Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 1, 2016 12:01:14 GMT -5
That tugging in different directions of the characters could help or hurt DC and DC films if they do or don't know how to deal with it. Like you said everyone has their own idea of what these characters are. I think WB knows if they let someone like Berlanti use these characters on tv it could offer alternatives that makes people happy with stuff all around or it could blow up in their faces and work against them. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when we have situations like Grant Gustin and Ezra Miller as Barry Allen popping up more and more. It happened recently with Katana too. I kept looking and wondering if I liked the tv or movie version better? Which actress will be better? Which costume looks better? I wanted to mix and match because I thought one did certain things better than the other. Some people will love both but some people will have a preference.
My problems with Man of Steel weren't so much about the concepts but the execution. If they'd executed what they were going for better I'd have liked it more. I think a lot of people took the wrong things from the whole MOS issues and debate on all sides.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 2, 2016 2:58:19 GMT -5
I like parts of MOS a LOT, but as a whole, it got bungled here and there by Snyder in a similar fashion to how he didn't quite get Watchmen right either imo.
On the flip side, I am digging some of the toys. The $20 Bat Lego Man and Superman 'lawn dwarfs' from Target are great, couildn't resist.
And.... finally there's a Wonder Woman movie.
"Better than nothing", I keep reminding myself. Hope I'm right...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 2, 2016 9:47:23 GMT -5
Snyder's got his strengths for sure. His look for Batman and his world is great to me. But he also has his weaknesses. If people would just admit that and work on the weaknesses we could get some great movies. As of now it just seems like they're trying to patch the problem instead of making the changes needed. Maybe they did but we won't really know until we've seen BvS. Snyder should be an effects supervisor or head of production design. That's where he shines. Story, writing, acting, character and things like that? He tends to trip up.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 2, 2016 12:23:35 GMT -5
"300" I think worked great (mostly) because it was primarily a visual fairy tale/ mtv movie under Snyder.
"Watchmen" is admirable for slavish attention to visual details and actually getting made- but the whole point of the story (imo) got derailed and the drama was flat or felt false. When you have the best source material and you muck it up, it's hard not to blame the director!
"Sucker Punch" which he wrote/directed was pretty to watch, but painful to endure storywise.... so, it didn't help his case, imo....
So- when hooked up with Goyer, sometimes they had great bits but overall the drama - much like "Watchmen" - felt forced and false throughout, despite a good cast. With Batfleck involved in BvS, and with Batfleck rewriting his own parts, there's more hope.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 2, 2016 14:02:42 GMT -5
Goyer is the Vince Russo of comic book movies. Look him up and that'll explain the reference. Goyer has some good ideas but he has some crap ones too. He needs to work with a talented boss that can tell them apart and pick the gold out of the pools of sh**. On his own Goyers work is pretty weak. Someone like Snyder has the problems. It's like two really bad junkies getting together to try to get each other clean. Watchmen...oy...it looks cool but misses the point so often. Snyder glorified the action when in some scenes it's supposed to be anything but. The costumes are SUPPOSED to look ridiculous not cool rubber or latex padded suits. Nite Owl isn't supposed to look badass or glamorous in the prison fight. He's a slightly overweight guy in spandex. The book wasn't about these spectacular wire fu sequences of enhanced physicality. It was supposed to be realistic violence. That's why it's a deconstruction. Oh and by the Snyder doesn't know what that means. He called Ozys costume a deconstruction of superhero movie costumes like the ones in Schumachers Batman movies.... Uh...Whot? Dafuq??? Now I wouldn't even mind ANY of that if he and other people hadn't talked about how incredibly faithful the movie is to the comic. Those are examples where it's not only not faithful to the comic but it's the antithesis of the comic. I always thought a true adaptation of the comic would look more like a dark gritty 70s or 80s crime film in the vein of Sidney Lumet or William Friedkin or even Brian DePalma. Imagine those guys directing Watchmen or John Carpenter directing Watchmen. I always felt Watchmen should have been shot like that if they wanted a faithful look and not the darkly lit overly filtered Bayesque cgi gloss of Snyder. The film was set in a decaying 1980s New York. The work of the directors I mentioned captures that look perfectly. Again I don't mind the changes but if you're gonna make changes you should follow through. I love most of the costumes and prefer them to the comics but it's not the comics so don't sell it as that. Change the Squid ending? Great. I never thought it would work visually speaking. But when you make changes you should try to keep the core of the work intact. In Snyder's film if Dr Manhattan wanted to keep the peace he had no choice but to leave Earth otherwise the world would be gripped by the hair trigger tension of the people and governments. They'd be united. United in their fear of him and the fear that he'd destroy them all. With Batman v Superman he at least admits the comic is the comic and the movie is the movie. One influences the other but the movie isn't some direct adaptation of TDKR.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 2, 2016 14:14:33 GMT -5
Goyer is the Vince Russo of comic book movies. Look him up and that'll explain the reference. Goyer has some good ideas but he has some crap ones too. He needs to work with a talented boss that can tell them apart and pick the gold out of the pools of sh**. On his own Goyers work is pretty weak. Someone like Snyder has the problems. It's like two really bad junkies getting together to try to get each other clean. Watchmen...oy...it looks cool but misses the point so often. Snyder glorified the action when in some scenes it's supposed to be anything but. The costumes are SUPPOSED to look ridiculous not cool rubber or latex padded suits. Nite Owl isn't supposed to look badass or glamorous in the prison fight. He's a slightly overweight guy in spandex. The book wasn't about these spectacular wire fu sequences of enhanced physicality. It was supposed to be realistic violence. That's why it's a deconstruction. Oh and by the Snyder doesn't know what that means. He called Ozys costume a deconstruction of superhero movie costumes like the ones in Schumachers Batman movies.... Uh...Whot? Dafuq??? Now I wouldn't even mind ANY of that if he and other people hadn't talked about how incredibly faithful the movie is to the comic. Those are examples where it's not only not faithful to the comic but it's the antithesis of the comic. I always thought a true adaptation of the comic would look more like a dark gritty 70s or 80s crime film in the vein of Sidney Lumet or William Friedkin or even Brian DePalma. Imagine those guys directing Watchmen or John Carpenter directing Watchmen. I always felt Watchmen should have been shot like that if they wanted a faithful look and not the darkly lit overly filtered Bayesque cgi gloss of Snyder. The film was set in a decaying 1980s New York. The work of the directors I mentioned captures that look perfectly. Again I don't mind the changes but if you're gonna make changes you should follow through. I love most of the costumes and prefer them to the comics but it's not the comics so don't sell it as that. Change the Squid ending? Great. I never thought it would work visually speaking. But when you make changes you should try to keep the core of the work intact. In Snyder's film if Dr Manhattan wanted to keep the peace he had no choice but to leave Earth otherwise the world would be gripped by the hair trigger tension of the people and governments. They'd be united. United in their fear of him and the fear that he'd destroy them all. With Batman v Superman he at least admits the comic is the comic and the movie is the movie. One influences the other but the movie isn't some direct adaptation of TDKR. Agreed. The look was fantastic, and I thought Snyder would have been great for an Avengers or JLA movie- actionwise. (Still do) ... but you're right. The Watchmen is the opposite of looking cool doing superheroics. Terry Gilliam's sensibilities would have been interesting, as most of his films have that odd mix of horror, comedy, and madness. Paul Greengrass for Watchmen also would have been fascinating- and for sure, more moving than what we got. I don't get phased much by filmmaker's overhyping their work.... but it is interesting how the best filmmakers seem the most humble and truthful. Hm.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 2, 2016 14:24:43 GMT -5
Snyder's got his priorities screwed up. The best directors are storytellers. It's a visual medium and he's a visual guy but he's not so concerned with putting it together in the best way to tell those stories.
The people you mentioned aren't as concerned with cgi and filters but they are better overall craftsmen and storytellers. Especially Gilliam. He's got s unique vision too but he deserves that "visionary" tag far more than Snyder. Gilliam is a filmmaker that pushed boundaries and broke some new ground
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 3, 2016 10:55:43 GMT -5
Agreed. It's sad that his films struggle so much to get made.
While the footage from BvS looks visually great- if it's wall to wall action with great visuals, it'll become tiresome fast.
Will see soon enough-
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 3, 2016 15:28:56 GMT -5
Gotta agree with both you chaps regarding Snyder. if you watch the following teaser(just released a few hours ago) you will see Snyder's penchant for people smashing through buildings remains unchanged. www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqsDwASsGN8
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 4, 2016 1:05:02 GMT -5
I hope the action is better choreographed than the (imo) too-fast action he had in MOS.... it looks like it, at least.
One big thing I think BvS has in its favor will be a character that we feel like know- if only through the association of Affleck's big body of work- he's a familiar face, which maybe works in the movie's favor (though having Bale cast would have just been a solid guarantee for most everyone to get onboard, no questions asked, as an even more familiar face, but o well) if it turns out there's not much character development.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2016 20:32:13 GMT -5
Afflecks pre Batman fame hurts and helps him. I think you said CAM it's harder for him to disappear into the role in some people eyes and you're right. He's the most famous actor to take the role before the production. But his fame also gives him a kind of meta sort of recognizability compared to the lesser known Cavill as Superman. This Batman has been around for a long time. a bit of art imitating life. As a big star he can understand a bit of what it's like to be a celebrity like Bruce Wayne.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 7, 2016 20:33:22 GMT -5
Gotta agree with both you chaps regarding Snyder. if you watch the following teaser(just released a few hours ago) you will see Snyder's penchant for people smashing through buildings remains unchanged. www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqsDwASsGN8Lol. I actually like that specific scene but I see your point. I hope every action sequence isn't like that and we get some variety with the action.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 8, 2016 0:42:41 GMT -5
Afflecks pre Batman fame hurts and helps him. I think you said CAM it's harder for him to disappear into the role in some people eyes and you're right. He's the most famous actor to take the role before the production. But his fame also gives him a kind of meta sort of recognizability compared to the lesser known Cavill as Superman. This Batman has been around for a long time. a bit of art imitating life. As a big star he can understand a bit of what it's like to be a celebrity like Bruce Wayne. It's hard to get out of the shadow of Bale. While I wasn't a giant fan of Keaton being chosen as Batman, I felt like I could accept him more than Affleck (though Keaton's frame is pretty small by comparison it seems). If they were going for 'old and grizzly' I might have thought Bryan Cranston.... though Cranston would also make an AWESOME Gordon.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 10, 2016 19:09:41 GMT -5
Ha! Check this out.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 11, 2016 1:15:14 GMT -5
That's cool. Thanks for sharing. I wonder now and then how Keaton (and the other Bat actors) feel about being semi-immortalized in fan youtube clips forever....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 11, 2016 9:10:01 GMT -5
Nature of the beast now. I'd imagine it would be cool and weird for some of them to see these fan trailers of stuff they never did. I wish someone would ask Keaton if he would have done a movie like that back in the day. He might say sure now but back then I don't think he would have been interested.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 14, 2016 22:46:50 GMT -5
Nature of the beast now. I'd imagine it would be cool and weird for some of them to see these fan trailers of stuff they never did. I wish someone would ask Keaton if he would have done a movie like that back in the day. He might say sure now but back then I don't think he would have been interested. I remember reading somewhere that Reeve wouldn't have minded a cameo in a Keaton Batman film. I do wonder if the topic of playing superheroes ever came up when Keaton and Reeve worked together on "Speechless"....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 14, 2016 23:27:55 GMT -5
It did. They both said their "men in tights days were over." Their words. Reeve talked about Keaton being in negotion for Batman Forever at the time of shooting.
I always wished that Reeve had done an Arnold in the rundown or Sly in Stayin Alive type of cameo in Batman Returns or The Flash tv show. Don't even say who it is just let the audience figure it out.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 23, 2016 13:10:57 GMT -5
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 23, 2016 14:06:32 GMT -5
The reviews are mixed at best. Some people love it some hate it but most are somewhere in the middle. There's good things (even some great things) in the movie but on the whole it's got various problems with storytelling, structure, pacing, characters, motivations, etc. Some of the visuals are being praised though. It's pretty much what a lot of people expected. It just sounds overstuffed. It did suprise me that some of the guys at collider who loved man of steel were mixed on BvS.
At the end of the day it's going to open huge despite all that. Now the question is will it have legs despite all of that?
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 24, 2016 10:51:12 GMT -5
I think the thing about legs is: what will fill its place and when?
May 6th is the Civil War movie.
May 27th is X-men Apocalypse.
July 22nd is Trek 3.
So, there's at least one month that BvS gets to haul in its cash. Civil War gets 20 days...
What's funny about the releases is that it may be perfect timing, in a creative way.
BvS gets two heroes fighting each other. Civil War has a ton of heroes fighting each other. X-men has a ton of heroes fighting each other and destroying most of the world.
So, it's going to be a fun few months... (I hope!)
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 24, 2016 11:17:57 GMT -5
You're right. This does seem to be the year of heroes battling heroes. It's much of the focus of Daredevil season 2 as well. they all come down to different methods and phylosophies clashing. You've got Batman, Punisher, Iron Man, and the Four Horsemen representing more extreme methods with Superman, Captain America, The X-Men, and Daredevil going less extreme.
You're also right that BvS has a bigger advantage with no competition. That also helps a film have legs at the box office. Star Wars and Avatar both did incredibly well with virtually no big competition at the box office for weeks. If DOJ and CW had opened on the same day they would have hammered each other. Part of me is curious about what that would have been like though. The first time they've ever truly gone head to head at the box office (that I can think of) would have been fascinating to watch.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 24, 2016 14:05:17 GMT -5
With box office in general way down with all the factors running against it-
You'd think maybe the studios would be more united in trying to strike some sort of deal so that theatres would have a constant stream of hits so that attendance keeps on a high all year round ... the theory being that if the audiences all have a good experience at the movie theatres, they'll keep coming.
I don't know why they feel like things ONLY have to come out in the summer or Xmas times to be a giant hit. I know there's the 'no school for the kids/ holidays' thought, but....
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 24, 2016 19:07:42 GMT -5
regarding going head to head: Back in 1981 Supes I and II were being shown together as part of a double bill at our local EMI(ABC) chain: At the same time another local cinema was showing Spiderman:The Dragon's Challenge: I actually saw the Dragon's Challenge first(because the Supes I and II double bill was sold out) Then got round to the Supes I and II double bill a few days later(blew my mind )
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 24, 2016 19:11:53 GMT -5
The reviews are mixed at best. Some people love it some hate it but most are somewhere in the middle. There's good things (even some great things) in the movie but on the whole it's got various problems with storytelling, structure, pacing, characters, motivations, etc. Some of the visuals are being praised though. It's pretty much what a lot of people expected. It just sounds overstuffed. It did suprise me that some of the guys at collider who loved man of steel were mixed on BvS. At the end of the day it's going to open huge despite all that. Now the question is will it have legs despite all of that? One of those reviewer's in the link i gave earlier said something interesting: That none of the actors looked like they were enjoying the experience. This is my main criticism of Snyder.....his flicks just feel flat (for me) no matter how much eye-candy he puts up on the screen.
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