explains it ONCE to clark/kal. Kal/superman explains it ONCE to lois. End of the "hope" discussion. In the classic star wars, how many time did obi-wan, yoda, vader and palpatine "explain" the force to luke? Like a hundred. And then luke "explains" it to liea. And the prequels? Pfft. Just a comparison. Man of steel establishes that the house of El was culturally important and, in its better days, influential. In the original, Jor tells Kal he is from krypton. Superman tells lois he is from krypton. He even tells her its a "K" - as if krypton used the same alphabet. In SII, Jor tells superman the chamber takes away his powers. Later superman tells lex that the chamber takes away powers. I lost track of how many times zod says "kneel". Does perry like being called "chief" ? Lois sure screams a lot. Like ...a LOT of chain smoking "hghghghghggeeeeLLLLLLLLLLLLP-P-P!" Is jimmy proud of that new camera? Is clark here for a "REE-ZUNN"? Is it "forbidden" ? Or is it "forbidden ...forbidden...forbidden"? What makes a good investment? Could it be..."land" ? Where did they come from? Was it "hoo-stun" ? I think it was "hoo-stun". What is zods goal? Is it to rule? I think its to...make snow-cones...wait! No. Its to "rule". Finally. Kneel while you're at it. Rule and kneel and rule and finally and rule. Kneel. Bitch. Wait! No. He never says bitch. Is lex still after beach front property? Cuba? Are terrorists terrible? Why are they called terrorists? Is it cause they're terrible? Golly, that's terrible. Maybe that's why they're called terrorists. I don't recall you kvetching about that being "repetitive". Boom! Headshot! |
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Post by Jor-L5150 on Jul 19, 2013 19:43:15 GMT -5
Well she's NOT Jimmy in the finished film so there's nothing to complain about in that regard. But the initial idea irked me because its one if those pointless changes where despite what people say the change does affect the character and how the character fits into the story. Making M a woman in the bond films had a reason behind it and it was a smart one. As it is now I don't care for the Jenny character because she's a flat empty character we're suddenly supposed to be fearful for near the end of the film. When McClure's Jimmy was in trouble at the end if STM it worked better because he was a character we like and got to know little. Jimmy had a developed personality and we got to see his relationships with the other characters. Films now often do a shitty job developing the secondary characters. It's something we've seen over and over in recent years. Prometheus was just as guilty of this problem. I've never given a shit if the character is different as long as there is a reason or its well done. Thats why the new Q in Skyfall didn't bother me one bit despite how much I loved Desmond Llewellyn's work as Q I mentioned this exact same thing in a previous thread. I totally agree with that, which is why it makes it all the more baffling that the chuckle brothers perceive me to be Zack Snyder in disguise on here! I love ya kris- but I disagree. Yes, jimmy is more "familiar" to superman fans so jimmy in peril would be immediately resonating. But- jimmy in peril will NEVER die. Not in a superman movie. EVER. Jimmy in peril is less peril than lois in peril. Lois died ONCE in a superman movie- but superman time warped it out of existence. If they had jimmy in peril, screaming in terror we'd all be groaning about him being enriques's favorite word. But- add a character we've NEVER seen, that we have almost no attachment to, and put her in peril? Anything can happen. Even jimmy was a new, possibly throwaway character once. But we have NO idea if jenny is going live or die. Its NOT about her- as we have no infested concern. Its a moment for perry (in a superb performance from fischbourne) to demonstrate HIS character. That's the point. Maybe it doesn't work for you or others, but I think it works just fine. Perry saving jimmy (or being willing to take risk for jimmy) is a routine episode of "lois and clark". Jimmy was an add-on for the radio show. Chloe was an add-on for smallville. Jenny is an add-on for man of steel. Someday, therell be a superman movie/show, and perry will be a gay asian, and he'll risk his life for an intern named "larry the gimp" and everyone will bitch and moan that perry didn't save "jenny whatsherfuckinname". They'll be fine with perry being a gay asian. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 19:52:19 GMT -5
I mentioned this exact same thing in a previous thread. I totally agree with that, which is why it makes it all the more baffling that the chuckle brothers perceive me to be Zack Snyder in disguise on here! I love ya kris- but I disagree. Yes, jimmy is more "familiar" to superman fans so jimmy in peril would be immediately resonating. But- jimmy in peril will NEVER die. Not in a superman movie. EVER. Jimmy in peril is less peril than lois in peril. Lois died ONCE in a superman movie- but superman time warped it out of existence. If they had jimmy in peril, screaming in terror we'd all be groaning about him being enriques's favorite word. But- add a character we've NEVER seen, that we have almost no attachment to, and put her in peril? Anything can happen. Even jimmy was a new, possibly throwaway character once. But we have NO idea if jenny is going live or die. Its NOT about her- as we have no infested concern. Its a moment for perry (in a superb performance from fischbourne) to demonstrate HIS character. That's the point. Maybe it doesn't work for you or others, but I think it works just fine. Perry saving jimmy (or being willing to take risk for jimmy) is a routine episode of "lois and clark". Jimmy was an add-on for the radio show. Chloe was an add-on for smallville. Jenny is an add-on for man of steel. Someday, therell be a superman movie/show, and perry will be a gay asian, and he'll risk his life for an intern named "larry the gimp" and everyone will bitch and moan that perry didn't save "jenny whatsherfuckinname". They'll be fine with perry being a gay asian. Except it was obvious Jenny wasn't going to die with Perry staying. It was obvious from the beginning that Perry wouldn't leave her. Either I'm a fucking clairvoyant or the scene was utterly predictable. Jenny being an "add on" means jack shit to the conversation. As you said other characters have been added on the point is they were well developed when they WERE PUT IN DANGER. Bill Henderson and Mercy Graves were add on supporting characters too but they were better developed. |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 19:54:57 GMT -5
Well she's NOT Jimmy in the finished film so there's nothing to complain about in that regard. But the initial idea irked me because its one if those pointless changes where despite what people say the change does affect the character and how the character fits into the story. Making M a woman in the bond films had a reason behind it and it was a smart one. As it is now I don't care for the Jenny character because she's a flat empty character we're suddenly supposed to be fearful for near the end of the film. When McClure's Jimmy was in trouble at the end if STM it worked better because he was a character we like and got to know little. Jimmy had a developed personality and we got to see his relationships with the other characters. Films now often do a shitty job developing the secondary characters. It's something we've seen over and over in recent years. Prometheus was just as guilty of this problem. I've never given a shit if the character is different as long as there is a reason or its well done. Thats why the new Q in Skyfall didn't bother me one bit despite how much I loved Desmond Llewellyn's work as Q I mentioned this exact same thing in a previous thread. I totally agree with that, which is why it makes it all the more baffling that the chuckle brothers perceive me to be Zack Snyder in disguise on here! Good job, Kris.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 20:00:15 GMT -5
I mentioned this exact same thing in a previous thread. I totally agree with that, which is why it makes it all the more baffling that the chuckle brothers perceive me to be Zack Snyder in disguise on here! I love ya kris- but I disagree. Yes, jimmy is more "familiar" to superman fans so jimmy in peril would be immediately resonating. But- jimmy in peril will NEVER die. Not in a superman movie. EVER. Jimmy in peril is less peril than lois in peril. Lois died ONCE in a superman movie- but superman time warped it out of existence. If they had jimmy in peril, screaming in terror we'd all be groaning about him being enriques's favorite word. But- add a character we've NEVER seen, that we have almost no attachment to, and put her in peril? Anything can happen. Even jimmy was a new, possibly throwaway character once. But we have NO idea if jenny is going live or die. Its NOT about her- as we have no infested concern. Its a moment for perry (in a superb performance from fischbourne) to demonstrate HIS character. That's the point. Maybe it doesn't work for you or others, but I think it works just fine. Perry saving jimmy (or being willing to take risk for jimmy) is a routine episode of "lois and clark". Jimmy was an add-on for the radio show. Chloe was an add-on for smallville. Jenny is an add-on for man of steel. Someday, therell be a superman movie/show, and perry will be a gay asian, and he'll risk his life for an intern named "larry the gimp" and everyone will bitch and moan that perry didn't save "jenny whatsherfuckinname". They'll be fine with perry being a gay asian. Fair points! But I still felt like the audience were supposed to be concerned for her and it was a little flatter than it should have been because she was never really introduced! As tallo said, Perry was there with her and held her hand so it was certainly obvious that they weren't going to die. But I see what you're saying all the same |
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Post by Metallo on Jul 19, 2013 20:09:36 GMT -5
Exactly. If anything a made up character is just going to make me care LESS. Especially if I know she's not going to die. At best its a trade off and nothing is really gained when its a plastic supporting character. If you are going to kill or threaten to kill a made up character the watch the Avengers. They did it better.
Even Punisher Warzone killed a long time supporting character good guy from the comics so Id never say never on that either. I figured Castle would save him somehow. He didn't.
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