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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 24, 2016 22:31:34 GMT -5
I don't think there was ever a double-bill Superman & Superman II here in the U.S.- pity, I would have loved that.
(Especially since I'd read the original plan was for BOTH to be playing separately on first release.... which would have been weird, but the thinking I was told was that an audience member would go to one theatre, see part one, then go right to the other theatre for part two as a brand new release. In hindsight I think it was more rumor than anything else- but since the Salkinds were doing something fairly experimental at the time.... who knows? It's - to my knowledge - never been done before, nor since.)
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 25, 2016 5:32:48 GMT -5
I don't think there was ever a double-bill Superman & Superman II here in the U.S.- pity, I would have loved that. (Especially since I'd read the original plan was for BOTH to be playing separately on first release.... which would have been weird, but the thinking I was told was that an audience member would go to one theatre, see part one, then go right to the other theatre for part two as a brand new release. In hindsight I think it was more rumor than anything else- but since the Salkinds were doing something fairly experimental at the time.... who knows? It's - to my knowledge - never been done before, nor since.) I am surprised that the US never got double bills for these big event movies. Supes I was already a 2.5 year old movie by 1981.....but thanks to the fact that home video was very much in it's infancy(or practically non-exsistant).... a film could be re- released in cinemas and still have legs years after it's original theatrical debut. Impossible to happen now. I gather that Supes I came out on VHS(with that sped up /cut up edit) in the US way back in early 1980.....but very few people would have had access to it at that time. It actually got released on VHS in the UK in 1981(in it's full theatrical edit) As a double bill Supes I and II were fantastic entertainment...especially for a first time viewing of either movie. Regarding DOJ Everything Metallo predicted seems to becoming true: www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-batman-superman-review-roundup-20160324-story.htmlIt seems it is quite bad........if it's special effects were worse....it might even be in Supes IV territory.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 25, 2016 11:26:34 GMT -5
If it helps any, Daredevil Season Two (at least up to the first 6 eps) is suprisingly bad in a similar way that the reviewer suggests-
There are giant ideas and moments that are noble, but feel fake instead.... much like my problems with MOS and many parts of Snyder's other films.
The movie financially may be critic proof, much like the Transformer films- but I'm suprised to read that there's not nearly as much action as the trailers suggest either.
And.... no Justice League appearances? Hmnn....
In any case- Zack Snyder has to be getting a little nervous, and Batfleck must be getting more confident, as Batfleck's portion of the movies is getting positive responses, though.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 25, 2016 16:31:27 GMT -5
I don't think there was ever a double-bill Superman & Superman II here in the U.S.- pity, I would have loved that. (Especially since I'd read the original plan was for BOTH to be playing separately on first release.... which would have been weird, but the thinking I was told was that an audience member would go to one theatre, see part one, then go right to the other theatre for part two as a brand new release. In hindsight I think it was more rumor than anything else- but since the Salkinds were doing something fairly experimental at the time.... who knows? It's - to my knowledge - never been done before, nor since.) I am surprised that the US never got double bills for these big event movies. Supes I was already a 2.5 year old movie by 1981.....but thanks to the fact that home video was very much in it's infancy(or practically non-exsistant).... a film could be re- released in cinemas and still have legs years after it's original theatrical debut. Impossible to happen now. I gather that Supes I came out on VHS(with that sped up /cut up edit) in the US way back in early 1980.....but very few people would have had access to it at that time. It actually got released on VHS in the UK in 1981(in it's full theatrical edit) As a double bill Supes I and II were fantastic entertainment...especially for a first time viewing of either movie. Regarding DOJ Everything Metallo predicted seems to becoming true: www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-batman-superman-review-roundup-20160324-story.htmlIt seems it is quite bad........if it's special effects were worse....it might even be in Supes IV territory. LOL. It was obvious from the trailers. True batman is the more popular character so WB will want to promote him hard because he'd get the most interest but trailers always lead with the best stuff. Afflecks batman had more cool stuff to do more cool gear and Affleck had to more to work with in terms of motivation and performance. Like I said the guys a fan AND he had something to prove after Daredevil.
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 25, 2016 18:58:54 GMT -5
I am surprised that the US never got double bills for these big event movies. Supes I was already a 2.5 year old movie by 1981.....but thanks to the fact that home video was very much in it's infancy(or practically non-exsistant).... a film could be re- released in cinemas and still have legs years after it's original theatrical debut. Impossible to happen now. I gather that Supes I came out on VHS(with that sped up /cut up edit) in the US way back in early 1980.....but very few people would have had access to it at that time. It actually got released on VHS in the UK in 1981(in it's full theatrical edit) As a double bill Supes I and II were fantastic entertainment...especially for a first time viewing of either movie. Regarding DOJ Everything Metallo predicted seems to becoming true: www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-batman-superman-review-roundup-20160324-story.htmlIt seems it is quite bad........if it's special effects were worse....it might even be in Supes IV territory. LOL. It was obvious from the trailers. True batman is the more popular character so WB will want to promote him hard because he'd get the most interest but trailers always lead with the best stuff. Afflecks batman had more cool stuff to do more cool gear and Affleck had to more to work with in terms of motivation and performance. Like I said the guys a fan AND he had something to prove after Daredevil. If you cast your mind back to the original 1978 trailer for STM........how little of the movie was revealed....Krypton being destroyed,just a quick shot of Reeve flying in the Fortress of Solitude and then the the final shot of Supes hovering above earth. Fair enough...it was a different cinematic era but even by the standards of the time the original STM 1978 trailer was beautifully discreet. That approach might actually help flicks like Terminator Genysis,The Force Awakens or Dawn Of Justice.......but the producers are so concerned with ensuring that their investment is recouped with interest....that they chuck all the best parts of the upcoming flick.....into the trailers! This is interesting.....the cast of DOJ(Cavill,Adams,Gadot and Snyder) respond to the overly critical reception from the media thus far: www.polygon.com/2016/3/25/11303850/batman-v-superman-reviews-reaction
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dejan
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Post by dejan on Mar 25, 2016 19:31:15 GMT -5
This is a pretty scathing review from the Guardian...one of the UK's biggest papers(beware--it does have spoilers!) But the opening paragraph is not holding back: Like a big, wet glob of fetid bird droppings tumbling down from the sky, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice has landed with an audible splat. It’s been almost three years since director Zack Snyder revealed the project at San Diego Comic-Con and in those years, the multimillion-dollar hype machine has been slowed only periodically by rumblings that something was amiss with the film. Amid splashy trailer releases and return trips to Comic-Con there’s been a steady drumbeat of skepticism in the background. How bad could it be? Well, it turns out, pretty bad. www.theguardian.com/film/2016/mar/25/review-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 25, 2016 20:43:57 GMT -5
Ouch. I think some people are being too harsh. What's funny is this movie is a civil war of its own amongst people. Like man of steel only worse. It really started before the movie came out but you've got people reviewing it together and one loves it and one hates it. Most are in the middle but few seem to enthusiastically love it or absolutely despise it. John Campea (formerly of Collider) liked it a lot but even he said he he wouldn't be shocked if Snyder got replaced. It all depends on this weekend I guess. If it hits a certain number WB won't care but it can't have middling reviews and soft box office numbers too.
It's just too much for one film. They should have focused on Batman vs Superman and left most of the world building for another film. It would have given them time to focus on other things. Snyder would still be a problem but with a much better script I still think he could have delivered a better film. And WB NEEDS a DC Films with its own Kevin Feige. This by committee bs from WB just isn't working. You've got a bunch of people like Johns, Snyder, etc. just doing what the studio wants instead of having a degree of creative freedom. I hope David Ayer has more freedom than Snyder. The film is smaller and not as heavy on building to JL so maybe he will. He's a better storyteller than Snyder but if it gets the same response as BVS they are in trouble.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 27, 2016 17:46:49 GMT -5
I actually liked it, to my surprise. IMO it was better than MOS. more detail later.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 27, 2016 18:03:09 GMT -5
In some ways I felt it improved on MOS. in other ways I felt it regressed. I think what hurt the movie more than anything was it felt more like a checklist of things to get out of the way than a film of its own. JLA 0.5. That and a poor edit. Some of Snyder's flaws as a filmmaker as well as the same contradictions within the material are still there but there is a better movie in all that footage somewhere.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 28, 2016 18:03:35 GMT -5
Actually, the fact that it had a checklist that kept moving probably saved it from having well-intentioned but poorly executed drama that I think stung MOS and Watchmen.
The 'mtv Snyder moments' actually had validity in this film, I thought, mostly due to the script (i.e. the expensive as heck montage of Supes saving people) and they were very nice - and I actually thought the general plot of the film was not all that bad.
Have to give it a second viewing, but - and maybe it's because of all the bad buzz ahead of time - I really thought it much better than my initial expectations.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 28, 2016 18:12:00 GMT -5
My expectations were lowered from the reviews so it did help. I just think the movie could have cut certain superfluous plot elements and focused more on the more important things that needed more attention. I get WHY the subplot of Lois investigating those experimental rounds was in there but was it something vital that needed to be in the film? No. Superman could have been made to look untrustworthy in other ways that were already in the film. His intervention in the terrorist action was enough that could have been expanded on. He's operating with a certain level of autonomy and the government and citizens wouldn't all be crazy about that.
There are other things like that in the movie that could have been streamlined.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 28, 2016 18:48:38 GMT -5
True. There were some 'dead scenes' that could have been removed and would have helped- but, again, I think the lowered expectations helped a lot.
WB probably has a couple of things they're happy about for sure, though:
#1: Positive buzz on the few minutes of Wonder Woman
#2: Positive buzz on Batfleck.
I didn't have any problems with Superman, only that they didn't give him more character stuff. I imagine there's a longer conversation Supes has with his mom, but probably have to wait until the extended cut...
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 28, 2016 19:02:47 GMT -5
Superman needed to show more range. And needed more to do. Batman has a much better character arc and that's why it feels like it's more his movie than Supermans. Batman comes off as more relatable because be gets to run the emotional gamut far more than Superman. They had chances but did nothing with most of them. The Capitol building being destroyed and all those people being incinerated around him really could have been a chance for Superman to show some empathy and passion and aguish. A mix of emotion. Maybe he was but it didn't get emoted too well. He's the untouchable man physically but he shouldn't be emotionally. There was a real chance to feel the pain of all those deaths as well as wonder how people could be so evil and hate him so much to do something that horrific to emotionally wound him.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 28, 2016 23:22:00 GMT -5
Great points. I knew (and I was fine with) it being a Batman movie first, but, yeah, they could have/should have shown Supes shocked and horrified with all the deaths at the Capitol building before taking off, once he figured he was being framed.
Because of the difference with the extended cuts of Watchmen, I'm reserving some of my criticism for the extended release. (Hopefully it doesn't disappoint).
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 29, 2016 7:43:03 GMT -5
I think everyone is hoping for that. It'll be even more interesting when fan editors get their hands on as much footage as possible. I keep saying there's a better film in there somewhere.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 30, 2016 0:18:30 GMT -5
I feel/felt the same true with MOS. Editing can modify performances and stilted scenes.
With BvS, I did feel the performances were much smoother, whether or not it was the editing or Batfleck, I liked a good number of the results with the performances this time around.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 30, 2016 6:39:46 GMT -5
I think the only way editing can help Eisenbergs performance is to cut it out.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 30, 2016 16:24:37 GMT -5
I was okay with it- I didn't LOVE it, but I thought it another variation of the crazy real estate Lex- though, it feels like a number of scenes were on the cutting room floor.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 30, 2016 16:34:09 GMT -5
Lol. There are times when I thought it worked. When he toned it down and got more serious but I just felt he went to over the top with it. It just didn't feel like it fit the tone of the rest of the movie. He made Spacey look dark in comparison. I liked Spacey btw it's just that some peoples criticism of him was that he was to silly bunk thought he had a good balance for that film.
I think it would have made his motivations a little clearer if it was revealed he was clearing the way for you know who. I'm split on wether he was or not. Maybe he learned of "him" from the Kryptonian ship but wasn't actually working for him.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Mar 30, 2016 16:58:37 GMT -5
There's a deleted scene suggesting Lex was possessed by an Apokolips-type character.... but, yeah, hopefully the extended makes the storytelling clearer. I have more hope that it will, as Snyder's past extended versions seem worth checking out.
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Mar 30, 2016 17:35:31 GMT -5
I think it'll make things easier to understand becuse certain scenes will be expanded but my fear is some of the films fundamental problems beyond editing will still be there. The film went in some unneeded directions that took the whole story off course.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2016 15:01:46 GMT -5
Agreed. I don't want more unnecessary clutter. On the flip side, the directors cut of Sucker Punch had a fantastic deleted action sequence. More Wonder Woman in costume/ extended action I'd be ok with. (Did I mention my bar for Snyder is low? )
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 2, 2016 20:24:25 GMT -5
As long as it expands on scenes that need it instead of, like you said, more clutter I can't wait.
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Post by crazy_asian_man on Apr 2, 2016 21:58:11 GMT -5
One thing I always look for is the running time- though, if there are additional changes (as was the X-men Rogue cut case), it could still be different enough to justify the price tag even if the time doesn't seem much longer than the original. Will see....
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Metallo
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Post by Metallo on Apr 3, 2016 15:50:49 GMT -5
The rogue cut felt like different movie. Things play out differently. I felt it was more than worth the buy.
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