Selutron's Superman II Cut

[Jor-L5150]

Aug 12, 2009 12:26:31 GMT -5 TylerDurden389 said:

I remember someone saying something similar to that a while ago. They suggested adding a shot of a guy in a dark suit grabbing something out of his pocket (not showing their face of course, and zooming the shot closer for continuity) and then rotoscoping a hand holding a small green crystal into the scene when Clark and Lois kiss at the DP. It was to show the rotoscoped hand (Clark's hand) putting the crystal to her head. The green crystal would shine, and Lois would forget that way. Though I have a slightly different idea.

How about when they're on the balcony, when he puts his hand across her hair before flying off, we see a green flash from his hand (implying he's holding it) and the sound of the crystal glowing? Same idea, but done with a Donner scene instead of Lester scene.
I saw someone try something similar to this before, where they implied that when he touched her, he did sort of a "vulcan-memory eraser" or something. All they did was play the music when Lois find outs he's Superman, and showed the part of the balcony scene where he caresses her face in slo-motion, and maybe it was in black and white.

I'll say this though, if not for Selutron telling us how sad his ending is, I wouldn't have been surprised if that's EXACTLY what he would've done. It's such a simple shot to add in.

excellent. someone go do it !
cam ?

[ADigitalMan]

As much as I want this to happen, I'm pessimistic. The inkling of hope I have is that WB did put out The Final Cut of Blade Runner and a kick-ass DVD/BR set featuring no less than five cuts of the film and 45 minutes more of deleted footage gorgeously restored.

If they could do that for a box-office disaster, I'm hopeful they can do it for friggin Superman.

Maybe they'll want to release Superman Redeemed too. :-D

[HOSNI]

Well said.

Ask the average Joe in the street who played (Rick) Deckard and you'd probably get a blank stare.

Then ask them who they usually think of when you say 'Superman'!!

[HOSNI]

Even if it meant using a little more Lester footage, Warners could create an uplifting ending that makes sense for a Superman II Donner Cut revisit.

• Superman wipes Lois’s memory (and only Lois) on the balcony, perhaps when he touches her face and says “I know that Lois…”
• Superman flies off, “up up and away etc”
• Now insert the Diner scene - placing it here suggests it’s the same evening
• Establishing shot of Metropolis, the next morning
• Daily Planet, open with Clark walking in and says “good morning Lois” (remove the scene where Perry appears dazed and confused in his office as time reversal never occurred)
• Clark agrees to buy the Pizza, bumps into Jimmy in the elevator lobby and discusses the new camera
• Cut the elevator thug entirely
• Back to Clark – insert the super hearing effect (same we see in Superman 3 when Clark hears Buster whimpering)
• His expression changes with gun shots and screaming – there’s a bank robbery occurring down town
• Heads to the Janitor closet with new CG background resembling a stair well, zooms down the stair well
• Reuse the ‘zoom’ scene through lobby revolving door from DP jump scene
• Insert Lester Alleyway change starting with Clark out front of the DP
• Replace upward flight with Lester S3 shot after Supes rescues drowning man
• CityScape shot then fade to black (assuming Superman saved the day)
• END with usual space fly by

[ye5man]

[TylerDurden389]

CAm's cut does something a little bit similar, and I have an idea of my own.

Since mostly everyone here agrees on the missile being what releasing the villains, that means the Paris hydrogen bomb sequence is no longer needed and can be cut right?

WRONG!! At the end of the film when everything's back to normal (memory kiss or time reversal, doesn't matter), have Superman show up for "just another day at the office", only to find out that terrorists have seized the Eiffel Tower, and have a bomb if they're demands aren't met.

Alleyway change, and a last establishing shot of Supes flying. Superman is off to save the day once again. Credits.

[Bobby M]

Have they released it yet?

[EvilSupes]

I don't think there's any chance of that happening until WB sort out what they're going to do with the next Superman movie. For all we known it could be another 20yrs before we see one again unfortunately.

[crazy_asian_man]

An aside on the Selutron material:
Thanks to a heads up by Tylerdurden, checked out "The Swarm" (the WB footage that Selutron used for the Washington Memorial bit)--- was suprised to find out that the footage actually had Michael Caine in the scene wearing a sweater, but was painted out & replaced with a White House sign inside the 'War Room'. Had no idea that the footage was re-jiggered!

Tip of the hat to Selutron... wherever he/she is.....

[matt]

Is there any new updates on this project?

[Gandy]

I spoke to Selutron on Sunday -- we didn't talk about it. It's in hibernation until Warners and Siegel get their sh*t together about the future. Personally, I'm tired of Superman. Everything has been achieved, not always as we hoped, but remember where we started - in 1997? ZERO. Who the f*ck knew we'd be grumbling about a Donner cut! LOL ;D

[snoopkryptodog]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm glad the Selutron re-edit didn't happen.

I loved some of the ideas developed in the now infamous clips, but at the end of the day, rotoscoping and re-editing only goes so far (see Star Wars and the constant frustrations of some of the fan cutters here).

I especially hated the idea of a new ending that was never scripted by the original creators - why go through the bother of reconstructing the film "Donner Style" when a whole new generation of Superman films could use new ideas and a fresh story relevant to the 21st century?

The SII I wanted to see was never finished. It never will be. Full stop. Sure, a better editor could do more with the RDC. Who cares?

I'd rather see a new Superman movie with no Lex Luthor, no kryptonite, no Lois Lane love story, no cheesy comedy, and a villain that can actually kick Superman's ass/outsmart our hero.

Yes, I know I just tossed out 90% of the Superman mythology. But I'd love to see an icon pushed like he's never been pushed before, in ways an audience can't guess, without going the route of a Smallville-like reconstruction.

[TylerDurden389]

Definitely agree with snoop about the frustrations of fan cutting. I've been trying to do rotoscoping with vegas and I've realized just how hard it really is. I'm starting to think that maybe a "less is more" type of cut is the only option for me.

Also agree that Jimbo's cut is the best fan cut out of all of them.

[HOSNI]

I still hope it happens.

[matt]

I hope it happens also, If it doesn't, I hope someday he will release his planned outline for his SII edit.

[TylerDurden389]

Yeah even an outline would be great. If we know what it is he planned on doing, we can pick up where he left off. Even if it's just for ourselves and not for an official release. I'm personally curious as to how his movie would open. He had a video that I think had the curtains opening, a zoom towards Earth, and then had a child narrating parts of S1 while showing clips of Lex putting the kryptonite necklace on Supes, but he took it down when the general response was mostly negative.

I really wish I had saved those videos. Not all of them are on capedwonder.com The concorde scene he made would've been great to have. I also liked his tinkering with the dialogue in the de-powering scene

[matt]

If there is some announcement soon about a future Superman movie, Is the Selutron's campaign for a new SII edit back on?

[crazy_asian_man]

I agree that an outline would be great if there's no offiicial release- but I'm just grateful that the clips that he made were made available and gave some great ideas on how much the project could have been improved on a home level if WB doesn't ever wish to revisit it on a professional one.

On a side note, WB should hardly get upset with fan cuts if they openly reject requests from fans for another extended Donner cut of some sort, in principal. I still wonder how much the SII IRC helped push WB dragging and kicking into making more money with the DOnner cut.

Speaking of which, I still wonder how accurate the sales figures could possibly be for the RDC (I got a feeling it would have been more than calculated)..... given that it was (though I was happy that it was) included in the Ultimate Collectors' edition.

I bought both the standalone and the box, but I can imagine that those who got it in the box might not have wanted (understandably) another dvd just for the sake of having a duplicate with different cover art....

[EvilSupes]

I don't think we will ever see it which is a shame. I think WB has spent as much as they're going to spend as far as improved edited/remastered versions go. The only thing we'll likely see in the future is the release of the Superman 2 theatrical cut and Superman 3 and 4 in Blu-ray - which even that seems like it may never happen.

I think WB needs to realise money can still be made from the Superman franchise, old or not, and just grow a pair of balls, get a Selutron edit of Superman 2 out as well as the others in Blu-ray and release a damn new movie already!

Whoever is making these decisions should be sacked end of. I don't care for the excuses of "we want to rethink our strategy as SR didn't make enough money" because I mean if that's the case, they should actually DO something about it rather than sit on their fat arses thinking how they can ignore Superman for the next 20yrs - which let's be honest seems to be the way things are going...

Sorry for the rant, I felt a little grumpy.

[crazy_asian_man]

I think WB needs to realise money can still be made from the Superman franchise, old or not, and just grow a pair of balls, get a Selutron edit of Superman 2 out as well as the others in Blu-ray and release a damn new movie already!

I wonder how much is it a decision of whoever is sitting as the head of the studio, versus WB committee?

But, agreed - 1000%!

[matt]

Does anyone know if the various outtakes and other angles they shot for the movies survived. If so there could be footage they could use for a new edit.

[Bobby M]

Time for one of my rare posts in the Superman forum. And one that is actually on the subject of Superman! Wonders never cease.

Wanna know what I think about all this? I think that's all she wrote. I would really like to see Superman II treated with the respect it deserves. Whether that's a combined STM/SII epic or a new cut of SII. Whatever. What I don't want from Warners is another Donner cut. Been there. Done that. Fucked it up, if the general consensus is anything to go by. In the unlikely event WB do decide to take another stab at this, I think an unbiased hybrid cut is the only way to go. I'm not even sure if that's possible without consent from both Donner and Lester, but then this has always been a touchy subject. But I think another pure Donner cut is a waste of time. They tried that and look how it turned out.

But, sadly, I really don't see a chance of anything happening now. 2006 was SII's big opportunity and it got blown. Who blew it? Doesn't really matter. You can blame Thau, Donner, the budget, whatever. Fact is, they didn't do it justice. And I can't see them putting in the money to try again, given the fan reaction to the last attempt.

Blade Runner was lucky, really. With that film, they did it right the first time. You don't see fans of that one campaigning for another cut in light of the 2007 release, do you? Superman fans should be so lucky.

As for Selutron, I can only repeat what I've said all along. That being that the guy is incredibly talented, but I cannot for the life of me see Warner Brothers supporting and officially releasing what is essentially a glorified fan-edit. Potentially the best fan edit of all time, granted, but still. How are they going to sell that to Donner and Lester? "Ummm.....yeah........we were wondering if you'd sign up for us releasing this edit of one of your most revered films that has been cobbled together by a fan. How about it?" Ah, no. Can't see it. I noticed on another forum that many were getting hopeful that Adywan's versions Star Wars would get a proper release and become the official cuts. Call me a cynic on this, but I wouldn't put money on it.

I hope and I'll love to see a definitive Superman II. It's one of my ten favourite films of all time and always will be. And it can be even greater than it is already. But I don't see it happening. Certainly not any time soon.

[atp]

Now that there seems to be a new Nolan Superman movie on the cards, this might be a good time to get WB to allow Selutron to release his version of S2.

It will be like 2006 all over again. Only this time, the movies will be good.

[Deleted]

I'm gonna have to agree with every word Bobbo said.

[Jimbo]

Curses to me for missing this post...

Feb 5, 2010 17:13:21 GMT -5 Bobby M said:

Blade Runner was lucky, really. With that film, they did it right the first time. You don't see fans of that one campaigning for another cut in light of the 2007 release, do you? Superman fans should be so lucky.

Blade Runner wasn't really luck. Ridley Scott got to shoot everything he needed. All that the Final Cut did was further the efforts of the 1992 Director's Cut and remove the voice-overs, trim some shots, remove the ending that never should have been there, and use some CG to fix a few errors. The entire movie was already there, it just needed some tweaking.

Superman II is an ugly beast, because you have two directors' visions clashing head-to-head, plus you have more cuts made by fans and TV networks that include scenes that neither director used. So you have a movie Donner wanted, a movie Lester wanted, and a movie the producers and networks wanted. What a mess!

WB did the right thing and included every single cut of Blade Runner in the collection. Imagine if WB released a collection of Superman II which had both official cuts as well as the ABC and RIC cuts in full widescreen. I bet people would be complaining far less.