Lois and Clark

[Metallo]

Cains suit was awful. Those early cape attachments were distracting, the reds didn't match, and it had this bizarre sheen to it.. But even with a more classic suit Gerard Christopher looked the part more. Cain was built more thickly but Gerard Christopher was in far better shape. Wasn't he a triathlete or something? No wonder his harness/flying scenes looked so good.

I think he held up better than Cain in the years after Lois & Clark despite being older

[crazy_asian_man]

Cains suit was awful. Those early cape attachments were distracting, the reds didn't match, and it had this bizarre sheen to it.. But even with a more classic suit Gerard Christopher looked the part more. Cain was built more thickly but Gerard Christopher was in far better shape. Wasn't he a triathlete or something? No wonder his harness/flying scenes looked so good.

I didn't think any of the L&C suits are nearly as horrible as the current MOS images of the redesigned suit, that's how strong the original design is, imo.

On another note- neat that the 'old' Supermen were at the SR premiere.... I also wonder--- it's doubtful, but I wonder if there's any photos of all the Supermen at the time in a photo together? (Though it could only be awkward if one is greatly taller than all the others)

And--- both Gerard and Cain seem like they're doing a pretty good job keeping it together after so many years..... not easy to do so after a few decades for anyone! (At least no one is Brando or Otis-sized)

[Metallo]

I don't think there's anything like that with Superman but here are some Jimmys



They still have an opportunity to get all the live action Lois Lanes together for a photo shoot. That would be cool to see.

[Valentine Smith]

pffft...I'll take the MoS suit over ANY of the L&C suits, no questions asked.

People complain about how short Cain is, but Gerard is at least as short. I don't care what his bio says, I don't think that dude is any taller than 5'10, if that! He looks shorter than most of his co-stars, including Haiduk in most shots. Newton wasn't exactly a tower either, but I've gotta say, I always thought he was a little too thin, but on recent viewings of season 1 of Superboy, I'm pretty impressed with how compact and strong his physique is. His biceps really pop through sometimes, and for his size, comparatively, he's as impressive as anyone!

Again, it's tough to judge these things, but I think there were just design elements of those Cain costumes which detracted from his natural build. The way too big puffy S, the oddly shaped and placed belt, the "sheen" of the costume that Metallo pointed out, the weird cape attachments that made the shoulders look unnaturally broad, the too-low neckline (compared with the too high neckline of the SR suit) I wonder if the material itself is even more compressive/unflattering than spandex usually is. Also, darker colors tend to "slim" folks, while Gerard's suit is the more Reeve-like lighter blue. Cain looked plenty convincing to me in all of those shirtless scenes in Season One!

[monkeymagic]

Feel free to throw stones at me. I HATED Lois and Clark full stop. Smallville the earlier series, I felt was much better. But even then Smallville ended up losing the plot.

[crazy_asian_man]

Feel free to throw stones at me. I HATED Lois and Clark full stop. Smallville the earlier series, I felt was much better. But even then Smallville ended up losing the plot.

Not throwing stones here. To each their own.


To me, L&C's press ahead of time talked about how much it was going to be a LOIS show.... with little Superman--- so I was suprised how much Superman there was in the pilot & first season. As a modest low-budget version of the Donner Supes, I thought it had charm.

Smallville, on the other hand, took itself VERY seriously--- and that being the case--- was more annoying when that one REALLY diverged from the mythos (not to mention clobber the mythos to death at times). With L&C, it was also annoying, but somehow something lighthearted with lower ambitions that miss its target feel less offensive than pretentious ones that miss it.

[ye5man]

Cain was defined but I don't think he had the "Man mountain" thing going on that Superman requires. Have to give him credit if he never wore padding though.

Strange thing on that show: Superman would walk down the street talking to Lois and the extras would hardly give him a 2nd look ;D

[Metallo]

Apr 1, 2012 12:53:18 GMT -5 Valentine Smith said:

pffft...I'll take the MoS suit over ANY of the L&C suits, no questions asked.

People complain about how short Cain is, but Gerard is at least as short. I don't care what his bio says, I don't think that dude is any taller than 5'10, if that! He looks shorter than most of his co-stars, including Haiduk in most shots. Newton wasn't exactly a tower either, but I've gotta say, I always thought he was a little too thin, but on recent viewings of season 1 of Superboy, I'm pretty impressed with how compact and strong his physique is. His biceps really pop through sometimes, and for his size, comparatively, he's as impressive as anyone!

Again, it's tough to judge these things, but I think there were just design elements of those Cain costumes which detracted from his natural build. The way too big puffy S, the oddly shaped and placed belt, the "sheen" of the costume that Metallo pointed out, the weird cape attachments that made the shoulders look unnaturally broad, the too-low neckline (compared with the too high neckline of the SR suit) I wonder if the material itself is even more compressive/unflattering than spandex usually is. Also, darker colors tend to "slim" folks, while Gerard's suit is the more Reeve-like lighter blue. Cain looked plenty convincing to me in all of those shirtless scenes in Season One!

The superman suit should never look that cheap...no matter how much I have to suspend disbelief. Cains belt look like a strap with a big eraser on it and his boots looked like cheap rain boot painted red.

When George Reeves's color costume looks just as good if not better I kinda have to shake my head. I know they wanted it to look homemade but...jeez. We were talking about Hammonds Spidey costume and thats what the Cain costume should have been shooting for in terms of tone/style. Maybe UF has a point. The show liked to focus on the L&C relationship but it was almost like it was mocking the classic superhero with its depiction of Superman. Not in the clever camp Batman 66 way either.

[Valentine Smith]

God, that belt DID look like an eraser! Never thought of it that way. hahahhaahaaa!

[crazy_asian_man]

Cain was defined but I don't think he had the "Man mountain" thing going on that Superman requires.

Again, I enjoyed L&C as a very cool 'Superboy/Young Superman' series--- at least the first season. Later on, it overestimated the charm between Lois & Clark vs. having strong stories (or really making what they had more interesting). Part of it was budget, but part was how weak some of the story material was handled...

The first season pretty much took a good CHUNK of what was in the comics, and almost turned it into a fun ensemble comedy-adventure (Tracy Scoggins as Cat Grant could have been better used & kept for the following seasons.... ironically, Smallville used a young version of Cat Grant to pretty good comic effect in the last two seasons)....

But then they came up with their own ideas---- further and further away from the comics' material....*sigh*

[stargazer01]

Apr 1, 2012 12:05:30 GMT -5 Metallo said:

I don't think there's anything like that with Superman but here are some Jimmys



They still have an opportunity to get all the live action Lois Lanes together for a photo shoot. That would be cool to see.

Here is Margot with Brandon:



And Brandon with Donner:

[SupermanUF]

Apr 1, 2012 10:14:01 GMT -5 Metallo said:

Cains suit was awful. Those early cape attachments were distracting, the reds didn't match, and it had this bizarre sheen to it.. But even with a more classic suit Gerard Christopher looked the part more. Cain was built more thickly but Gerard Christopher was in far better shape. Wasn't he a triathlete or something? No wonder his harness/flying scenes looked so good.

I think he held up better than Cain in the years after Lois & Clark despite being older

Wow, Gerard Christopher's still got it--you can tell that playing Superman just really got into his soul. To be fair, I don't think Cain EVER had it, but you already know I was no fan of L&C.

[Metallo]

To be fair to Cain I think he was a decent Clark and he and Hatcher had undeniable chemistry. His Superman blew though. He looked like he was never comfortable in his own skin (or suit) as Superman. Thats why he always looked so stiff and kept the arms folded. God the arm folding

Superman should look like he is at ease and not have a stick up his a** whenever he lands. Reeve and Reeves seemed comfortable.

Even as Superman Cain was just...a guy. He was a well built guy but there was nothing awe inspiring about him. Even Routh Cavill and Welling have a kind of "star" quality as Superman.

[crazy_asian_man]

To be fair to Cain I think he was a decent Clark and he and Hatcher had undeniable chemistry. His Superman blew though. He looked like he was never comfortable in his own skin (or suit) as Superman. Thats why he always looked so stiff and kept the arms folded. God the arm folding

I thought Cain was fine- because for L&C, I always felt they were showing that the real identity was CLARK, not Superman. Thus, he was always pretending to be authority while in suit, but prefering to just be himself (Clark).

With the Reeve movies, it was the reverse. Clark being the fake persona.

I think because of the tone and approach I never really felt it competing with the Donner films. It was a gentle parody (when it worked best), but that laughed with the material and took another perspective of the whole thing.

The theme being that Superman was really just the same guy that Lois was dissing daily, because she was so superficial, but eventually comes around. So, it seemed right to me that this Superman was more of a 'work personality' and not be himself. He'd rather be just the guy with the glasses.

SR- a whole other situation. I loved his take on Clark Kent, but I didn't think his Superman was as strong performance-wise, so I actually think your critique of Cain fits more to Routh here, but still think he would have been far better in a sequel as Supes....but we know how that developed. *sigh*

[Metallo]

Routh never looked as uncomfortable as Superman as Cain did and while Routh had less to work with I still think he turned in a better performance as Superman.

As far as Cain playing Clark being more of the focus yeah thats true but TAOS was much more evenly balanced in its depiction of Clark and Superman. George Reeves Clark was a heavily featured more well rounded character but Reeves trounces Cain as Clark AND Superman. Its a much closer comparison since Reeves Clark was less nerdy and more "normal."

I think there are some inherent weaknesses that Cain had as an actor in the role as well as the material he was working with.

[ye5man]

Routh did a much better job impersonating Reeve than Cain ever did

[Deleted]

Cain never tried, at least. He made it his own. Wasn't great, but it wasn't a rip off of another performance.

In watching the series, I'm up to season four now, and he ALWAYS looks miserable in the Superman suit. Okay, there might be a handful of times when he seems pretty cool with the whole situation, being in the costume and on wires, there ARE actually a few moments when it works splendidly. The rest is just awful, though. The changing into Superman, the spinning and stopping with the arms folded, oh man...just...just rough. The flying scenes later in the series make him look even MORE miserable and terrified of heights.

His Clark starts going downhill, too, but that's not his fault, it's the writing, the way of the show's direction. The scripts stopped producing that pizzazz, that charm, that lightning that WAS definitely there and was even there AFTER Deborah Joy Levine left, but it petered out quick. It became more about appeasing Lois and making Clark a dude with no backbone who will do anything to make her happy.

I will say, though, that the suit from the show has definitely grown on me. Other than the cape, which I think is just horrible, it never looks right except in the pilot episode, the suit isn't too bad. It is what it is. Perfect for the show. And I even like the colors.

[crazy_asian_man]

His Clark starts going downhill, too, but that's not his fault, it's the writing, the way of the show's direction. The scripts stopped producing that pizzazz, that charm, that lightning that WAS definitely there and was even there AFTER Deborah Joy Levine left, but it petered out quick. It became more about appeasing Lois and making Clark a dude with no backbone who will do anything to make her happy.

I agree that there still was some pizzazz after Joy left, but imo....

When Lex was around in the first season, it made it an interesting love 'triangle' so to speak. Lex represented corruption in a society (plus the 'other guy' Clark and Supes had to compete with)- and made Supes shine brighter next to him and having to exist under a city that still had Lex's influence.

When he was demoted to 'regular baddie'- there was no real 'heavy' in the series for either Supes or Clark. To me, that was part of the problem with the series- the nice balance it had, dissipated. On top of that, the horrible amnesia/clone stuff just shoved a marginal series into the toilet- there's some interesting stuff when they realized that they screwed up & tried to make a comeback, but it was too little, too late.

[Metallo]

Apr 3, 2012 12:16:06 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Routh did a much better job impersonating Reeve than Cain ever did

Cain did a fine job impersonating a comic book convention attendee.

[ye5man]

Cain never tried, at least. He made it his own. Wasn't great, but it wasn't a rip off of another performance.

That was my point For better or worse, there's no Superman like Dean Cain's version...

It became more about appeasing Lois and making Clark a dude with no backbone who will do anything to make her happy.

Reused for Smallville, lol

[Metallo]

Apr 3, 2012 15:02:38 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Reused for Smallville, lol

At least Lois & Clark (and ABC) were merciful enough not to put us through seven freakin years of it. While Hatcher got annoying Kruek was ALWAYS annoying.

[Jor-L5150]

gerard christopher is in comepletely unfairly ggod shape and ridiculously good looking.

i'd hire him to play superman NOW. (if we didnt already have cavill or routh to do it)

[Jor-L5150]

Apr 1, 2012 10:14:01 GMT -5 Metallo said:

note gerards belt...
one of a kind he had made from the superboy days.

[jak321]

After watching the pilot of Superboy, John Hymes Newton might have worked well in L&C. Given the fact that his Clark is similar to Cain's, assertive, tough.

[Deleted]

Dr. Samuel Platt from the pilot came into the restaurant. I almost gushed but then remembered he probably doesn't even REMEMBER filming that fucking thing.