Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 10, 2024 12:15:16 GMT -5
X2 succeed over the first because they had a much better storyline to base itself on, which was the highly praised standalone graphic novel God Loves, Man Kills. That combined with the tease of the Dark Phoenix storyline was perfect recipe to deliver a “Wrath of Khan.” A storyline which was shepherded through development for the film BY SINGER. He was still the director and the writers had to follow his lead. He could have screwed that up or he could have pulled it off. He pulled it off. The writers weren’t working autonomously though. Singer, the producers, and the studio had to DECIDE and AGREE to go with that particular storyline. It wasn’t just thrust on all of them and they were forced to use it. Singer and WB could have done the same thing with SR. Even if God Loves Man Kills was a good story we’ve seen directors and studios screw up good source material before. The FoX-men era of films alone is littered with examples of that happening. It had to be adapted well and executed well and Singer and his writers did that. There were plenty of “threads” left untied by Superman Returns that could have been developed for a sequel. Not just the kid but the fact that there was a massive new planetary body made of alien materials now floating around in the solar system and the chaos that would cause on a locally cosmic scale as well as any attention that might attract from any number of outside forces. Pretty big scale. At the end of SR they made a point to update us on just what happened to that huge piece of rock made up of Kryptonite and Kryptonian Crystal and that wasn’t done on accident. I’m even pretty sure they say that it’s STILL GROWING after it’s settled into its own orbit around the sun. If WE can notice such real cosmic changes and events now from our real world in our own universe do you really think no one or no thing wouldn’t notice something like that happening in the fictional universe of Superman? If anything they’d pick up on it even more easily. And if Singer wanted to or the studio wanted to any number of good comic book storylines could have been attached to that to develop as a sequel. The “angry god” thing didn’t work because Snyder is a hack and his execution of the idea was poor not because it was a bad idea. It’s all about the execution and the people doing it.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 10, 2024 0:21:18 GMT -5
Another problem is that Singer kept saying he was gonna go all Wrath of Khan on the follow up to Returns. That’s what blindly led people to think that this was gonna be like the Star Trek films where they had a lackluster start with The Motion Picture and rebounded with the sequel. The fallacy with the mentality is that a Wrath of Khan was possible because they got rid of the key individuals that made The Motion Picture the way it was. So, in a sense, we got that in the form of Man of Steel that thought the way to appeal to audiences was be treated as the next great DC based film series following up from Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy. Of course, we saw how little faith there was when it all snowballed with the addition of Batman that spelled harsh desperation that led to our ultimate despair. Not exactly. The difference there is at least Singer had shown in the past, before he even made Superman Returns, that he could come back and make a better written, more action packed sequel and better film the second time with X2. X-men was a far better film than Superman Returns but X-men did suffer some of the same complaints and issues Returns did. They were just more severe with Returns. It’s not really a one to one comparison with The Motion Picture/Wrath of Khan dynamic. Singer was simply using Wrath of Khan as an example of what he’d do and unlike Roddenberry and everyone behind Star Trek: TMP he probably understood what he needed to do to the next film and he could adjust. For all we know he could have come back and made it work. Roddenberry on the other hand had become so far removed creatively from what made the original Star Trek series work by then that he was part of the problem. He also didn’t have many of the same people with him that made the TV show work when Paramount finally did make TMP. By the 80s it was clear that the less involved Gene was with the day to day running of Star Trek the better it could be. Also Star Trek II at least kept what worked from TMP. MOS didn’t do that with SR (if anything it doubled down on what DIDN’T work). It was too extreme a shift in the opposite direction when it came to certain things. An overreaction. TWOK found a balance and got back to the core of what made the Trek franchise work in the first place. MOS was a dismissal of what made the franchise work in the first place. So again it’s not a one to one comparison.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 9, 2024 13:45:43 GMT -5
The exact same thing happened when Superman Returns came out. Every criticism that’s common place today was whisked away with a “it will all be paid off in the next one.” It was much worse with MOS though. Some people here did what you said but many didn’t. Even some of the people who gave MOS a pass endlessly criticized Superman Returns for the same issues like being too dreary looking, too boring, too violent for a Superman movie, too CGI heavy, no chemistry between the leads, and rehashing plot elements from previous Superman films. That's a double standard. One guy here even said Superman getting stabbed in the side by Luthor in SR was too violent for kids and had no place in a Superman film but completely ignored the violence in MOS which was ten times worse and much of it actually perpetrated by Superman himself. That's what leaves an even more sour taste with MOS. It's got many of the same flaws as SR but none of the positives. It's got more action but somehow it's still boring. There was never the same level of outrage that SR didn’t get a sequel compared to MOS not getting one. There was also never the same level of outrage over Routh being shown the door compared to Cavill even though Routh never got as many appearances in the role as Cavill did.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2024 9:47:22 GMT -5
If we were so wrong about MoS and Cavill,please explain: - Why hasn't there been MoS2 yet, even after 11 years? - Why was Cavill replaced as Superman? And also: - Who exactly were the mysterious Reeve Only People? Try to answer please A lot of people drank the kool-aid when it came to MOS and didn’t want dissenting opinions killing their buzz. Very much head in the sand mentality. Every questionable element was excused whenever some people could see the problems coming. I remember one particular former member saying we should support MOS as much as possible even if it was bad just so we could get more movies. I said that was stupid and equivalent of supporting sh!t so WB could give us more sh!t. MOS was a failed experiment even though it had everything going for it, every advantage, and the only reason Cavill stuck around as long as he did was as because it was part of a shared universe. Even if MOS never got a sequel there was still a place for him. Otherwise he would have been a one and done like Brandon Routh.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2024 9:35:29 GMT -5
To this day, I'm open to be proven wrong (I loved the original trailer to MOS, not the movie)- but so far, only felt that Donner and Singer had the best take & the best update take.... Some of the sillier stuff, like multiple 's's on the costume, duller color, etc- I give a pass to, because they're pretty minor changes compared to what was to follow- and he kept the Donner stuff (mostly) as canon. You mean the costume(s)? The Superman suit in the Donner film was classic. So classic that others basically stuck to it for years. Perfect colors and a placement of each element. I don’t hate the SR costume but it had too many flaws and made design choices that were the polar opposite of the STM costume and it didn’t work even if SR wasn’t some vague quasi continuation of the Donner films. I didn’t mind the texture on the SR costume since that’s par for the course these days but almost every other part of the suit had some flaw that stuck out. Routh’s suit for Crisis fixed every problem the SR had and kept some of the elements that worked. It’s probably the best modern Superman suit made yet. The only problem with it was the overly done muscle padding.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2024 9:26:40 GMT -5
So- Superman: Legacy, will now just be 'Superman'- But.... should it be? Other possible titles? I liked Legacy (maybe or maybe not coincidentally that was the title of the final episode of Superman: TAS) but I can see why they changed it. They probe it wanted people to think this is a new first entry in a new series and not some sequel. I’m fine with it being just “Superman.”
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 2, 2024 20:28:33 GMT -5
I'm sure that if we just wait a bit longer, Selutron will release the final S2 If the pace for its development stays as consistent as it has been I won’t live long enough to see it.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 2, 2024 11:41:16 GMT -5
On one hand, horrified horrified horrified at AI and the lack of controls over the damage it can cause... On the other hand... If anyone knows/has access to AI, can they finally restore the missing unshot Donner scenes and make a fan cut? In all seriousness it absolutely could be done. Between deepfakes, AI, and voice synthesis WB could not only finish those scenes but do it with facsimiles of the actors too. Creating the bigger set pieces would be the easy part but the technology is finally at the point that they could finish the scenes and make it all pretty seamless if they do it right. The biggest problems that arise are financial and moral. I doubt WB would be willing to invest enough time or money to do something like this the right way. The industry’s financial and business models have changed so much that they’d probably be even more hesitant to put in the proper resources to take another shot at finishing Superman II the way some fans would want. Then there are the moral complications. Emotions were pretty mixed on The Flash’s nostalgic “cameos” even if you exclude the quality of the work. The same would be true for a redo of Superman II. Some would be fine with it being attempted. Others would be offended and outraged. There’s already enough of that anyway.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2024 17:51:20 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2024 10:28:02 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 29, 2024 19:39:45 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 19, 2024 21:30:26 GMT -5
Ok one new and one slightly wider shot of Routh as Superman.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 19, 2024 21:18:49 GMT -5
Sucked big time. Caused all kinds of problems. Was the start of a huge mess for WB and DC. ALL the fears of Snyder proved to be accurate.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 6, 2024 13:14:34 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Feb 2, 2024 12:35:55 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 31, 2024 8:41:42 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 29, 2024 19:57:08 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 28, 2024 0:42:57 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 25, 2024 13:10:15 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 25, 2024 13:07:52 GMT -5
Superman III special hosted by Leonard Nimoy.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 25, 2024 12:49:06 GMT -5
Do they make Flashpoint? What if that is met with the same reception as JL and audiences don't show up? Something like that would cost big money if they do it even close to the scale of the comic book story. Lots of questions. Well we know how this turned out now.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 24, 2024 16:03:37 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 24, 2024 11:58:34 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 22, 2024 15:27:08 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Jan 20, 2024 17:47:03 GMT -5
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