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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 20:39:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry if I hurt you calling films crowd-pleasing, I was not using it as a pejorative, but as its literal definition - films liked by a lot of people. Lol. You didn’t hurt me, bud. Crowd pleasing has nothing to do with the issue though. These films being crowd pleasers or not has no bearing on the discussion. Beyond that though some people would say they were meant to be crowd pleasers. BvS and mos are special effects punch up blockbusters. Don’t see how those aren’t crowd pleasers. They aren’t merchant ivory. They’re popcorn films made to bring in big audiences. Crowd pleasers. The problem is Snyder’s films were designed as crowd pleasers but failed. You don’t spend that much money on movies trying to bring in a niche audiences. So if MOS and BvS failed at their purpose...they failed. Pretty cut and dry. Fair enough. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 20:41:30 GMT -5
Clearly because you you’ve really gone at it when someone disagrees with you trying to prove...something? Yeah. You like his movies. I never said you didn’t. Never said you couldn’t. I don’t wanting to fight either...but you always seem to try to prove something otherwise when other people start talking about these movies. It’s just weird I touched a nerve in you criticizing some other guys movies. You put “fans” in quotation marks like that’s supposed to mean something else. Yeah, I meant something by putting "fans" in quotations. I'm not one of the "fans" clamoring for the change. The end result, Justice League, was a film that appealed to an even narrower audience than its predecessors. "Clearly because you you’ve really gone at it when someone disagrees with you trying to prove...something?" - Can you earnestly say that this does not at all apply to your posts in this thread? Fans are fans dude. If they didn’t like it they have every right to say so. Doesn’t mean they aren’t fans be it movie fans or Superman fans. They paid their hard earned money so yeah they got a say in how they feel. No need to put down people with some double meaning if they didn’t like it. Just say “the fans that didn’t like it.” It’s a lot more respectful since we are just talking about movies. Even then your analysis isn’t even accurate. This was more than just fans clamoring for change. This was the audience not showing up like WB hoped. A major company doesn’t make changes that drastic when some fans don’t like it. They make changes when a lot of people either didn’t like it or didn’t show up. Justice League failed because audiences had enough after BvS and MOS and SS. They were tired of being burned. JL being changed was only a small part of the audience not turning out. It’s the same thing that happens after every crap film in a franchiss. After into darkness people didn’t go to beyond. After MI2 people didn’t go to MI3. After a bunch of terrible transformers movies they didn’t go to the fifth one. JL failed on its opening weekend before most people had even seen it. That was a referendum on the mixed reaction of the previous three movies. Most people aren’t geeks on the internet like me or you who follow any little piece of minutiae. they’re people who don’t pay too much attention to this stuff who just want to see a film and escape for a couple of hours. They’re some dude and his girlfriend. A grandma who is taking her grandkids. A woman who had a hard days work and wants to relax and catch a movie. Some old guy who might have listened to superman on the radio 70 years ago and wanted to see what the fuss was about. Do you think most of these people even know who Zack Snyder is or know about all the behind the scenes turmoil? No. Most people gave mos BvS and SS a try then when they saw the trailers for JL looking like the same kind of movie as those they said...”nope.” That’s what happened. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 20:43:31 GMT -5
Funny enough, Warner Brothers does appear to want to listen to the fans, but hasn't quite courted them yet.
Around the time Superman Returns was released, I heard so many people say "I just want to see some action, give Superman something to punch!" - Man of Steel comes out, and we've got like 50 minutes of punching. And people didn't like it.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 20:52:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I meant something by putting "fans" in quotations. I'm not one of the "fans" clamoring for the change. The end result, Justice League, was a film that appealed to an even narrower audience than its predecessors. "Clearly because you you’ve really gone at it when someone disagrees with you trying to prove...something?" - Can you earnestly say that this does not at all apply to your posts in this thread? Fans are fans dude. No need to put down people with some double meaning if they didn’t like it. Just say the fans that didn’t like it. It’s a lot more respectful since we are just talking about movies. I think we're putting different weight on those quotation marks, it was not a dig, rather saying "Hey, I'm no less fan of the character and the history for liking what Snyder did." See also The Last Jedi - honestly I don't have my finger on the pulse for this one - did the fans love it or hate it? I don't believe there's a ubiquitous opinion for this one, other than "Wow, a lot of Star Wars fans sure were upset about it" and I'm sure Disney is listening and will adjust future installments based on feedback from a segment of their customers. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 20:57:09 GMT -5
Do you think most of these people even know who Zack Snyder is or know about all the behind the scenes turmoil? No. Most people gave mos BvS and SS a try then when they saw the trailers for JL looking like the same kind of movie as those they said...”nope.” That’s what happened. For sure. And for that sliver of a sliver of a fan base that liked BVS and MOS, we're let down as well. I'm a little testy about it now, but give it 10 years and I will find the humor in watching de-moustached Superman and Flash face-plating into Wonder Woman's breasts. At least that's been my experience with Superman 3/Terminator 3/Indiana Jones Crystal Skull/whatever other disappointing sequel I can think of. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 21:03:27 GMT -5
Funny enough, Warner Brothers does appear to want to listen to the fans, but hasn't quite courted them yet. Around the time Superman Returns was released, I heard so many people say "I just want to see some action, give Superman something to punch!" - Man of Steel comes out, and we've got like 50 minutes of punching. And people didn't like it. That’s why I keep saying over and over again they’re looking for superficial excuses because they don’t want to see the real problems. WB doesn’t know what the f*ck they’re doing. SR was dull and poorly executed. The dceu was dull and poorly executed. Green Lantern was a by committe piece of green dog sh!t. they were all about mopey angry characters that people didn’t care about for the most part. You have to make people invest in your characters first and put them in well written stories. It’s why marvel studios is kicking everyone else’s @ss when it comes to these superhero films. People are interested in what happens to those characters. WB just bet on the Superman and Batman brand names or some directors name recognition and assumed they’d make big money. Name one GREAT DC film that a majority of the audience rallied around over the last TWENTY years that wasn’t part of the Dark Knight trilogy. There isn’t one. And they’ve made all kinds of films. Light. Dark. Adult. Kiddie. Practical heavy. Cgi heavy. Well known characters. Unknown characters. They’ve tried it all. With the exception of Nolan all those films over the last twenty years have missed the mark somewhere. It’s because they keep looking at easy excuses like it was too dark or too silly and they aren’t hiring quality people and leaving them alone. They’re simply chasing box office. Nolan was really the only exception because at that time they had Harry Potter and a few other franchises to fall back on and had nothing left to lose after Batman got deep sixed by Batman & Robin. It’s not like they could kill the franchise any deader at that point so they have Nolan a small budget and let him make his movie. And it worked. But they learned all the wrong lessons from the Nolan films because they’re a bunch of dimwit suits. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 21:05:23 GMT -5
Fans are fans dude. No need to put down people with some double meaning if they didn’t like it. Just say the fans that didn’t like it. It’s a lot more respectful since we are just talking about movies. I think we're putting different weight on those quotation marks, it was not a dig, rather saying "Hey, I'm no less fan of the character and the history for liking what Snyder did." See also The Last Jedi - honestly I don't have my finger on the pulse for this one - did the fans love it or hate it? I don't believe there's a ubiquitous opinion for this one, other than "Wow, a lot of Star Wars fans sure were upset about it" and I'm sure Disney is listening and will adjust future installments based on feedback from a segment of their customers. But fans are fans. There’s no need for that. Some people didn’t like it and some people didn’t. Or maybe they’re fans of one movie and not fans of another. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 21:10:51 GMT -5
Do you think most of these people even know who Zack Snyder is or know about all the behind the scenes turmoil? No. Most people gave mos BvS and SS a try then when they saw the trailers for JL looking like the same kind of movie as those they said...”nope.” That’s what happened. For sure. And for that sliver of a sliver of a fan base that liked BVS and MOS, we're let down as well. I'm a little testy about it now, but give it 10 years and I will find the humor in watching de-moustached Superman and Flash face-plating into Wonder Woman's breasts. At least that's been my experience with Superman 3/Terminator 3/Indiana Jones Crystal Skull/whatever other disappointing sequel I can think of. They were trying to get everyone on board and I don’t blame them for that but they should have done that from the start. if they were going to fire Snyder fire him after BvS. Not in the middle of justice league. It should have been whedon or Snyder not both if they had to make a change. In hindsight they should have just let Snyder make it at that point because the movie was doomed any way. At least it would have been consistent and one of them would have had the time to make a finished film. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 21:14:03 GMT -5
Funny enough, Warner Brothers does appear to want to listen to the fans, but hasn't quite courted them yet. Around the time Superman Returns was released, I heard so many people say "I just want to see some action, give Superman something to punch!" - Man of Steel comes out, and we've got like 50 minutes of punching. And people didn't like it. That’s why I keep saying over and over again they’re looking for superficial excuses because they don’t want to see the real problems. WB doesn’t know what the f*ck they’re doing. SR was dull and poorly executed. The dceu was dull and poorly executed. Green Lantern was a by committe piece of green dog sh!t. they were all about mopey angry characters that people didn’t care about for the most part. You have to make people invest in your characters first and put them in well written stories. It’s why marvel studios is kicking everyone else’s @ss when it comes to these superhero films. People are interested in what happens to those characters. WB just bet on the Superman and Batman brand names or some directors name recognition and assumed they’d make big money. Name one GREAT DC film that a majority of the audience rallied around over the last TWENTY years that wasn’t part of the Dark Knight trilogy. There isn’t one. And they’ve made all kinds of films. Light. Dark. Adult. Kiddie. Practical heavy. Cgi heavy. Well known characters. Unknown characters. They’ve tried it all. With the exception of Nolan all those films over the last twenty years have missed the mark somewhere. It’s because they keep looking at easy excuses like it was too dark or too silly and they aren’t hiring quality people and leaving them alone. They’re simply chasing box office. Nolan was really the only exception because at that time they had Harry Potter and a few other franchises to fall back on and had nothing left to lose after Batman got deep sixed by Batman & Robin. It’s not like they could kill the franchise any deader at that point so they have Nolan a small budget and let him make his movie. And it worked. But they learned all the wrong lessons from the Nolan films because they’re a bunch of dimwit suits. I get your greater point and I think we agree on a whole, but Wonder Woman would be one example. Or maybe I just haven't stumbled on a bunch of discussions tearing it apart. Not that there really are a lot of non-Superman or Batman films to pick from. I don't even think I've watched a good chunk of the DC films - like, is there a compelling reason to sit down and watch Steel, Catwoman, or Green Lantern? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 21:18:22 GMT -5
For sure. And for that sliver of a sliver of a fan base that liked BVS and MOS, we're let down as well. I'm a little testy about it now, but give it 10 years and I will find the humor in watching de-moustached Superman and Flash face-plating into Wonder Woman's breasts. At least that's been my experience with Superman 3/Terminator 3/Indiana Jones Crystal Skull/whatever other disappointing sequel I can think of. They were trying to get everyone on board and I don’t blame them for that but they should have done that from the start. if they were going to fire Snyder fire him after BvS. Not in the middle of justice league. It should have been whedon or Snyder not both if they had to make a change. In hindsight they should have just let Snyder make it at that point because the movie was doomed any way. At least it would have been consistent and one of them would have had the time to make a finished film. That would have been ideal. I just checked the timeline and it looks like there was all of but a few weeks in between the release of Batman V Superman and the start of production on Justice League - ew.com/article/2016/02/21/justice-league-starts-april-11/I'd love to see some behind-the-scenes drama/documentary of that time between Snyder and the execs, uncensored. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 21:24:03 GMT -5
That’s why I keep saying over and over again they’re looking for superficial excuses because they don’t want to see the real problems. WB doesn’t know what the f*ck they’re doing. SR was dull and poorly executed. The dceu was dull and poorly executed. Green Lantern was a by committe piece of green dog sh!t. they were all about mopey angry characters that people didn’t care about for the most part. You have to make people invest in your characters first and put them in well written stories. It’s why marvel studios is kicking everyone else’s @ss when it comes to these superhero films. People are interested in what happens to those characters. WB just bet on the Superman and Batman brand names or some directors name recognition and assumed they’d make big money. Name one GREAT DC film that a majority of the audience rallied around over the last TWENTY years that wasn’t part of the Dark Knight trilogy. There isn’t one. And they’ve made all kinds of films. Light. Dark. Adult. Kiddie. Practical heavy. Cgi heavy. Well known characters. Unknown characters. They’ve tried it all. With the exception of Nolan all those films over the last twenty years have missed the mark somewhere. It’s because they keep looking at easy excuses like it was too dark or too silly and they aren’t hiring quality people and leaving them alone. They’re simply chasing box office. Nolan was really the only exception because at that time they had Harry Potter and a few other franchises to fall back on and had nothing left to lose after Batman got deep sixed by Batman & Robin. It’s not like they could kill the franchise any deader at that point so they have Nolan a small budget and let him make his movie. And it worked. But they learned all the wrong lessons from the Nolan films because they’re a bunch of dimwit suits. I get your greater point and I think we agree on a whole, but Wonder Woman would be one example. Or maybe I just haven't stumbled on a bunch of discussions tearing it apart. Not that there really are a lot of non-Superman or Batman films to pick from. I don't even think I've watched a good chunk of the DC films - like, is there a compelling reason to sit down and watch Steel, Catwoman, or Green Lantern? Wonder Woman wasn’t even a great film though. Not IMO. It made a ton of money but a lot of that was because of what it represented culturally. I’m no hard right or left winger but that movie was going to get a lot of hype and get pushed hard just because of what it was. It was good but it was gonna get its praises sung matter what and a lot of people who didn’t like it as much just went along to avoid criticisms and gave it a nice easy pass. The narrative was already constructed. Right down to it being the first female led superhero film. Which wasn’t true. Or the first female led comic book film directed by a woman. Also not true. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 21:33:26 GMT -5
I get your greater point and I think we agree on a whole, but Wonder Woman would be one example. Or maybe I just haven't stumbled on a bunch of discussions tearing it apart. Not that there really are a lot of non-Superman or Batman films to pick from. I don't even think I've watched a good chunk of the DC films - like, is there a compelling reason to sit down and watch Steel, Catwoman, or Green Lantern? Wonder Woman wasn’t even a great film though. Not IMO. It made a ton of money but a lot of that was because of what it represented culturally. I’m no hard right or left winger but that movie was going to get a lot of hype and get pushed hard just because of what it was. It was good but it was gonna get its praises sung matter what and a lot of people who didn’t like it as much just went along to avoid criticisms and gave it a nice easy pass. The narrative was already constructed. Right down to it being the first female led superhero film. Which wasn’t true. Or the first female led comic book film directed by a woman. Also not true. I agree, it was pretty standard. I enjoyed the middle act quite a bit, but intro and finale were a bit of a let down. What was the first female-led comic book film directed by a woman? Are we counting films like Persepolis? Off the top of my head, the only other woman-directed comic book film was one of the Punisher films. I guess I have some learning to do... Still, Ghostbusters 2016 did not get the same pass. It was tough having a conversation about that film with anyone in the real world because people would assume you're just being sexist for not being interested in the film, when it's like no, I don't care for Paul Feig's films. I eventually did watch it, it was pretty boring. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 21:33:28 GMT -5
They were trying to get everyone on board and I don’t blame them for that but they should have done that from the start. if they were going to fire Snyder fire him after BvS. Not in the middle of justice league. It should have been whedon or Snyder not both if they had to make a change. In hindsight they should have just let Snyder make it at that point because the movie was doomed any way. At least it would have been consistent and one of them would have had the time to make a finished film. That would have been ideal. I just checked the timeline and it looks like there was all of but a few weeks in between the release of Batman V Superman and the start of production on Justice League - ew.com/article/2016/02/21/justice-league-starts-april-11/I'd love to see some behind-the-scenes drama/documentary of that time between Snyder and the execs, uncensored. They kept him on because they didn’t feel there was time to fire him. It was a huge mistake scheduling JL so soon after BvS. Didn’t give them time to really make any good choices. That’s what people mean when they say this whole thing was rushed. JL always should have been a late 2018 movie or even 2019. Letting him go that soon would have shown a total lack of faith in not only JL but BvS which was still in theaters. It was a hard choice and I could understand either way. Pushing it back would have put them in competition with some big movies in 2018 and 2019 but they were already in big competition. Snyder and his crew were rewriting and reworking and reshooting that film as they were going along after the reaction BvS got. That’s why even the stuff he did shoot wasn’t very much like the original plan for JL. I’ve heard people say the film may have been reshot twice in a sense and I believe it. Snyder probably reshot a lot himself before whedon ever took over. |
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Post by Metallo on May 5, 2018 21:43:06 GMT -5
Wonder Woman wasn’t even a great film though. Not IMO. It made a ton of money but a lot of that was because of what it represented culturally. I’m no hard right or left winger but that movie was going to get a lot of hype and get pushed hard just because of what it was. It was good but it was gonna get its praises sung matter what and a lot of people who didn’t like it as much just went along to avoid criticisms and gave it a nice easy pass. The narrative was already constructed. Right down to it being the first female led superhero film. Which wasn’t true. Or the first female led comic book film directed by a woman. Also not true. I agree, it was pretty standard. I enjoyed the middle act quite a bit, but intro and finale were a bit of a let down. What was the first female-led comic book film directed by a woman? Are we counting films like Persepolis? Off the top of my head, the only other woman-directed comic book film was one of the Punisher films. I guess I have some learning to do... Still, Ghostbusters 2016 did not get the same "pass," though seriously it was tough having a conversation about that film with anyone in the real world because people would assume you're just being sexist for not being interested in the film, when it's like no, I don't care for Paul Feig's films. I eventually did watch it, it was pretty boring. Ghostbusters did get something of a pass from some people but it wasn't enough to make a difference. Some people went along but most didn’t. They did everything wrong. Remade a beloved film. Tried to spin all the criticisms as sexist when they clearly weren’t. Put out some awful marketing early on. Finally when the film came out it just wasn’t very good. I didn’t find it offensively bad but it was the textbook definition of forgettable and mediocre. Ivan Reitman was the only one to give a real reason why people were upset at the film and Sony basically cut him out of the process. Everyone else tried Sony’s bs strategies. Tank girl starring Lori Petty was directed by a woman. Came out in 1995. There’s also been plenty of films about female comic book heroes. It’s just that most of them sucked. Red Sonja and Supergirl weren't directed by women but beat WW to the punch by over 30 years. WW suffered from a weak third act and DCEU villian problem. Mos was the only film to have remotely good bad guys. All the other ones were giant horn headed cgi monsters. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2018 22:31:45 GMT -5
All the other ones were giant horns headed cgi monsters. I was tempted to counter with Batman, but I guess giant-horned CGI monster still fits. |
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Post by Metallo on May 6, 2018 11:55:18 GMT -5
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Post by crown on May 6, 2018 17:59:00 GMT -5
Enrique.... I'm sorry.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 7, 2018 11:41:49 GMT -5
I agree, it was pretty standard. I enjoyed the middle act quite a bit, but intro and finale were a bit of a let down. What was the first female-led comic book film directed by a woman? Are we counting films like Persepolis? Off the top of my head, the only other woman-directed comic book film was one of the Punisher films. I guess I have some learning to do... Still, Ghostbusters 2016 did not get the same "pass," though seriously it was tough having a conversation about that film with anyone in the real world because people would assume you're just being sexist for not being interested in the film, when it's like no, I don't care for Paul Feig's films. I eventually did watch it, it was pretty boring. Ghostbusters did get something of a pass from some people but it wasn't enough to make a difference. Some people went along but most didn’t. They did everything wrong. Remade a beloved film. Tried to spin all the criticisms as sexist when they clearly weren’t. Put out some awful marketing early on. Finally when the film came out it just wasn’t very good. I didn’t find it offensively bad but it was the textbook definition of forgettable and mediocre. Ivan Reitman was the only one to give a real reason why people were upset at the film and Sony basically cut him out of the process. Everyone else tried Sony’s bs strategies. Tank girl starring Lori Petty was directed by a woman. Came out in 1995. There’s also been plenty of films about female comic book heroes. It’s just that most of them sucked. Red Sonja and Supergirl weren't directed by women but beat WW to the punch by over 30 years. WW suffered from a weak third act and DCEU villian problem. Mos was the only film to have remotely good bad guys. All the other ones were giant horn headed cgi monsters. Funny, there's a lot of interesting bits on films you guys talk about in this discussion about Enrique.  I don't want to go back and quote all of the previous posts, so I'm just crunching some of the movies mentioned here: Roughly- #1: I know I'm probably one of a handful that actually really loved Superman Returns, outside of the weak parts with Luthor. I also thought it was a giant mistake for Singer to not have a superhero battle like Michael Dougherty was trying to convince him to have- but, oddly, Apocalypse had a big one that had little emotional weight by the end of that film. (But that film had other problems discussed) #2: I also really liked Justice League by Zack/Whedon- but, it would be nice to see the original Zack vision as a contrast, too. It's not the perfect meld I might have hoped for (Good visuals by Zack, story and character by Whedon)- but it's enjoyable, despite the incredibly boring CGI Steppenwolf and his bugs. Is it the epic that could have happened? No, but after MOS came out- the well really was kind of poisoned. By that reckoning (to quote Jor-el), I actually really enjoyed BvS as an improvement over MOS--- there were still the awkward and incredibly bad choices here and there, but maybe because it was from Batfleck's point of view I didn't feel like we had to focus so much on the Superman damage. #3: Ghostbusters I never had a problem with a female reboot, and I think some of Paul Feige's work is hilarious (The pilot for Freaks and Geeks is a classic, and I did find "Spy" funny as heck and "Other Space" fun) .... but the new Ghostbusters just wasn't that funny and it was disappointing for being so mediocre. #4: Catwoman was a weird bad film. That it garnered so much support at WB to have such a huge budget (at the time) is truly bizarre. It kind of plays like a porn parody of a superhero film, only without the porn. #5: Green Lantern just didn't seem to get it on a script level. The bits with SInestro and Abin Sur and the Guardians were great- but it's a little weird how Daredevil and Green Lantern were both horrible films, but were great in getting its stars a spouse. (I'm a little resentful at the stars for ruining 4 hours of my life, but giving themselves a nice wedding day. Irritating. ) #6: I loved the first half of Wonder Woman- (if I ignore the villain parts) up to the part where she steps out onto the battlefield, but then right after that high point, I thought it just got muddled. I do get the love of the world for it, though- Wonder Woman was just about as famous an icon as Superman and Batman- so there was no reason that she couldn't have gotten a shot at the big screen much earlier. I think that the 'extra' love it's getting is due to that. It's not the first female superhero film, but perhaps the first GOOD one. (Sorry Helen Slater). #7: I have a weird feeling that Snyder isn't necessarily trying to do crowd-pleasers per se, but just that his sense of story sometimes just isn't there. Prior to HBO now doing "Watchmen", for the longest time it seemed like there was never going to be a Watchmen movie- let alone one that tried to capture the images just about frame for frame. For sure, his Watchmen film was by no means something that would seem commercial (and I'm not sure it had much - if any- profit). So, as much as I put down Snyder's work- I do think he's passionate about his films and that he has some great visual strengths (Arguably he's had the best Batman action sequences so far on film)- but I do think his ability to handle drama is lacking and his idea for a great shot at times way overwhelms movie logic at times. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2018 14:53:04 GMT -5
That's a pretty fair assessment of Snyder's work.
Full disclosure, I appreciate Superman Returns as well. There are some misfires that I wish were handled differently, but appreciate the core of the film.
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Post by Metallo on May 7, 2018 15:17:00 GMT -5
Snyder’s best when he’s following the plans of someone who is a better storyteller and adds his visual touch. He can make a pretty picture but when it comes to story and character he can easily get lost or wrapped up in excess. He needs someone to pull him back.
Dawn of the Dead was before his bag of tricks and it was written by...James Gunn. They also had Romero’s blueprint to follow. The 300 comic isn’t exactly an all time masterpiece but again the movie had Millers blueprint to follow and the closer Snyder sticks to the source material the better the movie is.
BvS borrowed from death of Superman and tdkr in one big mashup but didn’t really stick close to either one. He’s played it somewhat safe relying on the same things that made 300 a hit. He should try to stretch himself as a director. Sometimes when auteurs do that they can have their greatest success. Tim Burton did.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 7, 2018 15:53:05 GMT -5
That's a pretty fair assessment of Snyder's work. Full disclosure, I appreciate Superman Returns as well. There are some misfires that I wish were handled differently, but appreciate the core of the film. It's such a pity to me that SR didn't get the action packed sequel promised.... but the idea of having Superman having to end up killing Jason is pretty out there. (if that really was what they had in mind) While I admire and love how WB supported Nolan's PG-13 Dark Knight and its level of darkness (I wouldn't have disagreed if an 'R' rating would have ended up being mandatory)- It's really hard to envision how Singer might have pulled it off... but it's possible that he might not have been able to, after seeing how Apocalypse was so disappointing (even if you include the deleted scenes). |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 7, 2018 15:54:38 GMT -5
Snyder’s best when he’s following the plans of someone who is a better storyteller and adds his visual touch. He can make a pretty picture but when it comes to story and character he can easily get lost or wrapped up in excess. He needs someone to pull him back. Dawn of the Dead was before his bag of tricks and it was written by...James Gunn. They also had Romero’s blueprint to follow. The 300 comic isn’t exactly an all time masterpiece but again the movie had Millers blueprint to follow and the closer Snyder sticks to the source material the better the movie is. BvS borrowed from death of Superman and tdkr in one big mashup but didn’t really stick close to either one. He’s played it somewhat safe relying on the same things that made 300 a hit. He should try to stretch himself as a director. Sometimes when auteurs do that they can have their greatest success. Tim Burton did. If Snyder had a strong hands-on producer that had good story sense, I think he would be able to do some great films- I imagine that that's what WB might have thought was going to happen with Nolan putting his name on as producer of MOS, but.... oh well....  |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2018 17:01:23 GMT -5
I'd love to see Tarsem Singh attempt a Superman film. He'd probably have all the complaints Snyder got and more, but the film sure would be a trip...
Was Jude Law rumored to be Zod in Superman Returns or the follow up? And if in Returns, does anyone know in what scope? Like flashback/recreation of what we saw in Superman II, or full on "well, Superman went back in time, and Zod and co were released for the 3rd time"?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 7, 2018 17:50:05 GMT -5
I'd love to see Tarsem Singh attempt a Superman film. He'd probably have all the complaints Snyder got and more, but the film sure would be a trip... Was Jude Law rumored to be Zod in Superman Returns or the follow up? And if in Returns, does anyone know in what scope? Like flashback/recreation of what we saw in Superman II, or full on "well, Superman went back in time, and Zod and co were released for the 3rd time"? It's been awhile, but I think it was for Snyder's MOS. (Originally he was rumored for BvS playing Superman years ago! I wonder how he's going to be for Captain Marvel now....) |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2018 18:24:54 GMT -5
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