dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 19, 2020 18:52:29 GMT -5
I'm curious- was the double bill your first viewing of both STM/SII? I imagine if I did see STM/SII as a double as a first experience- that my own experience might be greatly different on both. I hear you on the disappointment- I had been so thrilled when it was announced that SIV with the cast was coming back, and the articles in magazines like Starlog gave me even more hope... Then- little by little- from the 'hey, why is this not playing in the big theatre in town first?', to 'hey why is there only five people in line', to 'hey, why do the flying titles look so... cheap?', to 'why on earth is Superman looking like a piece of flying cardboard in the first shot?'---- I got giant letdown moments from then on.... but even so, I still went back to see it in the 2nd run theatre multiple times.... poor Reeve Superman better than nothing at all I thought! Hi CAM Yes the double bill was my personal introduction---would not have it any other way! I was only 7 at the time. Having said that, those 2 films were so unique for the time period(1978-1981) that even if I had been an adult at that point......I think my reaction would have been roughly the same Stand out memories(well the whole thing was a stand out!)…..the rings encapsulating the 3 criminals, the dome opening,Pa Kent dropping dead,...the crane shot passing over Ma Kent and young Clark,the helicopter sequence,Supes catching the thief on the skyscraper(bear in mind I had just seen Spiderman--The Dragon's Challenge a few days before----so seeing Supes stand on the glass wall of the building blew my mind)….the Lois interview,Clark jumping out the window and turning back the world....I actually asked my pap if there was a technical problem with the projection of the movie...as it was playing backwards---lol. I empathise whole heartedly with your SIV experience. After that 1987 debacle...I did not see it again until it's premiere on UK TV in 1991.....I wanted it desperately to be good.....I even recorded it onto video....as if I had mistakenly thought it was bad in 87'......only just to accept that there was no salvation for it....lol....I hated it even more....lol |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 19, 2020 18:59:11 GMT -5
Just finished watching The King Of The Gypsies(again on Blu ray) Wow this is one hard edged film with a stand out performance from Eric Roberts---very impressive for a 22 year old. Annette O' Tool is in this too.....also delivers a fine performance. Actually Roberts looked very similar to Chris Reeve....before he started building up for Superman! It's a shame that Robert's performance may have gone largely unnoticed at the time as the media was focusing on the then new Superman film. If you have not seen it before....as I had not until tonight....highly recommended.  |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 20, 2020 16:30:25 GMT -5
Hi CAM Yes the double bill was my personal introduction---would not have it any other way! I was only 7 at the time. Having said that, those 2 films were so unique for the time period(1978-1981) that even if I had been an adult at that point......I think my reaction would have been roughly the same Stand out memories(well the whole thing was a stand out!)…..the rings encapsulating the 3 criminals, the dome opening,Pa Kent dropping dead,...the crane shot passing over Ma Kent and young Clark,the helicopter sequence,Supes catching the thief on the skyscraper(bear in mind I had just seen Spiderman--The Dragon's Challenge a few days before----so seeing Supes stand on the glass wall of the building blew my mind)….the Lois interview,Clark jumping out the window and turning back the world....I actually asked my pap if there was a technical problem with the projection of the movie...as it was playing backwards---lol. I empathise whole heartedly with your SIV experience. After that 1987 debacle...I did not see it again until it's premiere on UK TV in 1991.....I wanted it desperately to be good.....I even recorded it onto video....as if I had mistakenly thought it was bad in 87'......only just to accept that there was no salvation for it....lol....I hated it even more....lol Hey Dejan--- Knowing that: #1: You saw these back to back FIRST- and #2: That you were 7 years old when viewing these--- In putting myself in that experience and context, I know I would have had a wildly different experience than the ones I had. For me: (I know this really dates me but) #1: I had a first date with one of the STM showings- to give a rough time frame of my age & sense of what I expected (disappointing date btw, but overwhelming movie experience) - I was REALLY demanding as a comics fan at that age (an age where being a comics fan was laughed at not accepted- so Lester taking things not as seriously for SII didn't help my cause that comics were acceptable at all ages argument at the time)& even the first one took me awhile to accept Luthor as comic foil until I saw how it was going to work with Donner's version of SII. #2: The time between movie experiences (YEARS) definitely gave me time to expect more more more especially with so many rewatches of STM. If I had seen it back to back on a first view- I know it would not have been the same experience for me. SIV at least tried to be serious, so even if the production was disastrous- I could see the intent even as I cringed with the outcome. Still, after years of superhero movie famine at the time, I still felt 'better SIV than nothing at all'....  |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 20, 2020 18:53:09 GMT -5
I think seeing STM and S2 back to back might have spoiled the experience for me.
For some films, a close gap does work, for example Back to the Future 2 and 3.
But I feel Superman needed a year or two in between..
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 20, 2020 19:11:28 GMT -5
Hi CAM Yes the double bill was my personal introduction---would not have it any other way! I was only 7 at the time. Having said that, those 2 films were so unique for the time period(1978-1981) that even if I had been an adult at that point......I think my reaction would have been roughly the same Stand out memories(well the whole thing was a stand out!)…..the rings encapsulating the 3 criminals, the dome opening,Pa Kent dropping dead,...the crane shot passing over Ma Kent and young Clark,the helicopter sequence,Supes catching the thief on the skyscraper(bear in mind I had just seen Spiderman--The Dragon's Challenge a few days before----so seeing Supes stand on the glass wall of the building blew my mind)….the Lois interview,Clark jumping out the window and turning back the world....I actually asked my pap if there was a technical problem with the projection of the movie...as it was playing backwards---lol. I empathise whole heartedly with your SIV experience. After that 1987 debacle...I did not see it again until it's premiere on UK TV in 1991.....I wanted it desperately to be good.....I even recorded it onto video....as if I had mistakenly thought it was bad in 87'......only just to accept that there was no salvation for it....lol....I hated it even more....lol Hey Dejan--- Knowing that: #1: You saw these back to back FIRST- and #2: That you were 7 years old when viewing these--- In putting myself in that experience and context, I know I would have had a wildly different experience than the ones I had. For me: (I know this really dates me but) #1: I had a first date with one of the STM showings- to give a rough time frame of my age & sense of what I expected (disappointing date btw, but overwhelming movie experience) - I was REALLY demanding as a comics fan at that age (an age where being a comics fan was laughed at not accepted- so Lester taking things not as seriously for SII didn't help my cause that comics were acceptable at all ages argument at the time)& even the first one took me awhile to accept Luthor as comic foil until I saw how it was going to work with Donner's version of SII. #2: The time between movie experiences (YEARS) definitely gave me time to expect more more more especially with so many rewatches of STM. If I had seen it back to back on a first view- I know it would not have been the same experience for me. SIV at least tried to be serious, so even if the production was disastrous- I could see the intent even as I cringed with the outcome. Still, after years of superhero movie famine at the time, I still felt 'better SIV than nothing at all'.... Thanks for sharing CAM...appreciated. Think I would have given an arm and a leg to have seen STM in 78'!(obviously I was too young). Having said that, it looks like if we traded places....and I had been of comparable age to you in 78'....and had seen STM(just as you did)....and then had waited a few years for SII....and being somewhat cognizant of the behind the scenes drama...…...then maybe I would have seen it in a similar manner to you. Putting aside STM as a ground breaking flick for 78'....I still think SII had a heck of a lot going for it in 81'. The things that compelled me on that 1st viewing for SII from a story telling viewpoint: 1) the villains being freed and expressing the same powers as Supes'......but at the same time being kept apart from Supes until the final act......great story telling structure from Puzo here. 2)Luthor escaping from prison and essentially discovering Supe's origins. 3)Lois finally discovering Supe's double identity 4)Supes losing his powers. These 4 factors totally engrossed me into the story.....added to the fact these 4 narratives were playing out almost simultaneously(or at least in quick succession to one another) as the story unfolded captivated me even more. Again Puzo deserves the credit here...because his first act(STM) built Supes up...and we the audience, reveled in his powers-especially the flying and the saving of people …..it kinda compensates for the fact that Supe's is rarely challenged in STM(Luthor's kryptonite trick apart) Then Puzo essentially tore Supes down for SII. It's great story telling and I think Lester still preserved those primordial elements even if he may have jettisoned some of the tone that Donner generated for STM. Also SII moves at breakneck speed.....in terms of narrative and locations.....far faster than any other fantasy movie from 81(excluding raiders) Actually Bond's For Your Eyes only also moves swiftly as a flick...…..but the story lacks the compelling nature of SII(or Raiders) I would revisit SII in the summer of 1982(aged 8) for a one off showing at our arts theater in Cambridge....it was packed and the audience were mostly adults...and the atmosphere was electric....when Supe's popped up on the DP balcony to challenge Zod and Co the place erupted. With regard to SIV......I also went to see Star Trek IV in the same summer of 87'....an evening showing again mostly with adults and it was a fantastic experience. ST IV is/was leagues ahead of SIV in every respect. Seeing them so close together that summer(87') just made me more sad how far down Superman had fallen. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 20, 2020 19:16:36 GMT -5
I think seeing STM and S2 back to back might have spoiled the experience for me. For some films, a close gap does work, for example Back to the Future 2 and 3. But I feel Superman needed a year or two in between.. Yeah it's interesting how it played out differently for all of us. Even so that double bill was the highlight of my personal movie going experience  |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 20, 2020 19:28:02 GMT -5
Well tonight's 1978 for me on Blu ray was Eastwood's Every Which Way But Loose.
I have not seen this film since the early 80s on home video so watching it tonight was essentially like watching it for the first time.
And of the flicks from 1978 that I have watched so far over the last 2 weeks or so....this is the most disappointing.
It does have a certain charm however and Eastwood has a commanding screen presence(The Salkinds even considered him for the part of Supes!) ....
God if they made a flick like this now the Orangutan would be CGI.....lol
I actually have a STM brochure from 1978 that I bagged off ebay a few years back and there is promo on the back page for Every Which Way But Loose.
So as a post card from 78' it is worth a watch.....but Days Of Heaven,Deer Hunter,Coming Home and my personal surprise favourite so far...King Of The Gypsies are in a different league.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 21, 2020 13:43:05 GMT -5
Think I would have given an arm and a leg to have seen STM in 78'!(obviously I was too young). Having said that, it looks like if we traded places....and I had been of comparable age to you in 78'....and had seen STM(just as you did)....and then had waited a few years for SII....and being somewhat cognizant of the behind the scenes drama...…...then maybe I would have seen it in a similar manner to you. Putting aside STM as a ground breaking flick for 78'....I still think SII had a heck of a lot going for it in 81'. .... Puzo essentially tore Supes down for SII. It's great story telling and I think Lester still preserved those primordial elements even if he may have jettisoned some of the tone that Donner generated for STM. Also SII moves at breakneck speed.....in terms of narrative and locations.....far faster than any other fantasy movie from 81(excluding raiders) Actually Bond's For Your Eyes only also moves swiftly as a flick...…..but the story lacks the compelling nature of SII(or Raiders) I would revisit SII in the summer of 1982(aged 8) for a one off showing at our arts theater in Cambridge....it was packed and the audience were mostly adults...and the atmosphere was electric....when Supe's popped up on the DP balcony to challenge Zod and Co the place erupted. With regard to SIV......I also went to see Star Trek IV in the same summer of 87'....an evening showing again mostly with adults and it was a fantastic experience. ST IV is/was leagues ahead of SIV in every respect. Seeing them so close together that summer(87') just made me more sad how far down Superman had fallen. Thanks Dejan! SII is still a very good movie, but in comparing the scripts of what Donner was going to shoot (or reshoot to improve)... SII actually would have been even 'leaner and meaner'- the Phantom Zone criminals had ONE 'landing on earth' sequence with the sheriffs (that played a lot deadlier)- and Mank wrote it in a way that got Zod the information to know it was the president he was after.... and then it was immediately 'villains destroy the world/go to the Washington monument'.... |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 21, 2020 18:07:33 GMT -5
Think I would have given an arm and a leg to have seen STM in 78'!(obviously I was too young). Having said that, it looks like if we traded places....and I had been of comparable age to you in 78'....and had seen STM(just as you did)....and then had waited a few years for SII....and being somewhat cognizant of the behind the scenes drama...…...then maybe I would have seen it in a similar manner to you. Putting aside STM as a ground breaking flick for 78'....I still think SII had a heck of a lot going for it in 81'. .... Puzo essentially tore Supes down for SII. It's great story telling and I think Lester still preserved those primordial elements even if he may have jettisoned some of the tone that Donner generated for STM. Also SII moves at breakneck speed.....in terms of narrative and locations.....far faster than any other fantasy movie from 81(excluding raiders) Actually Bond's For Your Eyes only also moves swiftly as a flick...…..but the story lacks the compelling nature of SII(or Raiders) I would revisit SII in the summer of 1982(aged 8) for a one off showing at our arts theater in Cambridge....it was packed and the audience were mostly adults...and the atmosphere was electric....when Supe's popped up on the DP balcony to challenge Zod and Co the place erupted. With regard to SIV......I also went to see Star Trek IV in the same summer of 87'....an evening showing again mostly with adults and it was a fantastic experience. ST IV is/was leagues ahead of SIV in every respect. Seeing them so close together that summer(87') just made me more sad how far down Superman had fallen. Thanks Dejan! SII is still a very good movie, but in comparing the scripts of what Donner was going to shoot (or reshoot to improve)... SII actually would have been even 'leaner and meaner'- the Phantom Zone criminals had ONE 'landing on earth' sequence with the sheriffs (that played a lot deadlier)- and Mank wrote it in a way that got Zod the information to know it was the president he was after.... and then it was immediately 'villains destroy the world/go to the Washington monument'.... Hi CAM Totally agree that the Mank SII script is leaner and meaner than what was shot by Lester in the end. This is the way I personally see it: In the context of 1980/81 What ended up on the screen was still unique...…..would it have been even more unique if Donner had shot it....in my opinion(and I think yours too!)…..yes I think so. As I said in another thread a couple of months back.....the villains taking over the world as scripted by Mank was a touch too quick(IMHO of course!) and also encapsulated a slightly "distanced" feel in terms of said villains as they destroy stuff. Let me explain in a bit more depth: Looking at the original SII script, you have Non and Ursa destroying the Eiffel Tower and Mt. Rushore respectively ....a cool idea for sure...….but (as scripted)...they have no direct interaction with any of the populations of either Paris or Mt Rushmore(ok...I am assuming Mt Rushmore is a remote type of location anyways) Now if Donner had shot this....would he have padded this scene out with extra material of Non and Ursa somehow engaging the Americans and Parsians in these sequences. Also the script says that the Kremlin and Tokyo are already in flames......again there is no direct interaction of the villains with the earthlings(as scripted). In fact the only main interactions are with the rangers, the Washington monument (where Zod gives his speech and the police officers are at the base) and the white house....other scenes are destruction from a distance. What we have is an interesting inversion of the scale of the Villains destructive sequences relative to their interaction with the population. In other words....Lester scaled down the size of the destruction but increased the interaction of the villains with the earthlings. I think if Donner had finished the film in 79'.....he would have needed to pad out those sequences. One has to remember the helicopter sequence of STM was also padded out with extra shots----in fact the helicopter was not meant to come off the railing in the original STM script......they decided to add it whilst they were shooting!(if I am not mistaken). So I guess I have added a few more what ifs there.....but hopefully you see where I am coming from. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 21, 2020 18:27:26 GMT -5
Tonight's 1978 film for me was Piranha(courtesy of shout factory on Blu Ray)
It's not bad....much stronger than Every Which Way But Loose(which is not difficult) and not as good as Jaws!(obviously).
Having said that.....its still quite brutal in terms of kids getting attacked.
There is some excellent stop motion photography from Phil Tippet(who designed Jabba in ROTJ.)
I guess you could call this a sci-fi film of sorts......and I like the idea of the U.S government covering stuff up to hide their Bio defense programs.
But watching all these 1978 flicks it is very clear that the top tier movies that were made with real class were the social dramas(Coming Home,Days Of Heaven,King Of The Gypsies), thrillers-horror(Halloween,Dawn Of The Dead), war films(Deer Hunter ect),comedy/musicals(Grease).
2nd rate stuff like Every Which Way But Loose and Piranha were very much in a lower league.
For the record I have also been watching these films with their original mono tracks(most of them are mono--but nota all) which helps to perceive and hear them the way 1978 audiences did.
Hoping to watch STM UHD tomorrow night to round it all off......have been stuck in 1978 for nearly 2 weeks from a cinephile's point of view....lol
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 24, 2020 8:50:31 GMT -5
Well finally watched the STM UHD to round off my 2 weeks of watching just movies made in 1978. There is nothing I am going to say with regards to STM that you don't know already.....but my first impressions in contrasting it with the other films from the same year: From a visual perspective....right off the bat....the opening credits! All the other films from 78'(or any year before quite frankly!) typically had some static typeface text for the credits superimposed on either a background of collaged photos(like Days Of Heaven) or live footage(Dawn Of The Dead, King Of The Gypsies, Every Which Way But Loose, Deer Hunter) or on a largely black background(Halloween, Boys From Brazil). So to see the credits of STM whoosh past or in front of you really is something quite striking.....the audience must have been sucking this up back in 78'! Now having seen all these other flicks from 78' which were totally ground(reality) based......to see the huge projected faces of the Krypton council and the moving rings that encapsulated the 3 villains is a wonderful effect...and very "other worldly"....totally immerses you into this fantastical environment....even more so when the dome opens to reveal the size of the structure. Also the moment little Clark picks up the truck.....reminded me of a scene from Every Which Way But Loose where Eastwood hoists up the front of a car that he is trying to repair...and he kind of struggles to do it.....so seeing little Clark do it with effortless ease immediately reinforces the super human strength aspect of the piece. It's common place in todays cinema to see normal looking humans do extraordinary things......but back then to see what looked like a normal human being express powerful strength would have been quite novel. And this is truly applicable when the camera zooms through Jorel's crystallised head to reveal Supes for the first time.....the moment Reeve levitates off the ground and subsequently banks past the camera you know you are watching something special.....trust me..... having seen 10 films from the same year where all the protagonists only exhibited very human characteristics.....to see a guy take off and fly is quite something! Compared to the other films from 78' which were all monolithic in terms of tone and environments(Ok Deer Hunter being the exception) ......STM has it's unique 3 part structure(Krypton, Smallville, Metrolpolis and the rest) which is also nice to see. Boys From Brazil has quite a bit of location work but STM takes it to the next level. Without being biased!.....STM should have won the Cinematography Oscar award for 78' Days Of Heaven(which did win) is a beautiful looking movie......but STM has a lot more variety. On another note.....the sound! As I said before most of these other flicks are in mono.....in fact of the ones I have watched only Deer Hunter and Days Of Heaven feature surround tracks....which is not surprising....as Dolby stereo tracks where a relatively new feature at that time. But STM's surround track(the UHD has the original 70mm magnetic encoded for 5.1) is something else. It's a great sound design and without doubt the best sound mix of the year.(unless there is a movie from 78' I have missed that had a better one...I doubt it). And again without being biased I think Reeve was worthy of a least a nomination for his acting. Other competitors from 78' like Voight,DeNiro,Olivier,Walken,Roberts and Eastwood never had to recite 2 distinctly different roles in the same movie(Clark and Supes). And from a physical standpoint.....they never had to strap themselves into a harness and make you believe a man could fly! So all in all 78' had some great stuff....but STM was special indeed Whoever got to see it back then in the first theatrical run must have had their minds blown! |
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atp
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Post by atp on Jul 24, 2020 19:55:33 GMT -5
If only STM didnt have that time reversal ending. Would be perfect
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jul 25, 2020 13:34:51 GMT -5
From an emotional and thematic standpoint it works wonderfully but logically and because of the implications it brings up its pretty questionable.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 26, 2020 2:29:47 GMT -5
From an emotional and thematic standpoint it works wonderfully but logically and because of the implications it brings up its pretty questionable. I agree-- emotionally it works well (sort of), but from the getgo with Puzo's adaptation that included it--- it's just a plot solution that never was even accepted in the comics--- and for good reason. (If Superman can reverse time, then what's the point of anything.) It works- but only as long as one doesn't stop and think about the lack of logic behind it.... |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 29, 2020 13:24:30 GMT -5
Well finally watched the STM UHD to round off my 2 weeks of watching just movies made in 1978. There is nothing I am going to say with regards to STM that you don't know already.....but my first impressions in contrasting it with the other films from the same year: From a visual perspective....right off the bat....the opening credits! All the other films from 78'(or any year before quite frankly!) typically had some static typeface text for the credits superimposed on either a background of collaged photos(like Days Of Heaven) or live footage(Dawn Of The Dead, King Of The Gypsies, Every Which Way But Loose, Deer Hunter) or on a largely black background(Halloween, Boys From Brazil). So to see the credits of STM whoosh past or in front of you really is something quite striking.....the audience must have been sucking this up back in 78'! Now having seen all these other flicks from 78' which were totally ground(reality) based......to see the huge projected faces of the Krypton council and the moving rings that encapsulated the 3 villains is a wonderful effect...and very "other worldly"....totally immerses you into this fantastical environment....even more so when the dome opens to reveal the size of the structure. Also the moment little Clark picks up the truck.....reminded me of a scene from Every Which Way But Loose where Eastwood hoists up the front of a car that he is trying to repair...and he kind of struggles to do it.....so seeing little Clark do it with effortless ease immediately reinforces the super human strength aspect of the piece. It's common place in todays cinema to see normal looking humans do extraordinary things......but back then to see what looked like a normal human being express powerful strength would have been quite novel. And this is truly applicable when the camera zooms through Jorel's crystallised head to reveal Supes for the first time.....the moment Reeve levitates off the ground and subsequently banks past the camera you know you are watching something special.....trust me..... having seen 10 films from the same year where all the protagonists only exhibited very human characteristics.....to see a guy take off and fly is quite something! Compared to the other films from 78' which were all monolithic in terms of tone and environments(Ok Deer Hunter being the exception) ......STM has it's unique 3 part structure(Krypton, Smallville, Metrolpolis and the rest) which is also nice to see. Boys From Brazil has quite a bit of location work but STM takes it to the next level. Without being biased!.....STM should have won the Cinematography Oscar award for 78' Days Of Heaven(which did win) is a beautiful looking movie......but STM has a lot more variety. On another note.....the sound! As I said before most of these other flicks are in mono.....in fact of the ones I have watched only Deer Hunter and Days Of Heaven feature surround tracks....which is not surprising....as Dolby stereo tracks where a relatively new feature at that time. But STM's surround track(the UHD has the original 70mm magnetic encoded for 5.1) is something else. It's a great sound design and without doubt the best sound mix of the year.(unless there is a movie from 78' I have missed that had a better one...I doubt it). And again without being biased I think Reeve was worthy of a least a nomination for his acting. Other competitors from 78' like Voight,DeNiro,Olivier,Walken,Roberts and Eastwood never had to recite 2 distinctly different roles in the same movie(Clark and Supes). And from a physical standpoint.....they never had to strap themselves into a harness and make you believe a man could fly! So all in all 78' had some great stuff....but STM was special indeed Whoever got to see it back then in the first theatrical run must have had their minds blown! That's very cool! What would make the 'ultimate' STM disc would be some trailers before the movie of other popular films that were released around the same time to give context. And, yeah, I did have my mind blown seeing it on the big screen when it first came out! |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 30, 2020 16:57:00 GMT -5
If only STM didnt have that time reversal ending. Would be perfect You raise a pertinent question ATP This is my personal opinion. As a repeat phenomenon(i.e having seen STM a million times)….I would agree that the time reversal factor is riddled with contradictions and (arguably) a sense of having been rushed into the script at the 11th hour. Of course it was SII's original ending and I think that had history been different and STM had finished as a cliffhanger(as originally scripted) then seeing him turn the world back to undo all the damage the villains had done may well have worked better(maybe we can have a thread on that). But from a very personal perspective......I have to say that on my first viewing of STM in 1981...…. the sheer horror and unexpectedness of seeing Lois get killed actually left me a bit speechless as to how Supe's would deal with the situation.....I was enough of a comic book fan back then(as a 7 year old) to know that Lois was a pivotal character in the Superman lore. So for me , on the first viewing, my emotions went from from being totally shocked that Lois was dead......to h*ly S**t!......Supes is undoing history(although I had to have my dad, who took me to the screening, explain to me what was happening lol) So on a first viewing for me.....it totally worked. Gotta remember that back then, in cinematic terms, fixing stuff through time travel was virtually unprecedented. Contrast that with the end of Infinity war where fans were speculating straight off the bat that some form of time travel would fix the downers and deaths at the end of that flick...…and Endgame truly delivered! So would be nice to get the opinions of you CAM and Metallo on what your impressions were back in 78' when you saw it for the first time...…..did the time reversal thing work for you folks It did for me...but that is just me |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 30, 2020 17:09:32 GMT -5
Well finally watched the STM UHD to round off my 2 weeks of watching just movies made in 1978. There is nothing I am going to say with regards to STM that you don't know already.....but my first impressions in contrasting it with the other films from the same year: From a visual perspective....right off the bat....the opening credits! All the other films from 78'(or any year before quite frankly!) typically had some static typeface text for the credits superimposed on either a background of collaged photos(like Days Of Heaven) or live footage(Dawn Of The Dead, King Of The Gypsies, Every Which Way But Loose, Deer Hunter) or on a largely black background(Halloween, Boys From Brazil). So to see the credits of STM whoosh past or in front of you really is something quite striking.....the audience must have been sucking this up back in 78'! Now having seen all these other flicks from 78' which were totally ground(reality) based......to see the huge projected faces of the Krypton council and the moving rings that encapsulated the 3 villains is a wonderful effect...and very "other worldly"....totally immerses you into this fantastical environment....even more so when the dome opens to reveal the size of the structure. Also the moment little Clark picks up the truck.....reminded me of a scene from Every Which Way But Loose where Eastwood hoists up the front of a car that he is trying to repair...and he kind of struggles to do it.....so seeing little Clark do it with effortless ease immediately reinforces the super human strength aspect of the piece. It's common place in todays cinema to see normal looking humans do extraordinary things......but back then to see what looked like a normal human being express powerful strength would have been quite novel. And this is truly applicable when the camera zooms through Jorel's crystallised head to reveal Supes for the first time.....the moment Reeve levitates off the ground and subsequently banks past the camera you know you are watching something special.....trust me..... having seen 10 films from the same year where all the protagonists only exhibited very human characteristics.....to see a guy take off and fly is quite something! Compared to the other films from 78' which were all monolithic in terms of tone and environments(Ok Deer Hunter being the exception) ......STM has it's unique 3 part structure(Krypton, Smallville, Metrolpolis and the rest) which is also nice to see. Boys From Brazil has quite a bit of location work but STM takes it to the next level. Without being biased!.....STM should have won the Cinematography Oscar award for 78' Days Of Heaven(which did win) is a beautiful looking movie......but STM has a lot more variety. On another note.....the sound! As I said before most of these other flicks are in mono.....in fact of the ones I have watched only Deer Hunter and Days Of Heaven feature surround tracks....which is not surprising....as Dolby stereo tracks where a relatively new feature at that time. But STM's surround track(the UHD has the original 70mm magnetic encoded for 5.1) is something else. It's a great sound design and without doubt the best sound mix of the year.(unless there is a movie from 78' I have missed that had a better one...I doubt it). And again without being biased I think Reeve was worthy of a least a nomination for his acting. Other competitors from 78' like Voight,DeNiro,Olivier,Walken,Roberts and Eastwood never had to recite 2 distinctly different roles in the same movie(Clark and Supes). And from a physical standpoint.....they never had to strap themselves into a harness and make you believe a man could fly! So all in all 78' had some great stuff....but STM was special indeed Whoever got to see it back then in the first theatrical run must have had their minds blown! That's very cool! What would make the 'ultimate' STM disc would be some trailers before the movie of other popular films that were released around the same time to give context. And, yeah, I did have my mind blown seeing it on the big screen when it first came out! Good idea CAM And I can't envy you enough for getting your mind blown back in 78'.....one for the grandchildren....no doubt! I have actually watched some of these 78' flicks for a second time over the last few days(Dawn Of The Dead,Days Of Heaven, King Of The Gypsies ect). Really enjoyed them...…King Of The Gypsies I cannot recommend enough....I am hoping it will get the revisit it deserves....for me it is up there with Deer Hunter(I personally think it is better....but again that is my opinion! ) It's actually interesting that Star Wars buried an absolute classic flick.....Sorcerer ….. in May 77'...….and that STM did like wise to another "rough diamond"... King Of The Gypsies in December 78' They don't make em' like they used to. Having spent 3 weeks just watching films from 1978...….I came back to contemporary times today when I watched Rampage(2018) for the first time on Amazon Prime. What a load of s**t!....actually The Rock is respectable in this ….but still...…. all the CG w*****y just undoes it all for me. And it has reminded me exactly why I can't wait to watch something else from the past lol! |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Jul 31, 2020 1:17:00 GMT -5
Good idea CAM And I can't envy you enough for getting your mind blown back in 78'.....one for the grandchildren....no doubt! I have actually watched some of these 78' flicks for a second time over the last few days(Dawn Of The Dead,Days Of Heaven, King Of The Gypsies ect). Really enjoyed them...…King Of The Gypsies I cannot recommend enough....I am hoping it will get the revisit it deserves....for me it is up there with Deer Hunter(I personally think it is better....but again that is my opinion! ) It's actually interesting that Star Wars buried an absolute classic flick.....Sorcerer ….. in May 77'...….and that STM did like wise to another "rough diamond"... King Of The Gypsies in December 78' They don't make em' like they used to. Having spent 3 weeks just watching films from 1978...….I came back to contemporary times today when I watched Rampage(2018) for the first time on Amazon Prime. What a load of s**t!....actually The Rock is respectable in this ….but still...…. all the CG w*****y just undoes it all for me. And it has reminded me exactly why I can't wait to watch something else from the past lol! I was super-lucky (heh heh)--- I was just the right age to be completely blown away by the original Star Wars just years before- had a sadly bad experience with CLose Encounters (the schmucks at the front desk let us in during the last 10 minutes of the movie first, so I saw the ending before the build up).... but had the fantastic experience just a couple of years later with Superman. To add to the situation, the lack of VHS meant that you REALLY savored the experience as you felt like- there's no way to 'store' it ever for home viewing....so the movie memorabilia that could help you regain the feeling of the movie was somewhat sacred! |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Jul 31, 2020 15:52:34 GMT -5
Good idea CAM And I can't envy you enough for getting your mind blown back in 78'.....one for the grandchildren....no doubt! I have actually watched some of these 78' flicks for a second time over the last few days(Dawn Of The Dead,Days Of Heaven, King Of The Gypsies ect). Really enjoyed them...…King Of The Gypsies I cannot recommend enough....I am hoping it will get the revisit it deserves....for me it is up there with Deer Hunter(I personally think it is better....but again that is my opinion! ) It's actually interesting that Star Wars buried an absolute classic flick.....Sorcerer ….. in May 77'...….and that STM did like wise to another "rough diamond"... King Of The Gypsies in December 78' They don't make em' like they used to. Having spent 3 weeks just watching films from 1978...….I came back to contemporary times today when I watched Rampage(2018) for the first time on Amazon Prime. What a load of s**t!....actually The Rock is respectable in this ….but still...…. all the CG w*****y just undoes it all for me. And it has reminded me exactly why I can't wait to watch something else from the past lol! I was super-lucky (heh heh)--- I was just the right age to be completely blown away by the original Star Wars just years before- had a sadly bad experience with CLose Encounters (the schmucks at the front desk let us in during the last 10 minutes of the movie first, so I saw the ending before the build up).... but had the fantastic experience just a couple of years later with Superman. To add to the situation, the lack of VHS meant that you REALLY savored the experience as you felt like- there's no way to 'store' it ever for home viewing....so the movie memorabilia that could help you regain the feeling of the movie was somewhat sacred! Totally agree with you on everything you said there Mr CAM Envy you again on Close Encounters...….even if you did see it back to front---lol(have personally never seen that in the cinema) Also given the fact the theatrical version never made it to home video until 2007(on blu ray)…...then seeing it in 77' before Spielberg re-conformed it to the 1980 special edition...….probably gives your 1977 Close Encounters experience an added edge. Actually on a technical note......the theatrical 1977 cut was released on laserdisc in 1990......but Spielberg chose to leave one special edition shot(the shadow of a ufo bearing over a darkened countryside as Roy Neary drives his van) in the edit.....thereby invalidating it as the original theatrical version----lol I am still waiting for my Black Hole blu ray to arrive(ordered it from the US----I live in the UK) When it arrives hoping to do a 1979-1980 sci fi extravaganza(again only on Blu ray or UHD) Black Hole(released late 1979 and played into early 1980) Star Trek The Motion Picture(released late 1979 and played into early 1980) Alien(released mid 1979) Star Wars(re-released in 1979) Superman The Movie(played well into early 1979 after it's late 78' release) Close Encounters(released in 1980) Empire Strikes Back(released in mid 1980) Will be interesting how all these will feel like....playing them next to each other in my home theater. Just had the distinct privilege of witnessing Superman The Movie's unique qualities above the other 1978 flicks. One of the beauties of STM was that it had photorealistic environments where extraordinary things happen(may be Close Encounters also has these qualities)…..as opposed to something like Star Wars where extraordinary things happen in un-earthly environments. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 3, 2020 18:59:17 GMT -5
I was super-lucky (heh heh)--- I was just the right age to be completely blown away by the original Star Wars just years before- had a sadly bad experience with CLose Encounters (the schmucks at the front desk let us in during the last 10 minutes of the movie first, so I saw the ending before the build up).... but had the fantastic experience just a couple of years later with Superman. To add to the situation, the lack of VHS meant that you REALLY savored the experience as you felt like- there's no way to 'store' it ever for home viewing....so the movie memorabilia that could help you regain the feeling of the movie was somewhat sacred! Totally agree with you on everything you said there Mr CAM Envy you again on Close Encounters...….even if you did see it back to front---lol(have personally never seen that in the cinema) Also given the fact the theatrical version never made it to home video until 2007(on blu ray)…...then seeing it in 77' before Spielberg re-conformed it to the 1980 special edition...….probably gives your 1977 Close Encounters experience an added edge. Actually on a technical note......the theatrical 1977 cut was released on laserdisc in 1990......but Spielberg chose to leave one special edition shot(the shadow of a ufo bearing over a darkened countryside as Roy Neary drives his van) in the edit.....thereby invalidating it as the original theatrical version----lol I am still waiting for my Black Hole blu ray to arrive(ordered it from the US----I live in the UK) When it arrives hoping to do a 1979-1980 sci fi extravaganza(again only on Blu ray or UHD) Black Hole(released late 1979 and played into early 1980) Star Trek The Motion Picture(released late 1979 and played into early 1980) Alien(released mid 1979) Star Wars(re-released in 1979) Superman The Movie(played well into early 1979 after it's late 78' release) Close Encounters(released in 1980) Empire Strikes Back(released in mid 1980) Will be interesting how all these will feel like....playing them next to each other in my home theater. Just had the distinct privilege of witnessing Superman The Movie's unique qualities above the other 1978 flicks. One of the beauties of STM was that it had photorealistic environments where extraordinary things happen(may be Close Encounters also has these qualities)…..as opposed to something like Star Wars where extraordinary things happen in un-earthly environments. The CE3K I saw was in an old classic SF theatre with theatre organs! It was that classic (it had been torn down years later sadly). The sad thing agreed about vhs/dvd is that it kind of shrunk reissued films on the big screen. Glad that there were/are 'fathom' events, but the movies I want to see sadly are rarely chosen.... |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 4, 2020 16:36:14 GMT -5
Totally agree with you on everything you said there Mr CAM Envy you again on Close Encounters...….even if you did see it back to front---lol(have personally never seen that in the cinema) Also given the fact the theatrical version never made it to home video until 2007(on blu ray)…...then seeing it in 77' before Spielberg re-conformed it to the 1980 special edition...….probably gives your 1977 Close Encounters experience an added edge. Actually on a technical note......the theatrical 1977 cut was released on laserdisc in 1990......but Spielberg chose to leave one special edition shot(the shadow of a ufo bearing over a darkened countryside as Roy Neary drives his van) in the edit.....thereby invalidating it as the original theatrical version----lol I am still waiting for my Black Hole blu ray to arrive(ordered it from the US----I live in the UK) When it arrives hoping to do a 1979-1980 sci fi extravaganza(again only on Blu ray or UHD) Black Hole(released late 1979 and played into early 1980) Star Trek The Motion Picture(released late 1979 and played into early 1980) Alien(released mid 1979) Star Wars(re-released in 1979) Superman The Movie(played well into early 1979 after it's late 78' release) Close Encounters(released in 1980) Empire Strikes Back(released in mid 1980) Will be interesting how all these will feel like....playing them next to each other in my home theater. Just had the distinct privilege of witnessing Superman The Movie's unique qualities above the other 1978 flicks. One of the beauties of STM was that it had photorealistic environments where extraordinary things happen(may be Close Encounters also has these qualities)…..as opposed to something like Star Wars where extraordinary things happen in un-earthly environments. The CE3K I saw was in an old classic SF theatre with theatre organs! It was that classic (it had been torn down years later sadly). The sad thing agreed about vhs/dvd is that it kind of shrunk reissued films on the big screen. Glad that there were/are 'fathom' events, but the movies I want to see sadly are rarely chosen.... That's why I am recreating those Fathom events.....in my own home theater! And with Blu ray (or UHD) you can now see these flicks in even better quality than the traditional 4th gen 35mm prints that are used for such events. Just rifling through that batch of 1979-80 sci-fi list of films over the last few days. One thing I do miss is that big event / anticipation that built up towards the release of these types of films. Even mis fires like Moonraker or The Black Hole have that big event aura about them. And the ones that did get it right like STM or Star wars are the reason why we talk about them now....40 years after their initial release. |
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 4, 2020 19:39:26 GMT -5
The CE3K I saw was in an old classic SF theatre with theatre organs! It was that classic (it had been torn down years later sadly). The sad thing agreed about vhs/dvd is that it kind of shrunk reissued films on the big screen. Glad that there were/are 'fathom' events, but the movies I want to see sadly are rarely chosen.... That's why I am recreating those Fathom events.....in my own home theater! And with Blu ray (or UHD) you can now see these flicks in even better quality than the traditional 4th gen 35mm prints that are used for such events. Just rifling through that batch of 1979-80 sci-fi list of films over the last few days. One thing I do miss is that big event / anticipation that built up towards the release of these types of films. Even mis fires like Moonraker or The Black Hole have that big event aura about them. And the ones that did get it right like STM or Star wars are the reason why we talk about them now....40 years after their initial release. I was lucky to have had a trio of 'big dome theatres' that housed these events back in the day.... so many great memories of those experiences in the theatres during those years when Star Wars and Speilberg's projects pretty much pushed all the studios to put big budgets into fantasy films for a solid decade or so--- and have continued pretty much to today! (Though it was a bigger event back then when people would camp out/ pre-cellphone and whatnot!) The crowd/rock concert experience is/was greatly missed. I kind of get that with Wondercon (which is one of the 'big but not too big' comic cons that still had friendly folks--- but for a number of summers, the combination of friendly franchises (Star Trek, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc.) and pre-youtube the big screen scifi movies still had that event charm.... while the Marvel movies have retained some of it, it's still not exactly the same as 'that time', because of various factors. |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Aug 28, 2020 16:48:29 GMT -5
One thing I noted but forgot to describe on this thread after watching all those 1978 flicks in quick succession a few weeks back...….. is the music!
Halloween has Carpenter's keyboards
Days Of Heaven had Morricone's elegant but simple orchestral melody
Dawn Of The Dead had that funky Goblin soundtrack
Every Which Way But Loose had a few charming mid western bar tunes
King Of The Gypsies had some nice Gypsie sounding guitar riffs
Coming Home used some Rolling Stones songs
Deer Hunter does not have much music at all!
Fine tunes all.....
But STM's score is sweeping and huge.....can't believe Williams did not get the Oscar for this one.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Aug 28, 2020 18:40:03 GMT -5
One thing I noted but forgot to describe on this thread after watching all those 1978 flicks in quick succession a few weeks back...….. is the music! Halloween has Carpenter's keyboards Days Of Heaven had Morricone's elegant but simple orchestral melody Dawn Of The Dead had that funky Goblin soundtrack Every Which Way But Loose had a few charming mid western bar tunes King Of The Gypsies had some nice Gypsie sounding guitar riffs Coming Home used some Rolling Stones songs Deer Hunter does not have much music at all! Fine tunes all..... But STM's score is sweeping and huge.....can't believe Williams did not get the Oscar for this one. To me what's bizzare is who won for the years that STM and Star Trek's scores were nominated... For 1980/Star Trek's year: "A Little Romance" won For 1979/Midngith Express- Giorgio Moroder- (Heaven Can Wait I admit was nice that year, too, but...) On the flip side.... Superman's music is embedded in so much of media & maybe even moreso with Jerry Goldsmith's Star Trek theme used for so many seasons of Star Trek: Next Gen! Would have been nice if they won, but in a lot of way the composers got a bigger prize with the exposure by being tied into pop icons that'll be around a long time... |
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Dec 29, 2020 8:22:26 GMT -5
On a slightly different subject but still related........ With regards to the fidelity/resolution of the UHD HDR 4K disc for STM. HDR is a slightly misunderstood concept. Most people think that it refers to a generally brighter image(and it can do). But it really is the range from the darkest dark(without inducing black crush) to the brightest whites(without clipping detail in those bright whites) which is where it really makes a difference..........allied to the extra resolution and increased color gamut it gives an overall more palatable image........but sometimes these advantages are not really noticed until you do side by side comparisons. The 2 pictures below demonstrate 4K HDR's efficacy whilst also displaying how subtle and nuanced these advantages can be. Below are screen caps from the missile hijack sequence. In isolation the 2011 blu ray(which is still an excellent transfer in it's own right) looks punchy and sharp. But when compared with the 4K blu ray you see how much information is obscured in the bright highlights aswell as how much extra delineation with regards to detail there is in a 4K transfer from the original camera negative. The 2011 STM Blu Ray  The 4K HDR UHD  The 35mm 4th generation theatrical prints(and the 70mm blow ups) of 1978 would have been more akin to the 2011 Blu ray---but the 35mm prints would most likely have had less detail and more crush in the shadow areas of the image and even more blown out highlights with respect to the 2011 Blu ray. Although these variances would have differed literally from print to print in 78'. Still whichever high resolution format you view STM in(35mm,70mm,Blu Ray or 4kUHD)....it's a great looking movie and in my opinion deserved the oscar for cinematography above Terence Mallick's Days Of Heaven(although that is also a formidably beautifully shot film too). |
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-----having said that there were other kids born in an around that time.....for whom SIV was their first Superman movie......and they loved it......including Oliver Harper(another Cambridge native):
