Man of Steel (2013)

[Metallo]

Dec 8, 2013 19:51:36 GMT -5 @kris said:

He didn't write it though. Surely the best person to ask is the writer?

And according to some Snyder doesn't have a say, he's a yes man who just follows orders. Can't be both.

Just because he follows orders doesn't mean he didn't present WB with an idea they liked and signed off on. So yeah it could be both. Snyder agreed on it with Goyer. Goyer wrote it but Snyder liked it too and had input.

[Jor-L5150]

Dec 8, 2013 21:24:25 GMT -5 Melv said:

I mainly dislike that kiss because of the horrible dialogue. It's the only cringeworthy moment of the film in my opinion.

Though STM has Can You Read My Mind, so no film is perfect.

THIS.
100%

[Deleted]

Yeah, I'm fine with the kiss but the dialogue IS disgusting. That's the best they could do? A take on a line from SPEED?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using proboards

[crazy_asian_man]

Yeah. What makes MOS so frustrating is that the skeleton for something good is there and most of the problems were easily fixable.

I hear you.... but then again, in looking at Goyer's history of movies he's written and looking at Snyder's movies--- neither one seems to have that great a sense of story, so just look at MOS as a big fan film, and it's more forgiveable. (At least I do)

What's frustrating about MOS isn't how it came out, so much as (for me- and I know only a third feel this way here) that SR was a superior film imo and got slammed and not nearly as much box office. I was kinda hoping that at best, MOS made the same amount- but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm just enjoying it as an eye candy movie and actually glad if MOS 2 ends up being all action and next to no drama- as that's NOT Snyder nor Goyer's strong point.

Snyder is a great mtv director- so, I just want the images to look nice and not desaturated steadicam for the JLA film (why not call it that now?). And he better not mess with the classic WW suit....

[Deleted]

Dec 8, 2013 21:24:25 GMT -5 Melv said:

I mainly dislike that kiss because of the horrible dialogue. It's the only cringeworthy moment of the film in my opinion.

Though STM has Can You Read My Mind, so no film is perfect.

I didn't like it either, but in all honesty there's more than a few bits of ham fisted dialogue in the film. As someone who enjoys the film I have to say that's not the only time I cringed.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2013 2:44:53 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Yeah. What makes MOS so frustrating is that the skeleton for something good is there and most of the problems were easily fixable.

I hear you.... but then again, in looking at Goyer's history of movies he's written and looking at Snyder's movies--- neither one seems to have that great a sense of story, so just look at MOS as a big fan film, and it's more forgiveable. (At least I do)

What's frustrating about MOS isn't how it came out, so much as (for me- and I know only a third feel this way here) that SR was a superior film imo and got slammed and not nearly as much box office. I was kinda hoping that at best, MOS made the same amount- but it doesn't matter at this point. I'm just enjoying it as an eye candy movie and actually glad if MOS 2 ends up being all action and next to no drama- as that's NOT Snyder nor Goyer's strong point.

Snyder is a great mtv director- so, I just want the images to look nice and not desaturated steadicam for the JLA film (why not call it that now?). And he better not mess with the classic WW suit....

Singer didn't exactly cover himself in glory with SR though did he? especially with the quality of performance on screen!

[EnriqueH]

I don't think anybody has claimed Singer covered himself with glory, have they?

Or is this the beginning of another Reeve Only People type fantasy?

[Deleted]

away and take a fuck to yourself Bilbo

[EnriqueH]

Translation: you're right as usual, E.

[Jor-L5150]

Dec 8, 2013 20:45:30 GMT -5 @bamabrad said:

They're still playing tonsil hockey among death and destruction, no matter what level of relationship is in the different presentations.

Exxxaaaaaactly.

[eccentricbeing]

Dec 9, 2013 1:49:33 GMT -5 @ucfkevin said:

Yeah, I'm fine with the kiss but the dialogue IS disgusting. That's the best they could do? A take on a line from SPEED?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using proboards

This.

[crazy_asian_man]

Singer didn't exactly cover himself in glory with SR though did he? especially with the quality of performance on screen!

I love SR, but I'll grant that there are a few times where Routh's line readings feel a bit odd- I do think that Singer liked Routh's presence to carry the film, and adjusted the film towards Routh's level of experience.
(I still feel he would have been better with a sequel- He was great in a couple of bit roles on "Chuck" and "Scott Pilgrim", but I think he's far easier to take onscreen than Keanu, who seems to have the same level of acting experience decades later).

Reeve was in many ways way overqualified it seems to play Superman when he got the role (and some of the interviews that have come out decades later on youtube make it seemed like he knew and felt he was)- with all his theatre training- and Cavill had more experience than Routh in working on the Tudors, though I haven't checked what else he had done to the point before he got the role.

However- to me- (and I know right off the bat through the poll that it's not a majority opinion on the forum)- there were only a few instances where I raised an eyebrow or felt outright: 'I don't think this quite works' (the peformance by Routh when he realizes that the kid is his son at the end) or 'I wish that they didn't make that choice' (ie. Lex's real estate motivation, fuzzy continuity/backstory).... but more scenes than not really worked for me.

With MOS- most here prefer it and feel that it works better, so it is what it is.
I do get suprised when I'm looking at something and someone else sees something completely different, but that's life- people are going to either fight or just step back and respect that it's the odd thing about people, I've been treated pretty good even though my opinions have been pretty different.

I'm looking forward to seeing if WB's plan to (what it looks like) make the Superman movies 'the Brave and Bold' actually works in the end.... but it's a pity that Green Lantern just (deservedly) tanked at the box office- in some ways WB did right to really go for doing an origin story on the bigscreen budget-wise.

[ye5man]

Singer clearly played it too safe with Routh. If SR was the first Superman film it would have been more evident. Routh didn't get to do or say much; most of the time he looked gormlessly at the events around him.

If you do a Superman film, at least make him the leader.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Singer clearly played it too safe with Routh. If SR was the first Superman film it would have been more evident. Routh didn't get to do or say much; most of the time he looked gormlessly at the events around him.

If you do a Superman film, at least make him the leader.

Now there's a word you don't see everyday.

[crazy_asian_man]

Dec 9, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Singer clearly played it too safe with Routh. If SR was the first Superman film it would have been more evident. Routh didn't get to do or say much; most of the time he looked gormlessly at the events around him.

If you do a Superman film, at least make him the leader.

While I think Routh was a great presence to evoke Reeve, I admit I did feel he didn't seem that comfortable projecting authority in bits where he I thought he could have/should have. His Clark, though, I thought was perfect.
If there was sequel, I think he would have had a chance to be better.

[Metallo]

Dec 9, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Singer clearly played it too safe with Routh. If SR was the first Superman film it would have been more evident. Routh didn't get to do or say much; most of the time he looked gormlessly at the events around him.

If you do a Superman film, at least make him the leader.

Yeah...but I wonder what the excuse was for doing the same with Cavill?

[ye5man]

While I think Routh was a great presence to evoke Reeve

Which is a a major problem before anything is shot.


What was so great about his CK? That he was nerdish? Unfortunately his Superman lacked any real character so there was zero contrast to play off.

[SupermanUF]

Dec 9, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -5 ye5man said:

Singer clearly played it too safe with Routh. If SR was the first Superman film it would have been more evident. Routh didn't get to do or say much; most of the time he looked gormanly at the events around him.

[crazy_asian_man]

Dec 10, 2013 4:43:16 GMT -5 ye5man said:

While I think Routh was a great presence to evoke Reeve

Which is a a major problem before anything is shot.


What was so great about his CK? That he was nerdish? Unfortunately his Superman lacked any real character so there was zero contrast to play off.

I'm not sure why you feel Routh's resemblance to Reeve as a problem.... Unless you mean triggering comparisons because of it?
(If that's the case, then I get it...)


Reeve's CK - Reeve has said that he wasn't sure how to play him, but was inspired by a performance in "Bringing Up Baby" - I believe was the movie.

I wasn't happy with that take initially that Clark was portrayed as SUCH a goof in STM- but it kind of fits, given the intentional different flavors/tones of STM-
I went with it.

Seeing that performance 'married/blended' with Singer's update- I felt like Routh/Singe's Clark wasn't as broad as Reeve/Donner's Clark- and it just felt more 'real' to me,
and Routh just seemed far more natural playing Clark than Superman.

I think I've mentioned it before: I prefer Reeve's Superman to Routh's, and Routh's Clark to Reeves.

Cavill feels like a different Superman, (which I know was always the point) but he does (to my suprise) work very well.

To me, FINDING anyone who fits the physical requirements of Superman... let alone the physical requirements to match Reeve.... and be able to act has to be a small pool of talent
to pick from.

Routh I think did great overall. But, I still find spots that I'm not thrlled with.
(Then again, there are spots in the Superman movies where I feel Reeve as Superman went a touch over the top)

But- that's my impression. I am really bummed even now that we aren't getting one more Routh Superman film.

[Shane]

[SupermanUF]

Dec 10, 2013 15:06:20 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I am really bummed even now that we aren't getting one more Routh Superman film.

[Deleted]

Dec 9, 2013 13:02:24 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Singer didn't exactly cover himself in glory with SR though did he? especially with the quality of performance on screen!

I love SR, but I'll grant that there are a few times where Routh's line readings feel a bit odd- I do think that Singer liked Routh's presence to carry the film, and adjusted the film towards Routh's level of experience.
(I still feel he would have been better with a sequel- He was great in a couple of bit roles on "Chuck" and "Scott Pilgrim", but I think he's far easier to take onscreen than Keanu, who seems to have the same level of acting experience decades later).

Reeve was in many ways way overqualified it seems to play Superman when he got the role (and some of the interviews that have come out decades later on youtube make it seemed like he knew and felt he was)- with all his theatre training- and Cavill had more experience than Routh in working on the Tudors, though I haven't checked what else he had done to the point before he got the role.

However- to me- (and I know right off the bat through the poll that it's not a majority opinion on the forum)- there were only a few instances where I raised an eyebrow or felt outright: 'I don't think this quite works' (the peformance by Routh when he realizes that the kid is his son at the end) or 'I wish that they didn't make that choice' (ie. Lex's real estate motivation, fuzzy continuity/backstory).... but more scenes than not really worked for me.

With MOS- most here prefer it and feel that it works better, so it is what it is.
I do get suprised when I'm looking at something and someone else sees something completely different, but that's life- people are going to either fight or just step back and respect that it's the odd thing about people, I've been treated pretty good even though my opinions have been pretty different.

I'm looking forward to seeing if WB's plan to (what it looks like) make the Superman movies 'the Brave and Bold' actually works in the end.... but it's a pity that Green Lantern just (deservedly) tanked at the box office- in some ways WB did right to really go for doing an origin story on the bigscreen budget-wise.

Routh isn't even the big problem. He does alright.

I'm just confused with the jibes at Snyder with regards to performance when MOS is surely better acted than SR? Bosworth alone brings SR right down! Even Spacey didn't really do it for me and he's a great actor.


Regarding Cavill, I was really looking forward to seeing him do the secret identity thing but god knows how much time he'll actually get to do that with WB shoehorning other 'heroes' in. Just one of the reasons I'm disappointed with the fast tracking of JL.

[crazy_asian_man]

Dec 10, 2013 16:47:12 GMT -5 @kris said:

Dec 9, 2013 13:02:24 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

I love SR, but I'll grant that there are a few times where Routh's line readings feel a bit odd- I do think that Singer liked Routh's presence to carry the film, and adjusted the film towards Routh's level of experience.
(I still feel he would have been better with a sequel- He was great in a couple of bit roles on "Chuck" and "Scott Pilgrim", but I think he's far easier to take onscreen than Keanu, who seems to have the same level of acting experience decades later).

Reeve was in many ways way overqualified it seems to play Superman when he got the role (and some of the interviews that have come out decades later on youtube make it seemed like he knew and felt he was)- with all his theatre training- and Cavill had more experience than Routh in working on the Tudors, though I haven't checked what else he had done to the point before he got the role.

However- to me- (and I know right off the bat through the poll that it's not a majority opinion on the forum)- there were only a few instances where I raised an eyebrow or felt outright: 'I don't think this quite works' (the peformance by Routh when he realizes that the kid is his son at the end) or 'I wish that they didn't make that choice' (ie. Lex's real estate motivation, fuzzy continuity/backstory).... but more scenes than not really worked for me.

With MOS- most here prefer it and feel that it works better, so it is what it is.
I do get suprised when I'm looking at something and someone else sees something completely different, but that's life- people are going to either fight or just step back and respect that it's the odd thing about people, I've been treated pretty good even though my opinions have been pretty different.

I'm looking forward to seeing if WB's plan to (what it looks like) make the Superman movies 'the Brave and Bold' actually works in the end.... but it's a pity that Green Lantern just (deservedly) tanked at the box office- in some ways WB did right to really go for doing an origin story on the bigscreen budget-wise.

Routh isn't even the big problem. He does alright.

I'm just confused with the jibes at Snyder with regards to performance when MOS is surely better acted than SR? Bosworth alone brings SR right down! Even Spacey didn't really do it for me and he's a great actor.


Regarding Cavill, I was really looking forward to seeing him do the secret identity thing but god knows how much time he'll actually get to do that with WB shoehorning other 'heroes' in. Just one of the reasons I'm disappointed with the fast tracking of JL.

The ACTORS cast are GREAT in MOS.... and some scenes are fine to me performance-wise, but mostly not, to me. While there's a couple of bits with Routh that I had trouble with in SR, it's nowhere near the amount of scenes in MOS to me that felt unnatural in either:
(1) how they were staged/scripted, that seem strange or 'off' -or- (2) how they were paced or how the actors react to one another, with what they're saying.

This is EXACTLY how I felt with Watchmen's mostly great cast and resulting stilted scenes.... which is why I feel like the blame goes to Snyder. Believe me, I WANT/WANTED MOS to thrill me as much as its trailer did. I just didn't feel it, though I know others did.

About SR's cast:

I've mentioned some weak spots with Routh, but Bosworth gets a lot of attacks here as being worthless as Lois, but I really thought she was good (not great) in SR. I believed her, but (just like how Perry White was cast) I didn't think that she was the best of all available choices... but good enough, and to me, far better choice than Amy Adams' take on it.

Anyhow.... it's not battling. I believe the folks here that genuinely feel moved by MOS and the performances, and I respect that difference of opinion. I thought some parts worked fine, but too many not to really fall head over heels for MOS.

Still like it, but I really do (in my mind) need to look at it as a fan film/ alternate universe Superman film to enjoy it.

[ye5man]

Perry White being underplayed in SR was a big disappointment. Did some think it was deliberate to avoid comparison with Daily Bugle editor (Jonah James?) in the then popular Spidey flicks?

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2013 4:03:45 GMT -5 crazy_asian_man said:

Dec 10, 2013 16:47:12 GMT -5 @kris said:

Routh isn't even the big problem. He does alright.

I'm just confused with the jibes at Snyder with regards to performance when MOS is surely better acted than SR? Bosworth alone brings SR right down! Even Spacey didn't really do it for me and he's a great actor.


Regarding Cavill, I was really looking forward to seeing him do the secret identity thing but god knows how much time he'll actually get to do that with WB shoehorning other 'heroes' in. Just one of the reasons I'm disappointed with the fast tracking of JL.

The ACTORS cast are GREAT in MOS.... and some scenes are fine to me performance-wise, but mostly not, to me. While there's a couple of bits with Routh that I had trouble with in SR, it's nowhere near the amount of scenes in MOS to me that felt unnatural in either:
(1) how they were staged/scripted, that seem strange or 'off' -or- (2) how they were paced or how the actors react to one another, with what they're saying.

This is EXACTLY how I felt with Watchmen's mostly great cast and resulting stilted scenes.... which is why I feel like the blame goes to Snyder. Believe me, I WANT/WANTED MOS to thrill me as much as its trailer did. I just didn't feel it, though I know others did.

About SR's cast:

I've mentioned some weak spots with Routh, but Bosworth gets a lot of attacks here as being worthless as Lois, but I really thought she was good (not great) in SR. I believed her, but (just like how Perry White was cast) I didn't think that she was the best of all available choices... but good enough, and to me, far better choice than Amy Adams' take on it.

Anyhow.... it's not battling. I believe the folks here that genuinely feel moved by MOS and the performances, and I respect that difference of opinion. I thought some parts worked fine, but too many not to really fall head over heels for MOS.

Still like it, but I really do (in my mind) need to look at it as a fan film/ alternate universe Superman film to enjoy it.

To be honest dude I smell bullshit with that one.

It's two lead parts are really fucking weak so it just doesn't make sense to gloss over that so much whilst nit picking Snyder on MOS. Watchmen is fine, I think when a director gets a reputation it affects peoples judgement. Example Tarantino could release practically any old shit and people would say its genius.

Russ Perry was shit too, again good actor in Frank Langellla, just didn't like that take on him atall. For what it's worth Lane Smith is actually my favourite Perry.