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Post by MAVERICK on May 16, 2011 17:04:49 GMT -5
Um, Kev? Dude? The music comment was said in ribbing jest & laughter & was more about our community's collective love of all things Donnerverse. So, um, please, calm the fuck down. ;D No one called you sheep. Once again the inability of the internet to show attitude & intent reigns supreme. As far as the rest of the comments go, they don't apply to me. I DID watch the finale. I DID want to like it. I LOVED the first season or so. It got worse & worse until I hated it. But I still wanted to see it go out with a bang & satisfy me. It didn't. I thought it sucked hard. Sorry.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2011 20:24:19 GMT -5
Hey, to each their own. Though I can't recall you saying one positive thing about Smallville, like...ever.
And regarding the harmless jabbing, you and Jimbo both seemed pretty dickish about it. Sorry about flying off about something you didn't clearly say was a joke, which I personally don't think you were really kidding about. But that's that, let's move on.
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Post by MAVERICK on May 16, 2011 20:34:52 GMT -5
Hey, to each their own. Though I can't recall you saying one positive thing about Smallville, like...ever. Dude, I used to have my boss at the record store I was working at adjust my schedule so that I would be off on Smallville nights. I was a huge cheerleader for the show in its first 2 seasons. I couldn't defend it anymore after awhile & jumped ship shortly after Reeve's appearance. The reason you can remember me ever saying anything good about it, is because its been on for a decade & has sucked for almost as long. ;D ;D ;D It started sucking long before this version of the board happened, so, no, I haven't liked it on here. But I certainly did in the past. Sigh, Kev.......(Stan from South Park voice) seriously dude? How did we seem anything? You cant hear the text or see our faces to ascertain intent. That said, we've all been guilty many times of reading more into a post than was actually intended. So, whatever. I's all good. We meant no harm. We meant only what I said.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2011 20:35:32 GMT -5
teehee
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Post by stargazer01 on May 17, 2011 16:05:03 GMT -5
The first three seasons of Chuck had a REALLY smart balance of fantasy/humor/seriousness--- the thing with fantastic premises, is that it's so easy to go overboard in any direction. (which Chuck we agreed did AFTER season 3)Joss Whedon (and Ronald D. Moore to a degree) get giant credit because they've also been in charge of fantasy/scifi shows that were able to be about something & know how to also balance those elements- . Yeah well said. BTW, saw the season 4 finale of Chuck last night...........  ;D Did you see it? Weakest finale in the whole series by far. But then again this has been the weakest season too, imo. I didn't hate it overall, but the last few minutes left me really concerned for the impact these 2 twists could cause to the whole series..... Sigh. Not very hopeful, though. Oh, in case you didn't know, Chuck was renewed for a fifth and FINAL season of 13 episodes to wrap things up. |
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Post by Paul (ral) on May 17, 2011 17:51:10 GMT -5
Like a lot of you I have been watching Smallville since it started. My fiance and I moved in together around about the time Season 5 started (I got a bootleg boxset of seasons 1-4 and we watched a few episodes a day so she could catch up). It is one of the few tv shows that we watched together in all our time together.
Looking back at the first few seasons...man, so much happened in them. They were great. At the time it seemed entirely possible that the series would tie into the mythology we all knew seamlessly - padding everything out. The freak of the week aspect didn't bother me back then. The use of kryptonite as a source of villians was fairly clever I thought...especially as I didn't expect to see major villians and a series that just focused on Clark handling to life with powers would be pretty boring. We were teased with the William's theme every now and then. Clark hovered in his sleep and he became more powerful. All this kept us watching. Waiting for Superman.
After that, especially with the introduction of Lois, Lex finding out Clark's secret and all the Clana crap, the series went down hill - stretching out the enivitable transition to Superman. It did have high points from seasons 4-10, especially in the later, though most involved villians who were too powerful for a flightless, doubting Clark and shouldn't have been there - Brainaic, Doomsday, Zod and Darkseid. All these teased us that Clark would step up to the plate of his destiny. All this kept us watching. Waiting for Superman.
In that was Smallville's problem. We all know it went on too long (to the point that Michael Rosenbaum got bored quoting Greek mythology and shaving his head; and left). There were too many episodes were they seemed to go nuts and copy other films...we had a Matrix episode, a Hangover episode. You could usually tell in the first minute if the episode was filler (which usually had my fiance and I turn to each other and facepalm).
And so I watched the finale. Geninuely excited. Waiting to see Clark put on the suit. Having read a bit about it before-hand I had and idea of what to expect. As a finale it cleared everything up. It killed off the people it was supposed to and wiped the memories of others. It was a rushed mess at times. How convient that all the loose ends would be tied up just as Clark becomes Superman. The last season should have been about tying up those loose ends...it shouldn't have been left to the last 90 minutes (actually the last 30 minutes).
Now I won't lie. I was holding back tears for some reason as Clark was given the suit in the fortress. Jor-El's speech was perfect and Jonathan handing Clark the suit saying "Always hold onto Smallville" was excellent. Maybe that whole scene was worth waiting 10 years for. Just maybe.
However let's remember what kept me watching these past 10 years...I was waiting for Superman. Waiting to see Tom Welling in the suit and have Williams' theme in the background. As the years rolled on and Williams' theme became absent from the show I was expecting to just see Welling in the suit.
And that's why ultimitely, despite being very emotional during the fortress scene, the finale was a failure for me - no Welling in the suit. I can accept that the super-feats were CGI for a tv shows budget but Welling never putting on the suit is unacceptable.
We should be asking why. Really we should. Think about it. Who wouldn't want to have Superman standing in an iconic shot (perhaps on top of the Daily Planet - which should have been the final scene btw, not a shirt-rip)?
Nobody.
So why didn't they?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 17:57:00 GMT -5
It was never the intent of the show to show Superman in full costume. Literally, never. Why would you think otherwise? No one said he was going to be in it fully. We're lucky we got anything with the S on it. Eh...this is like shooting a bb-gun at a brickwall. All I can say is I was very happy with the finale. It's unfortunate that very few agree. Surprising in a way but not really. You all wanted a full shot of the full suit when it was said he'd never wear it. Your own damn fault.  |
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Post by Paul (ral) on May 17, 2011 18:03:22 GMT -5
That's fine Kev...it's called Smallville. No tight's, no flights...then end the series without him becoming Superman.
The fact that they make him Superman but don't show him in costume is my problem with the finale!
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Post by Jimbo on May 17, 2011 18:10:24 GMT -5
Why didn't Welling wear the suit? It probably didn't fit him.
They used Routh's suit from SR, so they obviously didn't want to spend the money on designing a new one for 10 seconds of footage. That being said, they had to work around the fact that the suit was not designed for Welling's body.
That's my guess anyway.
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Post by Paul (ral) on May 17, 2011 18:17:42 GMT -5
I don't buy it. They had a whole season to make a suit fit. They could have done it. I wonder if it is a legal thing? There was trouble with the Siegel/Shuster estates in the past with Smallville and use of "Superboy" www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=6800Were WB worried about the image of Welling in a full suit being a legal issue? |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 18:55:08 GMT -5
You make very good points, ral. They really shouldn't have shown any kind of Superman stuff, maybe just the flight out of the Fortress and the shirt rip out at the end. I can obviously see why it's disappointing to so many, but I truly expected nothing. It's quite frankly surprising that they used Superman so much in it, even in CGI. Definitely didn't see that stuff coming at all. And I say so much even though it's barely anything. But yeah. Valid complaints of course. Part of me agrees for sure, the part that wanted Welling in the full suit but the other part of me, the overall Superman fan, wins out.
And Welling DEFINITELY couldn't have fit in the suit. Whether he had it on or not during the scene where he and Lois smile at each other thru the plane window, he's wearing a blue top, and it looks too big for him even then.
While Welling slimmed down for the finale, (I immediately noticed he looked waaaay thinner than the previous episode) I don't think he's ever been near Routh's build. Maybe just bulkier if anything.
I don't want to make it seem like I thought it was all flawless, I can easily understand why people weren't happy with it, regardless of what was expected, I mean it IS fucking stupid that we didn't get the suit shot, but...eh...what can ya do...
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Post by Paul (ral) on May 17, 2011 19:07:45 GMT -5
but...eh...what can ya do... very true. btw, i also noticed Welling was thinner, especially when he was talking to Lois through the locked door. |
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Post by supereagle7 on May 17, 2011 19:34:56 GMT -5
hey guys wondered if you had seen this link posted on Supermanhomepage gregbeeman.blogspot.com/2011/05/end.htmlGreg Beeman the director of the second half of the finale. Some interesting info and pics to go along. Surprisingly he doesn't mention the superman cgi stuff. Also alot of people are questioning him about not seeing the suit. |
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Post by charl on May 17, 2011 22:13:10 GMT -5
he didn't even want his hair to look Superman (i.e. slicked back with front split curl) that they gave him a ridiculous close-up where he's cropped off at the forehead
i'd understand if he doesn't want to be seen in the suit, but we're even denied the headshot? .... that's just plain ridiculous!
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on May 18, 2011 4:28:53 GMT -5
Excellent blog, thanks for posting
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 18, 2011 12:22:28 GMT -5
The blog mentions how Welling would insist on some things & refused to do others--- wonder if that applied to the suit? If so, that's more than a bit irritating, as fans have made it pretty clear over the years that that's what they've wanted to see all along. O well....... there's always rotoscoping..... |
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on May 18, 2011 13:01:54 GMT -5
This reminds of the scenario of dating a girl and telling her right from the start that you don't want anything serious, then she falls in love with you, so you have to break it off as you never promised her anything in the first place.
They always said "no tights, so flights" so if you don't see that then why complain? If people watched the show for 10 years because they believe they deserved to see him in the suit because of all the references and foreshadowing then they are fools for doing so.
It delivered what it promised (more so IMO to be truthful)
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Post by stargazer01 on May 18, 2011 13:14:02 GMT -5
Honestly, I think Welling simply didn't want to be seen in the suit because he was really afraid of being typecast.
He even said it in that video I posted some time ago during the promotion of The Fog (2005); he said that by staying out of the tights, he could still have a chance of a career.
I don't think he's a Superman fan. I don't think he really cared how the fans of the show and him felt. He KNEW those fans really wanted to see him finally as Superman as the real payoff, at least for a minute! But nothing. I think he just wanted a pay check.
He also said that the show was about Clark Kent. But this Clark Kent was basically acting and doing things that the Superman character is supposed to do. It's a big contradiction, it doesn't make sense. Come on, he fought freakin DOOMSDAY! Well, he just pushed him. ;D IMO, it was all just EXCUSES.
Or maybe WB didn't want him in the suit all along, but they didn't tell the fans because then they'd quit watching the show and they couldn't allow that... nah, I just think the show wanted to keep their cake and eat it, but that usually doesn't work.
Any way, I kinda feel bad for those fans that were expecting that payoff but didn't really get it. They invested so many years waiting for it, and IMO they were robbed of it. I'd be pissed too if I was a fan.
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ye5man
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Post by ye5man on May 18, 2011 13:47:53 GMT -5
Then why play the same character for 10 years?
He's not. He purposely didn't read the comics so not to feel overwhelmed, can't blame him
Agreed.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on May 18, 2011 14:16:09 GMT -5
I think fans who supported the show financially (and gave Welling and company their livelihood--- unless, of course, "Cheaper by the Dozen" sequels were in store forever)-- deserved a voice, which--- over many other tv shows, in the age of the internet- they've actually had more influence (Battlestar Galactica's showrunner, for one, mentioned more than once how the internet has actually pushed the writers to make a better show by listening to them).
Fools? When a show has a credit in the beginning saying that it's based on a character whose signature is the costume, I think it's only reasonable to think that there would be that possibility to see him in costume.
Now, I was foolish to think that the showrunners (and perhaps Welling) wouldn't feel arrogant enough to deny what the supporters have hoped for. But then again, the show all along has kind of had an underlying attitude that it was embarrassed by its costumes- but that seemed to change with the Justice Society- so, again, another reason it gave hope for those who wanted to see that image of Welling in the suit.
In that regard, perhaps those of us are fools. But it's better than being arrogant to supporters who paid their rent all these years, imo.
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Post by Paul (ral) on May 18, 2011 15:05:59 GMT -5
The no flights no tights mantra was used at the start when the series had no intention of dragging itself out for 10 years. Since then we have had flights. And in the finale a poorly revealed Superman in tights.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 15:22:01 GMT -5
To be fair, though, it was never actually Clark flying, under his own control, before the finale.
Awful defense.
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Knight
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Post by Knight on May 18, 2011 16:02:46 GMT -5
reading comments on this discussion,yea...the finale had it's flaws,like it's previous 9 years. But I still say that I enjoyed it. We were always told ''no tights no flights''.
I wasn't expecting a Superman movie...I was expecting a Smallville finale which is what we got. Highs and lows.
Smallville ends with Superman. That'll do me.
I'am surprised we got as much as we dead really considering WB will soon start pedaling Synderman.
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Post by ger-el on May 18, 2011 16:36:53 GMT -5
The SR costume was in the fortress, but that is not exactly what Welling held in his hands. Look at the S on the costume he holds. It looks more rubbery and has less texture. Look at the shirt rip at the end, it is the same smoother S.
They could have had Welling in the suit, but didn't. I personally think it had a great deal to do with Welling not wanting to be in the suit. I don't think it had anything to do with not having a suit that fit. The returns suit probably didn't fit, and that is why they had a suit with a different S. But this was not the reason for the lack of a full shot.
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Post by Jor-L5150 on May 18, 2011 17:15:30 GMT -5
It was never the intent of the show to show Superman in full costume. Literally, never. Why would you think otherwise? No one said he was going to be in it fully. We're lucky we got anything with the S on it.
Eh...this is like shooting a bb-gun at a brickwall. All I can say is I was very happy with the finale. It's unfortunate that very few agree. Surprising in a way but not really. You all wanted a full shot of the full suit when it was said he'd never wear it. Your own damn fault. I don't want to make it seem like I thought it was all flawless, I can easily understand why people weren't happy with it, regardless of what was expected, I mean it IS fucking stupid that we didn't get the suit shot, but...eh...what can ya do... the problem i and many others had, was that it was "have-cake/eat-it-to" all over again. was smallville a consistant show? NO. but, i love star trek, and the quality of star trek is all over the map, so with smallville, i liked it a LOT at first, it just lasted too long, and the finale was UNfulfilling. looking at those posts you're stepping into both sides. on one hand its: " it was never about the suit- don't you know anything? " ont he other it's : " well you had EVERY OTHER DAMN THING ASSOCIATED WITH SUPERMAN AND YOU COULDN'T GET THIS RIGHT?" can't have it both ways. it's a superman show. i WANT it to be good. even though i dropped out at season 4 i looked in now and then, and i HOPED the end would be good. actually, much of it was entertaining- but when it MATTERED- it failed. nice to tie up loose ends, nice to dove tail the romance angle- but when it mattered it was alet-down. this whole " not about the suit its about the journey" is a frail and tiresome excuse. that may have been the ORIGINAL premise, but then it got milked for a few more seasons! we have : - the smallville high school years- CHECK - college - CHECK - work at daily planet ( we must be close!) - CHECK - move on from lana, to lois - CHECK - death of pa kent - CHECK - developed and honing powers - CHECK - now all of that COULD be "about the journey", but then we got: - creates an alternate persona - CHECK - encounters other superheroes, IN COSTUME - CHECK ( which is backwards, HE is supposed to inspire THEM) - JSA/JL/Legion CHECK - phantom zone/ Zod. -CHECK - engaged to lois -CHECK - fortress of solitude, Jor-EL- CHECK - doomsday. doomsday. seriously. doomsday. CHECK - supergirl CHECK - the new gods. CHECK - wears the SUIT? " it's not about that, you don't 'get-it' " it's like a palm-job that never gets there, then has the nerve to say "it's not about the climax" (for ten years) |
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;D Did you see it? 
