Selutron's Superman II Cut

[Legsy]

If I remember correctly, their official position on the matter was; "been there done that with lots of success!"

[heman]

Well, as I said earlier, it could all happen sooner than you think. Now that WB has officially released a statement that they are now going to REINTRODUCE superman, they have plans to have this before 2011 winter I believe. Thats when youll see a launch of superman movies repackaged and new supplements and most probably a new superman 2 or and Epic 1&2 like Sel wanted to do in the first place.

Oh and selutron did use that superman III flying scene in His photoshoped Concord scene that is not on caped wonder, but was on his youtube page when it was opened.

I have to say tho, I do REALLY like the idea of the movie ending on a happy note and him running outside to the alley way iconic change and then it cutting to the famous fly over the world and smile scene. Thats something Selutron should definately consider. That idea gives me chills and Im sure would leave everyone left feeling with a "Flying High" emotion. Dam I miss that man, Im just glad I have 1:1 scale busts of him.

[crazy_asian_man]

Bottom line: without Donner's approval/ support..... COULD Warner Brothers support a Selutron fan recut?

Either:
#1- They own all the rights to do as they wish- but don't want to alienate Donner or other directors who may be afraid of THEIR work being re-edited without their approval down the line.

or

#2- They don't have all the rights, and would need Donner's approval.

Either way, without Donner's overt support, hard to imagine that this would be an easy task to ever see this above-the-board.

[Scissorpuppy]

I am pretty sure WB can do whatever they want with the films.
It is just common courtesy in the industry to allow directors to be apart of their projects releases on dvd. Plus Donnor has a great working relationship with WB.

[Gandy]

"Dharmesh and I just had a chat on the phone - oh, how we love to whinge about Hollywood blockbusters not being as good as they used to be! I have to say I was very surprised that the discussion about a SII revisit was still raging on the message-boards. I guess anyone following the recent saga over Futurama (It's back! They're going to recast it??!? Phew!!) will know the road is often a long
one for "cult" sci-fi stuff. But the fans wishes can and do prevail. Sometimes the winds of fate just have to blow the right way...with Superman, the politics, legal issues and so on, those winds will have to be even more favourable!

Anyway, the plan has always been to spring into action again when a new Superman film is announced. I have to admit that in my life, Supes has somewhat faded into the background until that moment arrives. Partly for my own sanity - those clips really were extraordinarily draining to produce, and then a fully annotated
"editing script" highlighting what new stuff would go where in this proposal etc, etc. One of the phrases I used jokingly with WB was "shovel ready" - they laughed when they heard that expression. But the point was to show the viability and readiness. Pretty much everyone advised that detailed preparation was very important. The funny thing was that the journey starting with the clips helped
to make that meeting with WB very smooth. They never stumped me with some of their probing plot or technical questions!

When word about a film is confirmed, it may involve Dharmesh joining me on a trip to Hollywood - as much as the pitch itself matters, there are also relationships that need to be developed, trust built, approval gained etc. As Dharmesh has mentioned, the director's approval is critical. So far, the vibe has been very, very good about the idea from a lot of quarters including from
within the Supes production as well as WB, but until a "greeen-light" is given, it is all just a song and a dance.

As for the proposed ending, you know how it is...that moment at my meeting with WB was very real - the look on one of the guy's faces. If I had said "Yes, that is on the internet too," then I may as well have left the building there and then. I wish it were different, but this is a key card that could help bring this project about. I fully understand the frustrations that this secret entails. Dharmesh and the few people to whom I have shown the proposed ending
understand that too. Please trust us in this strategy, despite the
understandable curiosity/hopes/fears about the content. If it gets out, then it is over.

Incidentally, there is a funny story that Dharmesh will know about someone who accidentally posted the concept clip of the ending I had put together on their website for a few hours (a long time ago) before I desperately got in touch and they realised the mistake. By some miracle of fate, the file was corrupted and didn't work when downloaded anyway. We both breathed a huge, huge sigh of
relief. In a weird way, that was fate seemingly coming to the rescue..."

Greetings, "Selutron"

[MAVERICK]

WOAH!

Thanks for the update Gandy!

And since he obviously visits here, thanks to Selutron too!

[Legsy]

Sounds pretty damn good to me!

[matt]

Thanks for the update!

[smd]

Thanks for the reply Selutron!

I hope you are aware that a lot of people are really gunning for a new cut of SII and have been very excited by your efforts. You have obviously put a great deal of time and energy into your SII work so if you believe that your strategy will work then we (and I think I speak for everyone) trust you 100%.

That said... it seems that a new Superman movie may be in development heck and, truth be told, I don't even care about a new film as much as I anticipate a new Donner Superman II. But hey, at least this is something to look forward to and hopefully with WB giving Superman a much needed reboot they might want to look at SII with fresh eyes as well!

[ChrisM]

any chance of updating some of the weaker plot and visual elements in STM as well?

Might as well pitch a restored S1-S2 package as a complete story if you ask me... if you're looking to get the biggest bang for the buck.

I know there are film purists who think STM is fine as is... but updating or "modernizing" certain elements doesn't "overwrite" the original versions. The original works will always exist if that's what makes you happy.

I'd rather see millions invested to re-introduce classics to a new generation of fans, then trying to see Hollywood spend billions (collectively) churning out inferior remakes or "reimagining" efforts.

The only way you can win new generations on a broad scale is by bringing certain elements of classic films into the 21st Century. Unfair or not, many younger people tend to "look down" upon older films.

[Kirok]

This is encouraging, exciting news Dharmesh. Thanks for sharing that.

On the ending again, I doubt it's anything like what we've suggested here. It has be to be something much more complex and poignant based on the limited info we've gotten on it. Hopefully we'll get to see it when WB decides to re-release SII to cash in on JJ Abram's and McG's "Superman" reboot.

[Legsy]

With Welling as Superman.

[Gandy]

Aug 5, 2009 12:13:03 GMT -5 ChrisM said:

any chance of updating some of the weaker plot and visual elements in STM as well?

Might as well pitch a restored S1-S2 package as a complete story if you ask me... if you're looking to get the biggest bang for the buck.

I know there are film purists who think STM is fine as is... but updating or "modernizing" certain elements doesn't "overwrite" the original versions. The original works will always exist if that's what makes you happy.

I'd rather see millions invested to re-introduce classics to a new generation of fans, then trying to see Hollywood spend billions (collectively) churning out inferior remakes or "reimagining" efforts.

The only way you can win new generations on a broad scale is by bringing certain elements of classic films into the 21st Century. Unfair or not, many younger people tend to "look down" upon older films.

Not touching STM. It's fine as it is. Anyway, Donner would never agree to it.

[ye5man]

I would hate to see STM tampered with.

[Legsy]

STM is, IMHO, a masterpiece. You don't mess with perfection. Or else you get the Special Edition Star Wars Trilogy. BLAH!

[smd]

Yeah... every bit of resources should be put to restoring SII not wasted on the perfection that is STM. Even the scene with Otis walking to the Lair is perfect... the perfect time to relieve yourself or get a snack!

Maybe every movie should have one intentionally boring part so you can take a quick break w/o having to stop the film! ;D

[ChrisM]

Aug 6, 2009 9:49:02 GMT -5 Legsy said:

STM is, IMHO, a masterpiece. You don't mess with perfection.

I'm a huge fan of STM because it has many great moments but I can admit it's not perfect. That's where we are different.

Is legoland perfection? Grainy 35mm plates?

What about axing the missile intercept in the desert - an important and exciting action set piece - because of shoddy FX?

And for all the brilliant dialogue, the writers could not script a more 'believable' missile hijacking sequence?


Getting back to the point here, they went back and color-corrected the blue suits in STM and added new FX in the Donner Cut, so let's cut the 'sacrilegious' baloney. Nobody wants CGI plastered all over the screen... what I would like to see is Donner's STM as it would have been presented if it wasn't rushed to completion. To that end, several important FX scenes could be addressed.

[Bobby M]

Mr Selutron, if you read this forum I have a question for you that you could please also ask to the Warner:

Given the current worldwide recession and the general state of the economy, would you consider the cost-effective method of creating CGI villains instead of hiring human ones?

Thanks for your kind attention.

[Legsy]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[smd]

Aug 7, 2009 20:22:32 GMT -5 Bobby M said:

Mr Selutron, if you read this forum I have a question for you that you could please also ask to the Warner:

Given the current worldwide recession and the general state of the economy, would you consider the cost-effective method of creating CGI villains instead of hiring human ones?

Thanks for your kind attention.

Sel is doing the next best thing in putting the villains in DC. However, my one worry is that his DC battle might make the Metropolis battle look a bit anti-climactic. I remember seeing some of his metropolis battle stuff... he fixed the editing a bit but I hope he does something a bit more extensive ala crazy-asian man's cut.

In anycase, I'm sure his 'annotated' script calls for major CGI work to be done to the Metropolis fight. It really hasn't aged well at all (even in the Donner cut) so I think it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up in CGI (think Matrix Revolutions end fight.)

[crazy_asian_man]

Sel is doing the next best thing in putting the villains in DC. However, my one worry is that his DC battle might make the Metropolis battle look a bit anti-climactic. I remember seeing some of his metropolis battle stuff... he fixed the editing a bit but I hope he does something a bit more extensive ala crazy-asian man's cut.

Thanks for the mention, SMD- the main reason for putting up those clips (besides hopes that people get momentary enjoyment from it and getting great feedback) is to maybe influence Selutron to make the Metro battle to be a lot more than just splicing Donner/Lester's battle together, and maybe compositing 'new' footage like he'd done for the rest of the film. Probably he has, though.*

((*Though of course the down side of spreading out the shortage of footage for a big battle is having repeat (unavoidable) foreground shots a la Superman IV, though. ))

By my count, the 'spectacular' Metropolis battle that the movie builds up to as is in the theatrical and Thau cut consists of-:

(onscreen) 3 punches, one kick, one spin, and LOTS of blowing.
Pfah. ;p

Not much of a battle without enhancements if you ask me. (Not that anyone did)

[joey m]

Does there even need to be some grand complex secret ending to 2? Isn't it possible to merely leave Lois on the balcony, and as she goes inside, a green light pulses on the balcony. (the first movie is loaded with shots of that set that could be manipulated/cannibalized) The apartment is bathed in a green glow, then fade to black. Fade back in, next morning, and Lois can't remember what she was gonna write about. Bingo, implied Roofie by Kryptonian crystal!

[Jor-L5150]

Aug 12, 2009 2:21:48 GMT -5 joey m said:

Does there even need to be some grand complex secret ending to 2? Isn't it possible to merely leave Lois on the balcony, and as she goes inside, a green light pulses on the balcony. (the first movie is loaded with shots of that set that could be manipulated/cannibalized) The apartment is bathed in a green glow, then fade to black. Fade back in, next morning, and Lois can't remember what she was gonna write about. Bingo, implied Roofie by Kryptonian crystal!

i actually like that

[TylerDurden389]

I remember someone saying something similar to that a while ago. They suggested adding a shot of a guy in a dark suit grabbing something out of his pocket (not showing their face of course, and zooming the shot closer for continuity) and then rotoscoping a hand holding a small green crystal into the scene when Clark and Lois kiss at the DP. It was to show the rotoscoped hand (Clark's hand) putting the crystal to her head. The green crystal would shine, and Lois would forget that way. Though I have a slightly different idea.

How about when they're on the balcony, when he puts his hand across her hair before flying off, we see a green flash from his hand (implying he's holding it) and the sound of the crystal glowing? Same idea, but done with a Donner scene instead of Lester scene.

I saw someone try something similar to this before, where they implied that when he touched her, he did sort of a "vulcan-memory eraser" or something. All they did was play the music when Lois find outs he's Superman, and showed the part of the balcony scene where he caresses her face in slo-motion, and maybe it was in black and white.

I'll say this though, if not for Selutron telling us how sad his ending is, I wouldn't have been surprised if that's EXACTLY what he would've done. It's such a simple shot to add in.

[HOSNI]

some good ideas here.

The Donner DP scene could follow it - but the part where Perry looks confused would have to go. Start straight with "good morning Lois"

I tell you though - if the ending requires creative flair (with an uplifting finish) I'm that passionate about seeing the Lester Alleyway shirt rip it ain't funny.